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GTAGuy1995

Max Health and Damage infliction Discussion

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GTAGuy1995

OG, I think the explanation for maximum health being 176 is that at beginning when they designed the SA HUD, they used the tiny health bar (100 health) and when they wanted to have CJ's health increase over time, they made the bar extend all the way to the left to line up under the weapon icon and above dollar sign. I am pretty sure that's the explanation. If anyone knows better, please tell me. And yeah I know that stats guide, I read it a couple of months ago and here is where I found that maximum health is 176. Pretty interesting guide. Though it has some mistakes such as when your health increases, it increases by 3 and 4 points, not by 2. Maximum health doesn't decrease by dying, it actually increases but only by 2 points. I need to test this more often to confirm. The stats for recovering health are correct, however.

 

OrionSR, I am interested in something like that. Since you know a lot more about SA statistics than me, you could help me with that and I will report anything useful I find.

 

lil weasel, actually there are a lot of games that use numbers, take for example earlier FPS games and even GTA 3 and VC use health and armor numbers. A bar display may be useful to some but it's definitely useless for me since I like to know the EXACT stats. With the bar, I can only ESTIMATE the amount of health remaining.

 

Oh and since this topic was turned into a conversation about stats, might as well add in my other discoveries:

 

Maximum health always goes this way: 100 -> 103 -> 107 -> 110 -> 114 -> 117 -> 121 -> 124 -> 128 -> 131 -> 135 -> 138 -> 142 -> 145 -> 149 -> 152 -> 156 -> 159 -> 163 -> 166 -> 170 -> 173 -> 176

 

On the mobile version of SA, the maximum health at beginning of the game is 125 instead of 100, while maximum health possible is 220 instead of 176.

 

Using a mod that shows target's health in numbers, I discovered that all peds have 100 health but they take normal damage from attacks. All GTA protagonists take reduced damage from attacks. In the case of GTA 3, VC and SA (may apply to LCS and VCS as well), the player takes THREE times less damage than normal. Which is why for example a ped takes 25 damage from pistol (so the ped will die in 4 shots), while the player takes 8-9 damage (8.33 actually). In case of explosions, a ped would take 250 damage (which will usually kill him), while the player takes 83 (83.33 actually) damage from explosions. If the player would have taken normal damage from attacks, he would have died as fast as the peds.

 

EDIT: I think that's all for now. Also I decided to not create another topic but rather leave this one for all discoveries.

Edited by GTAGuy1995

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OrionSR

OrionSR, I am interested in something like that. Since you know a lot more about SA statistics than me, you could help me with that and I will report anything useful I find.

Sorry. This process in SA is much different than the structures I'm familiar with in III. I won't be able to provide the clues I was offering.

 

Keep in mind that Bamspeed's Stats FAQ was based almost entirely on observations as a player. It's proven to be a remarkably accurate guide over the years. I am still amazed at the level of detail he was able to report.

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GTAGuy1995

Yeah it's impressive what Bamspeed did with the FAQ. I am really impressed. Oh and actually a year ago I read his FAQ, not few months ago. ;)

 

Wait, are you saying there exists a max health stat in GTA 3? I know health and armor can't be maxed. I am still interested in hearing GTA 3 code as well. :pp

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OrionSR

Um, yes, maybe, but not the way you are thinking. I forget if we found a max health variable or if it's hard coded in III.

 

What I observed in III was the stamina stats. IIRC, there's a max stamina value that can increase with exercise, and a current stamina thats something like a stamina tank that refills at a rate slower than the rate of drain if sprinting full out, and a stamina tally that ticks over the next max stamina boost before resetting. I haven't been able to track down that sort of dynamic in SA. Maybe I'll find it while working on related areas of memory.

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OG Viking

Using a mod that shows target's health in numbers, I discovered that all peds have 100 health but they take normal damage from attacks. All GTA protagonists take reduced damage from attacks. In the case of GTA 3, VC and SA (may apply to LCS and VCS as well), the player takes THREE times less damage than normal. Which is why for example a ped takes 25 damage from pistol (so the ped will die in 4 shots), while the player takes 8-9 damage (8.33 actually). In case of explosions, a ped would take 250 damage (which will usually kill him), while the player takes 83 (83.33 actually) damage from explosions. If the player would have taken normal damage from attacks, he would have died as fast as the peds.

