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Schafter V12 appreciation thread


djdest
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FBeingNormal
On 3/19/2018 at 5:10 AM, JR_Death said:

39997431665_36c132381d_o_d.jpg

 

 

 

 

39081605100_ddc60afcc8_o_d.jpg

 

What color is it? Amazing view

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  • 1 month later...
ka52alligator
On 5/20/2019 at 2:19 AM, Mattoropael said:

Switched it back to a darker shade of silver along with stock wheels since some time ago, but never took any new photos of it. Consider that problem fixed.

 

9TwFfOy.jpg

 

D6U3kVm.jpg

 

IjRFBmQ.jpg

do you still have the color for this? looks good with the plate too

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/15/2015 at 5:43 AM, djdest said:

I loved the Coupe, this is even better! It sounds amazing :D

 

Pa6QYfxD-UmwKCyzXYQo8g_0_0.jpg

 

TV4OG8ixMUClPe_vUb3biQ_0_0.jpg

 

H81TF_Y9y0GhId4TGrW5ig_0_0.jpg

 

3hp4r21pRkOFyUz7DnGNqA_0_0.jpg

 

p_LNl6ramEOmityXOUTUFQ_0_0.jpg

 

HlBXPPRK-0qIAqAYc85rRw_0_0.jpg

Looks Great But Its a Sedan.

  • excuseme 1
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2 hours ago, ARRM said:

Looks Great But Its a Sedan.

That post is almost 5 years old...

  • KEKW 2
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HamwithCheese
4 hours ago, ARRM said:

Looks Great But Its a Sedan.

Not only is this a 5 year old post, he said "I loved the coupe, this is even better" meaning he really like the coupe version of the car, and the sedan version is even better

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8 minutes ago, HamwithCheese said:

Not only is this a 5 year old post, he said "I loved the coupe, this is even better" meaning he really like the coupe version of the car, and the sedan version is even better

He's a skimmer, jim.

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  • 1 month later...

  I've got too much time on my hands right now, so bare with me now...

designo Mystic Blue

 

1.jpg?width=1204&height=677

 

I looove this car. But it sure needed some TLC. I was initially excited about this car back in 2015, and but couldn't enjoy it until I upgraded to the PS4 back in 2016. That's when I bought one, grew tired of it and sold it. And then I did it again. I don't know, this car had A LOT of flaws. First that rear suspension. I don't care what anyone says, it looks terrible. The W221 Mercedes has some odd, wide wheel arches but they in no way make the rear of the car look lower than the front. And neither the W212 E-Class nor the C216 CL-Class have those issues either. Believe me, I'm around cars like this IRL all of the time, there was no excuse for that god awful offset.

 

50649911367_df442de76a_k.jpg

 

And then this viewpoint is gonna be controversial, but here goes: this car does not sound anything like a V12. It doesn't. Period. What it sounds like is an AMG, indeed, but a naturally-aspirated 6.2L V8. Basically a 63. So basically what this car really is, is a Schafter V8 (early S63/E63/CL63, the later ones used a BiTurbo 5.5L V8). But what you really want is the V12.

 

50649911477_2c9d78ef29_k.jpg

 

Click the spoiler below, where I geek out over the AMG V12s which have been one of my biggest obsessions when it comes to Mercedes-Benz and AMG.

 

 

Well, the V8 is good and all but the V12 is rarer and cooler. Mercedes pushed out the 63 AMG models by the thousands annually. The 65 AMGs however? By the hundreds, in some cases, the dozens. They're rare. And part of this reason is because of the powerplant. The V12 AMGs were not just more powerful 63s, marked up by $50k. No. They were entirely different beasts with entirely different approaches to how they put power down. The V8 AMGs are in your face, they snarl, they're loud, they growl, and they push you back into your seat. The V12 65 AMGs used an engine called the M275, sourced from luxury cars. Yes, it was basically a luxury car engine. They used it in the S600, the SL600 and the CL600. So you can see why the approach to power would be very different.

With a Mercedes V12 BiTurbo, smoothness is the goal. It is seamless. Low RPMs, boatloads of torque. You get the picture. When AMG got their hands on this engine, they gave it 604 horsepower and an earth-shattering 738lbft (1000 Newton Meters) of torque. It was so much torque, it was supposedly the most amount of torque they could do without breaking the engine. And of course, without further overwhelming the rear wheels. Which it did. This engine produces so much power, that from a rolling start it will embarrass almost any super car from its time. And it would still give a lot of modern sports/super cars a run for their money (however turbocharging has been the focus with most brands lately, likely do to regulations, but this also usually means more torque). HOWEVER, because of the RWD format... every 65 AMG struggles to get up to 60 MPH any quicker than 4 seconds. With traction control you'll slow the car down and it won't launch as strong, without it you spin out until you gain traction and some magazines only managed 60 MPH in 5 seconds because of that. Launched right, which is hard but possible, it will do the low 4s. They couldn't do AWD because of the way these cars were designed as well as the engine and its size.

