Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!   (91,922 visits to this link)

    2. News

    1. GTA Online

      1. Find Lobbies & Players
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Vehicles
      4. Content Creator
      5. Help & Support
    2. Crews

      1. Events
      2. Recruitment
    1. Grand Theft Auto Series

    2. GTA Next

    3. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    4. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA Mods
    5. GTA Chinatown Wars

    6. GTA Vice City Stories

    7. GTA Liberty City Stories

    8. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    9. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    10. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    11. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    12. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

    2. Red Dead Redemption

    3. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. Forum Support

    2. Site Suggestions

Osho

Why people dislike / hate Niko Bellic

Recommended Posts

Osho

No character is perfect and never will be, and based on this fundamental thought, it inspired and made me also curious to know what makes Niko Bellic unlikeable, including the reasons, if any, who largely hated his character, may be frustrated at some point to continue with his story or had a negative impact from the gameplay standpoint, etcetera..

 

I hope this thread doesn't get locked and respect and tolerance will be maintained towards the views expressed to provide a more inviting environment for a good discussion :)

 

So, let's begin this discussion by sharing your thoughts freely..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeMyth

Some people say he b*tched too much, but at least he didn't just whine and actually dealt with it. Unlike some other protags, even if he whined about something he always dealt with it. Unlike Michael who towards the end of V is just a f*cking pushover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhillBellic

Because they Hate Bowling.

 

Sh*t, that's Roman's shtick.

 

Seriously, I guess they weren't ready for such a Complex Character with such a Rich Backstory, and Moral Standings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Osho

I hesitate to say this, but he was wayy too boring as a character, partially because the story felt a unnecessarily dragged out with repetitive missions but largely due to the number of constant complaints and moaning, which created the dissonance in the storyline started to let my interest down more than any previous GTA. It was also way too serious in comparison to the GTA's I have had played so far, and honestly, stories never appealed to me but the way Rockstar narrated them with plenty of interesting and fun elements made me return for it, unlike Niko's story... ufff!

I still can't gather enough motivation to go through his long story despite having some very good parts attached with his narrative.

I didn't even get the feeling of freedom from the gameplay standpoint when "playing" his story missions with the changes and problems introduced in comparison to the previous games to overlook the least interesting parts associated with his narrative and their repetitive nature.

There are many other minor issues that I expect others will probably explain and cover them in a much better way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Algonquin Assassin

I guess people don't like Niko because he kind of says what he feels which they call "whining". No character's perfect, but Niko's the best protagonist in the series to me simply because he doesn't feel superhuman and shows a spine.

 

John Marston is the only other protagonist R* have made that has the level of characterisation Niko does IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhillBellic

I guess people don't like Niko because he kind of says what he feels which they call "whining". No character's perfect, but Niko's the best protagonist in the series to me simply because he doesn't feel superhuman and shows a spine.

 

John Narstin is the only other protagonist R* have made that has the level of characterisation Niko does IMO.

John 'Narstin'?

 

Damn you, Autocorrect!

 

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UshaB

Wait, people dislike Niko? That's a thing?

 

If there is one thing I hate it's, why did Niko leave the f*cking fingerless gloves in the suitcase!!!! WTF NIKO!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
slimeball supreme

He forgot to bring his fingerless gloves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spider91

I hesitate to say this, but he was wayy too boring as a character, partially because the story felt a unnecessarily dragged out with repetitive missions but largely due to the number of constant complaints and moaning, which created the dissonance in the storyline started to let my interest down more than any previous GTA. It was also way too serious in comparison to the GTA's I have had played so far, and honestly, stories never appealed to me but the way Rockstar narrated them with plenty of interesting and fun elements made me return for it, unlike Niko's story... ufff!

I still can't gather enough motivation to go through his long story despite having some very good parts attached with his narrative.

I didn't even get the feeling of freedom from the gameplay standpoint when "playing" his story missions with the changes and problems introduced in comparison to the previous games to overlook the least interesting parts associated with his narrative and their repetitive nature.

There are many other minor issues that I expect others will probably explain and cover them in a much better way.

 

I'm sorry, but people say stuff like this when they're watching The Green Mile or smth, at the age of 8 :lol::whistle: Also, story and characters =/= gameplay.

 

I guess people don't like Niko because he kind of says what he feels which they call "whining".

 

I agree with you :/ it's kinda sad seeing people treat sincerity that way.

