Anyone else disappointed how they handled the GTA IV characters?

[Pink Pineapple]

Plus, Rockstar already said that the C ending is canon.

 

 

They never said that.

 

 

 

GTAV Story Mode Updates. For those ready to jump back into the story of Grand Theft Auto V, we have big plans for substantial additions in 2014 continuing Michael, Franklin and Trevor's action, mayhem and unexpected adventures in Southern San Andreas.

 

That was the added content to the current gen versions - the murder mystery, peyote plants, monkey mosaics, and stock car races. Just like the quote says, they were story mode updates. They did mention we'd get some DLC, but nothing ever happened with that and it doesn't mean ending C is canon. The DLC could be a prequel or a zombie thing or whatever.

 

Endings A and B and Johnny's scene are all terrible and no GTA fan should be happy with any of them because all 3 feel forced and out of character. Poor writing like that is bad for the series.

[ChiroVette]

Man, as I play V now on the PC, and see how freaking gorgeous everything is on the platform, AND am lavishing in the story, I have to say again that Rockstar really made huge leaps from Snore to V. The story is so much more fun, satisfying, better written, and paced ingeniously. I give Dan Houser a lot of credit and kudos for his work on this game, as well as how he handled the cameos of the barely-worth-mentioning Snore characters.

 

 

 

Plus, Rockstar already said that the C ending is canon.

 

 

They never said that.

 

 

 

Yes they did. This says it. Look at the underlined parts:

 

GTAV Story Mode Updates. For those ready to jump back into the story of Grand Theft Auto V, we have big plans for substantial additions in 2014 continuing Michael, Franklin and Trevor's action, mayhem and unexpected adventures in Southern San Andreas.

 

 

That statement alone proves that Rockstar considers the C ending Canon.

[Pedinhuh]

Man, as I play V now on the PC, and see how freaking gorgeous everything is on the platform, AND am lavishing in the story, I have to say again that Rockstar really made huge leaps from Snore to V. The story is so much more fun, satisfying, better written, and paced ingeniously. I give Dan Houser a lot of credit and kudos for his work on this game, as well as how he handled the cameos of the barely-worth-mentioning Snore characters.

 

 

 

Plus, Rockstar already said that the C ending is canon.

 

 

They never said that.

 

 

 

Yes they did. This says it. Look at the underlined parts:

 

GTAV Story Mode Updates. For those ready to jump back into the story of Grand Theft Auto V, we have big plans for substantial additions in 2014 continuing Michael, Franklin and Trevor's action, mayhem and unexpected adventures in Southern San Andreas.

 

 

That statement alone proves that Rockstar considers the C ending Canon.

...In 2014.

 

Take a look at this article, from 2015:

 

https://www.vg247.com/2015/05/19/whats-going-on-with-gta-5s-story-dlc/

 

"During last night’s call to investors, Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick was asked if there’s anything the publisher could announce regarding the story-based DLC for GTA 5. After all, Rockstar has been teasing it since all the way back in 2013.

Shawn Fonteno, the actor who played Franklin even let slip that he’s been working on story content for the game. So when Zelnick said he doesn’t remember announcing such a thing, eyebrows were raised everywhere.

“No, we haven’t discussed any story-based downloadable content. We did talk about the Heists and they’ve been released,” said Zelnick when asked by an analyst to comment on the game’s story DLC. “But I am correct in remembering that you had talked about that around the launch of the game?” pressed the analyst.

To which the Take-Two CEO replied, “Uhh, we have different recollections.”

Following the call, a Take-Two representative issued a statement to Gamespot. “Strauss misspoke during today’s call,” reads the statement.

“As over a year ago Rockstar Games had said that they were exploring story mode content for Grand Theft Auto V; however, no further information has been released since. As always, we leave it to Rockstar Games to share information about their games when they’re ready.”

Staying silent about content in development is not unusual for Rockstar, but it’s very bizarre how the CEO couldn’t remember such a crucial announcement about his company’s biggest game. The statement that followed didn’t outright confirm the DLC’s existence either, only that Rockstar had teased it prior."

 

Nothing has been confirmed yet, therefore you cannot say which ending is cannon.