 

So what we have here is basically a luxury car, at heart, with heaps of power. It provides the smoothest experience, fit for a luxury car. Look at most old-school luxobarges. Big engines, big power, usually a V12, and lots of torque. Well, that is also the V12 AMGs only they go overboard with the power. It is the ultimate sleeper because from a rolling start, good luck keeping up with this car if you're in a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. It'll go from 60 MPH to 120 MPH very fast and keep pulling until an electronic limit of 155 or 186. Without those limiters, 200 MPH would be easily achievable. The older AMG V8s, especially before the BiTurbo 5.5L V8 (which was a torque monster), were nothing like that. And unlike the 63 AMGs, there is 0 compromise and it actually makes more sense for a car like the S-Class. The Mercedes-Maybachs use the same V12 and tune as the discontinued S65 AMG for this very reason. It is smoother than their V8s. So if you ever wondered why the S65 AMG V12 existed, that's why. And that's also why it was worth around $50k more than an S63 AMG. It wasn't meant to achieve 60 MPH quicker or to be more of a sports car. Quite frankly, it was to be the ultimate luxury car and it actually made more sense than the S63/SL63/CL63 AMGs considering what type of car it was.

 

And the easiest way to look at it is Bentley with their W12 vs their V8. Nobody questions why Bentley uses the W12. It was the same case for Mercedes, only much rarer and more niche.

 

Now if you know about the Brabus E V12, then I know what you're thinking. "herr derr, but it's not an S65, it's a Brabus " well guess what engine that car uses? The S600/SL600/CL600-sourced M275 V12 which applies power the same way as the S65/SL65/CL65 AMGs. And regardless, the Schafter V12 bares no real Brabus influence. At all. If you want to play that game, I'll tell you exactly what the TBoGT-generation Schafter is. A W212 E-Class body with a W221 S-Class wheelbase and length, a C216 CL-Class front fascia and a W221 S-Class interior. The Schafter V12 pulls parts from the Schwartzer (a V12) which looks eerily similar to the C216 CL63/65 AMG because that's what the car is based on along with the W204 C63 AMG Black Series. The Schwartzer has an identical front fascia to the C216 CL63/65, a kit similar to the W204 C63 AMG Black Series, a C-pillar design similar to the W204 C-Class Coupe, and W212 E-Class taillights. And the Schafter V12 took almost of these features and applied them onto the Schafter. There is 0 Brabus in there as far as design goes. And if you want to take performance... well a Brabus E V12 would walk all over the base version of this car...

 

Okay that's it.

 

 

 

So, after going through a laundry list of engine notes, I found that the closest fitting engine note is actually the Dewbauchee Specter. Go figure. The Specter is based on the DB10, which uses a 4.7L N/A V8 from the Vantage. But the sound Rockstar did for it was more like a muted Aston Martin 5.9L V12. Muted. Basically what a turbo does to the sound of an engine, so perfect. The startup sound is very identical to the S65 AMG, and so is the way it revs. It makes a cold, drone-y, deep sound just like a lazy V12, but it isn't loud and it quiets down at low-speeds to where you can barely hear it. Perfection.

 

That of course brings us onto performance. Those of you who scratched your heads at this car in the past, wondering why it was such a mess or classed as a sports car, you were right. I already described this in the spoiler above, but an S65 is torquey, very torquey, but also very buttery smooth. The Schafter V12? Not so much. It feels skittish, too light, all over the place and holds onto gears all wrong. The wheelspin is accurate, but still a bit more of how a V8 would do it rather than a BiTurbo V12. So I dug into the code and gave it 5 gears (I use a manual transmission mod which has a more realistic automatic mode that only holds onto gears when you're hauling ass) and lowered the fClutchChangeRateScaleUp/DownShift to make the gears swift but smoother, more weight, a lower fInitialDriveForce (this controls launch, I think!), a wider turning radius (fSteeringLock) and a buttery smooth suspension. Then I upped the horsepower multiplier up by 90% and torque up by 120%. This completely transformed this car into a cruise missile (I use this set up for the Schwartzer and the IV Schafter as well). Without traction control (basically without any transmission mods) it wheelspins for days and smokes tires and powerslides when you're pushing it. 738lbft of torque to the rear wheels. But past the launch (or with traction control), the car is just smooth. As smooth as a base Schafter but quieter. And yet, from a rolling start, if you floor it, it pulls like a MF. As seen here in this video (where you can also hear the sound and the MPH):

 

 

Next, I worked on that offset. VStancer fixed that. Once again... I cannot believe the way that this car looked ever made it past a quality check. How? Why? Who? Ultimately, sound and handling aside, the suspension was THE reason I could never keep this car in GTA:Online. It didn't matter if I pretended this was a Schafter V8, loved the sound, or loved driving it. Whenever I looked at the rear or the side profile.. my god. Garbage. Just... why? It's a shame that you have to mod the game to fix something that a college-educated, experienced modeler/developer got PAID to do. Unbelievable. All of the mods I've done to vehicles have been mere fixes. No kidding. Part of the Schafter V12s issue is the design of the wheel arches, but if you look closely from the side, the car actually is leaning further towards the ground than the front. Simply tilting it forward and pushing the rear wheels out a little makes it look perfectly fine. It was really that simple...

