Turkey shoots down Russian jet

[Turkish Turketarian]

This is the beginning of the demise of Europe.

Lol way to be overly dramatic.

[Stephan90]

While I don't think this single incident will start WWIII, it shows that this sort of thing can happen and did happen. In other words, it can happen again, and that could escalate.

 

This can only happen again when the NATO as a whole doesn't condemn Turkey's actions and apologise to Russia. Turkey will only do such a stupid thing whent it feels safe because of its NATO membership. Russia would accept our apology if we are honest.

[Shyabang Shyabang]

The situation is too complicated and confusing with all those different factions fighting against one another. And Europe is being dragged into this quagmire.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Shyabang Shyabang

[Sunrise Driver]

Borders should be respected, but what Turkey did was beyond extreme.

What should they do then? Allow hostile aircraft into its territory? Russian plane was warned 10 times to change its course. Now russia will think twice before pulling this s**t again.

Turkey is certainly not in a place to start crying about airspace breaches either...

a country that violates Greek airspace on pretty much a daily basis

 

The same as with Russia - until Greece takes down turkish plane, Turkey will be doing this regularly.

[860]

[Shmoopy]

Glad they did

[Stephan90]

 

Borders should be respected, but what Turkey did was beyond extreme.

What should they do then? Allow hostile aircraft into its territory? Russian plane was warned 10 times to change its course. Now russia will think twice before pulling this s**t again.

Turkey is certainly not in a place to start crying about airspace breaches either...

a country that violates Greek airspace on pretty much a daily basis

 

The same as with Russia - until Greece takes down turkish plane, Turkey will be doing this regularly.

 

 

Turkey "claimed" it warned 10 times. I would clame this too, if I shot down a jet of a nuclear power. Turkey even admitted that the jet was only 17 seconds in their airspace. According to the Turkish themselves it flew over a tiny bit of Turkish land that is almost completely surrounded by Syrian land. It doesn't matter how many times they warned the jet during this short time. A warning, while the jet had not entered Turkish airspace already and was still over Syria, means sh*t. It is not of interest.

 

If Greece shot Turkish jets down everytime they violate Greek airspace then Turkey would have no jets left.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Stephan90

[TheMcSame]

 

Borders should be respected, but what Turkey did was beyond extreme.

What should they do then? Allow hostile aircraft into its territory? Russian plane was warned 10 times to change its course. Now russia will think twice before pulling this s**t again.

 

Scramble fighter jets and escort the plane out... Shoot it down if it doesn't follow the escort?. No need to shoot down a plane that's clearly crossing a tiny portion of airspace, causing no harm and thus not hostile. The only people that would consider a non hostile target as hostile are terrorists. Not to mention the jet was shot down outside of Turkish airspace.

 

As for 10 warnings? According to Turkey, they gave 10 warnings. However, there's two sides to this story... Capt Murakhtin (the pilot that survived) claims Turkey gave no warnings. He also raises a very good point, the Turkish jets could've flown alongside the Russian aircraft and gave a visual indication of what they wanted to do if radio transmissions weren't doing anything. Something that is very likely standard practice.

 

I for one, completely agree with what Putin said about the incident

 

“This incident stands out against the usual fight against terrorism. Our troops are fighting heroically against terrorists, risking their lives. But the loss we suffered today came from a stab in the back delivered by accomplices of the terrorists,”

 

Turkey is no better than Al Queda or ISIS in my eyes, it wasn't an act of self defence, it was an act of war, an act of terrorism. Keep listening to whatever propaganda your Turkish media are throwing out there, at the end of the day, the shooting of the aircraft was unjustified. Nothing but terrorists in uniforms.

 

Unless Turkey can prove that their actions were justifiable, I'm with Russia on this one.

Edited November 25, 2015 by TheMcSame

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

Are people actually defending their decision?

 

Wow, this place just gets better and better.

[make total destroy]

[Fraizer]

This is the beginning of the demise of Europe.

[Sunrise Driver]

If Greece shot Turkish jets down everytime they violate Greek airspace then Turkey would have no jets left.

That would be turkish problem then. The point is that the Greece should stop whining and fight back (if they consider this a threat).

Edited November 25, 2015 by Street Mix

[Svip]

This is the beginning of the demise of Europe.

 

That already happened. It's called the 'first world war'. And that's purely if you look in a context of Europe diminishing its global political importance. Seriously, I sure am happy to be living today than in most of the 20th century.

 

A bit of historical context would benefit these conversations greatly.