Edited February 29, 2016 by pedinhuh

[Pink Pineapple]

 

That statement alone proves that Rockstar considers the C ending Canon.

 

No. You're wrong.

 

We already got that update.

 

We did continue Michael, Franklin and Trevor's action, mayhem and unexpected adventures in Southern San Andreas with the murder mystery, peyote plants, monkey mosaics, and stock car races.

 

That had nothing to do with which ending was canon. It was just some stuff added to story mode.

[Sonny_Black]

Im not even sure If I have finished TLAD, I cant remember so I will say no and Im also not a huge fan of that extension; so Johnny's death doesn't really bother me (same for Terry and Clay) BUT when I see that scene I was like; "wow that is strange because I know that character, yeah thats the main character of TLAD !!" so I still didnt like this because it feel weird and bad especially because that scene was here to introduced Trevor wich I really didnt like and the whole thing is like "f*ck OFF GTA 4 TLAD !!" , some of you guys said "He gave up on Ashley, never cared for drugs and The Lost was disbanded." For Terry and Clay "In TLAD they were among the most badass members of The Lost MC,they were not afraid of anyone (AOD,the mob,the cops...) but in GTA 5 they ran away from Trevor like little bitches instead of putting up a fight"

 

To that yeah I will say that these GTA IV's characters was very bad handled in GTA V and plus that the way they were handled doesnt make any sense! But again thats the not thing who reallyy bother me but still.

 

I dont really care for the rest of the cameos, the only one who disappointed me is Packie, I love that guy and yeah its cool to see him in a random events and to choose him for the heist but I would have loved to see more of him, like a lot more!

Edited February 29, 2016 by shqrk

[ChiroVette]

 

 

That statement alone proves that Rockstar considers the C ending Canon.

 

No. You're wrong.

 

We already got that update.

 

We did continue Michael, Franklin and Trevor's action, mayhem and unexpected adventures in Southern San Andreas with the murder mystery, peyote plants, monkey mosaics, and stock car races.

 

That had nothing to do with which ending was canon. It was just some stuff added to story mode.

 

 

We are obviously interpreting Rockstar's statement differently, but I am not coming out of left field with my interpretation.

 

When Rockstar advertised:

 

"For those ready to jump back into the story of Grand Theft Auto V, we have big plans for substantial additions in 2014 continuing Michael, Franklin and Trevor's action, mayhem and unexpected adventures in Southern San Andreas."

 

That seems very clear that the intent was MORE STORY for the three protagonists, not lol a garage, hangar, and helipad each. Clearly the intent of that bit of propaganda was meant to foreshadow some "substantial additions" in 2014 (even though they never came) and that this content would "continue the story of Michael, Franklin, and Trevor." I seriously doubt that if the intent was just the paltry weapons and garages we got that they would have promised "big plans" or "substantial additions" or, most illustrative, "continuing the action." Remember also that Rockstar did originally promise SP DLC, ala story etc., that we also never got yet.

 

We may still get this content, by the way. I am hoping we do. But the hope is waning as time goes on.

[TommyMontana]

The only character from IV who as a reasonable life in V is Karen,she get up in the FIB,no one wants or have tryed kill her in the V period,the same thing did not happen with any other,perhaps Luis Lopez and Gay Tony (with Yusuf as partner) may have done well in LC. Maybe Niko is alive and quietly,taking care of Roman's child.

[Kauf Me]

I didn't know who Johnny was either when I first played. Never played TLAD. I can tell you though that his death shocked and disgusted me, and I felt a certain revulsion for having to suddenly play this character. I didn't want to...but only at first. Then I realized how fascinating Trevor is and how fun and bizarre it can be to play him. No one will ever forget his character.

 

I think the whole point of that was to make you feel how I felt. They wanted to shock and challenge you by making you play this psychopathic character who is also amazingly funny and interesting.

 

Was it the best idea? Maybe not but it works. I got Lester's Niko reference and recognized Packie as well but I always hated Packie. He was such a scumbag to his family. But look how Michael's kids react when they see "Uncle Trevor". I found it sort of endearing.

