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Sonny F

Things GTA V did better than GTA IV

Recommended Posts

Cheatz/Trickz

I like in GTA V if you arrive to do a mission, but it's at the wrong time it'll just time lapse to the correct one. It's pretty annoying in GTA IV how certain missions can only be done between a certain time so if you miss the window even by a second you have to save to advance time and come back later on.

Are there specific time-only missions in V? I don't think there are, the time-lapses usually just happen if it's near the end of the day so it just skips to the next day or to an appropriate time for the events to occur. I don't remember IV having that many either.

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ChiroVette

I think certain things have to be done at night, and you get the time lapse for that. One mission that comes to mind is The Bureau Raid.

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Hot Pursuit

Are there specific time-only missions in V? I don't think there are, the time-lapses usually just happen if it's near the end of the day so it just skips to the next day or to an appropriate time for the events to occur. I don't remember IV having that many either.

lots of mission are time-specific, like most of family mission only at noon, Bureau heist at night, Meltdown at night, and the amazing Trevor debut at noon

 

Since I haven't played IV or EFLC since 2010, I don't know any time specific mission, except Three Leaf Clover

Edited by CGFforLife

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Hot Pursuit

Beaches in V are filled with a lot of people. Where in IV, they are empty

 

Though I'm not sure if this was because the NYC setting

Edited by CGFforLife

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ChiroVette

No, I can absolutely tell you that NY City beaches are very active and full. I go to the beaches in Brooklyn and Queens all the time. Even outside of NY City, in Long Island, there are some high powered beaches, but Long Island was not in IV.

 

Edit: Actually, that isn't entirely true. Geographically, both Brooklyn and Queens are part of Long Island, but Long Island is not part of NY City like Brooklyn and Queens are.

Edited by ChiroVette

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D9fred95

Depends how many people go to the beach during the fall though. LC's weather is cold enough to see characters's breath so going for a dip at Firefly Island wouldn't be on my personal to-do list.

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ChiroVette

Depends how many people go to the beach during the fall though. LC's weather is cold enough to see characters's breath so going for a dip at Firefly Island wouldn't be on my personal to-do list.

 

Oddly enough, I wasn't aware that IV took place in cold weather. If that's the case, then the beaches would be sparse and only populated by people intent on partying on an empty beach.

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Big_Smiley

 

Depends how many people go to the beach during the fall though. LC's weather is cold enough to see characters's breath so going for a dip at Firefly Island wouldn't be on my personal to-do list.

 

Oddly enough, I wasn't aware that IV took place in cold weather. If that's the case, then the beaches would be sparse and only populated by people intent on partying on an empty beach.

Actually only hobos seem to be hanging out on the beaches in IV lmao. No other type of pedestrians spawn on the beaches. There's a good portion of them and i always like starting fights with them and watching each other fight lol :D

 

I always loved V's beach. R* are really professionals when it comes to detail. They got every single detail right regarding the beach since i visit Santa Monica's beach almost every year in LA. It's obviously even better than SA's rendition of the beach of course for being a 2004 game compared to 2013.

Edited by GTA_The_Series

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Hot Pursuit

Moves whilst aiming sniper, really annoying you can't move in IV

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Yinepi

Moves whilst aiming sniper, really annoying you can't move in IV

In fairness, I don't think you could do this in prior GTA games either? It's great that you can finally in GTAV though. It allows for the ability to react to enemy bullets and avoid losing health. It's also quite useful for the hunting mini game.

Edited by Yinepi

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ChiroVette

V handles Properties much better than IV. While there is a lot of controversy in this forum about SA, VC, and VCS, since this thread is about V doing things better than IV, V does this much better. Not just in terms of Hangars, Heliports, and safe houses, but asset properties as well.

 

 

Or at least that's my side. :D

 

Edited by ChiroVette

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Hot Pursuit

Melee weapon get bloody after attacking someone

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Am Shaegar

GTA V - Attention to details, compilation videos.

