Turkey shoots down Russian jet

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

 

 

If Greece shot Turkish jets down everytime they violate Greek airspace then Turkey would have no jets left.

That would be turkish problem then. The point is that the Greece should stop whining and fight back (if they consider this a threat).

 

 

So do you have like Turkish heritage or something, or do you just really hate Russia, or... what's the deal here?

 

I can't believe some of you are still taking Street Mix seriously. After his bigoted comments on homosexuality a few months ago, what would you expect. He's a bigot.

[Sunrise Driver]

Except, Russia don't fight and bomb ISIS. Makes couple of drops (out of 50-60) for the press and that's it.

 

Also, Turkey hasn't shot it out the blue. Russia has been violating turkish airspace since 3 october.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/analysis-turkey-downing-russian-jet-151124163107795.html

 

I can't believe some of you are still taking Street Mix seriously. After his bigoted comments on homosexuality a few months ago, what would you expect. He's a bigot.

Links please. I don't recall posting anything on that matter.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Street Mix

[Shmoopy]

Except, Russia don't fight and bomb ISIS. Makes couple of drops (out of 50-60) for the press and that's it.

 

They have been targeting civilians in Syria and freedom-fighters armed by the US, but mostly civilians (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/syria-monitoring-groups-russian-air-strikes-kill-400-civilians-151122063024984.html)

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCRGgDs01BM

 

 

ISIS is mostly based in Iraq, so why are they only targeting Syria ?

Edited November 26, 2015 by Shmoopy

[The Dedito Gae]

 

I can't believe some of you are still taking Street Mix seriously. After his bigoted comments on homosexuality a few months ago, what would you expect. He's a bigot.

Links please. I don't recall posting anything on that matter.

Sorry for being off-topic, but every post in that topic that was either stupid and/or homophobic was liked by you, just saying. Edited November 26, 2015 by Midnight Hitman

[DarkSavageDeathlyCloud]

ah, and the world again burns a bit brighter with never ending fire.....

[gooeyhole]

 

 

I can't believe some of you are still taking Street Mix seriously. After his bigoted comments on homosexuality a few months ago, what would you expect. He's a bigot.

Links please. I don't recall posting anything on that matter.

Sorry for being off-topic, but every post in that topic that was either stupid and/or homophobic was liked by you, just saying.

 

Being homophobic is wrong, but doesn't prohibit you from speaking on issues. Attacking ones character only strengthens their argument.

[make total destroy]

Being homophobic is wrong, but doesn't prohibit you from speaking on issues.

 

 

 

 

It certainly prevents anyone from taking you seriously.

[Sunrise Driver]

 

Being homophobic is wrong, but doesn't prohibit you from speaking on issues.

 

 

 

 

It certainly prevents anyone from taking you seriously.

 

Judging people and making assumptions by some likes on internet forum prevents you from being taken seriously.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Street Mix

[Raavi]

 

 

Except, Russia don't fight and bomb ISIS.

 

Wrong. Whilst it's true they are hitting the "moderate rebels", they are most definitely also hitting ISIS, and they are hitting ISIS where it hurts. They have actually stepped up the bombardments following the Metrojet attack. Here is footage of a bombing raid on 500 ISIS oil tankers last week, one of many recent targets. Turkey on the other hand, not so much, quite the opposite actually. In fact I'd argue that Russian interests when it comes to ISIS are much more aligned with the West than Turkey's. As it happens Erdogan isn't particularly interested in the destruction of ISIS, his primary objective is and has been destroying the Kurdish forces. Weren't it for the Turks' at best turning a blind eye whilst actively trying to cripple the only effective ground force against ISIS, at worst actively facilitating ISIS, this conflict would've played out very differently.

[MyName'sJeff]

But why would Erdogan want to get rid of the Kurds who are fighting against an organisation that basically declared war not only on humanity, but Islam which is the main religion in Turkey? That sounds incredibly stupid and basically a conspiracy theory. I don't see any political benefits that he can get out of it not to mention that there would be outburts around the world instantly and continuously. And as far as I'm concerned, Russia bombing the moderate rebels at the same time is making them look hypocritical because the rebels are also fighting against ISIS and giving their lives to save Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Something isn't right with Russia and Nato overall.

Edited November 26, 2015 by MyName'sJeff

[Ai®a©ob®a]

But why would Erdogan want to get rid of the Kurds who are fighting against an organisation that basically declared war not only on humanity, but Islam which is the main religion in Turkey? That sounds incredibly stupid and basically a conspiracy theory. I don't see any political benefits that he can get out of it not to mention that there would be outburts around the world instantly and continuously. And as far as I'm concerned, Russia bombing the moderate rebels at the same time is making them look hypocritical because the rebels are also fighting against ISIS and giving their lives to save Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Something isn't right with Russia and Nato overall.

