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boyay22

GTA V was EXTREMELY unfinished.

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D9fred95
Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Gettin up said:

Without even reading just more than the title: Strongly disagree!

A game that has now sold more than 100 Million copies could not have been EXTREMELY unfinished.

I get your point, but at the same time if Kane and Lynch 2: Dog Days sold 100 million copies could we say the same?

 

Not comparing GTA V to K&L mind you, just saying the "it sold a bunch so that single-handily proves it's good" mindset can't always hold water. 

Edited by D9fred95

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Ondr4H
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Gettin up said:

Without even reading just more than the title: Strongly disagree!

A game that has now sold more than 100 Million copies could not have been EXTREMELY unfinished.

Thats not the point...

How many buy this game only for online?Look at archievement stats of passing last mission in GTA V.And even 100% stats.For me GTAV 100% is easy to obtain, but many ignore it.
Online is superior at this moment, single player is rushed, unfinished sh*te that gives me headaches.

 

Edited by Ondr4H

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Wolver_321
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ondr4H said:

Thats not the point...

How many buy this game only for online?Look at archievement stats of passing last mission in GTA V.And even 100% stats.For me GTAV 100% is easy to obtain, but many ignore it.
Online is superior at this moment, single player is rushed, unfinished sh*te that gives me headaches.

 

Well ok, let's put some numbers... These stats are taken directly from PSN based on how many people collected the trophy "you've passed the last mission":

- GTA V (29,5% PS3), (17,2% PS4)

- RDR2 (last mission of the 2nd Epilogue) 19,8%

- GTA San Andreas 2,9% (PS4)

- GTA Vice City 7,2% (PS4)

- GTA III 8,6% (PS4)

- Watch Dogs 2 26,2%

- Uncharted 4 based on difficulty: (Very Easy 41,7%), (Easy 37,8%), (Medium 30,0%), (Hard 5,2%), (Very Hard 1,8%), (Speedrun 1,1%)

- The Last Of Us Remastered based on difficulty: (Easy 41,8%), (Medium 30,8%), (Hard 7,1%), (Very Hard 2,7%)

 

I wouldn't consider too much Uncharted 4 and The Last Of Us because they're both PS4 story-driven exclusives, so it's pretty normal to have such high percentages. For GTA V the percentage that counts the most is surely the one on PS3, on PS4 many people have just re-bought the game without playing the whole story mode. I also liked to put in this list RDR2 which yes, it's on the market since less than 3 months, but in this current state it's bascially just a story driven experience considering how poor of content is RDO. Watch Dogs 2, which is probably the biggest GTA "rival", has a good 26% of people who completed it, but that's not enough to beat GTA V's percentage. And the old GTAs on PS4? Well, even the 10% of people have completed them!

29% who arrived at the final mission in GTA V is a fairly big number consideing that in this percentage there are also people with multiple accounts that don't help at all in the average.

 

Let's forget for a moment these percentages. Do you think that a much beloved game like San Andreas does have more people who completed "End Of The Line"?

The 100% is easily obtainable in every GTA, you just have to follow some guides for collectibles and then you're good. Most of people don't have the patience to reach 100%, many games haven't a huge amount of people who achieved it, especially in the GTA series... Only true fans could have the patience of killing 200 pigeons in GTA IV for example!

Even if I think GTA IV had the best story in the entire series, IMO GTA V story is very underrated and too much confused with GTA Online. GTA V sucks because of GTA Online! How many times I heard this sentence...

I've never felt the singleplayer rushed or incomplete but I'd have really liked to see that damn Story Mode DLC that they've promised.

 

Edited by Wolver_321

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Official General
On 1/3/2019 at 9:20 PM, Gettin up said:

Without even reading just more than the title: Strongly disagree!

A game that has now sold more than 100 Million copies could not have been EXTREMELY unfinished.

Welll you have read it properly, because it was regarding the single player mode and most of us in these forums predominantly play single player over online MP. 

 

The conclude, your point is irrelevant and meaningless. 