 

Part 1

 

 

 

- Correct glass reflection

- Cutting leafs animation

- Human muscle movements

- Realistic car light shadows

- Realistic car fuel tank damage

- Realistic car lean while revving

- All car gauges and car lights work

- People picturing awesome cars

- Realistic car scratch

- Realistic mud patch

- Cars slide on low cars

- Some parked cars have turned wheels

- Bush makes player bit slower

- Bloody bullet hit marks on player

- Glasses (and helmets) in FPS makes real color filter

- Realistic moving bushes and grass

- *** Several other extra detail *** watch video

 

Part 2

 

 

 

- Realistic headlight trace

- Even fishes have AI

- Player automatically detect big curb

- Player can get scars when being hit

- Realistic splash of wave hitting rocks

- Plane and Heli hear blur effect

- Glass fragments sound effect while walking

- Player loose GPS signal in tunnel

- Industrial machines make different squeaky noise

- Smaller rocks can move

- After hospital player have bruises and scars

- Bent poles at many different angles

- Great crawl animation

- On hill the car steers by itself

- ** Texture details ** watch video

 

Part 3

 

 

 

- Cars have engine cooler fan realistic sound effect

- Player feet can curve when standing uneven surface

- Bushes make cars to steer and slow down

- Flags can move if explosion is near

- Even bottle roll, and steering rack has squealing sound effect

- Cars have different door sound effect

- Shoes have different sound effects

- If you shoot a phone, it rings

- Detailed poop and flies

- Car trailer squeaks when turning

- ** Texture details ** watch video

 

Part 4

 

 

 

- When rain starts people in convertible are folding the roof up

- Many different Tire tread designs

- AI showing that rain is bothering them

- Bird make sounds and retreat from shootings

- With roof down, wind sound is louder

- Moving cloud shadows

- Car lights have bulb inside

- Realistic cat behavior

- AI glasses can fell off if being slapped

- More people increases the weight of the car

- ** Texture details ** watch video

 

Part 5

 

 

 

- Men and women have different entering car animation

- People can sneeze

- Exhaust wiggle on startup (not on all cars)

- Many different city lights can be shot

- Windy day makes tennis net move

- Clever illusion of shop interior

- Realistic sound effect of car entering / exiting tunnel

- Handbrake camera movements

- You can enter ladders on BOTH side

- Stealth GPS warning by talking, shooting..

- ** Texture details ** watch video

 

Part 6

 

 

 

- AI knows when there's a hill besides the car

- Clothes wiggling on high motorcycle speed

- AI hurry up if crossing light becomes red

- Water dropping from the boat

- Car wiggle when getting in or slamming the door

- Some cars aren't locked (rare cases like in real life)

- Camera temporary angle bend after long tight corners

- Heli blades can temporary stop if damaged

- AI hear you if you sneak behind them

- Helicopter creates real wind physics

- Useful road for cycles

- AI trailer can be lifted with stuff

- ** Texture details ** watch video

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Hot Pursuit

Shame on you guys for not contributing to this topic anymore :p

 

More safehouse interaction, you can drink, smoke, interacting with other resident, refill health, and other. It feels like you really own your safehouse

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ChiroVette

GTA V - Attention to details, compilation videos.

 

Wow! I am watching them now, and they are incredibly detailed. One thing, though, you don't have a video or a link for part 2.

 

But holy crap, they really illustrate the incredible attention to detail. Yet another of the many things V does better!

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Hot Pursuit

 

GTA V - Attention to details, compilation videos.

Wow! I am watching them now, and they are incredibly detailed. One thing, though, you don't have a video or a link for part 2.

 

But holy crap, they really illustrate the incredible attention to detail. Yet another of the many things V does better!

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Hot Pursuit

The Prologue, it gives more development about event prior to GTA V, how Michael and Brad died, who killing them, and how Trevor escaped. It would be cool if we get to see how the 15 army got killed by Darko, and how Niko and Florian escaped. I would actually think twice about killing or sparing Darko, but instead I just spared him because I don't even know who he is and why I should kill him

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Sleepwalking

GTA V has also some flaws but at least you can have some fun in that game, GTA IV is so boring and it is a huge struggle to complete it.

 

*In GTA IV there is a grayish color filter applied to whole city, it makes game more depressing than it should be. After playing one or two hours, you will ask one simple question: where did you hide the f*cking colors you assholes? (This filter is removed in TBOGT at least)

 

*GTA IV lacks of mission diversity that V offers.

 

Missions in GTA IV simply:

 

Go A

Kill Mr X's guards

Kill Mr X

Evade remaining guards

Lose cops (if cops triggered)

Go B

 

Mission complete, do it for 90 times with increasing difficulty.