 

50649074913_1d7d3b60b2_k.jpg

 

The next thing I changed was a little pet-peeve of mine. The Schwartzer has V12 badges. the Dubsta has V12 badges. The IV Schafter has V12 badges. The Schafter V12? Nah. 🤦‍♂️ So, I requested that someone skilled in ZModeler apply some V12 badges. Because in real life when you see that V12 badge on an AMG Merc (well V12 BiTurbo IRL), you know it means business. It just looks cool. I like badges, I like it when a brand subtly advertises a cars performance figures or engine size, etc. It's just cool. So I figured... why not on the Schafter V12. This car, aesthetically, is perfect to me. It looks sharp, after the suspension was fixed it has presence, the roof can be made black/carbon, the W221 S-Class styled interior can be colored, etc. All it needed was the badge.

 

50649823336_eddb0fb185_k.jpg

 

So...

 

With everything perfected; the sound, the handling, the looks - I wanted to do something that looked special. Stock, but special. I was inspired to do this spec because of someone I follow on Instagram (He owns a lot of very special cars, including a designo brown E63 AMG S Estate and more). He picked up this very special, very rare example of the W221 S65 AMG:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2011-mercedes-benz-s65-amg-2/

 

2011_mercedes-benz_s65_amg_1552339466680

2011_mercedes-benz_s65_amg_1552338888f87

2011_mercedes-benz_s65_amg_15523393142af

 

designo Mystic Blue (deep blue) over designo Porcelain (off-white) leather. This is very special because most S65s from the W221/W220-gen are just black. Out of all of the 65s I've seen (and as a car spotter, there's only been a few) only a couple were silver, one white, one grey. None any color of any sort. Any colorful 65 (S/SL/CL, whatever) is very hard to find. The owner seems to enjoy it very much. And so I used it as the basis for my Schafter V12 spec.

 

50649824961_7785c3f1e0_k.jpg

 

Doing an off-white interior was easy, and by default, certain parts of the Schafter's interior are black so that worked out perfectly. And then the color was also easy. The RGB: , , . And then the wheels. Standard Schafter V12 wheels are pretty accurate and good looking, however the W222 S65 AMG provided many more wheel options and gave the S65 a more bespoke look. So... I just chose some Schwartzer wheels. I think, well, it came out sharp.

 

50649823106_53a541dc2c_k.jpg

 

It is quite a mouthful for just a GTA car. It is just a video-game. Well... 🤡 as someone mostly busy these days, and as someone who finally games on PC, I just love to configure stuff to my liking so when I do find the time to play, I have a very good time. It's the ultimate immersion for me to play a GTA the way I want. It's been great, tbh. Out of all of the other cars I've tweaked, and all of the lore-friendly cars I've downloaded, this is probably still my favorite car in the game.

Edited by ddarko12
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  • 7 months later...
On 12/25/2020 at 10:06 PM, ddarko12 said:

  I've got too much time on my hands right now, so bare with me now...

designo Mystic Blue

 

1.jpg?width=1204&height=677

 

I looove this car. But it sure needed some TLC. I was initially excited about this car back in 2015, and but couldn't enjoy it until I upgraded to the PS4 back in 2016. That's when I bought one, grew tired of it and sold it. And then I did it again. I don't know, this car had A LOT of flaws. First that rear suspension. I don't care what anyone says, it looks terrible. The W221 Mercedes has some odd, wide wheel arches but they in no way make the rear of the car look lower than the front. And neither the W212 E-Class nor the C216 CL-Class have those issues either. Believe me, I'm around cars like this IRL all of the time, there was no excuse for that god awful offset.

 

50649911367_df442de76a_k.jpg

 

And then this viewpoint is gonna be controversial, but here goes: this car does not sound anything like a V12. It doesn't. Period. What it sounds like is an AMG, indeed, but a naturally-aspirated 6.2L V8. Basically a 63. So basically what this car really is, is a Schafter V8 (early S63/E63/CL63, the later ones used a BiTurbo 5.5L V8). But what you really want is the V12.

 

50649911477_2c9d78ef29_k.jpg

 

Click the spoiler below, where I geek out over the AMG V12s which have been one of my biggest obsessions when it comes to Mercedes-Benz and AMG.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Well, the V8 is good and all but the V12 is rarer and cooler. Mercedes pushed out the 63 AMG models by the thousands annually. The 65 AMGs however? By the hundreds, in some cases, the dozens. They're rare. And part of this reason is because of the powerplant. The V12 AMGs were not just more powerful 63s, marked up by $50k. No. They were entirely different beasts with entirely different approaches to how they put power down. The V8 AMGs are in your face, they snarl, they're loud, they growl, and they push you back into your seat. The V12 65 AMGs used an engine called the M275, sourced from luxury cars. Yes, it was basically a luxury car engine. They used it in the S600, the SL600 and the CL600. So you can see why the approach to power would be very different.

With a Mercedes V12 BiTurbo, smoothness is the goal. It is seamless. Low RPMs, boatloads of torque. You get the picture. When AMG got their hands on this engine, they gave it 604 horsepower and an earth-shattering 738lbft (1000 Newton Meters) of torque. It was so much torque, it was supposedly the most amount of torque they could do without breaking the engine. And of course, without further overwhelming the rear wheels. Which it did. This engine produces so much power, that from a rolling start it will embarrass almost any super car from its time. And it would still give a lot of modern sports/super cars a run for their money (however turbocharging has been the focus with most brands lately, likely do to regulations, but this also usually means more torque). HOWEVER, because of the RWD format... every 65 AMG struggles to get up to 60 MPH any quicker than 4 seconds. With traction control you'll slow the car down and it won't launch as strong, without it you spin out until you gain traction and some magazines only managed 60 MPH in 5 seconds because of that. Launched right, which is hard but possible, it will do the low 4s. They couldn't do AWD because of the way these cars were designed as well as the engine and its size.