All peds have 100 HP? With a baseball bat I can kill some ped types with just two blows, and other ped types takes three or four blows.

And using guns, cops and gang members takes one more bullet than most other ped types.

 

Perhaps they all do have 100 HP. If this is true, then various attacks don't do the same amount of damage on various ped groups. Maybe some sort of damage multiplier similar to the Collision Damage Multiplier for vehicles.

 

I used to think peds had less than 100 HP, and I also thought CJ took the full damage from gunfire, because body armor and health are vanishing alarmingly fast when 2-3 enemies with shotguns, MP5s or AKs are shooting.

 

Isn't a Hand Grenade doing much more than 250 damage? It destroys vehicles that have 1000 HP.

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GTAGuy1995

Yeah, some of the peds such as cops and gang members have a slight resistance to attacks. I also noticed CJ actor in DYOM has nearly the same resistance as the player controlled CJ, one example is that NPC CJ takes 30 damage from rifle, while player controlled CJ takes 25 damage from rifle. Again, I will have to test this more since I'm not 100% sure.

 

I used to think the same thing, I always thought peds have either 25, 30 or 50 health. But it looks like they have 100, just like player, difference being the amount of damage they take. I also used to think guns do normal damage to player and yeah shotguns, machineguns and explosions can still do a lot of damage to player. Which is why for example in GTA 3, the mafia's shotguns do 33 damage to player (it is still significant amount of damage) but to peds the shotgun does full 100 damage, thus it always kills them in one shot. And only one pellet is needed to hit them to kill them. There is no difference who is dealing damage, it's who is receiving it. A ped with rocket launcher may kill another ped in one shot but the player will always take reduced damage, no matter who is dealing the damage. In this case, player will survive with 17 health (assuming health is 100).

 

I'm pretty sure there is code where no matter what vehicle is, if hit by an explosion, will catch on fire and explode instantly, no matter who caused explosion. And also what is interesting is that on my own mission I created using DYOM, I gave some enemy NPCs grenades and sometimes CJ dies instantly from ONE grenade, even though he has 100 health and in most cases he survives with 17 health. I don't understand what causes instant death here. But I do admit there are 3 NPCs that throw grenades and sometimes they can throw multiple ones at same time but I'm sure sometimes it was a single grenade that either did more damage than usual or CJ got knocked into ground and made him lose remaining health because game counts that as "falling from height". And it most likely happens when grenades are above CJ, thus "pushing" CJ into ground.

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OG Viking

How do we classify weapon power when the same weapon do different amount of damage on different people?

Is the power ratings at http://www.gtasanandreas.net/weapons/ still valid? Who knows which NPCs the authors used to test firepower. Perhaps they didn't test the guns but found the firepower data in game files.

Edited by OG Viking

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GTAGuy1995

I looked on the site and it appears that weapon damage values are correct for the most part. The ones that I am not sure are shotguns (since for me it is impossible to detect how many pellets hit the target) and explosions because it seems to be calculated differently.

 

An explosion should do 250 damage at maximum and for example I tested few days ago a NPC with rocket launcher shot at CJ, rocket hit him in face and did normal damage, CJ had 17 health remaining left. So there is no extra damage from a rocket shot. For grenades, I also noticed sometimes CJ (and NPCs too) can get hit by a grenade in head, which causes CJ to fall down and lose 4-5 health but then he is very vulnerable to the grenade that will explode close to him and cause another 82-83 damage, which means the player must have at least 88 health to survive both these things.

 

Minigun can be tested only by the player since NPCs with minigun are deadly and will kill CJ instantly. Flamethrower damage is again random, CJ affected by fire will do about 42 damage in total, so that means 125 damage to NPCs. Which is why NPCs will die just from getting caught on fire one time. The site says 25 damage but it's 125 damage, so it's definitely a mistake.

Edited by GTAGuy1995

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OG Viking

Not all explosions do the same amount of damage. Some boats and all aircrafts make large explosions.

 

I don't know if a car/bike explosion and a hand grenade explosion is similar.

 

 

Flame Thrower

 

Damage: 25, not counting subsequent damage from prolonged burning

This may very well add up to 125 damage. It sounds right.