 

Stranger & Freaks missions

 

Go to A with the Stranger

Kill 2-3 guys who are attacking the Stranger

Go B

 

Mission complete

 

* You earn money but there is nowhere to spend your money, money is so f*cking useless in GTA IV.

* Driving is harder than it should be, also driving a motorbike is an one way ticket to hospital.

* You can't buy properties

* You can't really customise Niko.

* You can't modify your car

* You are not able buy vehicles from internet.

* You can't dive.

* You can't modify your weapon, also absence of some weapons presented in older games. (Why can't i put a supressor on my guns?)

* No planes, no skydiving

* No countryside exists

* Story is pointless, Niko is trying to find some guy who betrayed him, during betraying everyone who he works with.

* Friendship System

 

In GTA V, there is no bullsh*t called "like" system

If you want to meet someone, if he doesn't have to lay low due to story events; he will come to meet whenever the time is; and he will spawn near you.

You simple click the hangout option, then decide what to do after picking your friend.

 

In GTA IV,

 

You are about to start a mission, you are walking to the marker BAM; Roman is calling you to take him to the strip club; you refuse, like points are dropped

You are late, like points are dropped (asshole, you spawned in the otherside of the map, how could i get you in one hour?)

You called someone, but person you called didn't like the hour, like points are dropped.

You called someone, but person you called didn't like the activity, like points are dropped.

You took someone to someplace, he/she didn't like the place; like points are tend to drop.

 

Damn.

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ChiroVette

The Prologue, it gives more development about event prior to GTA V, how Michael and Brad died, who killing them, and how Trevor escaped.

Yeah, the prologue is truly incredible in this game, much better than the long, drawn out, lackluster "Coming to America looking for big American breasts and being initially disillusioned by your idiot cousin who, for reasons passing understanding, always seems to want to go bowling all the time."

 

Holy crap, Sleepwalking, if there was a Nobel Posting Award in this forum, you would be on your way to Stockholm right now, and getting ready to deposit your million dollar Nobel Prize check into your account.

 

Just some AWESOME highlights I want to quote. Not all, but just some....

 

 

 

GTA IV is so boring and it is a huge struggle to complete it.

 

*In GTA IV there is a grayish color filter applied to whole city, it makes game more depressing than it should be. After playing one or two hours, you will ask one simple question: where did you hide the f*cking colors you assholes?

 

*GTA IV lacks of mission diversity that V offers.

 

Missions in GTA IV simply:

 

Go A

Kill Mr X's guards

Kill Mr X

Evade remaining guards

Lose cops (if cops triggered)

Go B

 

Mission complete, do it for 90 times with increasing difficulty.

 

Stranger & Freaks missions

 

Go to A with the Stranger

Kill 2-3 guys who are attacking the Stranger

Go B

 

Mission complete

LMAO so true!!!!

 

 

* You earn money but there is nowhere to spend your money, money is so f*cking useless in GTA IV.

* Driving is harder than it should be, also driving a motorbike is an one way ticket to hospital.

* You can't buy properties

* You can't really customise Niko.

* You can't modify your car

* You are not able buy vehicles from internet.

* You can't dive.

* You can't modify your weapon, also absence of some weapons presented in older games. (Why can't i put a supressor on my guns?)

* No planes, no skydiving

* No countryside exists

* Story is pointless, Niko is trying to find some guy who betrayed him, during betraying everyone who he works with.

* Friendship System

If you are a girl, marry me!!

 

 

In GTA V, there is no bullsh*t called "like" system

If you want to meet someone, if he doesn't have to lay low due to story events; he will come to meet whenever the time is; and he will spawn near you.

You simple click the hangout option, then decide what to do after picking your friend.

 

In GTA IV,

 

You are about to start a mission, you are walking to the marker BAM; Roman is calling you to take him to the strip club; you refuse, like points are dropped

You are late, like points are dropped (asshole, you spawned in the otherside of the map, how could i get you in one hour?)

You called someone, but person you called didn't like the hour, like points are dropped.

You called someone, but person you called didn't like the activity, like points are dropped.

You took someone to someplace, he/she didn't like the place; like points are tend to drop.

 

Damn.

 

Okay, I really meant to only quote some parts of your posts, but quoted 99% of it.

 

Dude, seriously, I totally agree with all of this!