 

So what we have here is basically a luxury car, at heart, with heaps of power. It provides the smoothest experience, fit for a luxury car. Look at most old-school luxobarges. Big engines, big power, usually a V12, and lots of torque. Well, that is also the V12 AMGs only they go overboard with the power. It is the ultimate sleeper because from a rolling start, good luck keeping up with this car if you're in a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. It'll go from 60 MPH to 120 MPH very fast and keep pulling until an electronic limit of 155 or 186. Without those limiters, 200 MPH would be easily achievable. The older AMG V8s, especially before the BiTurbo 5.5L V8 (which was a torque monster), were nothing like that. And unlike the 63 AMGs, there is 0 compromise and it actually makes more sense for a car like the S-Class. The Mercedes-Maybachs use the same V12 and tune as the discontinued S65 AMG for this very reason. It is smoother than their V8s. So if you ever wondered why the S65 AMG V12 existed, that's why. And that's also why it was worth around $50k more than an S63 AMG. It wasn't meant to achieve 60 MPH quicker or to be more of a sports car. Quite frankly, it was to be the ultimate luxury car and it actually made more sense than the S63/SL63/CL63 AMGs considering what type of car it was.

 

And the easiest way to look at it is Bentley with their W12 vs their V8. Nobody questions why Bentley uses the W12. It was the same case for Mercedes, only much rarer and more niche.

 

Now if you know about the Brabus E V12, then I know what you're thinking. "herr derr, but it's not an S65, it's a Brabus " well guess what engine that car uses? The S600/SL600/CL600-sourced M275 V12 which applies power the same way as the S65/SL65/CL65 AMGs. And regardless, the Schafter V12 bares no real Brabus influence. At all. If you want to play that game, I'll tell you exactly what the TBoGT-generation Schafter is. A W212 E-Class body with a W221 S-Class wheelbase and length, a C216 CL-Class front fascia and a W221 S-Class interior. The Schafter V12 pulls parts from the Schwartzer (a V12) which looks eerily similar to the C216 CL63/65 AMG because that's what the car is based on along with the W204 C63 AMG Black Series. The Schwartzer has an identical front fascia to the C216 CL63/65, a kit similar to the W204 C63 AMG Black Series, a C-pillar design similar to the W204 C-Class Coupe, and W212 E-Class taillights. And the Schafter V12 took almost of these features and applied them onto the Schafter. There is 0 Brabus in there as far as design goes. And if you want to take performance... well a Brabus E V12 would walk all over the base version of this car...

 

Okay that's it.

 

 

 

So, after going through a laundry list of engine notes, I found that the closest fitting engine note is actually the Dewbauchee Specter. Go figure. The Specter is based on the DB10, which uses a 4.7L N/A V8 from the Vantage. But the sound Rockstar did for it was more like a muted Aston Martin 5.9L V12. Muted. Basically what a turbo does to the sound of an engine, so perfect. The startup sound is very identical to the S65 AMG, and so is the way it revs. It makes a cold, drone-y, deep sound just like a lazy V12, but it isn't loud and it quiets down at low-speeds to where you can barely hear it. Perfection.

 

That of course brings us onto performance. Those of you who scratched your heads at this car in the past, wondering why it was such a mess or classed as a sports car, you were right. I already described this in the spoiler above, but an S65 is torquey, very torquey, but also very buttery smooth. The Schafter V12? Not so much. It feels skittish, too light, all over the place and holds onto gears all wrong. The wheelspin is accurate, but still a bit more of how a V8 would do it rather than a BiTurbo V12. So I dug into the code and gave it 5 gears (I use a manual transmission mod which has a more realistic automatic mode that only holds onto gears when you're hauling ass) and lowered the fClutchChangeRateScaleUp/DownShift to make the gears swift but smoother, more weight, a lower fInitialDriveForce (this controls launch, I think!), a wider turning radius (fSteeringLock) and a buttery smooth suspension. Then I upped the horsepower multiplier up by 90% and torque up by 120%. This completely transformed this car into a cruise missile (I use this set up for the Schwartzer and the IV Schafter as well). Without traction control (basically without any transmission mods) it wheelspins for days and smokes tires and powerslides when you're pushing it. 738lbft of torque to the rear wheels. But past the launch (or with traction control), the car is just smooth. As smooth as a base Schafter but quieter. And yet, from a rolling start, if you floor it, it pulls like a MF. As seen here in this video (where you can also hear the sound and the MPH):

 

 

Next, I worked on that offset. VStancer fixed that. Once again... I cannot believe the way that this car looked ever made it past a quality check. How? Why? Who? Ultimately, sound and handling aside, the suspension was THE reason I could never keep this car in GTA:Online. It didn't matter if I pretended this was a Schafter V8, loved the sound, or loved driving it. Whenever I looked at the rear or the side profile.. my god. Garbage. Just... why? It's a shame that you have to mod the game to fix something that a college-educated, experienced modeler/developer got PAID to do. Unbelievable. All of the mods I've done to vehicles have been mere fixes. No kidding. Part of the Schafter V12s issue is the design of the wheel arches, but if you look closely from the side, the car actually is leaning further towards the ground than the front. Simply tilting it forward and pushing the rear wheels out a little makes it look perfectly fine. It was really that simple...