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GTAGuy1995

That's true. But I'm sure they all do the same amount of damage, it's just that they do multiple explosions in same time, so that's why you lose more health/armor than normal. I will have to test this more times to confirm.

 

About flamethrower, again I will have to test a bit more to fully confirm since the test I did was prolonged burning (letting CJ and NPCs get burned), no matter what caused the fire (explosions, cocktails, flamethrower) so maybe that's why on site it says 25 damage only. I know in GTA 3 and VC burning did 66-67 damage to player, which means 200 damage to NPCs.

Edited by GTAGuy1995

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OG Viking

But I'm sure they all do the same amount of damage, it's just that they do multiple explosions in same time, so that's why you lose more health/armor than normal.

Aircrafts have multiple explosions, but each one of the explosions seems to have a larger damage radius compared to car explosions.

 

About boats, try to blow up a Dinghy (I believe that's the name, at least it's one of the small boats). It's one explosion but it's huge. It's a much larger damage radius than car explosions.

 

As for RPGs, the guide says it's also splash damage. I don't know how significant it is.

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OG Viking

With two similar topics, one about playing without getting health upgrades, and this topic about max health upgrades and damage, it's easy to post info in the wrong place. I'll repost my test findings here. I'm sorry about the confusion.

 

 

 

 

In water (playing on PS2), the best way to prevent the stats to change is to sprint swim without using the thumbstick.

 

 

SWIM; butterfly(?) (left joystick max forward)

05:00 minutes: Muscle +

05:00 minutes: Fat -

 

SWIM; sprint (push left joystick and hold X)

03:20 minutes: Muscle +

03:20 minutes: Fat -

 

SWIM; super sprint (push left joystick and tap X rapidly)

03:20 minutes: Muscle +

03:20 minutes: Fat -

 

SWIM; sprint hold X without using left joystick

After 32 minutes no stats had changed.

 

 

 

STAMINA and MAX HEALTH was not mentioned in my test notes, so I'm guessing it was already maxed out.

 

 

 

 

That's nice finding but for max health, if you have full health bar (176 health), then it will not max anymore. Could you please do another test but without your health maxed out? I will try in few minutes to do the thing you mentioned about alternating between saves, to see if it still remembers the counter as I still have some backup saves from the playthrough I started a couple of months ago.

I'm interested in knowing and I would like to find out, but I have so many things to test and so little time to play. I'm going to find out this eventually, but I can't say when it will be. When I do find out I will share my knowledge, but you may not want to wait that long. Performing the test may take quite some time, especially if I want to confirm that health upgrades never take place if I hold X only. Edited by OG Viking

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OrionSR

Hop any time you want to move forward on land like a multiplayer shooter? Or, roll everywhere while crouched? Although I wouldn't be surprised if these had the opposite of the intended effect.

Edited by OrionSR

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GTAGuy1995

OK I will try to do these things mentioned above and the ones I promised, to see the results. I will see later.

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OG Viking

Hop any time you want to move forward on land like a multiplayer shooter? Or, roll everywhere while crouched? Although I wouldn't be surprised if these had the opposite of the intended effect.

LOL that would be an awkward playing style.

 

Also, you can stand on car roofs if you want to get somewhere without driving (if you're going to a mission and want to be sure your car is not impounded).

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OrionSR

Also, you can stand on car roofs if you want to get somewhere without driving (if you're going to a mission and want to be sure your car is not impounded).

Impounds tend to collect vehicles they aren't supposed to. Missions tend to have small clear areas so it's probably not a problem. For big areas like the schools or triathlons having no recent vehicles at all isn't always protection against an inappropriate impounding.

Edited by OrionSR

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GTAGuy1995

So once again I got instantly killed by an explosion at 100 health. I don't know how exactly it happened but an enemy NPC shot at me with Heat-Seeking Rocket Launcher and then I died instantly. Next time I try with armor as well and then I survive the shots (whether the rocket hit my friendly NPC and I get caught in explosion or direct hit), I survive with 17 armor and 100 health. So yeah once again the explosion damage seems to work differently sometimes.

 

I have also noticed a coincidence, the old phones had the resolution 176x220. Well the funny thing is that both of these numbers are the maximum health values in SA, 176 on most platforms, 220 on mobile.

