Too much details, too few interiors

[Osho]

Interiors do contribute to the gameplay. Its up to the developers to raise the bar on the same level they did with the details this time.

Having detailed interiors isn't enough, but makes them interesting is, the scale of interactions

[XenoxX]

Interiors do contribute to the gameplay. Its up to the developers to raise the bar on the same level they did with the details this time.

Having detailed interiors isn't enough, but makes them interesting is, the scale of interactions

Don't you think that robable stores are in the quite sense gameplay intensive interiors?

Because I do, almost all interiors serve at least some sort of gameplay use in GTA V, for example you can play Darts in the bar, see your family and interact with them at Michaels house, have chop and health packs at Franklins house,

[Algonquin Assassin]

I miss interiors for the airports. Both SA and VC/VCS had them and I always enjoyed exploring them. Shame it wasn't in IV and V.

 

SA didn't have an airport interior. Only VC/VCS. Just clearing that up.

[XenoxX]

 

I miss interiors for the airports. Both SA and VC/VCS had them and I always enjoyed exploring them. Shame it wasn't in IV and V.

SA didn't have an airport interior. Only VC/VCS. Just clearing that up.

 

It had the one from the intro scene, it was locked off though.

[Osho]

No.

That's not enough, nor interesting , and for the "most part" nothing new that I haven't interacted or experienced before, besides they have closed down many interiors as well.

So, it does not appear to me as "raising the bar"

[Algonquin Assassin]

 

 

I miss interiors for the airports. Both SA and VC/VCS had them and I always enjoyed exploring them. Shame it wasn't in IV and V.

 

SA didn't have an airport interior. Only VC/VCS. Just clearing that up.

 

It had the one from the intro scene, it was locked off though.

Somehow that slipped my mind lol, but it doesn't have an airport interior that can be freely explored like in VC and VCS.

 

Speaking of which that should make a return also.

[ChiroVette]

I'll take the details over the interiors. I love interiors and wish we could have more, but I don't find my gaming suffers due to there being only a few of them.

 

 

I know a lot of GTA fans would disagree with me on this, but I have never been a big fan of interiors in sandbox games. I find them, comparatively speaking, to be limited and cramped and having very little gameplay associated with them. I know in San Andreas, you could play Nineties videogames (Degenatron) and play little mini games in some bars, and I know GTA IV and V really stepped this up with things like bowling, darts, pool, and so on. But no matter how well developed interiors are in a sandbox game, I always find that I spend very little time in them because I prefer the wide open spaces of the outdoor world, where all the real gameplay stuff takes place.

 

I like some of the missions that bring you into closed quarters to fight, like some of V's heists, A Long Stretch, and others. But personally, I have never once thought to myself, "Gee, I wonder if I can get back to that warehouse from A Long Stretch and just look around." or "Wow, I wish I could get back into the morgue in the FIB building where Steve sends an unconscious Michael."

 

Not saying there shouldn't be more interiors. I just personally don't feel the same allure as many others do.

[Algonquin Assassin]

It all comes down to what you prefer. I mean it's not like I spend all of my time inside of them, but ever since VC I've always felt like they've added more and more to the game worlds.

 

I think it might have been a pre-release screenshot of inside the Ocean Beach Hotel (can't quite remember exactly), but since that time interiors have been somewhat of a fascination to me and I always look forward to seeing what R* can come up with.

[ChiroVette]

It all comes down to what you prefer. I mean it's not like I spend all of my time inside of them, but ever since VC I've always felt like they've added more and more to the game worlds.

 

I think it might have been a pre-release screenshot of inside the Ocean Beach Hotel (can't quite remember exactly), but since that time interiors have been somewhat of a fascination to me and I always look forward to seeing what R* can come up with.

 

No, I totally get it.

 

I may not agree with every single thing that people say, want, or dislike about a game like GTA V or about features such as interiors, but that doesn't mean I don't see the allure or where people are coming from. Look at things like the realism in IV.

 

I may hate it with a bloody passion, BUT you won't catch me attacking it. Why? Because even though I don't enjoy it, I get it. To most of us, gaming is more than just fun gameplay. It is pretending to be in the world. Now to some people, the more realistic a game is, the more immersed they become. Some people find things like the crazy driving physics in V, for example, to be a distraction, and they want it to feel like they are driving a real car, so they prefer IV. I think the same is true for interiors. A lot of people feel like if they cannot enter a lot of buildings, that all those stores and beautifully crafted edifices are simply "empty" to them and devoid of fun. So it becomes an issue of entering lots of buildings for these folks probably makes the world feel more alive and real to them.

