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AlienTwo

Star Trek

Recommended Posts

Flash525

What a mess. I don't see why they couldn't have gone for the Abrams look; those Klingons had appeal. These things? They look like a joke!!

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AlienTwo

There have been a ton of released pertaining to the new stuff, but this I think is one of the most interesting and kind of encapsulates all the changes to the Klingons; I hereby present you all 6 of you the New D'k Tagh (old by its side for comparison):

 

 

 

FB_IMG_1500572320248.jpgStar-Trek-The-Next-Generation-Klingon-D-

 

 

 

EDIT: Jesus those are big pics... sorry folks.

Edited by AlienTwo

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Flash525

I don't have a problem with the Klingon Weapons. It's the Warriors (specifically their appearance) wielding them that troubles me.

Edited by Flash525

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AlienTwo

I don't have a problem with the Klingon Weapons. It's the Warriors (specifically their appearance) wielding them that troubles me.

Did you read the below article? It talks more about the plans for the redesign and the why (doubtful it'll allay all your doubts, but might get you a touch more comfortable with the possibilities);

 

http://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-klingons-differences/

Edited by AlienTwo

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Flash525

 

I don't have a problem with the Klingon Weapons. It's the Warriors (specifically their appearance) wielding them that troubles me.

Did you read the below article? It talks more about the plans for the redesign and the why (doubtful it'll allay all your doubts, but might get you a touch more comfortable with the possibilities);

 

http://screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-klingons-differences/

 

 

I read that article yesterday, not from the same place (I don't think) but the text is the same. Either way, it's an excuse, and a poor one at that. Simple having these Klingons from a different house, is, I feel, a cop-out. I still believe it was a mistake not to have this show as a reboot rather than a prequel, at least then the explanation for these Klingons could be justified somewhat (even if they do look hideous).

 

Should have gone with the Abrams Klingons in my opinion; those guys looked menacing. These new ones look cheap and tacky.

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Spaghetti Cat

a2, you may hate me for this, but right now the Seth McFarland show on FOX is looking the better of the two. I think he 'gets' it where Discovery is more interested in being this dark brooding atmosphere-type show. I hope to be wrong, but CBS seems to have screwed the pooch on this one. /my2

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AlienTwo

I may not agree, but I don't hate anyone (for their Star Trek opinion, hell it means you love and respect it and have a specific vision for it's success). IDIC.

 

I too am excited for the Orville, Seth is a huge Trekkie, hell he's even a lucky Trekker, and looks like it'll pay some serious homage to the franchise, like Galaxy Quest did. I can't imagine any comedy filling that specific blank niche in my life though, not the way Star Trek can. I'll admit, the new movies, while great and with an excellent ship design (however screwed on the ratios...) also didn't fill that niche. This Star Trek really speaks to me. When i first saw it, from that leaked image on set, i didn't like a lot of the Klingon aesthetic, looked a little too wiry, too "Chronicles of Riddick" Necromancer-esque, but its starting to really grow on me, I'm getting excited for a deeper Klingon culture and a more realistic view of things. I think it's too early to tell if the writing and story-telling is up to the task of making us accept accept these changes and integrate them into the zeitgeist or not. Failure of that, I'll only hope for financial success so they'll be motivated to try more, new and different Trek. Maybe one of them will ring true... until then, I'm hoping for the best.

 

As a pallet cleanser:

 

 

MxalO1Q_zpsn2bfqf4m.gif

 

 

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Commander S

I'm just finding it all a bit 'Kelvin-y', to be honest - occasional retro throwbacks dotted in here and there, but with much more overwrought design as standard. There's a whole lot of stuff, from the revised version of the Discovery, to the uniforms, that all feels frankly ...illogical. And compared to things like Enterprise and the Abrams movies, it's probably the furthest in terms of reinventing stuff for reinvention's sake, regardless of fitting in with the period they're still trying to sell it as fitting into.

Which is all just cosmetic, sure - but I'm also getting alarm bells going off from things like Lt. Saru. "My people were biologically determined for one purpose alone: to sense the coming of death" - really? :dontgetit: I know that there's been follow-up descriptions, that his species is effectively a 'prey species' on his planet, and so 'sensing the coming of death' is more just 'really, really heightened senses', and possibly not 'I can predict something like Nagilum suddenly popping out of the ether and frying someone's brain 30 seconds from now'. But I'm wary that what it'll mean in a storytelling sense is simply 'I'm the character who makes grave proclamations whenever the sinister music kicks in, and we need to have someone deliver some expository dialogue about how everything's gone belly-up'.