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Official General said:

Welll you have read it properly, because it was regarding the single player mode and most of us in these forums predominantly play single player over online MP. 

 

The conclude, your point is irrelevant and meaningless. 

Judging by the way the game sold in the first couple of weeks that online wasn't even a thing it's safe to say it would pass IV/SA in terms of sales. Definitely after all that hype it would. Most sequels do outsell the previous games in successful franchises(IV didn't outsell SA though if I'm not mistaken)

 

But sales aren't a good way to prove the point here anyway. Wolver_321 presented some good reasons for why it's wrong to call V an unfinished game. It has more content than any GTA except for San Andreas and despite many people think the story was short, it actually is as long as SA and IV if you add the mission times. It has less missions but the mission times are simply longer. having three protagonists may lead to thinking the game didn't offer enough. V definitely doesn't have a problem when it comes to quantity. It's the quality that may not be liked by some people. 

https://howlongtobeat.com

 

The word "Unfinished" is a wrong word to use for V. Let alone calling it EXTREMELY UNFINISHED. "Flawed" is the better word. It's games like Metal Gear Solid V that deserve that word since they seem to lack a conclusion and basically seem to be left off in the middle of the story. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Official General
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

Judging by the way the game sold in the first couple of weeks that online wasn't even a thing it's safe to say it would pass IV/SA in terms of sales. Definitely after all that hype it would. Most sequels do outsell the previous games in successful franchises(IV didn't outsell SA though if I'm not mistaken)

 

But sales aren't a good way to prove the point here anyway. Wolver_321 presented some good reasons for why it's wrong to call V an unfinished game. It has more content than any GTA except for San Andreas and despite many people think the story was short, it actually is as long as SA and IV if you add the mission times. It has less missions but the mission times are simply longer. having three protagonists may lead to thinking the game didn't offer enough. V definitely doesn't have a problem when it comes to quantity. It's the quality that may not be liked by some people. 

https://howlongtobeat.com

 

The word "Unfinished" is a wrong word to use for V. Let alone calling it EXTREMELY UNFINISHED. "Flawed" is the better word. It's games like Metal Gear Solid V that deserve that word since they seem to lack a conclusion and basically seem to be left off in the middle of the story. 

 

Like I said before, I am not concerned about sales with regards to GTA, and all the main GTA titles from III onward were all a major commercial success for their respective times, and they all sold a phenomenal amount of copies. No need to be making comparisons here, it's totally pointless. 

 

Technically yes, V's SP campaign is a finished game according to it's creator, Rockstar themselves, and the rest of the gaming community who see it that way. But it's not really about that, it's about whether it feels finished and complete, that is always going to be a subject matter. And for me personally, V felt unfinished - the under-utilized and wasted map, very short story mission campaign, missing popular features from previous titles, and the lack of side missions/activities relating to crime were the driving factors for me feeling this way about the game. All that matters is how I feel about the game, not about whether it's technically finished or not. Conclusion ? I personally feel it is an unfinished game. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Official General

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Official General said:

 

Like I said before, I am not concerned about sales with regards to GTA, and all the main GTA titles from III onward were all a major commercial success for their respective times, and they all sold a phenomenal amount of copies. No need to be making comparisons here, it's totally pointless. 

 

Technically yes, V's SP campaign is a finished game according to it's creator, Rockstar themselves, and the rest of the gaming community who see it that way. But it's not really about that, it's about whether it feels finished and complete, that is always going to be a subject matter. And for me personally, V felt unfinished - the under-utilized and wasted map, very short story mission campaign, missing popular features from previous titles, and the lack of side missions/activities relating to crime were the driving factors for me feeling this way about the game. All that matters is how I feel about the game, not about whether it's technically finished or not. Conclusion ? I personally feel it is an unfinished game. 

