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Quinn_flower

Dear r* (regarding overall female clothing choices)

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ghostsoap01

I wonder if they could give us certain items npc's wear. I mean specifically npc's who share the same model as a player model. For example: Bryony's shirt and jeans, Ms. Baker's suit jacket, shirt and pendant, and Wendy's high-waist shorts and tank top.

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Commander S

I'm still amazed they went to the trouble of coming up with all-new body paint and other items for the nightclub podium dancers (who are literally just player character models, right down to the faces), and then didn't add them as customisation options at the tattoo parlour or wherever. They could have charged $200k like for some of the recent outfits, too - that's R* leaving money on the table, right there. :dontgetit:

 

But yeah, it shouldn't be all that difficult to tweak stuff for NPCs that use the same basic underlying assets - after all, stuff like the male leather jackets already do that, because they were originally designed for Trevor in single-player.

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SlammerRPM

We really need a wide range of nightclub wear. Not to mention underwear, socks, shorts. And specially swimsuits. Everything from a realistic competition one piece to the smallest micro thong bikini with invisible clear plastic straps. And we need better scuba outfits. Tomb Raider Underworld did a nice range of suits and that was 12 YEARS AGO. Not just the same style that's been recolored.

R* needs to see some of the You Tube vids of young women models doing various swimsuit and club dresses and outfit hauls. And pay attention.

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ghostsoap01
12 hours ago, Commander S said:

But yeah, it shouldn't be all that difficult to tweak stuff for NPCs that use the same basic underlying assets

 

Am I wrong in assuming it would be as easy as adding a line of script? Surely the hard work is already done, I mean its already modeled and textured. Really the biggest part of it would be to add additional colour swatches, but surely that's as easy as reskinning a jacket with low-res camo like they usually do? Is it just a matter of they didn't think to mark the new items as available for players?

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MayoChiki

^ They'd need to adjust those clothes so it's rigged properly for freemodemp models, plus re-sizing and coding limitations

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REXX
1 hour ago, Mayochiki said:

^ They'd need to adjust those clothes so it's rigged properly for freemodemp models, plus re-sizing and coding limitations

Correct. Also, NPC's have slightly different weights than character models, so thats even more work.

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ghostsoap01

They'd need to resize and adjust clothes that are made to fit the player model? To be clear, I mean the npcs who share the exact same body model as our characters, like Wendy. They share (what appears to be) identical models to a player model. I'm no expert, I just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing. Surely it would just be a matter of adding scripts, not adjusting the models?

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Commander S

Well, there'd probably need to be some model tweakage, in order to separate all the parts into versions that can be swapped around other body parts (because when you're swapping something like a pair of jeans, you're actually swapping the legs from your character model with a different set of legs).

 

But what you're getting at, and I agree with, is that R* effectively has a head start with those items - there's still all the work needed to fit them into the existing game frameworks (same as any all-new items of clothing), but at least they don't need to create something 100% from scratch to do so. Same as doing a palette-swap for an existing item - it needs adding to the game in the same way as an all-new item, but the actual art assets are partly done to begin with.

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MayoChiki
3 hours ago, ghostsoap01 said:

They'd need to resize and adjust clothes that are made to fit the player model? To be clear, I mean the npcs who share the exact same body model as our characters, like Wendy. They share (what appears to be) identical models to a player model. I'm no expert, I just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing. Surely it would just be a matter of adding scripts, not adjusting the models?

That's kinda the thing, they are not the same size. Agatha Baker, for example, is not the same size as the freemode models despite looking that way, which shouldn't make any sense but that's the way it goes, and the same applies to all the NPCs that are essentially just already existing assets. That's because freemode models are more elaborate compared to other NPCs: the latter have, let's say, four or five layers. What seems to be a jacket, undershirt and arms is actually just one individual layer with probably two skin variations, so while in theory it is possible to make those clothes available for freemode models, R*ckstar just says f*ck it. I mean, they had to model every piece of clothing, but they apparently never saved them for future use, so now if we were ever to get them they'd have to reverse-engineer their sh*t, resize it and then re-rig it as NPCs and freemode models have different skeletons.