 

Like I said, I get it! This isn't me arguing against more interiors. I have no particular feeling about them one way or the other. But if adding a sh*t-ton of interiors increases the joy of the game for many of my fellow gamers, then I say go for it! Let them add a thousand interiors for all I care. Its not going to hurt my enjoyment of the game one iota.

Edited January 7, 2016 by ChiroVette

[Osho]

Vice city really stands out in the interiors department. I wished more from Rockstar in this regard from their future titles. The maps got bigger, the worlds got stunning but the interiors have started to fail to impress. Moreover in V some accessible areas come with bullsh*t realism in the form of restrictions trying to take away the ability to either shoot or receive wanted stars if you dare to be creative the way you desire to play.

The amount of restrictions placed in order to structure the open world freedom according to how the designers want us to play is also a big downgrade over what I f*ckin enjoyed and had a blast exploring the GTA III and VC maps, be interiors and open world.

Details are average, yet these games appeal to me more than GTA V.

I think it has something to do with the map size.

While I would like bigger maps but Vs scale of size simply failed to impress me, and I always have this constant feeling while playing that how much the game would have benefitted from a smaller map with more interiors and things to do.

[Official General]

 

I'll take the details over the interiors. I love interiors and wish we could have more, but I don't find my gaming suffers due to there being only a few of them.

 

I know a lot of GTA fans would disagree with me on this, but I have never been a big fan of interiors in sandbox games. I find them, comparatively speaking, to be limited and cramped and having very little gameplay associated with them. I know in San Andreas, you could play Nineties videogames (Degenatron) and play little mini games in some bars, and I know GTA IV and V really stepped this up with things like bowling, darts, pool, and so on. But no matter how well developed interiors are in a sandbox game, I always find that I spend very little time in them because I prefer the wide open spaces of the outdoor world, where all the real gameplay stuff takes place.

 

I like some of the missions that bring you into closed quarters to fight, like some of V's heists, A Long Stretch, and others. But personally, I have never once thought to myself, "Gee, I wonder if I can get back to that warehouse from A Long Stretch and just look around." or "Wow, I wish I could get back into the morgue in the FIB building where Steve sends an unconscious Michael."

 

Not saying there shouldn't be more interiors. I just personally don't feel the same allure as many others do.

I'm very much of a similar view to SoL on this. Playing VC for the first time really brought home the great value of interiors to gameplay and immersion within the GTA environment. The city just felt much more alive and interactive knowing I could encounter human life and activity indoors, not just outside in the streets. After VC, interiors was something that I looked forward to a lot in future GTAs, just to see how they could expand and improve upon it. To me, any GTA environment with reduced interiors after VC would have just felt a lot more lifeless, and amazingly and unfortunately, it's V that had this.

 

When playing GTA, I spend a lot of time outdoors and indoors - the balance gives me the ultimate feeling of realisim in my role playing activities while exploring the GTA world. In real life, gangsters aren't just out on the streets engaging in shootouts with rivals, causing havoc, or in wild chases running from police, they spend a great deal of time indoors doing everyday stuff like eating, drinking, socialising, etc - basically enjoying the nice life that the proceeds of their crimes brings them. A gangster is realistically just as likely to encounter enemies indoors in a spot frequented by criminals, be it a club, bar eaterie etc - a perfect opportunity to RP and create intense, close quarter gunfights in an interior. Even seeing patrons in a bar or club running around screaming and shouting at the sound of gunfire just adds greatly to the realisim of the GTA city world - a place where any crazy sh*t can go down, in the streets or in a public building/establishment, nowhere is safe - that feeling in a GTA world is priceless. You need many interiors for stuff like that. And the general feeling of realistic interactivity of course.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Official General

[ChiroVette]

Maybe because I don't really use them all that much, I don't recall a lot of interiors in Vice City, even though I play the game to this day. I know a couple of the safe houses have interiors, particularly the one in Ocean Beach which is a beautiful interior. I know you can go into the airport, Ammunation, tool stores, pizza stores, and all the 15 stores you can rob.