 

50649074913_1d7d3b60b2_k.jpg

 

The next thing I changed was a little pet-peeve of mine. The Schwartzer has V12 badges. the Dubsta has V12 badges. The IV Schafter has V12 badges. The Schafter V12? Nah. 🤦‍♂️ So, I requested that someone skilled in ZModeler apply some V12 badges. Because in real life when you see that V12 badge on an AMG Merc (well V12 BiTurbo IRL), you know it means business. It just looks cool. I like badges, I like it when a brand subtly advertises a cars performance figures or engine size, etc. It's just cool. So I figured... why not on the Schafter V12. This car, aesthetically, is perfect to me. It looks sharp, after the suspension was fixed it has presence, the roof can be made black/carbon, the W221 S-Class styled interior can be colored, etc. All it needed was the badge.

 

50649823336_eddb0fb185_k.jpg

 

So...

 

With everything perfected; the sound, the handling, the looks - I wanted to do something that looked special. Stock, but special. I was inspired to do this spec because of someone I follow on Instagram (He owns a lot of very special cars, including a designo brown E63 AMG S Estate and more). He picked up this very special, very rare example of the W221 S65 AMG:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2011-mercedes-benz-s65-amg-2/

 

2011_mercedes-benz_s65_amg_1552339466680

2011_mercedes-benz_s65_amg_1552338888f87

2011_mercedes-benz_s65_amg_15523393142af

 

designo Mystic Blue (deep blue) over designo Porcelain (off-white) leather. This is very special because most S65s from the W221/W220-gen are just black. Out of all of the 65s I've seen (and as a car spotter, there's only been a few) only a couple were silver, one white, one grey. None any color of any sort. Any colorful 65 (S/SL/CL, whatever) is very hard to find. The owner seems to enjoy it very much. And so I used it as the basis for my Schafter V12 spec.

 

50649824961_7785c3f1e0_k.jpg

 

Doing an off-white interior was easy, and by default, certain parts of the Schafter's interior are black so that worked out perfectly. And then the color was also easy. The RGB: , , . And then the wheels. Standard Schafter V12 wheels are pretty accurate and good looking, however the W222 S65 AMG provided many more wheel options and gave the S65 a more bespoke look. So... I just chose some Schwartzer wheels. I think, well, it came out sharp.

 

50649823106_53a541dc2c_k.jpg

 

It is quite a mouthful for just a GTA car. It is just a video-game. Well... 🤡 as someone mostly busy these days, and as someone who finally games on PC, I just love to configure stuff to my liking so when I do find the time to play, I have a very good time. It's the ultimate immersion for me to play a GTA the way I want. It's been great, tbh. Out of all of the other cars I've tweaked, and all of the lore-friendly cars I've downloaded, this is probably still my favorite car in the game.

I know this is a long shot but could I get the HEX (or RGB) for this colour? It looks amazing! :)

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On 12/25/2020 at 6:06 PM, ddarko12 said:

  I've got too much time on my hands right now, so bare with me now...

designo Mystic Blue

 

1.jpg?width=1204&height=677

 

I looove this car. But it sure needed some TLC. I was initially excited about this car back in 2015, and but couldn't enjoy it until I upgraded to the PS4 back in 2016. That's when I bought one, grew tired of it and sold it. And then I did it again. I don't know, this car had A LOT of flaws. First that rear suspension. I don't care what anyone says, it looks terrible. The W221 Mercedes has some odd, wide wheel arches but they in no way make the rear of the car look lower than the front. And neither the W212 E-Class nor the C216 CL-Class have those issues either. Believe me, I'm around cars like this IRL all of the time, there was no excuse for that god awful offset.

 

50649911367_df442de76a_k.jpg

 

And then this viewpoint is gonna be controversial, but here goes: this car does not sound anything like a V12. It doesn't. Period. What it sounds like is an AMG, indeed, but a naturally-aspirated 6.2L V8. Basically a 63. So basically what this car really is, is a Schafter V8 (early S63/E63/CL63, the later ones used a BiTurbo 5.5L V8). But what you really want is the V12.

 

50649911477_2c9d78ef29_k.jpg

 

Click the spoiler below, where I geek out over the AMG V12s which have been one of my biggest obsessions when it comes to Mercedes-Benz and AMG.

 

  Hide contents

Well, the V8 is good and all but the V12 is rarer and cooler. Mercedes pushed out the 63 AMG models by the thousands annually. The 65 AMGs however? By the hundreds, in some cases, the dozens. They're rare. And part of this reason is because of the powerplant. The V12 AMGs were not just more powerful 63s, marked up by $50k. No. They were entirely different beasts with entirely different approaches to how they put power down. The V8 AMGs are in your face, they snarl, they're loud, they growl, and they push you back into your seat. The V12 65 AMGs used an engine called the M275, sourced from luxury cars. Yes, it was basically a luxury car engine. They used it in the S600, the SL600 and the CL600. So you can see why the approach to power would be very different.