 

TL;DR NPCs are simplified versions of freemode models and R*ckstar takes stupid decisions for no actual reason

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ghostsoap01
2 minutes ago, Mayochiki said:

That's kinda the thing, they are not the same size. Agatha Baker, for example, is not the same size as the freemode models despite looking that way, which shouldn't make any sense but that's the way it goes, and the same applies to all the NPCs that are essentially just already existing assets. That's because freemode models are more elaborate compared to other NPCs: the latter have, let's say, four or five layers. What seems to be a jacket, undershirt and arms is actually just one individual layer with probably two skin variations, so while in theory it is possible to make those clothes available for freemode models, R*ckstar just says f*ck it. I mean, they had to model every piece of clothing, but they apparently never saved them for future use, so now if we were ever to get them they'd have to reverse-engineer their sh*t, resize it and then re-rig it as NPCs and freemode models have different skeletons.

 

TL;DR NPCs are simplified versions of freemode models and R*ckstar takes stupid decisions for no actual reason

 

Ah I see. So essentially they've optimized npc models by making the clothing part of the entire mesh, rather than a layer on a mesh like a player would have? Good old R*...

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HamwithCheese

Reminder that SR3 Remastered has come out today, and it does look good but animates very chunky. 

 

Still, it's gonna be a nice little vacation.

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Quinn_flower
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, HamwithCheese said:

Reminder that SR3 Remastered has come out today, and it does look good but animates very chunky. 

 

Still, it's gonna be a nice little vacation.

It looks weird. Used the same formula to old boss from og sr3 but the colors looks off or something

Edited by Quinn_flower

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Standard Deluxe 59
4 hours ago, HamwithCheese said:

Reminder that SR3 Remastered has come out today, and it does look good but animates very chunky. 

 

Still, it's gonna be a nice little vacation.

It came out today? 

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Commander S
23 hours ago, HamwithCheese said:

Reminder that SR3 Remastered has come out today, and it does look good but animates very chunky. 

 

Still, it's gonna be a nice little vacation.

 


Just in time for R* to run another 'do 10 daily objectives to get $1 million' event, so I can't just throw myself into Saints Row... :facedesk:

 

And yeah, you kinda have to adjust your expectations a bit with it, because it's still the same simplistic character animations as the original - and where that wasn't so much of an issue back with the equally-cartoony 2011 character models (although it did get weird if you gave your custom Boss realistic facial proportions), there's more of a disconnect between the much more detailed models in the remaster, and that same simplistic lip-synching.

 

Same for the lighting - the new global illumination system is really something to look at when you're in the open world, or hanging out in your penthouse, but it comes at the cost of replacing the hand-placed scenic lighting used in the original for cutscenes. Again, not a deal-breaker, but you get inconsistencies between moments that look better for having more dramatic, realistic lighting effects, and others where god-rays and lens flares from the new lighting obscure the scene somewhat.

 

This scene's a really good comparison, IMO - there's a mix of stuff where the new assets make everything look better, and moments where yeah, that scene wasn't animated/framed with those models/effects in mind...:

 

 


 

19 hours ago, Quinn_flower said:

It looks weird. Used the same formula to old boss from og sr3 but the colors looks off or something

 

 

There's a bunch of stuff going on - for starters, the colours for hair/skin/clothes aren't 1:1 for the old assets, so I've gone with what looks closest to what I used in SR4, even if that means I used tone "5" there, and I've had to use "1" now.

 

On top of that, though, there's what looks like some kind of parallax occlusion technique going on with the character models - similar to what GTA V uses to make an otherwise-flat texture look like a realistic 3D surface, without those pebbles and bricks having to be hand-sculpted. In the original SR3 (and SR4), pulling your character's build around looked like someone inflating/deflating a balloon, with only the muscular end of the triangle adding any additional detail. However, in Remastered, you might notice an effect kicks in as soon as you stop moving the slider, depending on where it is - so "skinny" now makes their ribs and whatnot more visible, "strength" adds muscle definition, and "fat" now adds dimples and creases as well as just making them bigger.


