Official PC Gamers Topic V3

[mkey82]

 

Because you're too lazy to get a job, work for your dough and actually buy games that are good instead of being a total ass...

Hold your horses, Gronf said he buys games, arguably those that are worth playing. If more publishers would release demos, piracy would go down significantly. Like with mafia 2 demo, the perfect example of how the game should be presented, from that 10 minute preview you can get an overview of the game mechanics, performance and see if you'd be interested in something like that. This can obviously have a negative effect as some people will be turned off by the demo, but when you think about it, what stuff do you actually buy without trying it first?

 

 

But that aside: didn't STEAM have 25 million REGISTERED users/accounts?

Yeah, registered and inactive.

 

BTW, what's the deal with Steam and these game packs which contain games you already purchased? I wanted to get the Stalker pack, but I already have the first one. Also, since I wanted to purchase Max Payne on steam but I'm not allowed to, it would be great if we could arrange some sort of gifting system.

Edited August 21, 2010 by mkey82

[FullMetal]

Well that's what you make from it, I know otherwise.

 

On top of that I have bought tons of games without trying them first. I have only regret of buying one game that I couldn't try beforehand. Only ONE.

 

But apart from that most games I own have/had demos and/or I had oppertunities to test them before... all totally legal.

[mkey82]

Well, since you KNOW GRONF LIKE HE WAS YOUR BROTHER I guess there is really no point in debating it anymore.

 

If you like all games you buy blindfolded, that speaks volumes about your standards. And I'd be very interested to see where you get your demos, like 75% of games I would like to buy don't have them, so do present us with your sources.

[Fnorg]

 

Because you're too lazy to get a job, work for your dough and actually buy games that are good instead of being a total ass...

Hold your horses, Gronf said he buys games, arguably those that are worth playing. If more publishers would release demos, piracy would go down significantly. Like with mafia 2 demo, the perfect example of how the game should be presented, from that 10 minute preview you can get an overview of the game mechanics, performance and see if you'd be interested in something like that. This can obviously have a negative effect as some people will be turned off by the demo, but when you think about it, what stuff do you actually buy without trying it first?

Yeah, that's pretty much spot on. If it weren't for piracy, I would probably have wasted money on Call of Duty and hated myself for it. If it weren't for piracy, I wouldn't have bought Mass Effect and its sequel or the Brothers in Arms series or Bad Company 2 and so on. I've also replaced my San Andreas disc which is scratched beyond repair.

 

However, I have pirated a few games and never paid for them later on, but I can't actually think of any other than the Sims 2 expansions right now (I'd like to say that they were for my sister but I sunk quite a few hours in those ) and GTA IV/EFLC. To be honest, I'm not losing sleep over any of them.

[FullMetal]

Yeah surely it speaks alot about my standards if I 'test' games at stores, over at friend's places and/or just the game demos/betas. Still there is no reason to download games, enjoy them and NOT buying them. Especially not if they're overall top quality games.

 

Don't get me wrong: I also torrented/downloaded games but for what I call legit reasons. Discs being scratched/FUBAR'd... losing discs and whatnot.

 

So before yeah let's talk about YOUR 'game' standards then eh?

[mkey82]

On top of that I have bought tons of games without trying them first. I have only regret of buying one game that I couldn't try beforehand. Only ONE.

Sorry, you have stopped making sense hence I deem this discussion closed.

[FullMetal]

How am I not making any sense? I have bought games without having played them before buying AND I also test games (like I said in my previous post). What doesn't make sense to you?

 

Ever heard of sequels? Ever heard of franchises? Ever heard of titles that friends recommend to you? Ever heard of packs that contain multiple games? Ever heard of games you have heard of/seen of, never bought/played because you just knew barely anything of... but said game(s) are on sale and you just buy them straight away out of curiosity?

 

 

 

 

[Fnorg]

Yeah surely it speaks alot about my standards if I 'test' games at stores, over at friend's places and/or just the game demos/betas. Still there is no reason to download games, enjoy them and NOT buying them. Especially not if they're overall top quality games.