With a Mercedes V12 BiTurbo, smoothness is the goal. It is seamless. Low RPMs, boatloads of torque. You get the picture. When AMG got their hands on this engine, they gave it 604 horsepower and an earth-shattering 738lbft (1000 Newton Meters) of torque. It was so much torque, it was supposedly the most amount of torque they could do without breaking the engine. And of course, without further overwhelming the rear wheels. Which it did. This engine produces so much power, that from a rolling start it will embarrass almost any super car from its time. And it would still give a lot of modern sports/super cars a run for their money (however turbocharging has been the focus with most brands lately, likely do to regulations, but this also usually means more torque). HOWEVER, because of the RWD format... every 65 AMG struggles to get up to 60 MPH any quicker than 4 seconds. With traction control you'll slow the car down and it won't launch as strong, without it you spin out until you gain traction and some magazines only managed 60 MPH in 5 seconds because of that. Launched right, which is hard but possible, it will do the low 4s. They couldn't do AWD because of the way these cars were designed as well as the engine and its size.

 

So what we have here is basically a luxury car, at heart, with heaps of power. It provides the smoothest experience, fit for a luxury car. Look at most old-school luxobarges. Big engines, big power, usually a V12, and lots of torque. Well, that is also the V12 AMGs only they go overboard with the power. It is the ultimate sleeper because from a rolling start, good luck keeping up with this car if you're in a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. It'll go from 60 MPH to 120 MPH very fast and keep pulling until an electronic limit of 155 or 186. Without those limiters, 200 MPH would be easily achievable. The older AMG V8s, especially before the BiTurbo 5.5L V8 (which was a torque monster), were nothing like that. And unlike the 63 AMGs, there is 0 compromise and it actually makes more sense for a car like the S-Class. The Mercedes-Maybachs use the same V12 and tune as the discontinued S65 AMG for this very reason. It is smoother than their V8s. So if you ever wondered why the S65 AMG V12 existed, that's why. And that's also why it was worth around $50k more than an S63 AMG. It wasn't meant to achieve 60 MPH quicker or to be more of a sports car. Quite frankly, it was to be the ultimate luxury car and it actually made more sense than the S63/SL63/CL63 AMGs considering what type of car it was.

 

And the easiest way to look at it is Bentley with their W12 vs their V8. Nobody questions why Bentley uses the W12. It was the same case for Mercedes, only much rarer and more niche.

 

Now if you know about the Brabus E V12, then I know what you're thinking. "herr derr, but it's not an S65, it's a Brabus " well guess what engine that car uses? The S600/SL600/CL600-sourced M275 V12 which applies power the same way as the S65/SL65/CL65 AMGs. And regardless, the Schafter V12 bares no real Brabus influence. At all. If you want to play that game, I'll tell you exactly what the TBoGT-generation Schafter is. A W212 E-Class body with a W221 S-Class wheelbase and length, a C216 CL-Class front fascia and a W221 S-Class interior. The Schafter V12 pulls parts from the Schwartzer (a V12) which looks eerily similar to the C216 CL63/65 AMG because that's what the car is based on along with the W204 C63 AMG Black Series. The Schwartzer has an identical front fascia to the C216 CL63/65, a kit similar to the W204 C63 AMG Black Series, a C-pillar design similar to the W204 C-Class Coupe, and W212 E-Class taillights. And the Schafter V12 took almost of these features and applied them onto the Schafter. There is 0 Brabus in there as far as design goes. And if you want to take performance... well a Brabus E V12 would walk all over the base version of this car...

 

Okay that's it.

 

 

 

So, after going through a laundry list of engine notes, I found that the closest fitting engine note is actually the Dewbauchee Specter. Go figure. The Specter is based on the DB10, which uses a 4.7L N/A V8 from the Vantage. But the sound Rockstar did for it was more like a muted Aston Martin 5.9L V12. Muted. Basically what a turbo does to the sound of an engine, so perfect. The startup sound is very identical to the S65 AMG, and so is the way it revs. It makes a cold, drone-y, deep sound just like a lazy V12, but it isn't loud and it quiets down at low-speeds to where you can barely hear it. Perfection.

 

That of course brings us onto performance. Those of you who scratched your heads at this car in the past, wondering why it was such a mess or classed as a sports car, you were right. I already described this in the spoiler above, but an S65 is torquey, very torquey, but also very buttery smooth. The Schafter V12? Not so much. It feels skittish, too light, all over the place and holds onto gears all wrong. The wheelspin is accurate, but still a bit more of how a V8 would do it rather than a BiTurbo V12. So I dug into the code and gave it 5 gears (I use a manual transmission mod which has a more realistic automatic mode that only holds onto gears when you're hauling ass) and lowered the fClutchChangeRateScaleUp/DownShift to make the gears swift but smoother, more weight, a lower fInitialDriveForce (this controls launch, I think!), a wider turning radius (fSteeringLock) and a buttery smooth suspension. Then I upped the horsepower multiplier up by 90% and torque up by 120%. This completely transformed this car into a cruise missile (I use this set up for the Schwartzer and the IV Schafter as well). Without traction control (basically without any transmission mods) it wheelspins for days and smokes tires and powerslides when you're pushing it. 738lbft of torque to the rear wheels. But past the launch (or with traction control), the car is just smooth. As smooth as a base Schafter but quieter. And yet, from a rolling start, if you floor it, it pulls like a MF. As seen here in this video (where you can also hear the sound and the MPH):