 

 

If Greece shot Turkish jets down everytime they violate Greek airspace then Turkey would have no jets left.

That would be turkish problem then. The point is that the Greece should stop whining and fight back (if they consider this a threat).

 

 

Wouldn't that be pretty stupid, considering both Turkey and Greece are in NATO? Come to think of it, it would be pretty stupid even if Greece wasn't in NATO.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Svip

[Stephan90]

 

If Greece shot Turkish jets down everytime they violate Greek airspace then Turkey would have no jets left.

That would be turkish problem then. The point is that the Greece should stop whining and fight back (if they consider this a threat).

 

 

Wouldn't that be pretty stupid, considering both Turkey and Greece are in NATO? Come to think of it, it would be pretty stupid even if Greece wasn't in NATO.

 

 

This and that de-escalation should always be prefered over escalation if possible. The Russian jet didn't pose any significant threat.

[MyName'sJeff]

You know what? I really don't mind if Turkey's government gets into trouble with Russia. If they still don't learn their lesson, ISIS might as well make their move and go bomb their parliament. They need a bit of roasting (pun intended).

[Ai®a©ob®a]

 

If Greece shot Turkish jets down everytime they violate Greek airspace then Turkey would have no jets left.

That would be turkish problem then. The point is that the Greece should stop whining and fight back (if they consider this a threat).

 

Seriously just stop you're digging yourself into a hole. Several people have made numerous facts that shows Turkey took this a lot farther that they should have.

 

Turkey by their OWN admission said they did not know what flag that plane was flying under for all they knew it could've been an American or another NATO plane.

[TheMcSame]

So apparently Turkey released the audio of the warnings

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34929242

 

 

Assuming this is actual audio and not something recorded after, well... There are still a few problems I have with it.

 

- I counted 3 warnings, which admittedly should be more than enough. But it's far from the 10 claimed. I see no reason not to share the full clip consisting of 10 warnings.

- There is still no proof of a visual warning, again, something that should be common practice. As the pilot said, “If they'd wanted to warn us, they could have shown themselves, taking a parallel course,”.

 

Now, for obvious reasons, we have two conflicting stories when it comes to the warnings. One side said there were warnings, the other said there wasn't... It is entirely plausible that both sides are telling the truth. Turkey may have issued the warnings, but the Russian jet may have had a faulty radio unbeknownst to the crew. Thus the audio warnings weren't received, hence the need for VISUAL WARNINGS before taking action.

 

Now I'm not saying that the radio was faulty, but it's not exactly out of the question either.

 

By no means am I saying Russia's story is flawless, but Turkey's story is also rather questionable in places.

 

As for Turkey not knowing what flag the jet was under... I mean... That basically confirm the pilot's story of no visual warnings imo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Russian air force symbol is a 5 point, red star (placed on the tail and wings), I'm sure you wouldn't miss that if you got close enough to give a visual warning, again, something that should be standard practice.

Though another thought makes me believe that they did know it was a Russian plane. Would you really attack another country's fighter jet without knowing which country it was from? I very much doubt it.

 

It does raise one question though... Why is Russia stepping up their anti air defence over in Syria? I believe that Turkey is hiding much more important information from the world.

[860]

It's from Russia Insider, but I still think it's worth a watch.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnCWPeFZUxk

[slimeball supreme]

Great job, Turkey.

[Stephan90]

Obama said Turkey had the right to defend its territory and air space. He says the downing of the Russian warplane by Turkey points to an “ongoing problem” with Russia’s airstrikes in Syria. If Russia would instead concentrate its airstrikes on the Islamic State group, he said, then mistakes would be “less likely to occur.”

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates

 

Obama the Nobel Peace Prize winner, who is also top scorer in killing civilians with drones, "collateral damage", says the shootdown was justified. Then with mistake he must mean that the Russian jet was over Turkish territory (according to the side that has shot down the jet) for few seconds not the shootdown.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Stephan90

[sivispacem]

There's a theory I've heard that the inherent inaccuracy of Russia's GLONASS global navigation system (smaller satellite numbers than GPS and more satellites in the same orbit) may have been enough to cause them to cross into Turkish airspace.

 

Nice job of misrepresenting that quote, Stephan. Obama saying Turkey has a right to defend it's airspace doesn't mean their justified in shooting down the Su-24.

[Svip]

Russia is now awaiting a public apology from Turkey. Good luck with that!

Edited November 26, 2015 by Svip

[GTA_stu]

 

If Greece shot Turkish jets down everytime they violate Greek airspace then Turkey would have no jets left.