 

 

 

 

 

*Sigh*

 

We are never gonna agree with each other when it comes to the two HD era games(at least we have a similar opinion when it comes to SA) but remember that this isn't a topic about the quality in V. We can like/dislike certain things but we cannot ignore facts. Nobody called IV an unfinished game when it lacked certain elements from SA because it wasn't. Once again I will never understand why people use a different logic when it comes to V. If we use the same logic like some people in this thread GTA III, VC, IV can be considered unfinished as well. V always goes under some special treatment when it comes to logic while IV always gets a pass and I don't think it's right to give IV a pass just because it had to start from the ground up if someone is THIS harsh on V. V had it's problems in development too. 

 

But once again your opinion is your opinion. I don't think we're gonna agree on this matter anyway. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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American Venom
32 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

*Sigh*

 

We are never gonna agree with each other when it comes to the two HD era games(at least we have a similar opinion when it comes to SA) but remember that this isn't a topic about the quality in V. We can like/dislike certain things but we cannot ignore facts. Nobody called IV an unfinished game when it lacked certain elements from SA because it wasn't. Once again I will never understand why people use a different logic when it comes to V. If we use the same logic like some people in this thread GTA III, VC, IV can be considered unfinished as well. V always goes under some special treatment when it comes to logic while IV always gets a pass and I don't think it's right to give IV a pass just because it had to start from the ground up if someone is THIS harsh on V. V had it's problems in development too. 

 

But once again your opinion is your opinion. I don't think we're gonna agree on this matter anyway. 

GTA IV doesn't really get a free pass. I remember a lot of people whining that R* held back features so they could be sold back in EFLC so they were basically inferrring it was unfinished. There's always this view that GTA V gets mistreated and GTA IV doesn't just because people hold it in higher regard than it was in 2008, but I still see a lot of negativity hurled GTA IV's way even now honestly.

 

Speaking from experience with OG if we turned the clock back 10 years I'm pretty sure he'd of said something similar about GTA IV like he is with GTA V. As harsh as it may sound it's still a reasonable view to have. He acknowledges it isn't technically unfinished, but the "feeling" he personally feels is something that can't be easily disputed.

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Official General
22 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

*Sigh*

 

We are never gonna agree with each other when it comes to the two HD era games(at least we have a similar opinion when it comes to SA) but remember that this isn't a topic about the quality in V. We can like/dislike certain things but we cannot ignore facts. Nobody called IV an unfinished game when it lacked certain elements from SA because it wasn't. Once again I will never understand why people use a different logic when it comes to V. If we use the same logic like some people in this thread GTA III, VC, IV can be considered unfinished as well. V always goes under some special treatment when it comes to logic while IV always gets a pass and I don't think it's right to give IV a pass just because it had to start from the ground up if someone is THIS harsh on V. V had it's problems in development too. 

 

But once again your opinion is your opinion. I don't think we're gonna agree on this matter anyway. 

 

Like Miami stated earlier, IV certainly did not get a free pass. IV got a lot of criticism on this forum and in the gaming community in general, going back around 10 years ago. I used to heavily criticise IV as an unfinished game myself, and to some small extent, I still think it feels that way, but not as much I felt before. IV was certainly missing a significant amount of popular GTA features that really should have been included, and believe me I pointed that out many times. However IV redeemed itself with because....

 

* I played through IV again, and I realised I had overlooked certain features or content that were very much to my taste that I found enjoyable and interesting. Stuff like drug deliveries, car thefts for cash, vigilante, random encounters, and armed back up to assist you. The discovery of this handful but hugely entertaining bunch of crime-related side missions very much enhanced my opinion of the game and revitalized my desire to keep playing it.

 

* Another playthrough of IV made me realise that it's storyline missions were truly incredible to play and it is much better experience when you fully understand the whole plot. Storyline in GTA is VERY important to me, it was one of the main reasons why I enjoy playing the games in the series, and IV scored amazingly high in this area. I loved the dealings and conflict with all kinds of gangs and organized crime groups, the double-crossing, the alliances, the beefs, the hits etc, it was all engrossing stuff. And Three Leaf Clover for me still ranks as the best heist mission in any GTA game. 