 

Speaking about John Marston, I remember reading the preview of GTA V by Game Informer, and Dan Houser even said there that he thinks of John and Niko as very strong characters :) He said, it would've been hard to surpass them for a while, so with GTA V they decided to do something different. Hopefully, we'll see characters like them in the future.

 

Returning to the subject of this topic, I don't think I've ever seen any hate on Niko, honestly... People generally like him.

Edited by spider91

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Osho

I'm sorry, but people say stuff like this when they're watching The Green Mile or smth, at the age of 8 :lol::whistle:

No problem. Its nothing new, many are used to this typical IV fanboy welcome in this section, bringing up people's age for projecting themselves so superior.

I don't think I've ever seen any hate on Niko, honestly... People generally like him.

Well, there's a difference between thinking and believing, and there are actually far more people than you could even imagine, that consider Niko Bellic as the most unlikeable character because.. reasons, which if every kiddo like you can handle it, then others will be able to speak more freely, without being seen as some 8 year old.

 

Also, story and characters =/= gameplay.

But both can be unbearable and/even unlikeable too. Its not always about the distinction between them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
slimeball supreme

I have a feeling this thread was made for all the wrong reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Algonquin Assassin

Even though this is a fairly bold call maybe some people don't like Niko because at the time he was the first non-American GTA protagonist R* had created and they weren't entirely comfortable playing as someone from a poor Eastern European background? Just a thought.

 

Anyway throughout the story he often shared cynical views when he came to America looking for a better life and when he got there it wasnt anything like Roman had touted.

 

This is what I believe people interpret as "whining" yet to me this is what makes Niko so interesting. He's an excellent reader of his surroundings and often critiques in order to understand his circumstances/predicaments rather than just rolling with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhillBellic

Even though this is a fairly bold call maybe some people don't like Niko because at the time he was the first non-American GTA protagonist R* had created and they weren't entirely comfortable playing as someone from a poor Eastern European background? Just a thought.

 

Anyway throughout the story he often shared cynical views when he came to America looking for a better life and when he got there it wasnt anything like Roman had touted.

 

This is what I believe people interpret as "whining" yet to me this is what makes Niko so interesting. He's an excellent reader of his surroundings and often critiques in order to understand his circumstances/predicaments rather than just rolling with it.

Much the same was said about Carl Johnson. Some people didn't like playing as an African American Gang Banger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Osho

I have yet to see his background being an issue for many. He is mainly an immigrant, regardless of his background, and the plot still plays out in the similar GTA III style of violence and crime set in an American [ LC ] setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sentinel Driver

He is supposed to be serbian but his serbian language pronounciation fails

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Son of Zeus

He's quite dull and I expected a hardened war veteran to whine less. The poorly done accent by Hollick didn't exactly help matters. There's also his 'if it payzz' attitude despite having a ton of money which isn't going anywhere. He also has many hypocritical moments, one which had something to do with Faustin which I can't recall. IV is a shining example of ludonarrative dissonance (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludonarrative), which makes Niko's character kind of pointless. I ran over a ton of people on my way to meet Darko Brevic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
American Viking

Great topic! Just the other day I ran into a Trevor fanboy on Youtube who utterly despised Niko. This person wouldn't give Niko any credit for anything whatsoever, but judging by his incorrect grammar and use of language, I'd reckon he was about 12 and just couldn't comprehend anything other than a simplistic meth head who kills everybody. Anyway, I think Niko is just the scapegoat for people who didn't like GTA IV for whatever reason. For me personally, Niko never really gave me anything to dislike. I never felt he whined too much, I never thought he was a hypocrite or anything else people often pin on him. I'm not saying he was without flaw...but his flaws weren't evident to me. In fact, the only thing I would change about his character, is I would have a person with an authentic Serbian accent do his voice just to add that much more authenticity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Deadite

....IV is a shining example of ludonarrative dissonance (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludonarrative), which makes Niko's character kind of pointless. I ran over a ton of people on my way to meet Darko Brevic.

Lol

 

 

This applies to any gta and protag but Claude and Trevor, what are you going about?

Edited by Midnight Hitman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlackSnow176

Why would anybody dislike Niko? :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Son of Zeus

 

....IV is a shining example of ludonarrative dissonance (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludonarrative), which makes Niko's character kind of pointless. I ran over a ton of people on my way to meet Darko Brevic.

Lol

 

 

This applies to any gta and protag but Claude and Trevor, what are you going about?