Here's the kicker - I enjoyed GTA IV and EFLC. They were good games - fun mechanics, great writing and great acting. But in the end, both times I was handed a product that performed so poorly on hardware that's more than capable of handling it at the same setting as an Xbox I just didn't want to shell out any cash for either one. I can't see myself ever buying either game even once they're priced at €5-€10.

[Rockworm]

I don't mean to sound like a prude here but isn't admitting to pirating bannable on this site?

not that I really care I'm just curious.

[OverTheBelow]

I don't mean to sound like a prude here but isn't admitting to pirating bannable on this site?

not that I really care I'm just curious.

I should hope so. These people are ruining PC gaming.

[mkey82]

How am I not making any sense?

You said you buy many games without any info about them and you liked them all, apart one. From this I raised the question of your standards, as you obviously like every game that you bought. Apart one. To me this seems ridiculous.

 

In the following post you started referencing all the ways the game can be tested, even though I obviously commented your demo availability remark which was incorrect.

 

Also,

 

Ever heard of sequels? - Ever heard of bad sequels?

Ever heard of franchises? - Ever heard of ruined franchies?

Ever heard of titles that friends recommend to you? - Ever heard of tastes?

Ever heard of packs that contain multiple games? - I really don't see this point as you obviously pay for those games.

Ever heard of games you have heard of/seen of, never bought/played because you just knew barely anything of... but said game(s) are on sale and you just buy them straight away out of curiosity? - Again, buying the games blindfolded

 

Only a demo provides a proper way to test a game. Or actually playing it friends house, but this obviously goes on case by case basis. I for instance don't have any friends who I'd share opinions of games with. My friends either don't game or they just have crappy tastes. Like, they play anything they get their hands on.

 

Gronf, if you enjoyed EFLC and GTAIV you should buy them. If you managed to play them and enjoy, performance issues weren't that acute, were they? R* is a peace of crap company in my book and I don't see how can piracy do anything in this regard.

[Fnorg]

I don't mean to sound like a prude here but isn't admitting to pirating bannable on this site?

not that I really care I'm just curious.

Nah, linking to piracy that sort of thing is bannable. Discussing it isn't. Discussing things is why forums exist in the first place.

 

@mkey: The only reason I tolerated the poor performance was because I am a huge GTA fan. Been a fan since the second one. But the amount of pop-in, slowdowns and other terrible things shouldn't be tolerated. I'm speaking out with my wallet. And getting the game at the same time.

[mkey82]

Man, you can get that sh*t when it's on sale at steam for like 8€. There are no excuses. The whole "we delay PC versions because of piracy" bullsh*t is made only worse by such moves.

[FullMetal]

Did I say I liked all of the games I had bought? I only REGRET having bought one game (and not having played it beforehand). But since you don't really understand I'll elaborate.

 

I have bought alot of games... ALOT of them. I am open for new and 'unknown' games (especially when I was alot younger I had bought games I didn't knew anything of: because I was new to gaming).

 

For instance: Vietcong. Brilliant game that got blatantly ignored by many and recieved bad ratings by most reviews. Thing is: I bought the Vietcong double pack without having played the demo. I had seen a trailer on TV and I had read a review/seen a review on TV about the game. Music, atmosphere appealed to me and I went out to buy it. Never regretted it seeing as the game was f*cking brilliant and I was glad I just went for it straight away. You can miss yes, but you can also score big time.

 

Now, all the other games in between I have bought were either because I knew the game was good (tested/having played and/or friends who at the time had the exact same 'taste/preferrence' in games). I am NOT going to say ALL of these games (including the ones I didn't have any 'hands on experience from') are my favourites and I'll never call them perfect games. Because you know what? I play games for fun and I'm a gamer who likes to explore new games/try new things I haven't tried before or whatnot.

 

And here comes my point: there is a huge f*cking difference between having 'regret buying something' or 'something that dissappointed/was mediocre at best but enjoyable'. Now; Modern Warfare 2 is the only game I regret buying. Reasons? Singleplayer was utter trash, Co-Operative play is only really possible if you have a friend whom you know in person who owns the game and wants to join in (which wasn't the case) and the Multiplayer aspect is tailored for idiots who can't do anything but press the 'move forward button' and 'left mouse/fire weapon button'. IWNet is a total disaster and yade yade... most of you have heard the story/stories before.