That, and the Vulcan stuff looks a bit like the hackneyed things in the 2009 movie, and so much of the earlier Enterprise stories (and even in later TNG-era things like 'Take Me Out To The Holosuite', to be fair): Vulcans with 'emotional restraint' conveyed through being 'judgmental pricks', particularly to non-Vulcans. I miss the nuance and pragmatism of Nimoy as Spock - the idea that he's not just either 'emotionless' or just pissy and priggish (something I hated about Zach Quinto's performance in the 2009 film), but just a model of calm and reason, yet still not averse to wry humour, either. There have been other examples of this done right - Tuvok, for the most part, and the whole 'let's undo the damage of the first few seasons' Vulcan arc in the final season of Enterprise (Soval was so much better in that single storyline, and they did a great job with Surak, too). I'm not holding out hope for anything that layered here, unfortunately. :/

 

 

I dunno - maybe it's the influence of people higher up at CBS, maybe it's Alex Kurtzman or someone else in charge not 'getting' Trek (or not even trying to), but this feels 'off' in too many ways, from the 'let's reinvent the wheel' approach to the look of the show, to snippets of dialogue that don't fill me with confidence about where they're going in terms of story and world-building. At best I'm wrong about the latter, and I'll just have to wince my way through the costumes and sets, and focus on the story beats. But part of me instead thinks that this is going to just completely miss the point of the entire franchise - I really, really hope we're not getting some drawn-out single-storyline thing, where there's no room for more episodic stories that can explore different themes and ideas each time. Which is annoying, because not only is it high time we had a proper Trek series back on the air, but I was so very looking forward to one with a cast of this calibre.


As for The Orville, it looks ...fine, if a little obvious gag-wise - I'm reminded most of A Million Ways to Die in the West, but riffing on Trek (particularly TNG) instead of being a Western parody. As such, I predict it's not exactly going to be subtle - I'm not expecting it to be the next Galaxy Quest in terms of 'not swinging at the easy ones'. Might be funny, might get old fast... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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AlienTwo

Instead of re-hashing all of that, I'm going to cherry-pick a few things: I loved Tuvok but he was the quintessential judgmental prick and seemed more annoyed about everything going on around him than just emotionless.

 

I read an article about how Saru is supposed to be the "outsider" in the vein of Spock and Data and this I disagree with 100%.. Spock and Data both sought to learn what it was to be human, Data an outsider wanting in, Spock being half human and trying to reconcile that with his vulcan side, very analytical in a deeply personal level. Unless Saru is for some reason on a quest to also become human, no matter how interesting he may be, he won't fill that role. Even Odo and 7 of 9 both sought to learn about being human for reasons of self-discovery, with Odo it was more "humanoid" but still the main archetypes he described as humanoid were pretty damned human. I could be proven wrong, but I don't see how a developed separate species could seek to believably learn this. It seems to me that Commander Burnham would be a more likely candidate to fill the "Outsider wanting to get in" role, and as her being the focus of the show I think that element will make this feel very much Trek.

 

The "prey species" thing actually set me at ease a bit as the "biologically determined to sense death" was odd, and I hear you on the overly dramatic exposition bit, but what show doesn't need some drama?

 

 

And come one guys, seriously, not even a "like" for that amazing gif?? Savages.

 

ezgif-2-6aa99fa5b4_zps7im7eny0.gif

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Commander S

Lol - you definitely get a like for that one. ;)

And the prey thing does make more sense - I'm just worried about that old hallmark of lazy writing (particularly in sci-fi): 'the thing which makes no plausible sense, other than to serve as a specific plot device'. Heck, that was the whole gag behind Galaxy Quest's 'Omega 13'! :pp

As for the 'outsider looking in' thing, I'd argue does the show even need one? Spock had a degree of 'outsider-ness' to him, but not in the same 'searching' sense as the likes of Odo or Data. In a way, Spock's more unique cultural explorations as one of the few non-human characters were more like Worf - particularly the Ron Moore Worf stories. Like you say, Burnham's coming across more like that - I just hope Saru isn't more like some of the one-note alien characters in some of the weaker Berman-era stories, where their entire personality could be defined by/as their species' signature gimmick.


Personally, I kinda feel they missed a trick not making him an updated, 'all the benefits of modern CGI' version of Arex's species from TAS... ;)

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AlienTwo

I think something Trek, and all sci-fi, GOOD sci-fi, does is make us examine what it means to be humans. I agree that spock wasn't searching like the others, but I do think he was constantly examining what it means to be human, if sometime to avoid it, but still he was seeking to understand humanity in a deeply personal level, something that Neelix, Kes, T'Pol, Phlox... never had. They were more observers, still learning but on a surface level. I really liked the episodes where the outsiders really dug into being human, so many good questions examinations done there.

