Turkey shoots down Russian jet

[Fireman]

Oh no my airspace. Soon we'll be all out of airspace.

Where would we fly then? Underwater?

 

What I do wonder is why Russia doesn't want to blame Turkey's F16 but say it was shot down from fire from the ground?

Edited December 2, 2015 by Fireman

[sivispacem]

Because they hate the idea of their aircraft being drastically inferior to Western competitors. Even though pretty much everyone knows they are. Only a small proportion of the Russian Air Force is even airworthy.

[K1FFLOM]

The West is the Best.

 

-not-

 

In Germany one says: "Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall !" Sorry, but no idea what it translates to. Too early here.

I'll write later.

[Shaundi]

Jesus christ. I went full on dyslexic.

 

I thought i read ''Russian Jet shoots down Turkey."

[Shyabang Shyabang]

"Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall!"

 

-> Pride comes before a fall!

[K1FFLOM]

It's not "pride" though...

The German word for it would be "stolz".

 

To describe "hochmut" would be, if you see yourself looking down on other people in an arrogant and ignorant way.

[GTA36362355]

Jesus christ. I went full on dyslexic.

 

I thought i read ''Russian Jet shoots down Turkey."

Be grateful you didn't read russian turkey shoots jet.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Mister Kay

[TheMcSame]

So apparently Putin has ordered the Russian military to take "extremely tough" action against any threat to its forces in Syria. Stating that such targets must be "immediately destroyed".

 

While it wasn't clearly aimed at anyone, there's no doubt that it's a warning against Turkey and possibly other NATO members.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35070354

[Sombra]

 

Jesus christ. I went full on dyslexic.

 

I thought i read ''Russian Jet shoots down Turkey."

Be grateful you didn't read russian turkey shoots jet.

 

 

i was gonna post a photoshop of a turkey holding a rpg but i didnt wanna get banned

[GTA36362355]

I wanted to photoshop Mama Murphy's face on that Turkey but didn't know how.

[alex8ball]

Russians dont speak turkish, but about 20% of Turks speak russian. The speed of jet is too high to being detected on that Turkey's territory and shooted operatively.Looks like it is ambush. We got muslims in Russia and they are more civilized than in arab countries. Sometimes i look on terrorists and think "what an animal i see!" Give them a nuclear weapon and whole world would be in ass. Turkey is in Nato block as you know. That strike could be cause of new world war and it is not good for all except USA))) peace to our homes.

Russians dont speak turkish, but about 20% of Turks speak russian. The speed of jet is too high to being detected on that Turkey's territory and shooted operatively.Looks like it is ambush. We got muslims in Russia and they are more civilized than in arab countries. Sometimes i look on terrorists and think "what an animal i see!" Give them a nuclear weapon and whole world would be in ass. Turkey is in Nato block as you know. That strike could be cause of new world war and it is not good for all except USA))) peace to our homes.

[GTA36362355]

To say that Muslims in a particular country are more or less civilized than in another area or countries is generalization beyond rationality. Level of social development is much more dependent on a people's economic condition than their religion and societies everywhere have the basic 3 or 5 economic classes.

 

I do agree with you that the downing seems premeditated but I do not understand how that could be beneficial to any other country other than probably Turkey itself seeing that the event has only done more in taking away attention from ISIS's oil smuggling infrastructure and diverting the attention to Russia-Turkey relations and how efforts should be made to de-escalate the tension.

 

USA has maintained in its state department briefings that Turkey's government is clean and there are no links between the govt and ISIS in terms of oil smuggling, i.e. the govt is not 'complicit'. I'm still watching out for how the Saudi led coalition (of which Turkey is a major partner) works out and their nature of diplomacy with the West and the Russians.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Mister Kay

[Ai®a©ob®a]

The speed of jet is too high to being detected on that Turkey's territory and shooted operatively.Looks like it is ambush.

That is so far from the truth it isn't funny, Radars especally Govertment/ Miliatary Radars can see quite high in the sky so unless the Russian Jet was flying to the edge of space it can be see on Radar and even then i am sure there are some radars that can see that far.

 

I doubt very much it was an ambush like Mister Kay has already said Turkey has nothing to gain from shooting down a Russian Jet not to mention Turkey had no idea the state that jet flew under until after Russia announced it was their jet so it could've been a jet from any other country flying air raids that could've been shot down so no it wasn't an ambush.

 

Dispite Russia claims that it didn't fly into Turkish airspace it did and allthough the pilot and navigator might not have done it on purpose they did and it could have been the fault of their GPS system, The type of GPS systems used in Russian Fighters are well known to not be 100% correct it has a margin of about 15% which is more than enough for the Russian Jet to fly into Turkey airspace but think they were still in Syria.

 

So it was more or less an accident intrusion of Turkey airspace rather than on purpose and with Turkey shooting down the plane they were protecting their airspace which they have every right to do and claimed they gave the Russian Jet several warnings to get out of Turkey airspace.

[GTA36362355]

No, I didn't say that. I actually said the opposite but that's just my opinion. On the other hand, shooting down a jet for an incursion of 17 seconds seems like over-kill and no matter which side of the border it was, shooting down a jet is an act of war which is generally premeditated/planned. If Greece was shooting down jets with that argument of defense, Turkey wouldn't have an air-force right now.