 

Yes I actually regret wasting 50 Euros on that game. Why? Because that's the only game that wasn't even worth 10/5 euros on sale. I should've gotten it for free with a previous Call of Duty game.

 

Why don't I have any regret with other games eventhough they aren't my favourite games and probably aren't the 'best (quality) games out there'? The money I spent on these games was in my opinion worth the 'joy' and 'gametime' I got out of those games.

 

Another example: do you know the game Men of Valor? Yes? Because I was at the time a fanatic gamer and pretty much followed alot of the gaming news I had heard, read and seen alot about the game. Reviews were not really positive but me being a huge FPS fan and really into 'WW2/Vietnam war' (or in general: 'historical war' themed games) I was curious about said game. More than a year or two after the game had been released I had seen the game for a couple of euros. I thought I'd try it out because: I'd have to be one unlucky motherf*cker if this game wouldn't be worth/I couldn't get 'a couple of euro's worth of fun' out of the game.

 

As I said: bought it, installed it and played it. Nothing special and mediocre at best... but in the end I had some fun and I 'enjoyed' playing the game to a certain degree. Yes AI was bad, at the time Graphics were already outdated (but me not being THAT much of a graphics whore I didn't mind) and yes storyline was pretty cheap. In the end I got more gametime/'fun' out of it than I expected so in my opinion it was worth it.

 

In short: people play games to have fun, to try new things and NOT to constantly buy 'holy grails in gaming'. Atleast not all of them. And yes I also prefer to buy and play only 'top quality games'. But you see, I do realise certain games are 'mediocre/bland but enjoyable' and others are 'top noch quality'.

 

/useless rant

 

Also: Gronf's problem with the sh*tty preformance is the fact that he can't tolerate playing in lower settings than he wanted. Atleast he told me that. If you want to play the game in maximum possible resolution with maximum texture quality (and maybe other setting aswell) you HAVE to be prepared to live with the consequences. Yes, strange pop ups/pop ins did occur on lower setting aswell... but they weren't as much present as they do on 'maxed out settings' on the same computers.

 

I expected my PC to run IV maxed out but it didn't. After that I messed around with the settings and found the IN MY OPINION playable settings both visually and preformancewise. I end up being able to play the game in the resolution I desire with 'maximum texture quality'. Thing is though I have to tolerate 'low framerates' (25/30 frames per second).

 

One can't have all you know. And note I'm not saying this game was brilliantly programmed for the PC platform. Far from...

Edited August 21, 2010 by fullmetal

[chigi333]

EDIT: sorry wrong topic!

Edited August 21, 2010 by chigi333

[mkey82]

 

there is a huge f*cking difference between having 'regret buying something' or 'something that dissappointed/was mediocre at best but enjoyable'

We'll have a hard time agreeing on this point. As it makes no sense to me.

 

If I don't find a game to be entertaining (not mildly, but proper) I'm not going to play it. If I don't play it, I'll regret buying it as I wasted money.

Edited August 21, 2010 by mkey82

[Zook]

Good news guys, I was listening to the pc gamer podcast and they were talking about deus ex. Basically they said that they have played deus ex 3 (with a controller) and they said it's as enjoyable as the first. So yes it's great news.

[Rockworm]

I don't mean to sound like a prude here but isn't admitting to pirating bannable on this site?

not that I really care I'm just curious.

I should hope so. These people are ruining PC gaming.

I don't think its as simple as that but I digress.

[Sunrise Driver]

 

Here's the kicker - I enjoyed GTA IV and EFLC. They were good games - fun mechanics, great writing and great acting. But in the end, both times I was handed a product that performed so poorly on hardware that's more than capable of handling it at the same setting as an Xbox I just didn't want to shell out any cash for either one. I can't see myself ever buying either game even once they're priced at €5-€10.

You enjoy it - you buy it. In the last 9 months IV was on sale twice at $7.5 price.

 

GTA IV is a great game and there's no exuse for piracy.

[Fnorg]

Here's the kicker - I enjoyed GTA IV and EFLC. They were good games - fun mechanics, great writing and great acting. But in the end, both times I was handed a product that performed so poorly on hardware that's more than capable of handling it at the same setting as an Xbox I just didn't want to shell out any cash for either one. I can't see myself ever buying either game even once they're priced at €5-€10.