 

* The Episodes greatly added the original IV game. The stuff seen in EFLC made up for a lot of things that were missing in IV, stuff like Drug Wars, Gang Wars, Club Management, Cage Fighting, were all explosive fun, and the lively nightclub interiors in TBOGT was great too. 

 

In short, IV eventually clawed it's way back into my good books with what was already in the game that later became newly discovered and further enhanced with EFLC, so now to me IV feels more like a 'complete game'. V simply did not build significantly enough on it's SP experience for me to feel like it was a much more complete game, so to me it still feels unfinished. 

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American Venom
1 hour ago, Official General said:

Like Miami stated earlier, IV certainly did not get a free pass. IV got a lot of criticism on this forum and in the gaming community in general, going back around 10 years ago. I used to heavily criticise IV as an unfinished game myself, and to some small extent, I still think it feels that way, but not as much I felt before. IV was certainly missing a significant amount of popular GTA features that really should have been included, and believe me I pointed that out many times. However IV redeemed itself with because....

 

* I played through IV again, and I realised I had overlooked certain features or content that were very much to my taste that I found enjoyable and interesting. Stuff like drug deliveries, car thefts for cash, vigilante, random encounters, and armed back up to assist you. The discovery of this handful but hugely entertaining bunch of crime-related side missions very much enhanced my opinion of the game and revitalized my desire to keep playing it.

 

* Another playthrough of IV made me realise that it's storyline missions were truly incredible to play and it is much better experience when you fully understand the whole plot. Storyline in GTA is VERY important to me, it was one of the main reasons why I enjoy playing the games in the series, and IV scored amazingly high in this area. I loved the dealings and conflict with all kinds of gangs and organized crime groups, the double-crossing, the alliances, the beefs, the hits etc, it was all engrossing stuff. And Three Leaf Clover for me still ranks as the best heist mission in any GTA game. 

 

* The Episodes greatly added the original IV game. The stuff seen in EFLC made up for a lot of things that were missing in IV, stuff like Drug Wars, Gang Wars, Club Management, Cage Fighting, were all explosive fun, and the lively nightclub interiors in TBOGT was great too. 

 

In short, IV eventually clawed it's way back into my good books with what was already in the game that later became newly discovered and further enhanced with EFLC, so now to me IV feels more like a 'complete game'. V simply did not build significantly enough on it's SP experience for me to feel like it was a much more complete game, so to me it still feels unfinished. 

This is why I feel GTA V needed DLC. For guys like you who weren't entirely satisfied with the base GTA IV game, EFLC done alot help you to see how great GTA IV was/is that perhaps wasn't immediately obvious the first time you played it because of the things you found disappointing and I can perfectly understand why you'd feel that way.

 

Call me crazy, but I don't think GTA V will see a turn around like GTA IV.  Any opportunity to release DLC to rekindle peoples' interest passed along time ago when R* made it clear their attention would be focused on GTAO. It's not to say R* released EFLC out of desperation to get back into peoples' good graces because it was always planned whether GTA IV got showered in praise, but it was convenient timing.

 

It's always annoyed me when people say GTA IV fans are bandwagoners that only started praising it because of GTA V, but I really think EFLC done more than GTA V's own failings. I noticed the shift a couple of years after GTA IV's release. GTA V could've had the same benefit if R* went ahead with the DLC they were planning instead of dropping it to focus on GTAO further. Mayber there wouldn't be as many people still back handing it some 5 and half years later.

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cjisgangsta32

i agree i mean i love gta 5 story but the game did feel rushed no single player dlc and so many online real world money purchases   it was still fun but thats all i got to say i rate gta 5 a 7.9 of 10

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TheSantader25

When we talk about IV I mostly mean the vanilla game. 

 

But I have to say that I played TBOGT more than IV which is insane. But PAYING more money for something that should have been in the game for the first place isn't a way I can forgive it. 

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gtafaninwest

Unfinished and stupidly scripted to the extreme.

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American Venom
37 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

When we talk about IV I mostly mean the vanilla game. 