It's a cool effect, and it fixes what was something of a drawback of 'stretchy' character models in games like Saints Row, where the trade-off for being able to warp your character's proportions was that everything needed simple textures (so as not to look naff when you stretched them) - having a procedural rendering effect like this, though, means that's a non-issue. The downside is that depending on what build/proportions your character has, you might see lines and details that weren't there on the old models, and you might have to change settings slightly to offset that (I'm probably going to have to make my SR3R Boss less "skinny", because I think they look a bit more gaunt than in the old character creator).

 

...oh, and then there are just things like things being a bit more shiny and plastic-y overall with the remaster, particularly with the enhanced lighting effects, instead of things having that lower-detail, matte finish (with flatter lighting) like in the older games - so more like GTAO and RDO, the more solid character assets can look really sharp in some lights, and less so in others (where SR3/4 were more consistently 'fine, but not amazing'). Like with the new textures/colours, I'm playing around with stuff to see how to get the best results.


 

(there's also a bug at the moment where, IIRC, changing face settings like makeup ages your character a bit - the simple fix is to make sure you move the age slider around, then back to where you want it, whenever you make other changes, because that'll counteract the bug)

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HamwithCheese

I knew I wasn't going crazy lol.

 

It's a damn shame it's so clunky. And I mean everything, from mission design, driving, animation, and even some cutscenes make my character look weird. If you can look past that, then it's totally worth 40 bucks. 

 

Now if only I was a creative guy when it comes to goddamn clothing colors and sh*t. 

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Commander S
On 5/24/2020 at 4:53 AM, HamwithCheese said:

I knew I wasn't going crazy lol.

 

It's a damn shame it's so clunky. And I mean everything, from mission design, driving, animation, and even some cutscenes make my character look weird. If you can look past that, then it's totally worth 40 bucks. 

 

Now if only I was a creative guy when it comes to goddamn clothing colors and sh*t. 

 

 

It's a real throwback to that mid-point last generation, before things Gears-style cover shooting were the norm - compare it to end-of-generation stuff like Tomb Raider 2013, The Last of Us, and GTA V, and it's from a different time to even those. There's an arcade-y immediacy and accessibility to the whole thing that still holds up, but yeah, there's just so much that dates it.

 

It'll be interesting to see what gets updated/refined for SR5 - snap-to-cover would be good, although I'd like Volition to keep stuff that worked surprisingly well, like the 'grab enemies as human shields' mechanic, and how the default control scheme is 'hold the left bumper to sprint' (and not 'mash a to sprint', R*... :harrumph:). I really, really hope we get a first look at it this year - and we get it in 2021...


 

As for outfits/colours, I do what I do in other games: look up real-life stuff for inspiration, and see how close I can get with what's available. Although with SR3R, I'm leaning into the gang colours more than with IV, largely because you stick out like a sore thumb if you're the only person on the team not wearing them... :p  So for instance, I'll find a look with something like a black jacket and jeans, and a white t-shirt, and just swap the t-shirt to purple. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

On 5/23/2020 at 6:42 AM, Quinn_flower said:

It looks weird. Used the same formula to old boss from og sr3 but the colors looks off or something

 


Did some more tinkering, and I've realised what's specifically wrong with character creation and colours: for a lot of the colours, they've turned up the intensity - certain skin tones look yellow/orange, bronze makeup also looks bright orange, and even the default purple for some outfits looks more like hot pink. :blink:

 

It's not too hard to find alternatives: took a bit of trial-and-error, but I managed to come up with the equivalent to what I used in SRIV. But yeah, it was jarring at first - and it's not helped by the lighting in menus making things look different to how they look in-game proper. Could do without having to buy multiple versions of a clothing item, just because the colour I want doesn't look the same in the shop menu. :facedesk:

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XOIIIIIXIIIIIXO

R* needs to take notes from the custom clothes creators, these aren't my pics but my character looks really similar to these on PC

 

Don't see why they couldn't add lashes and nails, the lashes can e in the 'glasses' slot and the nails can e in the 'cuffs' slot not to mention the clothes made by custom creators actually fit 9/10 of the time and look like clothing i've actually seen/have IRL