You enjoy it - you buy it. In the last 9 months IV was on sale twice at $7.5 price.

 

GTA IV is a great game and there's no exuse for piracy.

I loved the story, there's no doubting that. Every bit of it. Even the parts with the horrible Serbian. However, driving around and each time I made a stop was a painful experience as the buildings' textures would begin to load up and the pop-in was super noticeable. And don't get me started on hitting concrete walls that weren't even there. To make a long story short, I have a computer that should be more than capable of handling a game like GTA on settings at least slightly better than the consoles. But no, I had all sliders set below the middle, just about everything else set to middle with a few lows and the only the thing that I had better than consoles was the resolution. I think I got around 30 FPS on average, much higher indoors and one or two giant drops during some of the more explosions oriented missions.

 

All in all, while I did enjoy the game, I just don't feel like it's a product worth paying for. Dicking me around is one thing, but expecting money for it is asking for a bit too much.

[Sunrise Driver]

Quoting CC from Mafia II topic.

 

 

Actually I would say steam drm is working very well considering the concerted effort people are putting in to TRYING to crack the game.  I haven't followed it all that closely but I believe they are now on their FOURTH version of the crack and it still doesn't work correctly for a lot of people.  Then there are the 200 steps you have to go through to get it working, not to mention the fact that you have to make a fake steam account (hope people doing this have a dynamic IP).

1. There's only 1 step.

2. You don't have to make any Steam accounts.

3. Crack is working perfectly. Fact.

 

 

I can't believe any one that has any interest in PC gaming would actually be cheering these crackers on here it is truly unbelievable the attitude of some people.

I and many many other people are cheering because crackers help LEGIT users to avoid DRM (all types). Thanks to crackers I'll buy Mafia II because I know that in case of troubles with Steam I can continue playing.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Street Mix

[baptiste]

Tbh, my father works in the video game industry and it pains me when I see people talking about downloading games.

 

My main complain isnt about people not paying for them, my main complain is the company not getting any revenue from it. By not buying them your denying the companies their revenues to make more good games.

 

Moreover, there have been multiple times when my father has talked to me about measures to stop hackers put into place and usually ruining an area of the gameplay. This is terrible, and he agrees, but thats the way it is.

 

That's the main reason I buy all my video games at full price. Always.

[QwertyAAA]

 

Tbh, my father works in the video game industry and it pains me when I see people talking about downloading games.

 

My main complain isnt about people not paying for them, my main complain is the company not getting any revenue from it. By not buying them your denying the companies their revenues to make more good games.

 

Moreover, there have been multiple times when my father has talked to me about measures to stop hackers put into place and usually ruining an area of the gameplay. This is terrible, and he agrees, but thats the way it is.

 

That's the main reason I buy all my video games at full price. Always.

All right, how about this: I have a PS3 version of GTAIV. It was paid for, full price, 60$; the price of eight digital purchases of the same game on Steam (Or three, whatever.) Furthermore, I just do not have a good enough computer to run IV on optimal settings - in fact, I do not even have one good enough to run it without any lag or graphical glitches on any settings; thus, I never actually download it to play it, only to use it as a benchmarking tool. So why the hell should I buy it if I:

1. have already done so;

2. can't run it;

3. don't play it;

and 4. never keep it installed on my computer for more than a month or so?

Edited August 24, 2010 by QwertyAAA

[CharmingCharlie]

 

1. There's only 1 step.

I would detail the entire procedure to get the pirated version of Mafia 2 running but I don't agree with that kind of thing. It is far from a "copy crack" thing and contains at least 11 steps.

 

 

2. You don't have to make any Steam accounts.

According to the guide on how to install the crack you do.

 

 

3. Crack is working perfectly. Fact.

No it isn't a lot of people are reporting the crack crashes during Chapter 7, 8 and 10 and the game is inherently unstable at the best of times. I believe the "crackers" for want of a better term have used the demo.exe as a base for their crack (and we wonder why developers don't release demos on the PC anymore).

 

 

I and many many other people are cheering because crackers help LEGIT users to avoid DRM (all types). Thanks to crackers I'll buy Mafia II because I know that in case of troubles with Steam I can continue playing.