 

I agree though, I do not want more one-dimensional aliens, the Cardassians were a great example multi-layered aliens that made GREAT foils for the feds. That is why I'm excited about the new depth they appear to be adding to the Klingons. All my fears are on the backburner, because if this show sucks, I at least want to have the joy of excitement ahead of time, if that be the only excitement we get from this series, I'm living it la vida Risa.

 

bTmSyUH.jpg

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Commander S

In a way, I think Firefly had a good handle on the 'ensemble cast in space as a means of exploring philosophical themes and the human condition' - certainly in terms of the underlying approach. I remember reading something by Joss Whedon where he summed up his pitch for the show as "nine people looking into the blackness of space and seeing nine different things". With the best Trek, it felt like that approach, but on a per-story basis: take a handful of the different characters on the ship, create a scenario, plonk them in, and see how those characters react differently, and off each other. Bit like taking different chemicals, and seeing how they react in different environments.

DS9 never gets old for me, because it did that so well, and consistently. And of course, that's similar to the great Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic, too: the 'decision-making triangle' that was so useful as a means of exploring the ideas of any particular story.

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AlienTwo

Re-watching DS9 right now, just did the episode where they capture the Jem'Haddar bug ship and O'Brien's buddy dies.

 

Got all teary-eyed at the end when the Chief is keeping watch over the body and Worf enters and says "We will both keep the predators away."

 

F*ck DS9.... but in a good way, sweetly, softly, with love. It just rips me apart often. Like "The Visitor".

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PicardsBong

There have been a ton of released pertaining to the new stuff, but this I think is one of the most interesting and kind of encapsulates all the changes to the Klingons; I hereby present you all 6 of you the New D'k Tagh (old by its side for comparison):

 

 

EDIT: Jesus those are big pics... sorry folks.

I told Alien in PM that the new Klingons made me a wee bit nervous for the direction Discovery was heading but I failed to mention I thought the new D'KTagh set my heart aflutter. That thing is badass and totally something Worf would use to slaughter the dishonorable. I love it! This could be good, certainly.....

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AlienTwo

The new weapons really look like they are made by a people who respected them and want to make battle a thing of "beauty". The old ones are so flat and boring in parts, def cranked out of a props department. The artistry in the new ones make SO much more sense... like Japanese weapons, the ritual of creation for the tool is almost as important as the usage.

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AlienTwo

And here it is, fresh from SDCC, the New Trailer:

 

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Spaghetti Cat

That sure is...something.

 

 

slightly OT:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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feckyerlife

And here it is, fresh from SDCC, the New Trailer:

 

Im surprised how good it looks considering most network shows come with a side of cheese.

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AlienTwo

That sure is...something.

 

 

slightly OT:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Worf never struck me as the kind of security chief that Picard would want.

 

I love Worf, don't get me wrong....

 

Liked for TNG vid.

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Spaghetti Cat

This was something I was thinking about the other day. Looking at the popular sci-fi in movies/tv these days most of the properties are actually old ideas. Star Trek is over 50 years old. Star Wars is getting up there. Battlestar is from the 70's era. Heck the most recent I could come up with was the Matrix films, and those are being prequeled or something. Even the Valerian film that just came out is based on an old comic in France.

 

My point is that these are old ideas that are just being reheated over and over again. It may be good, but it sure isn't fresh. And that's what frustrates me about this Fuller situation. He actually wanted to try something new here with the anthology idea. That's great, that's fresh thinking, and CBS nixed it.

 

Coming up with something new, and something that works, is really hard. And I understand why big companies don't want to take risks and just play the safe route. I really hope that there is enough good ideas and follow through for this new series to work. But at the same time this doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence.

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AlienTwo

This was something I was thinking about the other day. Looking at the popular sci-fi in movies/tv these days most of the properties are actually old ideas. Star Trek is over 50 years old. Star Wars is getting up there. Battlestar is from the 70's era. Heck the most recent I could come up with was the Matrix films, and those are being prequeled or something. Even the Valerian film that just came out is based on an old comic in France.

 

My point is that these are old ideas that are just being reheated over and over again. It may be good, but it sure isn't fresh. And that's what frustrates me about this Fuller situation. He actually wanted to try something new here with the anthology idea. That's great, that's fresh thinking, and CBS nixed it.

 

Coming up with something new, and something that works, is really hard. And I understand why big companies don't want to take risks and just play the safe route. I really hope that there is enough good ideas and follow through for this new series to work. But at the same time this doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence.

The Expanse is a GREAT new show based on a relatively new book series.

 

I am bummed to hear all this about Fuller, laugh at me or whatever, but I actually cried at his speech regarding Star Trek at last year's comic con when he was the show-runner announcing the new show. It was beautiful and the true spirit of Trek.