 

Turkey does have to gain, as I said, if they are/were gaining from the ISIS oil smuggling and it was very fishy that Turkey downed the jet just a day after Russians bombed a huge number of ISIS trucks transporting oil from wells to modular refineries.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12015465/Turkey-shoots-down-Russia-jet-live.html

 

Also, I don't think radars see, they technically hear?

But yeah, it was no stealth jet but a bomber and it's trajectory could be seen if it was to enter Turkish border before-hand despite its speed.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Mister Kay

[sivispacem]

There's not really much, if any evidence that Turkey as a nation state entity has gained or profited in any way from black market oil produced by IS. People seem very eager to jump to that conclusion but what cross-border oil transfer does take place is predominantly small-scale smuggling, statistically insignificant compared to the consumption of oil from other sources- most notably Russia.

[GTA36362355]

As a nation state, yes, not much to gain but what if an individual or a small body of individuals is profiting?

What if there are real traitors in Turkey instead of the ones they want to charge for treason?

Edited December 17, 2015 by Mister Kay

[Ai®a©ob®a]

No, I didn't say that. I actually said the opposite but that's just my opinion. On the other hand, shooting down a jet for an incursion of 17 seconds seems like over-kill and no matter which side of the border it was, shooting down a jet is an act of war which is generally premeditated/planned. If Greece was shooting down jets with that argument of defense, Turkey wouldn't have an air-force right now.

Ah yeah sorry, I read Doesn't instead of Does

[sivispacem]

As a nation state, yes, not much to gain but what if an individual or a small body of individuals is profiting?

What if there are real traitors in Turkey instead of the ones they want to charge for treason?

A small group of individuals profits from any kind of black market activity. Now, whether that small group has links to the Turkish government or politically connected individuals is a different question...

[GTA36362355]

Is it really a different question?

Oh but you also need to understand that the person you are talking to thinks Scarecrow from Arkham Knight is an easy personification of ISIS. I mean c'mon with all that gas attack terrorism threat to Gotham city, what else rings a bell in your head? Like a dog being trained with a bell, I look at you, waiting for my further conditioning.

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Mister Kay

[sivispacem]

Corrupt people doesn't necessarily equate to a corrupt state. Individuals close to political figures can profit from black market activity without the political administration being complicit in it, though I don't know whether the people involved are indeed political connected, hence why I asked.

[GTA36362355]

In 2014, phone recordings between the Turkish Prime Minister, father-in-law of the CEO of Calik Holding, and his son were published. In these phone calls, controversial conversations were made and it is believed that the PM is attempting to hide a suspiciously large amount of money, and he and his son makes references of moving it to Berat, and to Calik. The Prime Ministers son also states that Berat Albayrak (CEO) makes suggestions as to what moves to make with the money, suggesting he had an active involvement.

 

https://translate.google.co.in/translate?hl=en&sl=tr&u=http://www.zaman.com.tr/politika_turkiye-bu-ses-kayitlarini-konusuyor_2201893.html&prev=search

 

Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan and his son Bilal Erdogan 'alleged to be of sound recordings and published on the internet, has set the political agenda. CHP leader Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu, the party group meeting, listen to records. Erdogan's anti-corruption action after he sat at the seat brought by private plane to Istanbul and Aksaray Governor said he personally led the operation against. MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli, said he lost the legitimacy of the government, "disclosures on bribery and corruption, published on tape, video and audio recordings, the thread of the Prime Minister and the government passed already on the market." He said. BDP Co-chairman Selahattin Demirtas, the Prime Minister's 'fear of living a thief caught red-handed reflex' told the show. Sound recording, rocked the agenda of social media, video posted on YouTube were watched close to 2 and a half million people in a short period of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_YouTube

 

 

Limiting public exposure to content that may ignite social or political unrest;

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/11518004/Turkey-blocks-access-to-Facebook-Twitter-and-YouTube.html

 

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Mister Kay

[sivispacem]

Oh, he's corrupt as f*ck, but that's not evidence he's personally involved in the black market oil trade from IS occupied Iraq and Syria.

[GTA36362355]

No one has asked questions about the fact that the Turkish president's son heads one of the biggest energy companies, or that his son-in-law has been appointed energy minister. What a marvellous family business.

[TheMcSame]

So this just popped up..

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35154651

 

Russia-Turkey crisis: Sukhoi jet black box 'unreadable'

 

 

Data on the flight recorder of the Russian war plane downed by Turkey last month has so far proved to be unreadable, Russia's military has said.

 

It said the memory chips from the Su-24 bomber downed on the Syrian border were destroyed or badly damaged.

The Russians had hoped to prove the plane never entered Turkish airspace, as claimed by Ankara.

Work will continue to try to retrieve the data.

 

...

 

Some 13 of the 16 chips had been destroyed, while x-ray tests on the others showed extracting information would be impossible using normal methods.

 

Sounds a tad fishy considering that black boxes are made to withstand a lot of punishment... Though I suppose it wouldn't be impossible.

[JP1977]

"Turkey shoots down Russian jet" Probably used his mini gun or homing launcher.

[RedDagger]

f*cking hilarious I think we need a plumber on the GTA:Online section.

 

Anyway, black boxes aren't perfect, so while given the situation one could think foul play, I'd say it's not that likely.

Edited December 21, 2015 by RedDagger