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Hot Pursuit

 

 

GTA V has also some flaws but at least you can have some fun in that game, GTA IV is so boring and it is a huge struggle to complete it.

 

*In GTA IV there is a grayish color filter applied to whole city, it makes game more depressing than it should be. After playing one or two hours, you will ask one simple question: where did you hide the f*cking colors you assholes? (This filter is removed in TBOGT at least)

 

*GTA IV lacks of mission diversity that V offers.

 

Missions in GTA IV simply:

 

Go A

Kill Mr X's guards

Kill Mr X

Evade remaining guards

Lose cops (if cops triggered)

Go B

 

Mission complete, do it for 90 times with increasing difficulty.

 

Stranger & Freaks missions

 

Go to A with the Stranger

Kill 2-3 guys who are attacking the Stranger

Go B

 

Mission complete

 

* You earn money but there is nowhere to spend your money, money is so f*cking useless in GTA IV.

* Driving is harder than it should be, also driving a motorbike is an one way ticket to hospital.

* You can't buy properties

* You can't really customise Niko.

* You can't modify your car

* You are not able buy vehicles from internet.

* You can't dive.

* You can't modify your weapon, also absence of some weapons presented in older games. (Why can't i put a supressor on my guns?)

* No planes, no skydiving

* No countryside exists

* Story is pointless, Niko is trying to find some guy who betrayed him, during betraying everyone who he works with.

* Friendship System

 

In GTA V, there is no bullsh*t called "like" system

If you want to meet someone, if he doesn't have to lay low due to story events; he will come to meet whenever the time is; and he will spawn near you.

You simple click the hangout option, then decide what to do after picking your friend.

 

In GTA IV,

 

You are about to start a mission, you are walking to the marker BAM; Roman is calling you to take him to the strip club; you refuse, like points are dropped

You are late, like points are dropped (asshole, you spawned in the otherside of the map, how could i get you in one hour?)

You called someone, but person you called didn't like the hour, like points are dropped.

You called someone, but person you called didn't like the activity, like points are dropped.

You took someone to someplace, he/she didn't like the place; like points are tend to drop.

 

Damn.

 

You just summed up perfectly the whole GTA IV in a nutshell. I like you

 

Anyway, RPG ammo limit in V are 20, unlike IV which is 8

Edited by CGFforLife

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D9fred95

* You can't modify your weapon, also absence of some weapons presented in older games. (Why can't i put a supressor on my guns?)

* No planes, no skydiving

* Story is pointless, Niko is trying to find some guy who betrayed him, during betraying everyone who he works with.

 

In GTA V, there is no bullsh*t called "like" system

If you want to meet someone, if he doesn't have to lay low due to story events; he will come to meet whenever the time is; and he will spawn near you.

You simple click the hangout option, then decide what to do after picking your friend.

 

I don't want to be the guy that derails the thread yet again so I'll be quick with my points and if you don't agree then that's ok, but I want to state my thoughts here. The bold sentences are rewordings that I personally think are more fair.

 

*Only really SA had suppressed weapons and even then it was a completely separate weapon, not an attachment.

"GTA V has more weapon variety and introduced the ability to attack suppressors."

 

*TBoGT added parachutes allowing for skydiving.

"No planes to pilot and very few other aircraft"

 

*Niko doesn't really betray anyone much more than the average GTA protag. Only really one of the endings and people like Vlad who had it coming are the ones who get burned. Blood Brothers and Holland Play technically can have Niko kill the sympathetic party but it's player's choice and canon would likely be Francis & Playboy getting the bullet since that would be more in line with his character. Niko makes quite a few friends really.

"The GTA V trio don't betray as many people as the IV trio did. They are also friends whereas Johnny & Luis (Niko never really does) screw each other over"

 

*I find friends in GTA V are also sticklers when it comes to phoning them. Lamar likes to spawn near Richards Majestic when you're in Davis which is across the city. You can't do certain activities with certain characters, nothing but tennis for Jimmy unless you play as Franklin.

"Friends are available more often than in IV and don't have progress bars so you don't need to manage them"

 

Other than those four points in my opinion, you are technically right with the rest of your points even if I don't really agree with them all.