Just because the PKK *Peshmerga* are fighting ISIS doesn't mean that they are allies, It's hard to explain but the Peshmerga has basically been labeled a terrorist group but they have a common goal with NATO in fighting ISIS and you have to remember the deal with Russia bombing the Free Syrian Army and other groups fighting ISIS they are also fighting against Assad *Syria's President) who is an ally of Russia so Russia is bombing moderate rebels as a way to help his ally.

[Shmoopy]

Something isn't right with Russia and Nato overall.

 

US/NATO arms rebels |-> Civilian | ISIS vs Al Nusra/Al Qaeda | casualties <-| Russia arms Syrian regime

 

Russia Intervenes when it realizes that Bashar is starting to lose the battle.

 

US/NATO keep their distance.

[MyName'sJeff]

Which makes no sense because the Peshmarga are not guilty of anything to make Erdogan want to get rid of them. Yes, they played a role in the overthrowing of the Iraqi government, and the relationship between Turkey and the Kurds are strained because of the fall of Saddam, but why can't they get past that because majority of the problem was caused by the west who are getting f*cked in the ass for it, and secondly, Kurds had issues with the iraqi government anyway. Turkey should call it quits with the Peshmarga and bond to further damage ISIS, not cause extra problem for Europe. This is exactly what ISIS would have wanted and probably did so that they can cause manipulation and unrest.

Edited November 26, 2015 by MyName'sJeff

[Ai®a©ob®a]

Which makes no sense because the Peshmarga are not guilty of anything to make Erdogan want to get rid of them. Yes, they played a role in the overthrowing of the Iraqi government, and the relationship between Turkey and the Kurds are strained because of the fall of Saddam, but why can't they get past that because majority of the problem was caused by the west who are getting f*cked in the ass for it, and secondly, Kurds had issues with the iraqi government anyway. Turkey should call it quits with the Peshmarga and bond to further damage ISIS, not cause extra problem for Europe. This is exactly what ISIS would have wanted and probably did so that they can cause manipulation and unrest.

The issue between the PKK & Turkey goes back alot further than 2003...

 

Maybe this will give you a better idea of what things are so strained between the two

[Raavi]

But why would Erdogan want to get rid of the Kurds

 

Kurdish independence, that's why. Erdogan's worst nightmare, a nightmare he does everything to avoid from it coming to fruition. The Kurds are the world's largest stateless ethnic minority, presenting 20-25 some percent of Turkey's population, a significant chunk of which wanting to secede. If they got real foothold in Northern Syria, it could in the eyes of Ankara stir even stronger separatism among Kurds living in the bordering predominately Kurdish southeast of Turkey and consequently threaten Turkey's territorial integrity. They pulled it off once in Iraq, Iraqi Kurdistan is for all intents and purposes an independent state, but partially under threat from Ankara haven't to this day officially declared independence from Baghdad. As said, Erdogan's primary objective is to destroy Kurdish fighters and sentiment.

 

That sounds incredibly stupid and basically a conspiracy theory.

 

I'd say the same if I had seemingly zero inkling of the conflict and the ongoing plight of the Kurds.

 

I don't see any political benefits that he can get out of it

 

You don't see how bombing Kurdish forces being the leader of a party appealing to anti-Kurdish sentiment and spreading anti-Kurdish rhetoric would net him political capital and appeal to his voter base?

[The Dedito Gae]

Judging people and making assumptions by some likes on internet forum prevents you from being taken seriously.

Wow, such an oxymoron you just posted.

[MyName'sJeff]

If 20-25% of Turkey's population want Kurdish independance, mostly being Kurds themselves probably, then he is not going to get any benefits especially when the Turkish people won't care if they want to be independant or not. There is no reason to believe that once they become an independant state, they will cause problems for Turkey because Turkey already has strong allies, has a decent military force and weapons enough to defend themselves easily and like I said, there is no reason at all for any kind of threat. They already have one thing in common and that is to destroy ISIS and continue to prove to the west and russia that they are not the bad guys and never have been. If anything, Kurds becoming independant will be even better because that way, they'll be able to grow economically and politically and have a better chance of disabling ISIS with everyone else. This is my POV.

[X S]

Yep, see? Putin understands history very well. Nothing else to see here; story's over. Time to focus our efforts on ISIS.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-targets-turkish-economy-in-retaliation-for-downing-of-warplane/2015/11/26/b0fb7fac-9433-11e5-a2d6-f57908580b1f_story.html

 

 

After talks with French President François Hollande at the Kremlin, Putin said, “We are ready to cooperate with the coalition which is led by the United States.”

[Svip]

If 20-25% of Turkey's population want Kurdish independance, mostly being Kurds themselves probably, then he is not going to get any benefits especially when the Turkish people won't care if they want to be independant or not.

How do you know the Turkish people don't care? Did you just pull that statement out of your own arse? They keep electing Erdogan, so they appear to be caring.

 

 

There is no reason to believe that once they become an independant state, they will cause problems for Turkey because Turkey already has strong allies, has a decent military force and weapons enough to defend themselves easily and like I said, there is no reason at all for any kind of threat.

Yeah, but Turkey isn't much concerned about that. They are concerned about losing territory. You clearly don't understand how prestige works.