 

Are there more than that?

 

I think you can go into the clothing store in Little Havana to buy the Cuban Gang outfit as well, but I forget.

[Markhayzy]

The little details are what seperates Rockstar from other developers, the gameworlds are so rich people can just wander round admiring the awesomeness of scale and beauty long after they're tired of the storyline. More realistic environments = more immersion.

 

Their games will only get more detailed if anything. R* set standards and will continue to do so

[Osho]

There are many games that offer good amount of details, but more importantly, expanding on other possibilities that compliment the details in giving a much better overall gaming experience.

Rockstar may spend all their energy and time over the microscopic details but that wont help to overshadow their failures or mistakes in other very crucial areas that has no relation with how breathtaking are the details.

[ChiroVette]

There are many games that offer good amount of details, but more importantly, expanding on other possibilities that compliment the details in giving a much better overall gaming experience.

Rockstar may spend all their energy and time over the microscopic details but that wont help to overshadow their failures or mistakes in other very crucial areas that has no relation with how breathtaking are the details.

 

In YOUR opinion.

 

Many of us believe that, while there are some issues with GTA V, most of it Rockstar is on point with AND the game is amazing fun. your continued insistence about Rockstar's "failures and mistakes in other very crucial areas" is only your opinion, and not one shared by the majority of people who have spent over a billion dollars collectively on this game. You really need to learn to create partitions between fact and opinion in your brain. Because while I completely respect anyone who says that this game is not to their liking or who cite bugs that in their opinion are deal-breaking, you do NOT speak for anyone but yourself and a small minority of people. Which is NOT to say that the majority is always right and the small, fractional minority is wrong. Often the minority opinion is the correct one.

 

But I do not, for one second, believe that this is the case with GTA. Clearly there are a ton of people very happy with the game, both online and SP. So there is no need for Rockstar to "overshadow" anything as you are bizarrely asserting.

 

GTA V is not perfect. It has its problems, many of which have been clearly elucidated in this forum. But Rockstar's fanbase is overwhelmingly satisfied with the game, and the media attention has likewise been overwhelmingly positive, with regard to the efficay of Rockstar's development of GTA thus far.

 

No game is perfect. Not even GTA V.

Edited January 7, 2016 by ChiroVette

[SmokesWithCigs]

I had nothing to do but read negativity and complaints so I came here.

[ChiroVette]

I had nothing to do but read negativity and complaints so I came here.

 

lol

[SmokesWithCigs]

 

I'll take the details over the interiors. I love interiors and wish we could have more, but I don't find my gaming suffers due to there being only a few of them.

 

There's more detail in Lester's garment factory that there is in all of Vice City. Having a few really interesting interiors with a lot of detailing is fine for me. While interiors can aid immersion and are great for RP fans, really, there's not much you can do in them other than... just be in them. I'm not a big RP player myself, I play RPGs for that sort of thing, so maybe I'm missing the intrinsic benefits of being able to enter a building and stand around in it for a while. Surely the world outside, where all the cars and vehicles and people are... that's where the games actually happening, right? Not in some dingy little Burger Shot.

 

Though I will admit, I so miss the guy from LC's Burger Shot. Welcome to Burger Shot muh-f*ckarrrr!

Sorry Fuzz, but I'm getting very mixed signals from this post. I mean you say there's not a lot to do inside of interiors, but what do details do beside something to look at?

 

Atleast interiors can have more than one function. Using Burger Shot for example it's not only somewhere to get health, but I've spent countless hours in GTA IV holding up inside dropping cops as they come through the front door. That's more fun IMO than say admiring the fact water drips off the protagonists' clothes in GTA V.

 

Details are nice, but to me interiors do more for gameplay. I would love to see R* do an aquarium, church interior etc. Even the return of a fully functioning shopping mall that's been absent since VC would be grand.

 

Truthfully I think both should complement each other rather than oppose, but for the sake of the thread I choose interiors any day.

