R* should split the Sports class.

[Mach1bud]

 

Slow Muscle could have:

 

Virgo

Chino

Buccaneer

The Buccaneer will crush both of those cars, What are you on about?

Yeah thats correct. The Buccanner is actually quite competitive in the Muscle class.

[Mattoropael]

 

 

 

I would love for Muscle to be split as well. Just call it Muscle 1 and Muscle 2.

 

I disagree, having a wide spread of performance in a single class actually limits diversity.

Muscle 1 and Muscle 2? lmao

 

Having WIDE SPREAD limits diversity? Isn't being wide spread being diverse?

People want to win races. I will never pick a Voodoo for a Muscle race, because I want to be competitive.

 

If there were a second lower tier Muscle class, I would be more inclined to pick a car like the Voodoo, because it would be competitive with everyone elses cars. This gives slower cars a use in races.

 

What they call the classes doesn't matter. Call them Fast Muscle and Slow Muscle for all I care.

 

These are only things you can really understand if you are a racer I guess.

 

''I will never pick a Voodoo for a Muscle race, because I want to be competitive.'' Uhhh... Then don't pick a Voodoo?

 

You still have failed to explain how being widely spread actually limits diversity.

 

 

I'm stripping the numbers straight from Broughy's list and for the sake of this conversation, let's just assume his stats are perfectly correct indication of vehicle performance.

 

This is the Cutting Coroners GP lap time ranking of the muscle class:

1. Dominator - 1:09.805

2. Dukes - 1:09.836

3. Coquette BlackFin - 1:10.236

4. Blade - 1:10.407

[...]

17. Virgo - 1:18.912

18. Chino Custom - 1:19.879

19. Chino - 1:19.946

20. Hotknife - 1:21.110

[...]

 

Under current classification, nobody in their right mind would take the Virgo or the Hotknife to a competitive race filled to the brim with Dominators and BlackFins. The supposed "diversity" of the muscle class does not exist because all everyone ever do (outside closed, arranged races) is to bring the top dogs to the table.

 

If we split the "Muscle 1" and "Muscle 2" at the 16th place (which most likely isn't a sensible point to cut it off, but bear with me), the Virgo, Chino and Hotknife will suddenly find themselves very competitive and very much used in this new Muscle 2 class. Hence more cars actually being used in races.

 

 

EDIT: Forgot to remove the SP-only vehicles from the rankings of the lower-end cars while having done so for the top dogs.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Mattoropael

[Arrows to Athens]

 

 

 

 

I would love for Muscle to be split as well. Just call it Muscle 1 and Muscle 2.

 

I disagree, having a wide spread of performance in a single class actually limits diversity.

Muscle 1 and Muscle 2? lmao

 

Having WIDE SPREAD limits diversity? Isn't being wide spread being diverse?

People want to win races. I will never pick a Voodoo for a Muscle race, because I want to be competitive.

 

If there were a second lower tier Muscle class, I would be more inclined to pick a car like the Voodoo, because it would be competitive with everyone elses cars. This gives slower cars a use in races.

 

What they call the classes doesn't matter. Call them Fast Muscle and Slow Muscle for all I care.

 

These are only things you can really understand if you are a racer I guess.

 

''I will never pick a Voodoo for a Muscle race, because I want to be competitive.'' Uhhh... Then don't pick a Voodoo?

 

You still have failed to explain how being widely spread actually limits diversity.

 

 

I'm stripping the numbers straight from Broughy's list and for the sake of this conversation, let's just assume his stats are perfectly correct indication of vehicle performance.

 

This is the muscle class:

1. Dominator - 1:09.805

2. Dukes - 1:09.836

3. Coquette BlackFin - 1:10.236

4. Blade - 1:10.407

[...]

21. Virgo - 1:18.912

22. Chino Custom - 1:19.879

23. Chino - 1:19.946

24. Hotknife - 1:21.110

[...]

 

Under current classification, nobody in their right mind would take the Virgo or the Hotknife to a competitive race filled to the brim with Dominators and BlackFins. The supposed "diversity" of the muscle class does not exist because all everyone ever do (outside closed, arranged races) is to bring the top dogs to the table.

 

If we split the "Muscle 1" and "Muscle 2" at the 20th place (which most likely isn't a sensible point to cut it off, but bear with me), the Virgo, Chino and Hotknife will suddenly find themselves very competitive and very much used in this new Muscle 2 class. Hence more cars actually being used in races.