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Fooking Rekt

Hmmm about the increasing health overtime: Is it random? Can it only happen if you're excercising or also in a car?

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GTAGuy1995

Only if you are exercising I think. I haven't checked if the max health also increases while exercising at gym but I think it should. Never increases when in a car.

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TheDamnTrainCJ

What about ..Boss peds'' like Polansky, Big Smoke or your recruted gang memebers?

It needs much more shots to kill them. Do they have more health points or do they take just less demage?

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GTAGuy1995

I am sure they have more health points, like in final mission Big Smoke has probably thousands of health points but he can be killed instantly with Minigun. I did that when I completed SA for first time.

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GTAGuy1995

More discoveries (they are months old but I always forget to mention them):

 

-Eating meals restores health to full -1. If you have 100 health max, you can restore health up to 99 if you were injured. If you have 176 health max, you can restore up to 175 if you were injured. Same goes to every other max health value.

-When you reach about 10% health, you will not take damage anymore from falling from bike and from vomiting (see below), to prevent from dying that way.

-Vomiting takes 10 health points away. If you had 50 health when you were eating, eat too much and vomit, you will have 40 health after you vomit, despite healing to full during that time. I guess it's because the game is coded to make you lose all the fat you gained from meals, so you will also lose the health you gained from eating. It's also coded so if you have 10 health and eat too much, you will vomit but still have 10 health left, to prevent from dying.

-Falling from high heights (if you don't have parachute) results in losing 165 points of health. If you have health maxed out to full 176, you will survive with 11 health points.

-Hookers don't give additional health points anymore as it was in GTA 3 and VC, they will not give you more health points than your current max health. Tested few months ago with 176 health max and with 117 health max. They can only restore health.

 

EDIT: About "getting tired" stat, I noticed since years and I'm sure many noticed that but the game still remembers how much you sprint, so if you sprint a lot and then load game, you will get tired easily after running a bit. I remember that from VC, when I ran a lot, loaded game (game was saved on Vercetti Estate) I just got out of Vercetti Estate and Tommy got tired. Just like with max health stat progress in SA, the game will still remember that between saves.

Edited by GTAGuy1995

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JIM CARTER

I was checking up on the GTA San Andreas savegame editor and found there are two bars under body & skill on health. One is health which shows 176 as max(also has an option infinity) and number two is max health which shows 1000(actually max since I have completed lvl 12 paramedic missions). Can anyone tell me the difference between health and max health? the 176 value is for the bar that is shown on screen and the value decreases as you lose health but that's ok...my question is if max health value is 1000 why is the health bar value max at 176?

Please explain...I'll be extremely grateful!

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OrionSR
Posted (edited)

The health value shown in the editor, usually 176.0 in a save (if he's passed paramedic) since he's full, is CJ's current health. Be careful with those Infinite settings. These are floating point values and the infinite setting is actually infinite, which can cause overflow errors in some mods and trainers.

 

On PC, CJ's max health is 176, an integer value, and the Savegame Editor isn't manipulating this variable. What is shown as Max Health is the max health statistic. I'm not sure how it effects the game if this setting is adjusted.

 

It looks like the float stat is mainly used to display the progress towards 100% health. 569 is where it starts when his max health is 100.

Edited by OrionSR

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JIM CARTER
On 3/4/2019 at 9:46 AM, OrionSR said:

The health value shown in the editor, usually 176.0 in a save (if he's passed paramedic) since he's full, is CJ's current health. Be careful with those Infinite settings. These are floating point values and the infinite setting is actually infinite, which can cause overflow errors in some mods and trainers.

 

On PC, CJ's max health is 176, an integer value, and the Savegame Editor isn't manipulating this variable. What is shown as Max Health is the max health statistic. I'm not sure how it effects the game if this setting is adjusted.

 

It looks like the float stat is mainly used to display the progress towards 100% health. 569 is where it starts when his max health is 100.

yeah got it....the max health stat's least value is 569 which is the value 100 for on-screen health for CJ..these save game editors are really confusing sometimes! XD

Thanks a lot, buddy!

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OrionSR

We know a lot more now about the structure of the save file than when this tool was developed. Paul did a really good job with the information that was available at the time. 

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