 

there are shops , fleeca banks, ls customs garages, 24/7 gas stations and liquor stores all over san andreas also the strip club , the pacific standard bank , the mining tunnel and the underground rail stations and construction areas that serves well as a hold off area for police. interiors serve online better for that purpose or holding off against other players hunting you down.. I would never get in a standoff situation in storymode because it strays from the narrative. the protags can even have stand offs in their safe houses.

interiors in story mode only serve the purpose for exploration all you can do is stand around and look at stuff like the x rated video shops for example. its the same logic as a 5 year old who finds a card board box to play with "look I can go in here" . the star café in gta 4 is a cool interior but what can you do in there besides tip the sax player? it should have at least had a pool table and when you go out on a friend hangout or date it just skips to a cutscene. there are more shops and stores than in gta 4 they replaced all the burger shots and clucking bells with 24/7's that all.

[Official General]

Maybe because I don't really use them all that much, I don't recall a lot of interiors in Vice City, even though I play the game to this day. I know a couple of the safe houses have interiors, particularly the one in Ocean Beach which is a beautiful interior. I know you can go into the airport, Ammunation, tool stores, pizza stores, and all the 15 stores you can rob.

 

Are there more than that?

 

I think you can go into the clothing store in Little Havana to buy the Cuban Gang outfit as well, but I forget.

You've pretty much named most of them, but left out a lot more. There is also the Malibu nightclub, the Pole Position strip club, the Robina Cafe, the donut shop, the police station at Washington Beach, the North Point Mall, AND the interiors of Tommy's businesses. There is even a lighthouse interior too, not that it's of much use, but still. Now along with what you named and what I've added, VC has a very high number of interiors relative to it's map size, so high to the point you feel you can enter and explore almost every main building. The freedom and excitement of exploring such an open-world environment in a video game like VC is immense.

 

@ Smokes

 

That's exactly what annoyed me about V. I wished it had 247s, liquor stores AND the fast food outlets, restaurants, bars, cafes, and nightclubs.

 

In IV you could still play pool in the Homebrew Cafe, which effectively was really a Jamaican bar and not a cafe. In SA I could play pool in bars, dance in nightclubs on dates, enter 247s, go strip clubs, I just miss the variety of interiors of previous GTAs.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Official General

[ChiroVette]

OfficialGeneral, I totally forgot about Northpoint Mall, the Washington Beach Police Station, the businesses interiors (most notably Sunshine Autos), Robinas, and Pole Position.

 

lol this is making me realize its been too long since I played a 100% VC campaign. I think I may be coming due!

 

I am currently going through Just Cause 2 again. I am thinking that maybe its time for me to go through III, VC, and SA yet again, since I just completed GTA V again 100%.

[Official General]

OfficialGeneral, I totally forgot about Northpoint Mall, the Washington Beach Police Station, the businesses interiors (most notably Sunshine Autos), Robinas, and Pole Position.

 

lol this is making me realize its been too long since I played a 100% VC campaign. I think I may be coming due!

 

I am currently going through Just Cause 2 again. I am thinking that maybe its time for me to go through III, VC, and SA yet again, since I just completed GTA V again 100%.

Get it for the ps4 if you play VC or SA again, it would be upscaled to HD. Right now I'm replaying SA on the ps4, the immense variety of interiors in this game just made realise how badly I missed Rockstar's high standards of interaction in previous GTAs. Edited January 7, 2016 by Official General

[ChiroVette]

I am currently going through Just Cause 2 again. I am thinking that maybe its time for me to go through III, VC, and SA yet again, since I just completed GTA V again 100%.

Get it for the ps4 if you play VC or SA again, it would be upscaled to HD. Right now I'm replaying SA on the ps4, the immense variety of interiors in this game just made realise how badly I missed Rockstar's high standards of interaction in previous GTAs.

 

 

You know, mostly I play these games on the PC. How much better can they look on the PS4 with the same engine if I have everything maxed out on the PC?

 

Also, the PC has a few cool mods I like to use, like RealGTA3 for III and a speedometer mod for San Andreas.

[Osho]

In YOUR opinion.

Obviously.

Do you want me to put that in my signature?

Someone who boasts himself to be more intelligent than the rest of the GTA F should easily be able to tell that its "my" point of view, not speaking for anyone else.

02

So there is no need for Rockstar to "overshadow" anything as you are bizarrely asserting.

No. I am saying it wont help in convincing me to overshadow their mistakes or failures. Not implying that Rockstar tends to overshadow their failures or whatever you misunderstood from my response.

02

But Rockstar's fanbase is overwhelmingly satisfied with the game, and the media attention has likewise been overwhelmingly positive, with regard to the efficay of Rockstar's development of GTA thus far.