That would be turkish problem then. The point is that the Greece should stop whining and fight back (if they consider this a threat).

 

 

So do you have like Turkish heritage or something, or do you just really hate Russia, or... what's the deal here?

[Raavi]

Russia is now awaiting a public apology from Turkey. Good luck with that!

 

Of course not, because an apology would effectively be an implicit admission of guilt. In any case, they did very much shoot themselves in the foot with this stunt of theirs, they won't admit it, but they will most definitely feel it. Whilst there will not be any direct military retaliatory consequence, there will, to a lesser or greater extent, be economic retaliation, sanctions. Tourism, which was on the up after downing of the Russian airliner over Egypt, and agriculture in the shape of food import restrictions, being the sectors that most likely will firstly take a hit.

[Caysle]

 

pkk doesn't become the "good guy" just because they are against isis. let's make that clear.

 

 

 

They're not just fighting ISIS, though. They're building regional autonomy, defending the rights of women, and attempting to create a society that actually benefit it's members. Their influence in the region is a positive one.

 

Oh yeah?

 

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/nusaybinde-catismalarin-izleri-ortaya-cikti-40019240

 

Destruction is pretty much positive, too bad I haven't noticed that before. And this is just 13-day curfew lol

[make total destroy]

 

 

pkk doesn't become the "good guy" just because they are against isis. let's make that clear.

 

 

 

They're not just fighting ISIS, though. They're building regional autonomy, defending the rights of women, and attempting to create a society that actually benefit it's members. Their influence in the region is a positive one.

 

Oh yeah?

 

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/nusaybinde-catismalarin-izleri-ortaya-cikti-40019240

 

Destruction is pretty much positive, too bad I haven't noticed that before. And this is just 13-day curfew lol

 

Whoa, things being destroyed in a war!?

 

That's unheard of.

[Not A Nice Person]

 

Obama said Turkey had the right to defend its territory and air space. He says the downing of the Russian warplane by Turkey points to an “ongoing problem” with Russia’s airstrikes in Syria. If Russia would instead concentrate its airstrikes on the Islamic State group, he said, then mistakes would be “less likely to occur.”

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates

 

Obama the Nobel Peace Prize winner, who is also top scorer in killing civilians with drones, "collateral damage", says the shootdown was justified. Then with mistake he must mean that the Russian jet was over Turkish territory (according to the side that has shot down the jet) for few seconds not the shootdown.

 

lel Obama...

 

 

 

 

 

If Greece shot Turkish jets down everytime they violate Greek airspace then Turkey would have no jets left.

That would be turkish problem then. The point is that the Greece should stop whining and fight back (if they consider this a threat).

 

 

So do you have like Turkish heritage or something, or do you just really hate Russia, or... what's the deal here?

 

the flag on his profile is turkish so...

[Caysle]

 

 

 

pkk doesn't become the "good guy" just because they are against isis. let's make that clear.

 

 

 

They're not just fighting ISIS, though. They're building regional autonomy, defending the rights of women, and attempting to create a society that actually benefit it's members. Their influence in the region is a positive one.

 

Oh yeah?

 

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/nusaybinde-catismalarin-izleri-ortaya-cikti-40019240

 

Destruction is pretty much positive, too bad I haven't noticed that before. And this is just 13-day curfew lol

 

Whoa, things being destroyed in a war!?

 

That's unheard of.

 

War? That doesn't sound "positive"

[make total destroy]

The other option is be beheaded, crucified, bombed, shot, or to flee entirely. Like, the f*ck do you think is happening in Syria and Iraq? It ain't f*ckin Woodstock.

Edited November 26, 2015 by make total destroy

[X S]

In the nuclear world, it would be stupid to think this could lead to all-out war. Rather, it's best we work with the Russians, end this squabble, and to continue to fight ISIS. Putin is a student of history and knows well that US and Russia/Soviet Union have always united under a common threat, and that there's always been some fundamental interest in establishing order and stability; it was the irony of the Cold War. The dick-wagging by Turkey, however, will only weaken that commitment. Let's not give ISIS what it wants.

 

Unfortunately, there's always been a troubling relationship between the former Ottoman Empire and Russia ever since the 16th century, so should we have expected anything less? I mean honestly, did Turkey really think it was ISIS in those jets? Why are we so concerned about NATO airspace if we're fighting a common enemy? Put the damn sabres down, Turkey.

Edited November 26, 2015 by X S