 

 

 

I still have hope for this because without hope, what the hell is left in this Trump dystopia.

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Saggy

 

And here it is, fresh from SDCC, the New Trailer:

 

Im surprised how good it looks considering most network shows come with a side of cheese.

 

That didn't look too great to me... I think the music was a bad choice.

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Flash525

The Expanse is a GREAT new show based on a relatively new book series.

I'll echo this; the Expanse is a great sci-fi show. It's got everything from political drama, the humour, and gets right down to the dark and gritty nature of survival and corporation greed.

Edited by Flash525

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AlienTwo

 

The Expanse is a GREAT new show based on a relatively new book series.

I'll echo this; the Expanse is a great sci-fi show. It's got everything from political drama, the humour, and gets right down to the dark and gritty nature of survival and corporation greed.

 

Just bought the first two books yesterday, can't wait to start reading because as well all know, the books are always better.

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Spaghetti Cat

Ahh I had forgotten about The Expanse, haven't seen much of the show other than a bit here or there. So yeah, calls for new ideas then doesn't support them, this guy right here.

 

Been getting back into the RedLetterMedia videos, this one reminded me of the conversation here about ST. The rest of the videos are pretty good, but this first one pretty well sums it up for me:

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/8ZjkHUrEuHc?list=PL2CCF5FDA9CEEBDB8

 

 

Once again I really hope to be wrong about all of this and that CBS blows away everyones current expectations.

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AlienTwo

Time marches on, things, cultures... they change. It really blows my mind how hard Trekkies, people who love a franchise all about the human capacity for change, can't deal with actual change. How they want to live in the past, the 60's, the 80's.... it's all about that journey into the great unknown, be it the future or uncharted realms of space.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2g9sfhtBRo

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Commander S

^ I honestly think (and I've been thinking this ever since the Berman years fizzled out with a whole lot of the same old same-old, over a decade ago) that Trek really needs to approach storytelling with the same broad attitude as the '60s original - i.e., treating 'to boldly go where no man has gone before' as shorthand for 'we're going to take the audience to somewhere new each story'.

 

Or, to borrow from a show that came a few years before Trek,

;)

 

In other words, assume the audience knows nothing about Trek, and don't likewise try and cash in on name-recognition for things like Khan, or ...Sarek. Do we really need to have the new production design team put 'their' stamp on Klingons, Romulans, Starfleet, etc.? Or perhaps just put the established stuff into the background, and have the crew meet interesting new peoples and cultures, rather than just re-iterating on Star Trek Name Brand Things™. That's one of the big failings of Voyager, IMO - you had this amazing set-up to completely shake up everything that wasn't the crew of the ship, in totally fresh space, and yet so much of it fell back into riffing on the late-TNG formula.

 

And yeah, a new thing isn't going to win me over with needlessly over-designed revamps of everything on the visual side - and least of all a bunch of action-heavy shooty-bangs. There are other things that do that all the time - Star Trek, more than anything, lives on the strength of things like themes, character studies, philosophical frameworks, etc., and I just don't see a straight-up action focus as being able to accomplish that. :/

 

 

I dunno, maybe there's going to be more to Discovery than just following in the footsteps of things like the two Abrams movies with more subtext-free romping. I'm just not getting many signs of that from any of what I've seen - particularly with Fuller our, and with Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman (yes, the Batman & Robin guy!) at the helm. I totally agree that fans wanting a return to familiar formula is antithetical to what made classic Trek actually work (i.e., a constant reinvention away from formula) - I'm just worried that the only change from that we're getting these days is adherence to a much more generic formula instead.

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AlienTwo

Star Trek, more than anything, lives on the strength of things like themes, character studies, philosophical frameworks, etc., and I just don't see a straight-up action focus as being able to accomplish that. :/

This right here is 100% the heart, soul and everything that makes Star Trek great. THIS is what gets me teary eyed ever goddamned time I watch "The Visitor" from DS9 and "Inner Light" from TNG, THIS is what gets me excited when i see "Duets" is airing, or "The Drumhead", "Measure of a Man", "Equinox" or "Dear Doctor". This is also why I personally am so moved by this franchise; examination of us as a people through such varied and creative lenses.

 

And I also agree about the old characters, the Khan reveal was such a waste, and despite the team saying "You don't need to know anything about Star Trek to understand and enjoy this movie" that name drop scene is 100% flat and useless without the prior knowledge the team said wasn't required. I was taken aback and disappointed when they announced 2 things about Disco so far, Sarek's involvement and the timing of the show. Nothing in this world is perfect, so I'm hoping the action will be fun (because it can be and not ruin Star Trek) and the stories and examinations will be deep and meaningful.

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