 

99cda7-JT.png

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4e75b2-Nails2.png

2c9fbb-FDD27075-08A4-433C-B90F-B42647525

 

Meanwhile the default outfits look like this

bf721e05c12dc37758afda6f93d5f2d3.jpg

 

There are ways to make decent outfits though if you put the right components together though

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Czjk6Vd.jpg

 

The fact that we don't have any high waisted jeans/shorts in 2020 or non-glitched hightop converses in 2020 is bizarre considering that some of the online NPCs have those items.We still don't even have any realistic hairstyles, except for the newest swoop ponytail and a few of the short styles

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Badass with fashionsense

It’s been half a decade and women are still ignored. It’s 2020, the year of cancel culture. 
 

R*. Please hire a woman who knows current fashion. Not your aunt or grandma. 
 

Fun to notice that other people are also dreaming of LASHES. 
 

What many would like to see:

Lashes

Smooth skin on female

Long hair

If not long hair then at least better hair

Knee high socks

Ability to layer stockings (c’mon R*, they are a cool item but sometimes a girl wants to be a badass without showing ass). 
High rise jeans, pants, skirts, shorts.
New dresses. The dresses are what your grandma wore in the 60s and your great-grandma wore in the 1920s. 
Long gloves. 


Current fashion in general.

 

2013 had a very different fashion than 2016-2020. Many clothing options wouldn’t have been relevant even in 2013 though... why do we need 100 different blazers? At least throw in some loose ones since no one wears the tight fitted ones anymore. 
 

thank you so much if you listen to us.
 

pleeeese add at least something current soon, it is a long wait for PS5 and even then there is only GTAO 5 in the beginning. Why not treat us with some goodies in the meanwhile.

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HamwithCheese
24 minutes ago, Badass with fashionsense said:

It’s been half a decade and women are still ignored. It’s 2020, the year of cancel culture. 

I suggest you play Saints Row 3 Remastered. Clothing layers, quality, diversity, and clipping is miles better, you spend more time coming up with sh*t than playing the game. R* will never address our complaints, they're busy catering to the tacticool whales and wannabe gang bangers. Oh, and f*cking aliens.

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SlammerRPM

Just happened to notice another women's lingerie shop next to the clothing store East of the mall. We need these stores open. along with some beach side swimwear shops. NOW!!!

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Deimos-AFX

Watch us get a map expansion but no decent new clothes, layering options, nail polish or any good new high boots.

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Quinn_flower

Its going to be sh*t

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HamwithCheese
3 hours ago, Deimos-AFX said:

Watch us get a map expansion but no decent new clothes, layering options, nail polish or any good new high boots.

Watch us get none of that.

 

But let me get yer hopes up and say the next update seems to be lifestyle based 

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OzakiLeona

I love how you have tons of red pants. And tons of red jackets. But no 2 make pair with same color. Every red is different.

Same for any other color basically.

I'd say let us recolor the stuff, but I remember SR3 having the same problem, even if it had custom colors. Every piece simply had slight cast .. one piece was slightly red, another was slightly blue .. so adding custom color over it resulted in slightly different results.

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Commander S
On 5/29/2020 at 1:15 PM, XOIIIIIXIIIIIXO said:

 

Don't see why they couldn't add lashes and nails, the lashes can e in the 'glasses' slot and the nails can e in the 'cuffs' slot not to mention the clothes made by custom creators actually fit 9/10 of the time and look like clothing i've actually seen/have IRL

 

 

Thinking about this: lashes are probably a step too far, without reworking character models, but nails are probably doable.

 

The issue with lashes is that in order to not just float over the character's eyes when they blink, they'd have to be built into the character model - and that means it'd be handled at the character creation level, not clothing/makeup. Basically, R* would have to modify the existing face assets to add different eyelash types, and I don't really see them doing that (if they've not bothered with new hairstyles in years, they really aren't going to add new features to the existing character options) - and yeah, it'd be an expensive hassle to have to spend $100,000 every time you wanted to change lashes.