[ChiroVette]

I didn't know who Johnny was either when I first played. Never played TLAD. I can tell you though that his death shocked and disgusted me, and I felt a certain revulsion for having to suddenly play this character. I didn't want to...but only at first. Then I realized how fascinating Trevor is and how fun and bizarre it can be to play him. No one will ever forget his character.

 

I think the whole point of that was to make you feel how I felt. They wanted to shock and challenge you by making you play this psychopathic character who is also amazingly funny and interesting.

 

Was it the best idea? Maybe not but it works. I got Lester's Niko reference and recognized Packie as well but I always hated Packie. He was such a scumbag to his family. But look how Michael's kids react when they see "Uncle Trevor". I found it sort of endearing.

 

It is very endearing. Tracey especially reacted very affectionately to him, though admittedly Amanda was terrified of having him back in their lives. Even Jimmy likes "Uncle Trevor." Love that whole interaction, and as much of a psycho as he is, Trevor still has a profound sense of loyalty to Michael's kids. For all his psychopathy, he went ballistic at the thought of Tracey, who he remembers as a baby, being exploited in Fame Or Shame.

 

Trevor is a character that, while he is batsh*t crazy, has a powerful sense morality and ethics within his own framework for reality. That's one of the things that makes Trevor work so well. No, you wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley or have a person like that in your actual life. But there is more to him than what many people take from the V experience. Most people see nothing but a stark, raving loon. But yet, he is actually complex, and while his moral code is a little twisted and off the rails, he adheres to that code with an almost religious zealotry. He has no propensity toward nor any tolerance for hypocrisy.

 

This is what prevents the Trevor character from being nothing but a transparently preposterous figure. Because even in the most insane and crazy way, its fairly easy to locate the man's humanity.

Edited February 29, 2016 by ChiroVette

[Osho]

Rockstar has cleverly used Johnny for killing two birds with one stone.

On one hand to shock the players about his personality to introduce us to his insanity with the ( unfortunately.. lol ) death of Johnny, while on the other hand, placing an event to trigger the drug war on Trevor's part, too, to expand his meth business in the territory under the control of Lost MC, and thus with the unexpected death of Johnny, and "knowing that Johnny's gang will be outraged over its leader's brutal murder, Trevor decides to wipe out The Lost and their meth business from Blaine County before they have a chance to exact revenge"

[ChiroVette]

Rockstar has cleverly used Johnny for killing two birds with one stone.

On one hand to shock the players about his personality to introduce us to his insanity with the ( unfortunately.. lol ) death of Johnny, while on the other hand, placing an event to trigger the drug war on Trevor's part, too, to expand his meth business in the territory under the control of Lost MC, and thus with the unexpected death of Johnny, and "knowing that Johnny's gang will be outraged over its leader's brutal murder, Trevor decides to wipe out The Lost and their meth business from Blaine County before they have a chance to exact revenge"

 

Absolutely!

 

This game has layers of subtext upon subtext. What a GREAT story Dan Houser's crew tells in V! Hey, with any luck, GTA VI's style will lean even more heavily toward San Andreas than V did.

[Lester-The-Molester]

Rockstar has cleverly used Johnny for killing two birds with one stone.

On one hand to shock the players about his personality to introduce us to his insanity with the ( unfortunately.. lol ) death of Johnny, while on the other hand, placing an event to trigger the drug war on Trevor's part, too, to expand his meth business in the territory under the control of Lost MC, and thus with the unexpected death of Johnny, and "knowing that Johnny's gang will be outraged over its leader's brutal murder, Trevor decides to wipe out The Lost and their meth business from Blaine County before they have a chance to exact revenge"

I really liked this part. It was very interesting. Also, since he wanted to expand his business to include gun trafficking too, he decides to put the Aztecas out of business by paying a visit to Ortega since they controlled the guns.

[Pink Pineapple]

Rockstar has cleverly used Johnny for killing two birds with one stone.

 

There was nothing clever about it. It was cheap and easy.

 

That's like saying endings A and B were clever because Franklin did things that were unexpected and you didn't see coming. OMG BRILLIANT!!!

[ChiroVette]

 

Rockstar has cleverly used Johnny for killing two birds with one stone.

 

There was nothing clever about it. It was cheap and easy.

 

That's like saying endings A and B were clever because Franklin did things that were unexpected and you didn't see coming. OMG BRILLIANT!!!