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Jack Lupino

Yeah I hated the grayish patch too. 5 has real vibrant colours while 4 looked like saturation level dropped to zero

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Official General

Yeah I hated the grayish patch too. 5 has real vibrant colours while 4 looked like saturation level dropped to zero

 

I'm not sure if you have ever been to America (or ever left India for that matter), but you need to understand that New York and Los Angeles are two very different places with very different physical appearances, atmospheres, environments, weather, climate, etc, which has to be reflected in GTA for realism purposes.

 

I will admit that the blueish-grey hue that sometimes appeared in IV was not nice to look at, that was one of the main dislikes I had about IV. However, V is guilty of a similar thing, not as bad IV, but still quite annoying - sometimes the weather change results in the sky being way too bright, so much that it's barely blue, and everything on the screen looks like it's glossed over with a bright white light.

Edited by Official General

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Hot Pursuit

The peds feels they had colour, unlike IV where they feel colourless thanks to the annoying brown haze permeating everything

Edited by CGFforLife

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Ash_735

The peds feels they had colour, unlike IV where they feel colourless thanks to the annoying permeating brown haze pollute

That doesn't even make sense.

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Hot Pursuit

The plot is rags to riches unlike IV which is rags to sh*ttier rags

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ChiroVette

Off Topic: THANK YOU. Mods, for cleaning out the baiting, flaming, and nonsense from this thread. The report function is a beautiful thing!

 

 

The peds feels they had colour, unlike IV where they feel colourless thanks to the annoying permeating brown haze pollute

That doesn't even make sense.

 


Actually, it does. Colors in background, like the brown, fecal haze in IV, can absolutely change the brain's perception of even foreground colors. Many studies have been shown that depict how even colors that are in background of a picture or video can dramatically alter the viewer's perception of foreground objects and colors.

I can honestly say that I don't remember whether the peds really were lifeless and colorless in IV, because I haven't played the game in almost 10 years. But I can tell you that I do absolutely remember the brown, fecal, haze that permeated IV and did make me "feel" back then like everything looked gray and dull.

Now, it is also VERY POSSIBLE that if CGForLife is correct about what he is observing about the peds, that this could be because of the background haze causing a sort of optical illusion where the peds may seem to be washed out and look lifeless, even if maybe they aren't. The only way to experiment with this, assuming he is correct, would be to Photoshop out the peds themselves, without the fecal haze, and paste their images into a more neutral or colorful background. In other words, it is possible that the peds are really beautiful and detailed, as well as colorful in IV, but to the player's eye they could appear as if they are not because the fecal haze might be playing tricks on the brain.

The problem is obvious. If this is the case, then, in essence, it makes little difference how well the peds are drawn, rendered, or colored. If IV's fecal haze is causing the eye to see them as washed out, lifeless, or lacking in color, then that is how the game and its MPC's are inevitably perceived. So unless there is a "Remove Brown Fecal Haze" Mod for IV, I am not sure there is any practical way to test out this theory, since the human eye, while playing the game, sees the totality of the imagery being rendered on the screen, and not just the NPC's in isolation.

 

Yeah I hated the grayish patch too. 5 has real vibrant colours while 4 looked like saturation level dropped to zero


I'm not sure if you have ever been to America (or ever left India for that matter),

 


I have not only been to NY City, but I have lived in The Big Apple my entire life, except for a brief time I went away to school. I mention this to set up my response to the rest of your post:

but you need to understand that New York and Los Angeles are two very different places with very different physical appearances, atmospheres, environments, weather, climate, etc, which has to be reflected in GTA for realism purposes.


Yes, but as someone who, as I said, has lived here my whole life (and not in India) I can absolutely attest to the fact that there is no fecal-brown haze infesting the very air. I know NY gets a bad rap for smog and pollution, but I can tell you unequivocally, that the air is not thick with some diarrhea-colored haze. While I know you are trying to be kind to IV by parsing your words and going from "blue" to "blueish-grey," I have to agree with CG, that it looks pretty damned brown to me. Even so, that washed out "grey" (if I wanted to be kind, too) does NOTHING to make the game's foreground imagery look vibrant or pop.

I will admit that the blueish-grey hue that sometimes appeared in IV was not nice to look at, that was one of the main dislikes I had about IV. However, V is guilty of a similar thing, not as bad IV, but still quite annoying - sometimes the weather change results in the sky being way too bright, so much that it's barely blue, and everything on the screen looks like it's glossed over with a bright white light.


I don't see this at all!