Not really. It's more pronounced in Niko's case since IV is supposed to be more grounded. Niko mentions he wants to change, but the gameplay contradicts it. Tommy never says anything like that. CJ said it a bit but is doesn't matter since SA clearly wasn't grounded. I'm not sure what you're on about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Osho

Lol

This applies to any gta and protag but Claude and Trevor, what are you going about?

Who said it doesn't apply in any GTA?

 

In prev. GTA's the dissonance was there but not as much as in IV making it hard to overlook. You can find several articles on this, and many regard GTA IV to be the first GTA where this issue became much more visible and very obvious.

Edited by Osho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Deadite

Not really. It's more pronounced in Niko's case since IV is supposed to be more grounded. Niko mentions he wants to change, but the gameplay contradicts it...

So...how a character that doesn't contradict himself in that regard should be?

An asshole like Trevor or a blank slate like Claude?

Because is impossible to make a likeable character like this in a gta game , why even bother giving someone an ounce of humanity if the next minute you are killing peds for fun in freeroam?

 

....CJ said it a bit but is doesn't matter since SA clearly wasn't grounded. I'm not sure what you're on about.

Actually, it does, CJ rescued a girl from a building on fire and seemed reluctant to kill Madd Dogg's manager, even though he killed enough ballas to fill the great canyon and my in case, a lot of peds for fun in free roam, worst because the story contradicts his attempts at being a merciful guy or whatever, but CJesus Christ forbids someone criticize SA because it was wacky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Osho

 

Not really. It's more pronounced in Niko's case since IV is supposed to be more grounded. Niko mentions he wants to change, but the gameplay contradicts it...

So...how a character that doesn't contradict himself in that regard should be?

Because is impossible to make a likeable character like this in a gta game , why even bother giving someone an ounce of humanity if the next minute you are killing peds for fun in freeroam?.

You answered the reason yourself.

Previous GTAs were not more heavily narrative driven to the point that Rockstar made any special attempt to structure the missions, the activities and other free roam aspects to go with the narrative, nor the character's personality.

It wasn't popular simply on the strengths of its narrative. This is so obvious for any one who has played PS2 GTA's.

But with GTA IV Rockstar adopted a new direction for more narrative driven character with a stronger personality, and thus there's far more and obvious gameplay and story dissonance.

To make the narrative seem more believable and in-character as much as possible, they made so many changes in terms of sandbox potential by taking too much away that the sandbox feels empty outside the story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HalfOfAKebab

If there is one thing I hate it's, why did Niko leave the f*cking fingerless gloves in the suitcase!!!! WTF NIKO!

 

He forgot to bring his fingerless gloves.

 

What is this? I don't understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spider91

I believe, ludonarrative dissonance is essentially in people' heads. And it finishes at the same time it starts.

 

If you love and interested in game's story and its characters, even killing pedestrians with rpg won't change your way of thinking of that story and those characters. You're assuming the role of some particular character when you go through the story, and when you want just to have fun, you're stepping away from this role and just having fun. And when you're ready to continue your journey through the story, you assume the role of that character again.

 

If you don't care about the story and its characters and can't relate to them, and you just want to test a physics engine, then there's no ludonarrative dissonance here either, because the story and the characters don't matter for you anyway.

 

If people really cared about that dissonance much, there wouldn't be any good narrative-driven games with normal characters. Pursuing of resolving ludonarrative dissonance imposes serious restrictions on writing a story. If a narrative-driven game with such story and a rich and, importantly, justified level of freedom was created, chances are, we would end up with shallow, unbalanced plot and inconsistent characters, which would serve as a counterweight to that freedom. Does it remind you of anything?

 

Good story with grounded characters won't get in the way of GTA's freedom. With IV, players wanted more diverse missions and features, that's all, and it's perfectly understandable. But story and characters can avoid conflict with that, for sure. I believe you can create something that will satisfy both groups of people, those who wants a good story and those who wants an interesting gameplay. But thinking of some dissonance at the same time is simply ridiculous :r*:

Edited by spider91

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lol232

Because their opinion is sh*t and that's a fact.

 

Jokes aside, usually people who dislike him never paid too much attention and/or it was SA fanboy butthurt after IV's release that influenced that. Also, Midnight Hitman made is completely right about the likable part.

Edited by lol232

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cheatz/Trickz

It was also way too serious in comparison to the GTA's I have had played so far, and honestly, stories never appealed to me but the way Rockstar narrated them with plenty of interesting and fun elements made me return for it, unlike Niko's story.