 

 

Next, I worked on that offset. VStancer fixed that. Once again... I cannot believe the way that this car looked ever made it past a quality check. How? Why? Who? Ultimately, sound and handling aside, the suspension was THE reason I could never keep this car in GTA:Online. It didn't matter if I pretended this was a Schafter V8, loved the sound, or loved driving it. Whenever I looked at the rear or the side profile.. my god. Garbage. Just... why? It's a shame that you have to mod the game to fix something that a college-educated, experienced modeler/developer got PAID to do. Unbelievable. All of the mods I've done to vehicles have been mere fixes. No kidding. Part of the Schafter V12s issue is the design of the wheel arches, but if you look closely from the side, the car actually is leaning further towards the ground than the front. Simply tilting it forward and pushing the rear wheels out a little makes it look perfectly fine. It was really that simple...

 

50649074913_1d7d3b60b2_k.jpg

 

The next thing I changed was a little pet-peeve of mine. The Schwartzer has V12 badges. the Dubsta has V12 badges. The IV Schafter has V12 badges. The Schafter V12? Nah. 🤦‍♂️ So, I requested that someone skilled in ZModeler apply some V12 badges. Because in real life when you see that V12 badge on an AMG Merc (well V12 BiTurbo IRL), you know it means business. It just looks cool. I like badges, I like it when a brand subtly advertises a cars performance figures or engine size, etc. It's just cool. So I figured... why not on the Schafter V12. This car, aesthetically, is perfect to me. It looks sharp, after the suspension was fixed it has presence, the roof can be made black/carbon, the W221 S-Class styled interior can be colored, etc. All it needed was the badge.

 

50649823336_eddb0fb185_k.jpg

 

So...

 

With everything perfected; the sound, the handling, the looks - I wanted to do something that looked special. Stock, but special. I was inspired to do this spec because of someone I follow on Instagram (He owns a lot of very special cars, including a designo brown E63 AMG S Estate and more). He picked up this very special, very rare example of the W221 S65 AMG:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2011-mercedes-benz-s65-amg-2/

 

2011_mercedes-benz_s65_amg_1552339466680

2011_mercedes-benz_s65_amg_1552338888f87

2011_mercedes-benz_s65_amg_15523393142af

 

designo Mystic Blue (deep blue) over designo Porcelain (off-white) leather. This is very special because most S65s from the W221/W220-gen are just black. Out of all of the 65s I've seen (and as a car spotter, there's only been a few) only a couple were silver, one white, one grey. None any color of any sort. Any colorful 65 (S/SL/CL, whatever) is very hard to find. The owner seems to enjoy it very much. And so I used it as the basis for my Schafter V12 spec.

 

50649824961_7785c3f1e0_k.jpg

 

Doing an off-white interior was easy, and by default, certain parts of the Schafter's interior are black so that worked out perfectly. And then the color was also easy. The RGB: , , . And then the wheels. Standard Schafter V12 wheels are pretty accurate and good looking, however the W222 S65 AMG provided many more wheel options and gave the S65 a more bespoke look. So... I just chose some Schwartzer wheels. I think, well, it came out sharp.

 

50649823106_53a541dc2c_k.jpg

 

It is quite a mouthful for just a GTA car. It is just a video-game. Well... 🤡 as someone mostly busy these days, and as someone who finally games on PC, I just love to configure stuff to my liking so when I do find the time to play, I have a very good time. It's the ultimate immersion for me to play a GTA the way I want. It's been great, tbh. Out of all of the other cars I've tweaked, and all of the lore-friendly cars I've downloaded, this is probably still my favorite car in the game.

People Always looked at me funny when I said that the engine sound of this car not only sounds wrong for a V12...But it also sounds way too quiet.

 

Engine start up sound is amazing, and if the car was as loud as when it starts up I wouldn't have a problem with the rest of it(awful rear suspension fitment, terrible outdated interior with terrible color palette layout)...But as soon as its accelerating it sounds like the car is not getting past 2500 rpm with only like 30% of the throttle being, it's like there's no load on the engine...Its not loud, its quiet and almost too docile.

 

The Schwartzer has a much more louder and audible sound...f*ck it, the f*cking original Schafter has a much louder engine sound than it!

 

And regarding your post: Very nice builds and the correction you did on the rear suspension is perfect.

 

Also, I would have looked at the engine sound of the Schwartzer as that one also kinda sounds like a V12 much better than this "V12" sound.

Edited by Pedinhuh
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4 hours ago, Pedinhuh said:

Also, I would have looked at the engine sound of the Schwartzer as that one also kinda sounds like a V12 much better than this "V12" sound.

I wanted to use the Schwartzer sound but unfortunately with menyoo, it won't play the Schwartzer sound on other cars for some reason. It is a good sound though, just doesn't have enough of that V12 sound to it for my liking.

 

Anyway, I still enjoy this car quite frequently. And I've since made the Dubsta and Serrano (also has V12 badges) sound and feel similar.

