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Gay Tony

Gender & Sexuality

Recommended Posts

jpm1

In many ways female masculinity is much more socially accepted than male femininity. Women interested in sports, cars, hunting, etc. and what's traditionally seen as more masculine hobbies are completely accepted and more often a man into cosmetics, pedicures, ballet etc. is made a mockery.

i think this is because in the Bible male homosexuality is clearly condemned (in Ancient testament), while there's nothing (AFAIK) about women homosexuality. and thus is believed to be tolerated for women. since French and American revolutions laws ruling the western socities are based on science logic and common sense, rather than on religious dogmas. and i think it's a good thing, because if not then it's open door to any obscurantism. look at actual daesch, they have no rules, no authority, look at the sick obscurantism that has born (paedophilia promoting, kids assassination, grand age persons killing, war prisoners execution..)

Edited by jpm1

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El Dildo

your take on the story itself is a little bloated... but if she wrote that "all white people are racist" then she's just kind of a dumbass.

good enough reason to fire anyone.

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Clem Fandango

When the left shut down anyone who doesn't agree with them, I guess it's only a matter of time before them and their virtue signalling commercial sponsors start squabbling amongst themselves

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/41127404/loreal-sacks-first-transgender-model-munroe-bergdorf

I'm confused. Who is 'the left' here, the model or the company?

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DEALUX

Companies aren't really necessarily left-leaning. They tend to align with leftists when it is convenient for them (i.e. to avoid bad publicity).

 

 

your take on the story itself is a little bloated... but if she wrote that "all white people are racist" then she's just kind of a dumbass.

good enough reason to fire anyone.

She's a full-on racist or perhaps severely misinformed (but it's tough to distinguish between those two). Edited by ΣΓ

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sivispacem

Companies aren't really necessarily left-leaning.

Most companies, especially large multinationals, are inherently not left leaning. The whole debacle is pretty silly. If people want to use as as a jumping off point to talk about gender identity and political bias then go knock yourself out, but from where I'm sitting it's a nonstory about someone getting fired for saying racist sh*t.

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jpm1

just read a story on facebook of a young transgender dude that commited suicide after his school refused him to use his new name. this is exactly what i was saying few posts away. exact reason why society laws should be made on logic and common sense, and not based on dark religious dogmas

Edited by jpm1

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Eutyphro

She's a full-on racist or perhaps severely misinformed (but it's tough to distinguish between those two).

She's simply repeating the popular ideas from gender studies classes. What she said is becoming the norm on many campuses.

 

Companies aren't really necessarily left-leaning. They tend to align with leftists when it is convenient for them (i.e. to avoid bad publicity).

Companies align with social justice and identity politics, as a commercial tool. Group identity is an irrational aspect of human nature that can be commercially exploited. Companies are profit and not ideologically driven. In some cases, like in the case if google, it can seem like a company is ideologically driven. But google has such a powerful market position that they can make the trade off between competence and reputation.

Edited by Eutyphro

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DEALUX

exact reason why society laws should be made on logic and common sense, and not based on dark religious dogmas

What laws are you talking about specifically? If you're speaking about advocating for legislating the use of gender pronouns then you might want to reconsider if that's what you really want. Also, such laws would not be inherently logical either. "He" and "she" used to have quite specific meanings. Saying that a trans person is a "he" or a "she" is a move based on compassion rather than logic. Merely changing the meaning of the words doesn't change what a woman or a man is.

 

I don't think that we need laws regarding gender pronouns. I don't think that the refusal to use a specific gender pronoun is hate speech (the irony is that the arguments on the other side are more logical, while the ones on the trans activist side are based on compassion but are in some ways pragmatic). If your boss refuses to use your preferred pronoun (of course, we shouldn't invent new ones) that could fall under certain discrimination laws. There is not necessarily a need for new laws in this regard, especially ones that legislate speech. If you start doing that then free speech will eventually evaporate.

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sivispacem

Companies align with social justice and identity politics, as a commercial tool.

Companies don't really align with social justice or identity politics. They just make token gestures that endear them to particular demographics without alienating others. Inherently casting companies as "leftist" is a bit silly given that the ore tenet of most left wing ideology revolves around eradicating them in their current form.

 

Companies are profit and not ideologically driven.

Exactly.

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DEALUX

People sometimes conflate the term leftist with liberal. I think it is true that most big companies (especially tech ones) tend to be run by liberals.