 

I can give you that, but most people will race the fast muscle cars instead of the slow cars. People rarely race muscles, coupes and sports classics in races anyway.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Fearx--

[DarkSavageDeathlyCloud]

the only thing i woud like to see implemented is a low rider class, thats it

[Mach1bud]

Thanks Mattoropael. That is what I was trying to say but couldnt find the right words.

[Meeloh]

How about races were all classes can compete, and there's an overall rating and class rating. I do love me some mixed class racing.

[Arrows to Athens]

How about races were all classes can compete, and there's an overall rating and class rating. I do love me some mixed class racing.

[Mach1bud]

 

How about races were all classes can compete, and there's an overall rating and class rating. I do love me some mixed class racing.

Agreed.

[Shaytan]

If we're splitting this way, Sports Classics also needs a Classics class split from it.

 

I still favor a complete race classing overhaul that focuses on performance rather than the nature of the vehicle, but this should stir things up as well.

Agreed. Instead of "static" classes (I mean, classes consisting of a specific list of vehicles that cannot be changed), they should be cataloged depending of their performance. So instead of getting a specific car and upgrading it with the best performance parts to get the best car in class, you would have to play arroudn with the performance parts in order to get it the best performance possible but without making it change it's category..

 

 

How about races were all classes can compete, and there's an overall rating and class rating. I do love me some mixed class racing.

Agreed.

 

 

Bad idea. If this happened, people would just take supercars and nobody giving a f*ck about all the other cars. If the idea of having cars organized by their performance, with the ability to change class depending of the performance upgrades you make, your idea would work leeping things fair.

[Arrows to Athens]

 

If we're splitting this way, Sports Classics also needs a Classics class split from it.

 

I still favor a complete race classing overhaul that focuses on performance rather than the nature of the vehicle, but this should stir things up as well.

Agreed. Instead of "static" classes (I mean, classes consisting of a specific list of vehicles that cannot be changed), they should be cataloged depending of their performance. So instead of getting a specific car and upgrading it with the best performance parts to get the best car in class, you would have to play arroudn with the performance parts in order to get it the best performance possible but without making it change it's category..

 

 

How about races were all classes can compete, and there's an overall rating and class rating. I do love me some mixed class racing.

Agreed.

 

 

Bad idea. If this happened, people would just take supercars and nobody giving a f*ck about all the other cars. If the idea of having cars organized by their performance, with the ability to change class depending of the performance upgrades you make, your idea would work leeping things fair.

 

Good point.

 

Long haul 2:

 

Catchup OFF

Slipstream OFF

Class Multi-class

 

Choose Z-Type / Adder. Insta-win.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Fearx--

[Mach1bud]

That isnt exactly how multi class racing works.

 

There is essentially multiple races going on a the same time, a winner for every class, and an overall winner.

[Meeloh]

Overall yes, Adders and other supers would win. But there's two scores, Overall is just a bragging right and wouldn't have more than maybe a 10% purse bonus. Each class would have their first place finishers with their respective earnings.

 

Take for instance Rolex 24 at Daytona. You have your Prototype(P), Prototype Challenge(PC), GT-LM(GT Le Mans), and GT-D(GT Daytona) classes all running in the same field. http://www.imsa.com/imsa101/car-classes (See link for exact class description).

 

So there'd be more than one winner in a single race.

Edited December 20, 2015 by HokusaiXL

[justinlynch3]

 

 

By the way,they should also separate Sanchez from off-road section.It is too overpowered for that class,this is why I leave off-road races before start

It's a dirt bike so it makes sense. The least they could is nerf the performance slightly or buff the performance of certain cars that can benefit from it.

A better solution would be to blacklist it from offroad racing unless in races with strictly ither Sanchez. It corners better, accelerates faster, and maintains better speed through rough terrain than anything with four wheels.

 

Sanchez are certainly top of the class but I've beaten them in my fully modded Dune Buggy. On the right track with a lot of straights (example Grass Routes), then the Brawler has enough outright top speed to beat the Sanchez.

 

Also the Sanchez and Blazer seriously suffers in races that has deep water like crossing a river. These types of races are actually ruled by the Insurgent with Brawler and Monster Trucks being contenders.