 

But cars like this really make me realize Rockstar doesn't know anything about engines or how they sound. They'll just slap V8 or V10 or V12 badges on anything and make it sound like sh*t and have underwhelming performance.

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  • 1 month later...
DanDaFreakinMan

uZGSm8VcS0etiKkGhtGrBg_0_0.png

Not Schafter V12, but like I could find a thread for regular Schafter in 2021 lol

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  • 1 month later...
ChorizoBlanco

After 6 years, there are still issues with the suspension lol. I sent Rockstar a ticket today, but I highly doubt it'll change anything. While it's my favourite vehicle and I have both V12 and LWB versions, I can not just ignore this.

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1 hour ago, ChorizoBlanco said:

After 6 years, there are still issues with the suspension lol. I sent Rockstar a ticket today, but I highly doubt it'll change anything. While it's my favourite vehicle and I have both V12 and LWB versions, I can not just ignore this.

Yeah it's pathetic. All they'd have to do is raise the rear a little like I did with Vstancer in story mode... but it is a more fundamental issue in which the rear is both sagging and the rear wheel arches are too low. Very lazy designing.

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ChorizoBlanco
12 minutes ago, ddarko12 said:

Yeah it's pathetic. All they'd have to do is raise the rear a little like I did with Vstancer in story mode... but it is a more fundamental issue in which the rear is both sagging and the rear wheel arches are too low. Very lazy designing.

I think the issue is not the rear suspension but with the suspension of the one sides. If you pay close attention, the rear suspesion on the right or left side is actually cool as in the wheel not being covered by the bumper. It was mentioned in another post that the car handles differently depending on whether you're turning right or left, truly pathetic.

I can put up with the rear suspension being lower, but I can't stand it not being symmetrical lmao.

Edited by ChorizoBlanco
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1 minute ago, ChorizoBlanco said:

I think the issue is not the rear suspension but with the suspension of the one sides. If you pay close attention, the rear suspesion on the right or left side is actually cool as in the wheel not being covered by the bumper. It was mentioned in another post that the car handles differently depending on whether you're turning right or left, truly pathetic.

Ooof I wish I didn't read that lmfao. I'm gonna go check it out when I get home. Can't believe how they butchered this car.

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18 hours ago, ChorizoBlanco said:

I think the issue is not the rear suspension but with the suspension of the one sides. If you pay close attention, the rear suspesion on the right or left side is actually cool as in the wheel not being covered by the bumper. It was mentioned in another post that the car handles differently depending on whether you're turning right or left, truly pathetic.

I can put up with the rear suspension being lower, but I can't stand it not being symmetrical lmao.

You probably just ruined this whole car for me and I'm scared of finding out that now.

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Marciliojunior01

Is this issue present in the armored version as well ? Most likely it is but who knows. 

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Source-Ge-Force-SHARE-B64-ey-JEUl-NBc-HB

 

Well... no matter what I'll still love the design of this car. I might ask someone to fix that offset suspension though (and this might be something ppl don't wanna hear but the Schlagen's suspension was also bugged).

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ChorizoBlanco
4 hours ago, Marciliojunior01 said:

Is this issue present in the armored version as well ? Most likely it is but who knows. 

Yep.

 

3 hours ago, ddarko12 said:

Source-Ge-Force-SHARE-B64-ey-JEUl-NBc-HB

 

Well... no matter what I'll still love the design of this car. I might ask someone to fix that offset suspension though (and this might be something ppl don't wanna hear but the Schlagen's suspension was also bugged).

Someone as in a Rockstar employee or a fix for singleplayer?

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35 minutes ago, ChorizoBlanco said:

Yep.

 

Someone as in a Rockstar employee or a fix for singleplayer?

Fix for single player. Unfortunately Rockstar doesn't seem interested in fixing cars aside from nerfing them lol. For single player, a lot of people have made a lot of mods to fix bugs and things Rockstar overlooked. It's really amazing how some random can fix what Rockstar doesn't even bother to acknowledge exists.

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ChorizoBlanco
3 hours ago, ddarko12 said:

Fix for single player. Unfortunately Rockstar doesn't seem interested in fixing cars aside from nerfing them lol. For single player, a lot of people have made a lot of mods to fix bugs and things Rockstar overlooked. It's really amazing how some random can fix what Rockstar doesn't even bother to acknowledge exists.

They first told me to verify the integrity of the files and then to do a clean reinstall. I - of course - did neither of these but I will reply again if they suggest more dumb stuff to try or if I get a proper answer.

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Marciliojunior01
On 12/1/2021 at 1:37 AM, ChorizoBlanco said:

They first told me to verify the integrity of the files and then to do a clean reinstall. I - of course - did neither of these but I will reply again if they suggest more dumb stuff to try or if I get a proper answer.

People from R support mostly only know simple fixes to server errors and money related stuff. None of them have a single clue about suspension geometry of the cars. 

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  • 1 month later...
DanDaFreakinMan

0_0.png


Not Schafter V12, but I figure I could drop its brothers here as well since I couldn't find an appropriate forums for them, and making new forums is just redundant here. Plus who the hell want a Schafter LWB (Armored) Appreciation Thread?? 

Schafter LWB 
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Schafter LWB (Armored) 
0_0.png

Schafter V12 (Armored) 
0_0.png

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