Edited by ΣΓ

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jpm1

some people are born with no biological gender. it's a medical and biology fact. so who can tell what is really a gender. i think your gender is the gender you have in your heart/soul. only you can know what you feel inside. personnally i see the genders a bit like the sky and space. we created a limit for some reason, but in fact there's none. concerning myself, i'm a man, and i never thought for of being transgender. because i love vaginal penetration. this is the only reason. this is how i am, and how i feel happy

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Triple Vacuum Seal

When the left shut down anyone who doesn't agree with them, I guess it's only a matter of time before them and their virtue signalling commercial sponsors start squabbling amongst themselves

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/41127404/loreal-sacks-first-transgender-model-munroe-bergdorf

This post is why the left has so much contempt for ignorant so-called conservatives nowadays. Yet another flaccid deferral to leftism as some lazy attempt at criticizing dogma that actually has nothing to do with the left's socioeconomic agenda.

 

Transgender people are capable of being racists too? Who knew? Even in the most vague terms, this has no link to anti-capitalism whatsoever. Next we'll be blaming tornadoes on leftism.

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sivispacem

People sometimes conflate the term leftist with liberal.

Only ignorant people, typically on the right of the political spectrum. Or by people who really should know better, when they don't really know where to focus their ire, typically followed by convoluted, nonsensical justifications for this conflation.

 

I think it is true that most big companies (especially tech ones) tend to be run by liberals.

I don't think this is even close to true. Tech companies are exceptional in a great many ways, and this is one of them.

 

If you look at the ten largest US companies by market capitalisation, you have five tech giants (Apple, Alphabet, Microsoft, Facebook and Amazon). The other five are JPMorgan Chase (investment bank), Exxon Mobil (oil and petrochemicals), Berkshire Hathaway (holding company with primary interests in industrial engineering, manufacturing, transport and financial services), Johnson&Johnson (pharmaceuticals, medical and consumer goods) and General Electric (holding company with primary interests in aviation engineering, energy, oil and gas technology and electrical).

 

None of those five non-tech giants strike me as being "run by liberals". In fact, all five have donated more to the Republican party than the Democrats in the 2016 cycle, in the case of ExxonMobil by a ratio of 90% to 10%.

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Eutyphro

This post is why the left has so much contempt for ignorant so-called conservatives nowadays. Yet another flaccid deferral to leftism as some lazy attempt at criticizing dogma that actually has nothing to do with the left's socioeconomic agenda.

The left is more than a socioeconomic agenda. There are leftist groups and twitter hordes that intend to harm personally anyone that has said something they don't like. One such group is Sleeping Giants, but it's very common in the petty pc era we live in.

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make total destroy

She's simply repeating the popular ideas from gender studies classes. What she said is becoming the norm on many campuses.

 

 

lmao

 

Why would that be taught in a 'gender studies' class? Would you care to cite some sources that show this is actually taught in 'gender studies' classes?

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Eutyphro

 

She's simply repeating the popular ideas from gender studies classes. What she said is becoming the norm on many campuses.

 

 

lmao

 

Why would that be taught in a 'gender studies' class? Would you care to cite some sources that show this is actually taught in 'gender studies' classes?

You can read her explanation of why she posted this, and it's standard gender studies rhetoric. All white people are racist. All men are misogynistic. That's the sort of thing they say. It's rather standard.

 

You can read this paper, which gives a very longwinded 'no' as answer to the question of whether white people can be not racist. http://education.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190264093.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264093-e-5

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Clem Fandango

I only skimmed it, but it doesn't seem to be answering the question of 'can white people be racist?' at all, rather it's just a summary of critical race and whiteness studies, which as I understand it is just an attempt to shift focus away from victims of racism and their feelings and towards whiteness as a social category and the structures surrounding it.

 

I'm guessing you're just regurgitating what you read on Real Peer Review, which would explain why you're claiming CRWS have anything to do with 'gender studies' (at least you didn't call it 'women's studies' like those dishonest toads). I'm guessing Jordan Peterson must have retweeted it. Google says yes, yes he did.

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Eutyphro

You're wrong. I didn't get it from Jordan Peterson. I also didn't get it from Real Peer Review. It's not a very unique paper anyway. There are hundreds exactly like it.

I also don't get why it would matter if I did get it from RPR or JP. Are those taboo to look at? Should we not look at anything that doesn't conform to your narrow minded dogma? Where do I get the Melchior approved info about neomarxist garbage studies?

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make total destroy

What is 'gender studies' rhetoric? In what way does it relate to her statements?

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Eutyphro

'Gender studies rhetoric' is rhetoric originating in an ideology based on white collective guilt, or male collective guilt, or heterosexual collective guilt, etcetera, where 'Western society is rooted in white supremacy' as Munroe Bergdorf herself puts it. It's a far left regressive identity politics revolving around collective guilt. It's a conspiracy theory, where almost everything is deemed racist or sexist without any need for evidence. Within that system of ideas "all white people are racist" is a rational thing to say. But then again, it's a system of ideas that claims to reject rationality, because rationality is just another tool for sexism and white supremacy.