Yeah. You can speak for R* fanbase, as if its a fact but when I talk about my own personal views you label them as facts without showing any tolerance towards my criticisms, but misinterpret and change them to suit your own rhetoric.

Good going.

You are only fooling whatever fanbase you represent, not every one on GTA F.

02

No game is perfect. Not even GTA V.

Poor defense, and a weak excuse, every fan throws in favour and support of the game.

The point is, the more I grew as a gamer in experience by playing more and better yames over the years, the more I realised how overrated Rockstar is.

[ChiroVette]

 

In YOUR opinion.

Obviously.

Do you want me to put that in my signature?

 

 

Normally I would laugh and say no, but in your case it might serve as a reminder for some much needed humility when you go on your tirades, preaching gloom and doom for the series. You see, the problem with your posts and your overall demeanor is not that you express opinions, or even very strong, emphatic ones. Where you lose any and all credibility is in your penchant to speak as if Rockstar is destroying the franchise in a universal sense.

 

See, that's the difference between you and I. I have some VERY strong and negative opinions about GTA IV, pretty much from top to bottom. But you never would have caught me flying into the GTA forum, before V was released, and speaking as if my opinion represented some end-all, be-all. You would never catch me saying things like:

 

 

 

but that wont help to overshadow their failures or mistakes in other very crucial areas

 

like you did, because I simply DO NOT believe that my opinions about IV represents a universal constant, like you obviously do.

 

Oh and while we're on the subject:

 

 

 

Someone who boasts himself to be more intelligent than the rest of the GTA F

 

Not everyone, just you.

 

lol

 

Seriously, in truth I never once said that I think I am smarter than anyone else. You intuited that based on your bizarre interpretation of my posts. Additionally, when I say things about Rockstar's fanbase overwhelmingly enjoying the game, I speak from the majority of fan support for the games, NOT from my own personal opinion. When a game sells in the billions, while perhaps that is not absolute proof, it is one factor in determining success. Clearly, outside this forum, huge masses of fans are clamoring around GTA games and awaiting the next GTA with salivating anticipation. So at least when I make declarative statements, while yes, they too are my opinion, I have the temerity to base them on something other than how I personally feel about the game itself.

 

You seem to have dubbed yourself Grand Puba over all things good and bad in GTA, and you speak as if you know that Rockstar has failed and will continue to do so as long as they keep making GTA games that do not receive the Osho Seal of Approval.

[Fuzzknuckles]

The wildlife, flowers, trees blowing, bugs buzzing around, the flies flying around, or the rain reflections, don't make the game... lmao!

These are just purely aesthetic and amusing details that bring more immersion to what?

The single most important contrivution to a video game - the gameplay!!!;

If the gameplay itself is disappointing and found lacking then how are these bugs, flies, and trees blowing going to help the game???

Lol..

It shows the priorities are all wrong among certain section of the gamers who always push for more details, the gameplay be damned!

No matter how much I appreciate and love all the details but I will be pushing for more content and gameplay out of my single player experience as the most important expectation from the developers instead of watching them strip away all the things in order to smoothly run all the details and graphical fidelity.

I'd like to point this out as a clear example of Osho refusing to allow someone to have an opinion without feeling the need to call the person wrong, to reject my opinion as incorrect.

 

 

 

It shows the priorities are all wrong among certain section of the gamers who always push for more details, the gameplay be damned!

 

No, I did not say that the gameplay should be abandoned in favour of adding more details, did I? If I did please show me where, instead of making up nonsense so you can push your rhetoric once more.

 

You have jumped to a conclusion and there's literally nothing to back up what you're suggesting I've said.

 

This is why you are such an awful person to have on these boards. You are not discussing, you are just making stuff up in response to genuine discussion and once again trying to suggest that anyone that disagrees with you or what you want is objectively wrong.

 

Please, enough of this now.

 

I want more content. I want more of everything. Just because I don't say it every time I post doesn't mean it isn't the case.

 

My priorities are not wrong. You don't even know what my priorities are. You have imagined them in your head so that you can swing this round in a particular direction when you regurgitate what I've said, incorrectly.

 

If anything, Osho, my priorities might, at most, be different.

 

immersion

ɪˈməːʃ(ə)n/

noun

1. 1.

   the action of immersing someone or something in a liquid.