 

But I have to say that I played TBOGT more than IV which is insane. But PAYING more money for something that should have been in the game for the first place isn't a way I can forgive it. 

Atleast with EFLC it added new protagonists, stories, side missions etc and it was a fair price tor such substantial DLC. In GTA V though if you want to experience the game in first person, mess around with the director mode, have access to vehicles like the Duke O Death etc then you have to pay full retail price for current gen version and in some cases you had to have owned the last gen version in order to get some of these features.

 

That's pretty stingy if you ask me.

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Miamivicecity said:

Atleast with EFLC it added new protagonists, stories, side missions etc and it was a fair price tor such substantial DLC. In GTA V though if you want to experience the game in first person, mess around with the director mode, have access to vehicles like the Duke O Death etc then you have to pay full retail price for current gen version and in some cases you had to have owned the last gen version in order to get some of these features.

 

That's pretty stingy if you ask me.

I never said what V did is alright. The thing is all R* did with IV and V was just cutting features out to make more money with EFLC and GTA ONLINE(and triple dipping) . I don't want to be this harsh I'm sorry but it's just what it feels like to me sometimes.

 

I miss the old days when we could pay 60$ and get a full product. No DLC, No people bitching about not having DLCs and no Online live services. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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American Venom
1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

I miss the old days when we could pay 60$ and get a full product. No DLC, No people bitching about not having DLCs and no Online live services. 

I'm an old school gamer myself and would love nothing more than for developers to ship games in full like how it used to be 20 years ago, but I don't mind DLC like EFLC that feels like it exists to compliment the story already established. EFLC is one of those rare examples I feel of DLC that puts its fans before money. 

 

i understand how frustrating it would've been at the time to fork out extra money for features you feel should've been in GTA IV itself and this is a fair point, but I have to commend R* doing it at a time before developers turned into money hungry corporate machines. Nowadays the asking price for EFLC back then would be lucky to get a few vehicles, weapons in most games now. Not to mention how microtransactions have become a worry trend even in full priced AAA games.

 

I know this is probably just me rambling on a bit, but just my 2 cents.

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Bryce Montrose

I hate DLC, as if the vanilla game was bland, so it must be supported by DLC, the full game is much better

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Official General
9 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

When we talk about IV I mostly mean the vanilla game. 

 

But I have to say that I played TBOGT more than IV which is insane. But PAYING more money for something that should have been in the game for the first place isn't a way I can forgive it. 

If GTA V had a story SP and full map expansion (with 2 more cities, SF and LV)), I'd gladly pay £100 (or $100 in your currency) for it. V has the potential to launch itself back in many of it's critics good books with DLC and expansions for SP, but it's not looking likely. 

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Official General said:

If GTA V had a story SP and full map expansion (with 2 more cities, SF and LV)), I'd gladly pay £100 (or $100 in your currency) for it. V has the potential to launch itself back in many of it's critics good books with DLC and expansions for SP, but it's not looking likely. 

I'm not a fan of DLCs. I remember when they first made their way into the gaming community they were hated like microtransactions and lootboxes are now. Many accepted them and even considered them as a positive thing over time but I haven't changed my opinion about it Since it mostly makes the dev to cut things out from the main game to sell for more money as a DLC. Barely I've seen a DLC as actually an "add on" instead of something that just "completes" the game. "Undead Nightmare" was a rare example of how DLCs should be done and you barely see them like that right now. If a DLC actually could make you change your opinion about a game good for you but I always judge and rate DLCs separately from games. 

 

I treated EFLC as a different game because I "paid" for it. It couldn't help me rate IV higher because this is just another product I'm paying for and therefore should be rated separately. What I rate or criticize is the content that I got for the 60$ I paid for. 

 

It's easy to say V "needed" a DLC to fix it's flaws but if it even DID have one It wouldn't make me forgive it because it already had these flaws in the initial product. 

 

A DLC with SF and LV could easily be another game. I hope VI takes place there. 

 

 

Edited by TheSantader25

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