 

 

It was very clever AND illustrated what a psychopath Trevor is, while setting the stage for abolishing The Lost and the Aztecas as viable competition to his desert drug enterprise.

[Zello]

 

 

That statement alone proves that Rockstar considers the C ending Canon.

No. You're wrong.

 

We already got that update.

 

We did continue Michael, Franklin and Trevor's action, mayhem and unexpected adventures in Southern San Andreas with the murder mystery, peyote plants, monkey mosaics, and stock car races.

 

That had nothing to do with which ending was canon. It was just some stuff added to story mode.

I've been saying that for years man. R* said story mode updates and those updates have been released the murder mystery, monkey mosaics, peyote plants, and stock car races. But people here can't read and that's why we have a 200+ page pointless thread on the supposed SP DLC that doesn't exist.

[DangerZ0neX]

 

 

Rockstar has cleverly used Johnny for killing two birds with one stone.

There was nothing clever about it. It was cheap and easy.

 

That's like saying endings A and B were clever because Franklin did things that were unexpected and you didn't see coming. OMG BRILLIANT!!!

 

It was very clever AND illustrated what a psychopath Trevor is, while setting the stage for abolishing The Lost and the Aztecas as viable competition to his desert drug enterprise.

I always forget the Aztecas exist outside of the TPI mission with Tao, because honestly we have never gotten any implications on how much of a threat they are to Trevor's business.

 

And like many others said, the Lost really feel like last minute additions, for me it felt like that the Angels of Death were supposed to be the ones killed but nope, it is the Lost for butchering the lore and cheap shock value.

[Pink Pineapple]

 

It was very clever AND illustrated what a psychopath Trevor is, while setting the stage for abolishing The Lost and the Aztecas as viable competition to his desert drug enterprise.

 

 

It might have done what you said, but it wasn't clever.

 

Why did Johnny, Terry, Clay, and Ashley move to SA after the events of TLAD?

 

Uh, just because.

 

Why are there so many other members of The Lost there? Weren't The Angels of Death supposed to have a big presence in SA? Why wasn't Trevor battling against them instead of The Lost?

 

Uh, just because.

 

Johnny stormed a prison with guns blazing and meth addiction makes a person more violent. So, why did he act like a wimp in the Trevor scene when that goes against everything we know about him?

 

Uh, just because.

 

Where's the clever part?

[SmileyBandito]

Huh, never really thought about it that way. That's true. You raise some good points.

 

Trevor's a meth addict too, why does he get to be a near-invincible rage-feuled pyscho? Why isn't he a brittle tweaker like the rest of them? Where's the contrast between him just being a psychopath and him being so high on drugs he goes balls-to-the-wall crazy?

 

I'm overanalyzing this and I'm not being too serious, but I still dislike how Rockstar chose to make Trevor a user.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Vinewood Villain

[ChiroVette]

Responding to both Pink Pineapple and DangerZOneX, I think it was very clever. Or at least clever enough for a subplot in a great game story. Look, I am not going to make a crack now about K's face and Trevor's shoe, no matter how tempting it is, but I think it is reasonable that the character had a slow, steady 5 year decline in the years following his exploits in LC.

 

As for why he acted like such a wimp, I think a huge part of it was his drug-addled brain from all the meth.

 

Look, you can gloss over the pertinent details with as much dismissive pessimism as you please by making a two word statement like "Just because," but that isn't fact. You find Trevor in the desert, and it is clear that he had some sort of a tenuous, long term relationship with both the Aztecas and The Lost, and that mission, coming on the heels of the Jewel Store Heist, was the result of several factors:

 

1. Trevor was in a blind rage after seeing a security guard who was at the scene of the heist saying a line from an old movie that was more or less Michael's trademark. This was the impetus for him getting all fired up.

 

2. So, at that moment, a desire to wipe out both the biker gang and the Mexican gang came to a head, probably fueled by the aforementioned rage, and he decided to "do now" what he had probably been wanting to do for a long time anyway.

 

That's the clever part.

 

It works very well, and is an excellently structured and finely implemented storyline arc that begins Trevor's in-game quest to create some psychotic desert monopoly in Trevor Phillips Industries. Makes perfect sense to me!