Niko is probably the most popular protagonist in the series so I don't know why you chose to name this topic that.

 

If you don't care for stories, then I wouldn't expect you to like Niko that much, especially considering his is dark and serious. You preferred the gamey nature of the previous games so it's obvious you'd dislike IV to an extent.

 

However, since I love stories I also love how IV's gameplay is more grounded, i'm glad that the crazy factor was reduced because it made the game much more immersive.

 

As for the dissonance thing, spider is spot on. What you do outside the story is just you having fun as a player. You can choose to play in a way that fits, or not. In IV, hospital massacres were a common pastime but Niko wouldn't do that. I've had Michael kill all his family in V but I know it's just a break from reality and the story.

Edited by Cheatz_N_Trickz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
slimeball supreme

 

If there is one thing I hate it's, why did Niko leave the f*cking fingerless gloves in the suitcase!!!! WTF NIKO!

 

He forgot to bring his fingerless gloves.

 

What is this? I don't understand.

RBnjz67.jpg

 

This gloves were in pretty much every pre-release screenshot and trailer - and they don't make it into the final game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhillBellic

Funny thing is that the Data/Model is still in the Game. It would be good to be able to use them without the need to Mod it in, or use a Trainer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Osho

I believe, ludonarrative dissonance is essentially in people' heads. And it finishes at the same time it starts.

No. Its not that simple as you think. You sound like "yea dissonance is there but who gives a sh*t". This "dissonance" is essentially always in the heads of many "IV fans" as well as they're the biggest critic of SAs story, but now when several critics are pointing out by high lighting this more strongly, you're choosing to side with what suits your narrative, trying to deflect the criticism and not presenting any strong argument to counter those critics, who believe that dissonance has created far more important consequences on players enjoyment THIS TIME which essentially separates IV from its predecessors.

 

I mean, IV is a classic example of how "open world" games with their tightly focused narrative and sandbox presentation with the idea of everything centering around the character proves to be a disastrous thing to the player's freedom and agency in them.

 

If it was Mafia or some other story driven game who didn't try to sell me the sandbox after its predecessors successful and highly popular titles, just like SA and VC, then I wouldn't give a sh*t either.

Like Son Of Zeus rightly pointed out, Rockstar has put so much emphasis on the narrative, that the dissonance is all the way, making Niko's character kind of pointless in the end.

 

Its like playing a cinematic movie where you're told how you should play and move through each mission. But once you're done watching the movie you have to leave the theatre and move on..

 

That's the impression I'm getting from your response, too, that all GTA IV has to offer as a "sandbox" title is to simply waste the time outside the story testing physics engine and driving around..I mean, that's ridiculous, to say the least.

 

I get the point that a well written story is a big plus, but do not agree with the arguments that GTA's greatest strength is its story, to the point that we start forgetting that we are playing a video game.

 

When you have such a detailed sandbox world, you cannot overlook the fact that there's hardly anything interesting to do, and furthermore, the issues connected with the sandbox presentation outside the story itself.

 

Look at Far Cry 2 and the developers brilliant approach in storytelling. Its far more believable, in-character and realistic than the Niko Bellic.

You guys are talking as if you have never experienced any game outside brand Rockstar.

 

There are many games who handle storytelling a LOT better than GTA IV without sacrificing player's agency and offer far more choices to give weight to the narrative for a meaningful progression.

 

Niko Bellic is awesome in cut scenes, but as a "playable" character is an absolute bore with lots of limiting qualities that essentially does a massive disservice to the tag "sandbox" in comparison to not just its predecessors, but even its competitors.

 

Maybe for others the term "sandbox" starts and finishes with the story, and are fine enjoying all the details for the rest of the time outside it.

 

But there are many who expect more from a sandbox title like GTA, and DO not justify the GTA IV approach of just shoving an Oscar worthy story down our throats, in the name of bringing a mature change and a new direction.

 

Furthermore, many side activities outside the story are just more or less an old vine in a new bottle, as I have already experienced them in previous GTAs. Nothing significant.

 

Basically, IVs strengths in my opinion, are on technical grounds ONLY, including the story; which is subjective, but hardly anything significant in gameplay, rather it took away a lot.

As a result, Niko becomes the most unlikeable out of all the protagonists, for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • 3 Users Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 3 Guests

×

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.