 

So a Sanchez can be beat but you need pretty decent driving skill and track condition plays a big part to.

 

A better idea for Off Road is to separate the heavyweight vehicles from the lightweight vehicles.

[Talyllyn]

Slow Muscle could have:

 

Virgo

Chino

Buccaneer

 

Not so much slow, as moreso a "One of these is not like the other". Yknow, STABLE cornering without fishtailing.

[Guest]

The Comet is hardly a low-end Sports car. With a good enough driver it can compete with the best of the cars in the Sports class.

[GAUNTLET HELLFIRE]

 

I would love for Muscle to be split as well. Just call it Muscle 1 and Muscle 2.

 

I disagree, having a wide spread of performance in a single class actually limits diversity.

Muscle 1 and Muscle 2? lmao

 

Having WIDE SPREAD limits diversity? Isn't being widely spread being diverse?

 

I did a sports classics race the other night and even with the amount of different cars everyone chose the Sterling GT. If the classes were better organised there could have been a better variety of cars instead of everyone choosing the same car. If the classes were better organised we could use Peyotes, Tornados, Voltics and other slow cars that never get used for races.

[CrysisAverted]

agreed, also the Elegy belongs in Super

 

 

The Comet is hardly a low-end Sports car. With a good enough driver it can compete with the best of the cars in the Sports class.

so can the Sultan but then that defeats the purpose. We need balance.

Edited December 20, 2015 by CrysisAverted

[Nacho Z]

I've toyed with the idea of artificial balancing for mixed class racing before, a mixture of nerfs and buffs that has the end result of making any chosen vehicle equally viable.

 

So if it was an off road race with a Zentorno, a Faggio and a Rebel, the Zentorno would have it's speed and stability lowered, the Faggio would get a speed boost and they'd probably match the Rebel as the middle ground.

 

I know it's crazy talk and would be wildly unrealistic, but I can't stop thinking about the glorious possibility of a sixteen player off road race with a mix of vehicles from Roosevelts to Sandkings, where everyone has an equal chance of winning.

[JC Hammer]

I'd just like R* to give us the option to race across classes

[JakeHorgrove]

I agree, and please, for the love of all things sacred, put the Blista Compact in with Compacts.

[Shaytan]

That isnt exactly how multi class racing works.

There is essentially multiple races going on a the same time, a winner for every class, and an overall winner.

In theory that would work but, let's say everybody in most races pick sports and supers, I pick compacts or even a golf kart, nobody else ever chooses those categories so although I'll always finish in last I'll win every race for that category, counting it as a victory for me and receiving the same amount of money and RP of the actual winner?

 

I'm going to anticipate you, you're probably going to say "it would only allow you to choose a car class if at least another person chose it too." but then, I'm sure everybody would just pick supers and sometimes 2 or 3 people sports. When you're racing with randoms races end up being always those 2 classes for everybody's amusement, thanks to a few hosters (or when I get sick of those races and host myself) we can race all the other classes sometimes. Letting randoms choose means always supers and never other great classes such as muscles or sports classics.

 

Finally, I think this idea is way too much confusing for a game engine that's expected to be simple to understand.

Edited December 20, 2015 by KingAndy

[Desky]

Rather than splitting the car classes, I prefer that the lower end cars get more performance parts so they can be more competitive.

 

After all, the lower end cars are usually more tuneable IRL. For example a Lancer Evo, Eclipse, Ford GT, Gallardo all have quite a sizeable aftermarket available for them.

[Clintonics]

I've always wondered why the Sultan and Blista Compact are classified as Sport. I believe they moved the Mariachi from Off-Road, so why not fix the others?

[Mach1bud]

 

That isnt exactly how multi class racing works.

There is essentially multiple races going on a the same time, a winner for every class, and an overall winner.

In theory that would work but, let's say everybody in most races pick sports and supers, I pick compacts or even a golf kart, nobody else ever chooses those categories so although I'll always finish in last I'll win every race for that category, counting it as a victory for me and receiving the same amount of money and RP of the actual winner?

 

I'm going to anticipate you, you're probably going to say "it would only allow you to choose a car class if at least another person chose it too." but then, I'm sure everybody would just pick supers and sometimes 2 or 3 people sports. When you're racing with randoms races end up being always those 2 classes for everybody's amusement, thanks to a few hosters (or when I get sick of those races and host myself) we can race all the other classes sometimes. Letting randoms choose means always supers and never other great classes such as muscles or sports classics.