   "his back was still raw from immersion in the icy Atlantic sea"
2. 2.

   deep mental involvement in something.

   "a week's immersion in the culinary heritage of Puglia"

 

Obviously here I am referring to definition two - a deep mental involvement in something.

 

How do bugs, breeze in the grass etc contribute to the deep mental involvement in something? By simulating the world around you in detail.

 

I understand that you need heavily prescriptive direction from the game to be able to enjoy it. You need missions, you need structure, you need activities. You are not capable of immersing yourself in the world and experiencing the abstracted world, without the structure, without the missions, without the hand-holding. I understand that. Some people are able to walk around the game world and be entertained by it without having to be carrying out carnage or pretending to be a criminal. Some people enjoy being out in that world and just existing within it. AS WELL AS being able to do all the missions and such.

 

The more little details in the world that catch you by surprise or even go unnoticed because you're used to them in real life, the better. It makes the world feel more real.

 

I know that you live in a fantasy world where you feel like you're allowed to be as insulting or condescending as you want but are somehow exempt from this yourself, so perhaps you should try immersing yourself in a bit of reality.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Fuzzknuckles

[..GhosT]

The game has more than enough interiors... theyre just locked, sadly.

[ChiroVette]

 

I'd like to point this out as a clear example of Osho refusing to allow someone to have an opinion without feeling the need to call the person wrong, to reject my opinion as incorrect.

 

 

Fuzzknuckles, this is precisely my point. If you look up the term Straw Man argument in the dictionary, you will see a picture of Osho next to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I did not say that the gameplay should be abandoned in favour of adding more details, did I? If I did please show me where, instead of making up nonsense so you can push your rhetoric once more.

 

You have jumped to a conclusion and there's literally nothing to back up what you're suggesting I've said.

 

This is why you are such an awful person to have on these boards. You are not discussing, you are just making stuff up in response to genuine discussion and once again trying to suggest that anyone that disagrees with you or what you want is objectively wrong.

 

Please, enough of this now.

 

I want more content. I want more of everything. Just because I don't say it every time I post doesn't mean it isn't the case.

 

My priorities are not wrong. You don't even know what my priorities are. You have imagined them in your head so that you can swing this round in a particular direction when you regurgitate what I've said, incorrectly.

 

If anything, Osho, my priorities might, at most, be different.

 

 

I am not so sure he is jumping to conclusions. He is pretty much misrepresenting your position in a surreptitious attempt to manipulate and control the discussion and use an intellectually bankrupt tactic to try and steal a debate-win as he defends his losing position.

 

You know, its funny. I have debated a great many points with a lot of people. I have disagreed with fefenc, SonsOfLiberty, and a great many others. Yet almost ALL of those conversations we all seek to find common ground and sometimes agree to disagree. But there is no doing that with Osho. He is like a dog with your pant-leg in its teeth that refuses to let go. You can't reason with him as he thrashes about, head flailing left and right as he growls and teethes on the fabric. Eventually, you just have to give him a good wack with a rolled-up newspaper and hope that does the trick.

 

Sad but true.

Edited January 7, 2016 by ChiroVette

[Raj The Rager]

What's so bad about a lot of detail?

Edited January 7, 2016 by Chamberman20

[ChiroVette]

What's so bad about a lot of detail?

 

Nothing that I can figure out.

[Official General]

 

 

I am currently going through Just Cause 2 again. I am thinking that maybe its time for me to go through III, VC, and SA yet again, since I just completed GTA V again 100%.

 

Get it for the ps4 if you play VC or SA again, it would be upscaled to HD. Right now I'm replaying SA on the ps4, the immense variety of interiors in this game just made realise how badly I missed Rockstar's high standards of interaction in previous GTAs.

 

You know, mostly I play these games on the PC. How much better can they look on the PS4 with the same engine if I have everything maxed out on the PC?

 

Also, the PC has a few cool mods I like to use, like RealGTA3 for III and a speedometer mod for San Andreas.

Stick to PC then! I was quick to assume you played them on console. I very much envy PC GTA gamers, they get to experience the GTA game of their dreams with all kinds of real good mods. I don't game on PC, I'm a strictly console gamer, secondly I have no time for the modding stuff, barely have enough to time to game that much these days as it is.