 

Huh, never really thought about it that way. That's true. You raise some good points.

Trevor's a meth addict too, why does he get to be a near-invincible rage-feuled pyscho? Why isn't he a brittle tweaker like the rest of them? Where's the contrast between him just being a psychopath and him being so high on drugs he goes balls-to-the-wall crazy?

 

Because Trevor is NOT shown to be an addict. The expository of him in the game is that he is a seller/dealer and has cook labs. But if he uses meth at all, which I believe he does but am not sure, then he follows the old dealer rule of not smoking your own stash.

 

 

 

 

That statement alone proves that Rockstar considers the C ending Canon.

No. You're wrong.

We already got that update.

We did continue Michael, Franklin and Trevor's action, mayhem and unexpected adventures in Southern San Andreas with the murder mystery, peyote plants, monkey mosaics, and stock car races.

That had nothing to do with which ending was canon. It was just some stuff added to story mode.

I've been saying that for years man. R* said story mode updates and those updates have been released the murder mystery, monkey mosaics, peyote plants, and stock car races. But people here can't read and that's why we have a 200+ page pointless thread on the supposed SP DLC that doesn't exist.

 

 

Its not pointless. People want DLC and are speculating on whether or not its coming. Seems reasonable to me, despite the fact that the possibility certainly seems remote at this point in the proceedings.

Edited February 29, 2016 by ChiroVette

[SmileyBandito]

Yeah, I was mostly joking about that. He's not an addict, you're right. But he does occasionally smoke meth. Sometimes if you switch to him he'll be smoking in his trailer. He also tells Jimmy to smoke meth instead of weed.

 

Great advice, Uncle T!

Edited February 29, 2016 by Vinewood Villain

[ChiroVette]

Yeah, I was mostly joking about that. He's not an addict, you're right. But he does occasionally smoke meth. Sometimes if you switch to him he'll be smoking in his trailer. He also tells Jimmy to smoke meth instead of weed.

 

Great advice, Uncle T!

 

lol That's right, I forgot about all that.

[Honker1944]

@Pink Pieapple

You know the biggest idiot in group of idiots looks like wise-guy for them. I don't see how T become Tony Montana while Johny became V version of Big Bear.

AND I KNOW THAT V STORY IS BRILLIANT STOP TYPING THAT!!!

[Pink Pineapple]

I've been saying that for years man. R* said story mode updates and those updates have been released the murder mystery, monkey mosaics, peyote plants, and stock car races. But people here can't read and that's why we have a 200+ page pointless thread on the supposed SP DLC that doesn't exist.

 

 

I see them as 2 different things. The story mode update is the added content to the current gen versions. That wasn't DLC though, so I believe the "very exciting Story Mode DLC" is an entirely different thing.

[ChiroVette]

 

I've been saying that for years man. R* said story mode updates and those updates have been released the murder mystery, monkey mosaics, peyote plants, and stock car races. But people here can't read and that's why we have a 200+ page pointless thread on the supposed SP DLC that doesn't exist.

 

 

I see them as 2 different things. The story mode update is the added content to the current gen versions. That wasn't DLC though, so I believe the "very exciting Story Mode DLC" is an entirely different thing.

 

 

As do I. I believe Rockstar absolutely intended to add storyline DLC to SP, but either decided against it entirely or haven't gotten around to it yet. Unfortunately, the more time goes by, the more I believe the former over the latter.

[Maibatsu545]

Trevor killing Johnny is just a cheap shock value moment, doesn't have any depth to it anymore than "lol we thought this would be funnie to put in da game." Infact, I'd actually call it "Schlock Value" which coincidentally would be a perfect genre to categorize V's story.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Maibatsu545

[Osho]

 

Rockstar has cleverly used Johnny for killing two birds with one stone.

02

There was nothing clever about it. It was cheap and easy.02

02

That's like saying endings A and B were clever because Franklin did things that were unexpected and you didn't see coming. OMG BRILLIANT!!!02

The example you used is inappropriate for comparing the events that unfold in acts of momentary changes, and that's the 'cleverly' placed point on part of Rockstar in case of Trevor early in the game [ for Trevor's introduction ].