 

 

They already have one thing in common and that is to destroy ISIS and continue to prove to the west and russia that they are not the bad guys and never have been. If anything, Kurds becoming independant will be even better because that way, they'll be able to grow economically and politically and have a better chance of disabling ISIS with everyone else. This is my POV.

That might be your point of view (and of many in the West), but it's definitely not the Turkish point of view, both politically and by the public. Unless, of course, you got any evidence to back up your claim that the Turkish people don't care about Kurdish independence.

[Coin]

 

Yeah, but Turkey isn't much concerned about that. They are concerned about losing territory. You clearly don't understand how prestige works.

 

 

 

 

He's obviously never played a Paradox grand strategy game.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

 

 

 

I can't believe some of you are still taking Street Mix seriously. After his bigoted comments on homosexuality a few months ago, what would you expect. He's a bigot.

Links please. I don't recall posting anything on that matter.

Sorry for being off-topic, but every post in that topic that was either stupid and/or homophobic was liked by you, just saying.

 

Being homophobic is wrong, but doesn't prohibit you from speaking on issues. Attacking ones character only strengthens their argument.

 

There's no argument to strengthen. And I'm sorry but I refuse to take anyone who likes homosexual hate comments seriously.

[MikeyBelic]

Turks hates Kurds. The propaganda machine has been making this possible for decades. The Kurd have done their fair deal of bad stuff to the Turks too though the Turks have been worse.

[BrownBear]

 

If 20-25% of Turkey's population want Kurdish independance, mostly being Kurds themselves probably, then he is not going to get any benefits especially when the Turkish people won't care if they want to be independant or not.

How do you know the Turkish people don't care? Did you just pull that statement out of your own arse? They keep electing Erdogan, so they appear to be caring.

 

To be fair, it's a very divisive issue. It's mainly older generations and those living in smaller cities and rural areas with high poverty, high religion and low education that provides most of Erdogans votes, most people, particularly young people and particularly in big cities and in the West of the country, are opposed to Erdogans right wing views.

[Svip]

 

 

If 20-25% of Turkey's population want Kurdish independance, mostly being Kurds themselves probably, then he is not going to get any benefits especially when the Turkish people won't care if they want to be independant or not.

How do you know the Turkish people don't care? Did you just pull that statement out of your own arse? They keep electing Erdogan, so they appear to be caring.

 

To be fair, it's a very divisive issue. It's mainly older generations and those living in smaller cities and rural areas with high poverty, high religion and low education that provides most of Erdogans votes, most people, particularly young people and particularly in big cities and in the West of the country, are opposed to Erdogans right wing views.

 

 

I am quite aware of that, but his statement seemed to indicate that the Turkish people in general just didn't care, which is hardly accurate.

[Eram]

But why would Erdogan want to get rid of the Kurds who are fighting against an organisation that basically declared war not only on humanity, but Islam which is the main religion in Turkey?

-snip-

Hence why:

 

Kurdistan (smaller version):

 

Kurdistan (largest version, with Mediterranean access):

 

Turkish natural resources (mind note those oil & gas, cement, cotton, hydro, gold and even solar resources that would shift "jurisdiction"):

 

Not even mentioning that major E-W pipeline..

Edited November 30, 2015 by Eram

[Stephan90]

Ridiculous, that the EU now wants to give 3 billion € to Erdogan for border protection with no control over what he is actually doing with the money. I can fully understand why people are fed up with the EU:

Edited November 30, 2015 by Stephan90

[Stephan90]

Turkish jets violate Greek air space

 

"Six Turkish F-16 fighter jets violated Greek air space over the Aegean Sea on Tuesday, the National Defense General Staff (GEETHA) said in a statement. According to GEETHA, a formation of six aircraft entered the Athens Information Region between Lesvos and Chios at 3.01 p.m. before splitting into two groups. Four jets flew over the island of Fourni between Samos and Chios at 3.25 p.m. while the other two flew over Makronisi and Anthropofagoi islets before flying over Agathonisi. The Turkish jets were chased off by Greek aircraft. The violations took place in the wake of a minor diplomatic spat between the two Aegean neighbors after a message on Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’s account on Monday accused Turkish jets of repeatedly violating Greek air space. “Fortunately our pilots are not as mercurial as yours [were] against the Russians,” Tsipras told his Turkish counterpart Ahmet Davutoglu in one of four tweets that were later erased in reference to Turkey’s shooting down of a Russian fighter jet flying in its national air space last week."

 

http://www.ekathimerini.com/203964/article/ekathimerini/news/turkish-jets-violate-greek-air-space

 

well well...

Edited December 1, 2015 by Stephan90

[TheMcSame]

well well...

This is certainly nothing new from Turkey, they've been at it for years.

 

[Stephan90]

I wonder if Obama would have also said "It's Grecce's right to protect its airspace" if the Greek airforce had taken down all six Turkish jets.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Stephan90

[Svip]

Considering they are both NATO allies, I would imagine that it's sort of OK.