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Clem Fandango

You're wrong. I didn't get it from Jordan Peterson. I also didn't get it from Real Peer Review. It's not a very unique paper anyway. There are hundreds exactly like it.

I said that because you appeared to pull out a random summary of CRWS as if that is 'proof' that universities are teaching people that whites are always racist, as if reading a tweet is all you know about CRWS.

 

I don't think you got the article from RPR I think you got the idea from them that 'gender studies classes' are the root of everything pomo (or just controversial) in the social sciences and that CRWS is necessarily a pomo affair. For the record, I think RPR are okay, but only if you can tell when they're posting bollocks.

 

 

 

I also don't get why it would matter if I did get it from RPR or JP. Are those taboo to look at?

Jordan Peterson does not have a sophisticated understanding of any of these things, in fact as I said before his understanding of basically all these issues you parrot him on is less sophisticated than your own. You just think he's awesome. You know, since Petersons appearance on Joe Rogan you aren't the only person I know degrading themselves by regurgitating his cookie-cutter VSP horsesh*t when they should know better. He's become the messiah, for some reason.

 

 

 

Should we not look at anything that doesn't conform to your narrow minded dogma?

It's funny because the things you are posting don't even rise to the level of dogma.

 

Of course, none of my views really qualify as dogma, since they have a theoretical basis.

 

 

 

Where do I get the Melchior approved info about neomarxist garbage studies?

'Neomarxist'? Do you mean postmodernism? I was opposing that before it was cool ie before Joe Rogan invited Peterson on.

'Gender studies rhetoric' is rhetoric originating in an ideology based on white collective guilt, or male collective guilt, or heterosexual collective guilt, etcetera, where 'Western society is rooted in white supremacy' as Munroe Bergdorf herself puts it. It's a far left regressive identity politics revolving around collective guilt. It's a conspiracy theory, where almost everything is deemed racist or sexist without any need for evidence. Within that system of ideas "all white people are racist" is a rational thing to say. But then again, it's a system of ideas that claims to reject rationality, because rationality is just another tool for sexism and white supremacy.

Uhh, the article doesn't talk about 'guilt' it talks about structural advantages. Gender studies does the exact opposite of that, it implicates vague disembodied prejudices as being at the root marginalisation.

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.Vooodu.

Gender and Sexuality are social constructs. Anyone who wishes to say otherwise is free to I suppose, but frankly the only important opinion of one's gender and sexuality is one's self and it is only courtesy to accept how someone self identifies, if you can't do that then I suggest some sort of therapy because being upset with how someone else feels in their own mind and body is quite unhealthy. More importantly discrimination in society by public bodies, governments, corporations etc seems to me to be unacceptable in any society that considers itself civilised with a level of seriousness.

 

 

To most people Gender = Sex.

 

Its not about how someone feels.. It about whats between their legs and thats all that matters. Period.

 

 

Thats how it is for me.. You're either female or male. Everything else is bullsh*t. or birth defect. How someone feels doesn't matter.. Unless i feel nuts or muffs the conversation is pointless.

 

FEELINGs don't matter.. SJW culture is cancer.

 

If people what to identify as a the opposite sex and dress and act like it.. Thats their choice.. I don't care. But don't drag me into their fairy tale and its all good.

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Raavi

FEELINGs don't matter..

 

 

Wait. You're basing your whole argument on how you feel about the topic; whilst completely ignoring mountains of evidence and even scientific consensus to the contrary. Yet you say say feelings don't matter?

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.Vooodu.

 

FEELINGs don't matter..

 

 

Wait. You're basing your whole argument on how you feel about the topic; whilst completely ignoring mountains of evidence and even scientific consensus to the contrary. Yet you say say feelings don't matter?

 

Taking my post and reducing into 3 words, and taking it out of context doesn't change the fact that 'how you feel' doesn't change reality.

 

 

 

If i feel like Super Man. Just because i decide to jump off a building and fly doesn't mean thats gonna happen. So going around telling people to call me SUPER MAN because thats how I feel is bullsh*t.

 

 

 

Gender comes down to whats between your legs.. Theres no rules on how to act, how to feel, how to think..how to dress. There never was. But trying to force people to call others by special 'made up' names tor the way people choose to dress and act is bullsh*t..

 

If some fat hairy dude in a wig with purple hair all hoped up on hormone blockers comes running up to me and demanding to call him by some f*cked up SJW gender term.. It ain't gonna happen.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCVRrybYWNE

 

A Thing like this... ^ is bullsh*t.

 

And theres two kinds of people.. Ones that enable it and ones that sit there and say "Yaaa f*ckin right dude'..lol

Edited by .Vooodu.