There's a long gap between the events in your example and clearly has that momentary disconnect unlike seen in case of the events unfolded in the moments of one mission.

Rockstar could have easily used Johnny for a cheap act of showing Trevor's insanity, but instead they chose to tie it with the story, the reactionary response Trevor gives Johnny, which as ChiroVitte rightly explained it, "at that moment, a desire to wipe out both the biker gang and the Mexican gang came to a head, probably fueled by the aforementioned rage, and he decided to "do now" what he had probably been wanting to do for a long time anyway. That's the clever part."

It also further ties it into the theme of "pursuit of the almighty dollar" for Trevor in expanding his meth business by using the opportunity that Johnny's death provided.

Its all nicely done with unexpected chain of events.

[Pink Pineapple]

 

acts of momentary changes...

that momentary disconnect ...

in the moments of one mission.

 

momentarily this and momentarily that in the moments of the moment

 

 

 

Rockstar could have easily used Johnny for a cheap act of showing Trevor's insanity

 

They did.

 

 

 

but instead they chose to tie it with the story, the reactionary response Trevor gives Johnny, which as ChiroVitte rightly explained it, "at that moment, a desire to wipe out both the biker gang and the Mexican gang came to a head, probably fueled by the aforementioned rage, and he decided to "do now" what he had probably been wanting to do for a long time anyway. That's the clever part."

 

There's nothing clever about that. It's just average story telling. A guy kills a member of a group and then decides to go on a preemptive strike against the others.

 

It becomes below average story telling when you realize all of the unlikely events that had to take place for whatever reason to get Johnny and The Lost in SA.

 

If there was a good reason for Johnny to be there other than "because stuff happens and things change and it's, uh, possible I guess", then they could have maybe made it clever.

[Osho]

Nope. Its not average story telling.

They cleverly chose the death of Johnny simply for making the introduction to Trevor intentionally disturbing to the players and it worked, in making players hate Trevor more instead of creating a more likeable first impression for Trevor's introduction, unlike what follows later in the narrative, when Trevor gradually starts to grow on the players, in spite of at that uncomfortable intro. As they experience the story further with him they feel much at home in enjoying his character from gameplay standpoint despite his behavior with every passing mission.

Simple as that.

Its a clever way to introduce the players with his personality.

From the narrative angle, I and ChiroVette have made it clear. Its not just a cheap shot at simply using it for mere shock value.

[donnits]

I'd wager 80% of people didn't even know who Johnny was when Trevor stomped him out, so making Trevor's first impression "disturbing" works in the same way as it would if he killed an AoD member. It's a monstrous stomping to the point of getting brains on your shoe. Making that Johnny's brains doesn't matter to 80% (probably much more than that tbh), and to the minority who played TLAD going into GTA V only ruins their experience. Let's just keep in mind it makes no sense to even bring The Lost to San Andreas, since the AoD have already been stated to originate from there and The Lost basically fell apart at the end of TLAD. So not only was Johnny ruined for shock value, so was Terry and Clay. I honestly don't care about this anymore, but saying these characters weren't just killed off to shock people is pretty much wrong at this point (those who didn't know Johnny got a vicious and gory kill to shock them, those who did know him were thrown under the bus, essentially). As for ULP's character, I'm alright with him dying like he did (or didn't), but it's kinda confusing why a desk agent is on the front lines. Yet another case of those who knew him getting thrown under the bus.

 

As for Karen, I'm completely fine with how she was portrayed in V. I can perfectly see her acting that way after IV. Not much else to say.

 

_

 

Packie should have just been an Easter egg. He really brings nothing other than generic dialogue about his time in GTA IV. None of his rowdy personality is present at all. Also, why is a made man in one of Liberty City's most powerful crime families an agent to some crappy actor? Like, not even having his own posse, just him and some goon? I'm talking about Rocco. That was also pretty dumb.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Donut

[CaptainBicycle]

@Osho

 

It's not a question of why they did it but one of how. Obviously Johnny's death leads into the plot. But Johnny's death contradicts the plot of TLaD, as in, the Johnny from TLaD would not become the one in V. As such, no matter how well tied it is into the story, it's not clever because it simply couldn't have happened given what we know about thw character.