I have spent a lot of time traveling, both for business and pleasure, and Southern California (as well as Northern Cali) are some of my favorite places to stay. V captures that West Coast, So Cal ambiance absolutely beautifully, and I can tell you that there is nothing about the sky that is way too bright or not blue enough. They call it Sunny California for a reason! And barely blue? I play the game a lot, and there are plenty of blues in the sky. Honestly, the color scheme of V is incredibly well balanced for both background and foreground, which is probably why CGForLife remarked that the peds look more colorful. As I said above, even if the peds are NOT really more colorful in V, as long as the background fecal haze creates an ambiance that creates the illusion of washing them out, that's all that matters to the eye.

Edited by ChiroVette

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ChiroVette

The plot is rags to riches unlike IV which is rags to sh*ttier rags

I completely agree. Which is another thing V does better than IV. One of the things that I do remember about IV is the overriding sense of abject futility that I felt going through the game and completing the various tasks and storyline milestones. I honestly always felt, while playing as Niko, like I was treading water in quicksand. No matter what I did, what tasks I completed, what boss or mission giver I ttied to satisfy, it never felt like you really got anywhere worth getting.

 

In V, there is a profound sense of accomplishment, milestone rewards, and a genuine feeling that I'm really getting somewhere with the three protagonists. All three have personal, professional, and criminal resolutions that are very satisfying. You get the feeling that you're really going on a journey to a place that is far better than where you started. Something that is not the case with IV. In many ways, in that game, which was filled with pomposity and realism, it actually feels like you (Niko) are worse off at the end than you are in the beginning.

Edited by ChiroVette

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Am Shaegar

I'm not sure if you have ever been to America (or ever left India for that matter), but you need to understand that New York and Los Angeles are two very different places with very different physical appearances, atmospheres, environments, weather, climate, etc, which has to be reflected in GTA for realism purposes.

 

I think IV has the brownish, grey, and all kinds of filters in game to reflect that gritty, dark tone of the "story", and not necessarily "realism", as you imply.

 

To prove my point further:

We always try to get the tone of the story and tone of the graphics to feel seamless. We're trying to make a world that feels like it exists. And the old graphics were far more cartoony because that was all we could to, so the story and the writing needed to be as well.

- Dan Houser

 

Basically, Rockstar thought that using such a color palette and filters will help the serious tone of IV's background story. So, I don't think the NY setting has much to do here.

 

In fact, Houser is actually wrong in thinking that to have a particular type of story, "graphics" are very important, which doesn't make sense, at all.

 

 

 

...this new, more mature direction was dictated by the massive leap forward in the quality of the game’s graphics

 

I disagree. Its this kind of mentality that has resulted in a wrong trend of any game that isn't too dark, gritty, etc, is straightaway dismissed as "not a good story" or "over the top", as if "graphics" decide what kind of story you want to tell.

 

Serious means only dark/gritty graphics

Non-serious means anything but dark/gritty graphics.

 

 

The story in games like Mafia City of Lost Heaven has been quite serious, and well executed and the graphics were nowhere as uninteresting as GTA IV's graphics. It's actually colorful, and very beautiful to explore.

 

I don't agree with Houser that in order to tell a complex story with great writing, graphics are a required for creating that kind of game. I could give many examples of games with outstanding stories with dated graphics, but I'm sure people have understood the point I'm trying to make here.

 

GTA V actually brought back that colorful, and beautiful graphics back, unfortunately, giving out the same wrong message, they made while developing GTA IV, and hence, the game also suffers in the design, story approach, and other factors, including certain features in game.

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Huge Thanks to the mod/staff/admin who cleaned up the useless annoying post attacking me and ChiroVette

Basically, Rockstar thought that using such a color palette and filters will help the serious tone of IV's background story

I wouldn't quote that huge amount of post but I totally agree with what you are saying, make lot of sense

 

GTA III has a dark storyline about crime, gang, and betrayal. Yet doesn't need any sh*tty brown and grayish haze permeating everything, IV is trying too hard to be some dark gangster flick and fails even at that

 

@ChiroVette

That's true, the brown and gray haze make a lot of thing (especially peds) feels colourless. Just look at this

peds.jpg

Now look at GTA V, notice how they feel colorful grandtheftauto5firstpersonmodescreenshot

Other thing V does better: NOOSE doesn't always crouch like IV

Edited by CGFforLife

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