 

Finally, I think this idea is way too much confusing for a game engine that's expected to be simple to understand.

You are right, most people would still only race Supers.

 

Nobody plays rally, helicopter, bicycle, compacts, coupes, sedans, races with turns, races that are even slightly difficult, and lap knockout races.

 

That doesn't mean that all that shouldnt be in the game. Variety is the spice of life, and I think there would be plenty of people that get enjoyment out of multiclass racing, based on the very highly upvoted Racing Update thread on the Support page.

 

They can't cater to the lowest common denominator when putting in new features.

I've always wondered why the Sultan and Blista Compact are classified as Sport. I believe they moved the Mariachi from Off-Road, so why not fix the others?

Mariachi is still off road.

[Desky]

I've always wondered why the Sultan and Blista Compact are classified as Sport. I believe they moved the Mariachi from Off-Road, so why not fix the others?

The Sultan will destroy any other class. Putting it an a tuners class with the likes of the Penumbra, the only thing that can stand up to it is the Kuruma.

 

The Blista is horribly outmatched though in sports.

[Spectacus]

 

I've always wondered why the Sultan and Blista Compact are classified as Sport. I believe they moved the Mariachi from Off-Road, so why not fix the others?

The Sultan will destroy any other class. Putting it an a tuners class with the likes of the Penumbra, the only thing that can stand up to it is the Kuruma.

 

The Blista is horribly outmatched though in sports.

 

I'd Still like a Tuner class though...

[SaltyGTAFMember]

 

 

If we're splitting this way, Sports Classics also needs a Classics class split from it.

 

I still favor a complete race classing overhaul that focuses on performance rather than the nature of the vehicle, but this should stir things up as well.

Agreed. Instead of "static" classes (I mean, classes consisting of a specific list of vehicles that cannot be changed), they should be cataloged depending of their performance. So instead of getting a specific car and upgrading it with the best performance parts to get the best car in class, you would have to play arroudn with the performance parts in order to get it the best performance possible but without making it change it's category..

 

 

How about races were all classes can compete, and there's an overall rating and class rating. I do love me some mixed class racing.

Agreed.

 

 

Bad idea. If this happened, people would just take supercars and nobody giving a f*ck about all the other cars. If the idea of having cars organized by their performance, with the ability to change class depending of the performance upgrades you make, your idea would work leeping things fair.

 

Good point.

 

Long haul 2:

 

Catchup OFF

Slipstream OFF

Class Multi-class

 

Choose Z-Type / Adder. Insta-win.

 

If clases were actually balanced then it would work if a 90 rated supercar can race with a 90 rated sports car.

[GTA-Biker]

I agree.Also,I think they should split motorcycle class into different classes instead of having them all in one class (one class for choppers,cruisers and touring bikes,one for sport bikes and naked bikes,one for off road bikes,one for scooters/mopeds) and make a separate class for lowriders instead of having them scattered in multiple different classes (Voodoo,Virgo,Chino and Buccaneer custom are in muscle,Peyote,Tornado and Manana are in sport classics,Primo custom and Emperor are in sedans...).

[justinlynch3]

I agree.Also,I think they should split motorcycle class into different classes instead of having them all in one class (one class for choppers,cruisers and touring bikes,one for sport bikes and naked bikes,one for off road bikes,one for scooters/mopeds) and make a separate class for lowriders instead of having them scattered in multiple different classes (Voodoo,Virgo,Chino and Buccaneer custom are in muscle,Peyote,Tornado and Manana are in sport classics,Primo custom and Emperor are in sedans...).

Buccaneer would obliterate a Lowrider class, I'm pretty sure it's a Muscle car anyway so it's fine in Muscle. The Primo and Emperor are in Sedans because that's what they are.

 

Virgo and Chino might fit a Lowrider class better then Muscle, but I'd suspect they'd be to fast.

 

If you was to have a Lowrider class, it'd consist of.

- Tornado.

- Voodoo.

- Manana.

- Peyote.

 

These are the classic pimp style cars you'd think of when making a Lowrider class, and this is also the most balanced.

[Meeloh]

Could simply enable a percentage per class lock much like team balancing in FPS's. If one class has two many players, pick another, so on and so on.