 

Nails, on the other hand, would work just fine if handled in the same way as gloves (not cuffs) - the way that gloves work is that the hands/arms/torso are all one layer (undershirts being a layer on top, and jackets being another on top of that), so swapping gloves is effectively a 'torso swap'. So I don't see why R* couldn't treat nails as 'gloves' (in terms of layering) - maybe even call them stick-on nails, if it's easier to add them to clothes shops instead of the hairdresser. But yeah, make them part of a single torso/arm/hand piece with the nail texture applied, same as gloves, and that'd work just fine within the current constraints - obviously you couldn't wear gloves over nail polish/extensions, but since covering them up would defeat the point... :p


 

Incidentally, Cyberpunk 2077's character creator looks really quite impressive - and while that doesn't have eyelash options (not in the most recent builds, at least), it does allow for long/short nail options, and different colours as well. It's going to be interesting to see how much clothing variety the game includes - we've seen some outfit options, and there's some interesting stuff in there, but it remains to be seen whether there's stuff like custom colours (like in Saints Row), or if colours are fixed like in GTAO. Hopefully they'll show off a bit more of that in a future preview...

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mute!
Posted (edited)

Continue sending suggestions and feedback directly to Rockstar. https://www.rockstargames.com/GTAOnline/feedback

 

If ever there's a change and massive overhaul to female clothing it'll most likely happen in the new and improved gta v/online releasing in 2021.

Edited by mute!
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Commander S
17 hours ago, mute! said:

Continue sending suggestions and feedback directly to Rockstar. https://www.rockstargames.com/GTAOnline/feedback

 

If ever there's a change and massive overhaul to female clothing it'll most likely happen in the new and improved gta v/online releasing in 2021.

 

 

On the one hand, possibly (but not 2021 - I'm thinking more GTA VI's version of GTAO, in goodness-knows-how-many years' time).

 

On the other, people have been banging this drum for years, and for stuff that is entirely doable in current GTAO, so it doesn't look great that, after things like the Kotaku piece (which was over three years ago, now!), nothing much has improved - particularly when other things have gotten somewhat better (like popular wishlist cars finally getting added).

 

And on top of that, the clothing limitations and underwhelming new additions in RDO aren't a good sign, either - in a game with better clothing physics, and supposedly a greater emphasis on period-authenticity and role-playing, R* has already fallen into the trap of things like crappy palette-swaps of the same old same-old.

 

Not that I want to be a downer or anything - and yeah, it's worth a shot to see if any substantive improvements will come in a future game (again though, I don't see them radically overhauling the current character models for next-gen GTA V/O). But the trajectory for R* as a whole has been pretty disappointing, even after a solid push for change - so either the folks asking for it are just too small and insignificant a group to show up on R*'s radar, or it's simply that R*'s indeed heard, but nevertheless dismissed the idea that character customisation/fashion is worth bothering with. :/

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HamwithCheese
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Commander S said:

but nevertheless dismissed the idea that character customisation/fashion is worth bothering with.

Look how much buzz Legion is creating over Wd2, or Cyberpunk 2077. Really good custom characters matter, even if it is dismissed by many. It's absurd that r* is completely ignoring this issue.

Edited by HamwithCheese
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xDatxJunkyx

They plan on bringing V to next gen, correct?

 

Jeez Louise...Bring on 6 already!!! 

 

What could they possibly change with next gen? in terms of customization? If I see a significant change of sorts, maybe I'll pick it up for the third time...Maybe.

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Dying Starz
Posted (edited)

I think the game being released for the new consoles is a big deal. Everyone needs to forget about GTA 6!!! Stop saying that! Stop listening to YouTubers, because as far as I'm concerned, Rockstar hasn't confirmed it, so it doesn't exist!!! They invited that one retard to a live stream and he said he stole a copy of GTA 6 from the company and that's where all those rumors started!!

 

I think GTA Online will be the thing - with what we have been playing on for the last 7 years being the first part. It will be resigned for the new consoles, meaning character models will change along with a lot of other aspects as we know them. I think Rockstar is getting ready to change the online gaming industry again. Be patient and see what happens!

Edited by Dying Starz

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