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Raavi

Taking my post and reducing into 3 words, and taking it out of context doesn't change the fact that 'how you feel' doesn't change reality.

 

Seeing as those 3 words were the meat of your argument, I don't see how it's unfair to boil it down to exactly that.

 

doesn't change the fact that 'how you feel' doesn't change reality.

 

I agree. You feel gender and sex are one and the same, reality says sex is based on the biological differences such as reproductive organs, gender on the other hand is largely dependent on socio-cultural and other external factors, hence why we for example have societies with historically non-binary interpretations of gender like for example the Hijara in India or two-spirited in native tribes. So yes, how you feel, indeed does not change reality.

If some fat hairy dude in a wig with purple hair all hoped up on hormone blockers comes running up to me and demanding to call him by some f*cked up SJW gender term.. It ain't gonna happen.

 

You honestly expect sh*t like that to be dignified with a response?

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.Vooodu.

 

. You feel gender and sex are one and the same, reality says sex is based on the biological difference and gender is largely dependent on socio-economic and other external factors, hence why we for example have societies with historically non-binary interpretations of gender like for example the Hijara in India or two-spirited in native tribes. So yes, how you feel, indeed does not change reality.

If some fat hairy dude in a wig with purple hair all hoped up on hormone blockers comes running up to me and demanding to call him by some f*cked up SJW gender term.. It ain't gonna happen.

 

You honestly expect sh*t like that to be dignified with a response?

 

 

 

1.) Boys have penises.. Girls have Vaginas. Simple. Anything else.. All that non binary SJW garbage doesn't work on me.. I haven't been infected by it. So its like talking to a brick wall. I don't give a sh*t what anyone identifies as. They can think are a snail for all i care. Just don't think for a second you that anyone can force SJW garbage onto people they will accept it.

 

2.) Do i seem like a person that cares about dignity? I never have... Just sayin' I have no shame either.

 

This whole gender thing is beyond annoying, just as annoying as political correctness. . Ok then.. lets just change it to SEX then.. And wipe the term GENDER from memory.

 

 

Like Ommmmy gawwwed im Gender Fluid.. Sometimes im a guy.. then im a girl.. them im both.. Then im like 1/3 of it.. (Just don't look under the hood)

Edited by .Vooodu.

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Raavi

So in other words; you don't have any counterarguments, can't rebut anything I said and are essentially throwing in the towel because your argument is sh*t and not representative of reality.

 

Got it.

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DEALUX

whilst completely ignoring mountains of evidence and even scientific consensus to the contrary.

Evidence of what exactly? And truth or facts are not established by consensus (consensus based "facts" take you into the realm of religion), unless by that you just mean consensus based on numerous studies, but then you're repeating yourself.

 

There is no concrete proof that gender is just a social construct. We also don't fully understand what being trans is since we don't understand that much about the brain either. It used to be called a disorder but we changed the words in recent years for some reason and reached some sort of consensus but how did we do that exactly? How do we study subjective experiences like that and conclude that they are completely normal or that such people can be fully functional in society?

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Eutyphro

There is no concrete proof that gender is just a social construct.

I don't really think that's the point here though. Voodu seems to be saying that he will only recognize someone's biological sex, and not how they identify. I think that is a bit radical, and I don't choose that myself, but he's free to choose that. That's his liberty to do so. I do think it matters whether someone actually passes as whatever they want to be called, and that whatever they want to be called is a real word (he or she, and not xir). But in practice I would generally conform out of courtesy to how someone wants to be called.

 

I think some skepticism about 'gender identity' is legitimate, because the idea that gender identity varies indeterminately from biological sex, as many of the modern gender ideologues want to argue, is not true. Most biological men identify as men, and most biological women identify as women. And that is not just due to socialization. That's not a tenable idea. The case where psychologist John Money raised a boy with a mutilated penis as girl, and that boy ended up killing himself being a notable example. Somehow progressives want to argue people are 'born gay', but not born a woman. But radfems and transgender activists also disagree with one another, such as radical feminist Germaine Greer, who refuses to acknowledge trans women as real women.

 

What is worrisome about the current transgender fad is the increasing trend to start the physical transformation before puberty, considering the amount of mental health issues transgender people deal with, and due to the fact that 80-95% learn to accept their biological sex post puberty.

https://www.acpeds.org/gender-dysphoria-in-children-summary-points

https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-dysphoria-in-children

 

It used to be called a disorder but we changed the words in recent years for some reason and reached some sort of consensus but how did we do that exactly? How do we study subjective experiences like that and conclude that they are completely normal or that such people can be fully functional in society?

Well, the same can be said about homosexuality can't it? We made the decision that it is normal, because it occurs regularly and naturally. But concerning gender dysphoria a large amount of caution is warranted.

Edited by Eutyphro

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