Yeah right "legit", Street Mix you clearly haven't got a clue about DRM, you seem quite happy to accept the DRM in GFWL but seem a bit but hurt by the DRM in steam. If you have a problem with DRM being used in games then do the intelligent, sensible, mature thing ie VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET. If a game uses DRM and you don't like it then do not buy the game, do not pirate the game and do not crack the game.

 

 

So why the hell should I buy it if I:

1. have already done so;

2. can't run it;

3. don't play it;

and 4. never keep it installed on my computer for more than a month or so?

I missed the bit where you explained why you had an automatic right to other people's work without paying for it ? Just because you bought the PS3 version does not give you an automatic right to the PC version. Now far enough you can't run GTA 4 acceptably on your machine so you do the sensible mature thing and do not buy and do not not steal it.

[stinomontana]

 

I missed the bit where you explained why you had an automatic right to other people's work without paying for it ?  Just because you bought the PS3 version does not give you an automatic right to the PC version.  Now far enough you can't run GTA 4 acceptably on your machine so you do the sensible mature thing and do not buy and do not not steal it.

i bought gta sa 4 times (3times on ps2) and 1 on the pc)

my first ps2 disk got scratched, my 2 other disk's got ripped apart by my dog

so i bought it for pc, and now theirs a little scratch on the disk,(you can barely see it) wich gives an error everytime i try to install

 

would it be really that bad to just download the data illegal and still play the game with the original disk?

[OverTheBelow]

I missed the bit where you explained why you had an automatic right to other people's work without paying for it ?  Just because you bought the PS3 version does not give you an automatic right to the PC version.  Now far enough you can't run GTA 4 acceptably on your machine so you do the sensible mature thing and do not buy and do not not steal it.

i bought gta sa 4 times (3times on ps2) and 1 on the pc)

my first ps2 disk got scratched, my 2 other disk's got ripped apart by my dog

so i bought it for pc, and now theirs a little scratch on the disk,(you can barely see it) wich gives an error everytime i try to install

 

would it be really that bad to just download the data illegal and still play the game with the original disk?

If you bought the game and it doesn't work, it's legal to download the game files.

[Abel.]

I missed the bit where you explained why you had an automatic right to other people's work without paying for it ?  Just because you bought the PS3 version does not give you an automatic right to the PC version.  Now far enough you can't run GTA 4 acceptably on your machine so you do the sensible mature thing and do not buy and do not not steal it.

i bought gta sa 4 times (3times on ps2) and 1 on the pc)

my first ps2 disk got scratched, my 2 other disk's got ripped apart by my dog

so i bought it for pc, and now theirs a little scratch on the disk,(you can barely see it) wich gives an error everytime i try to install

 

would it be really that bad to just download the data illegal and still play the game with the original disk?

If it's clear that the scratch is the source of the issue, why not simply try the "toothpaste trick". After installation you could simply burn a new, personal copy of the disk and dispose of the original.

[mkey82]

 

and we wonder why developers don't release demos on the PC anymore

I don't think that's the reason, in many cases Steam exes are used for bypassing CD checks, so how come people still publish games on Steam? Or D2D?

 

When you buy a game, you get a license and maybe some piece of nicely wrapped plastic - the way you obtain data files shouldn't (at least morally) be a problem.

 

As to what QwertyAAA said, I fail to see the point of using a broken console port benchmark as a relevant hardware testing tool in periods that last as long as 30 days.

[Sunrise Driver]

 

Yeah right "legit", Street Mix you clearly haven't got a clue about DRM, you seem quite happy to accept the DRM in GFWL but seem a bit but hurt by the DRM in steam.

The only reason I still use GfWLive is GTA IV/EFLC multiplayer. I would use XLiveLess otherwise.

 

P.S. About the crack - it's 24th now, not 21th. You have very old resources. You can still believe in you "bulletproof" Steam DRM but the reality is the Steam is actually crackable and Mafia II is fully cracked (like other 99% of games). I know that you don't want to accept the truth but...deal with it.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Street Mix

[CharmingCharlie]

You know what Street Mix I just cannot be arsed to argue with you any more, it is a complete and utter waste of my time to try and talk some sense into someone as clearly deluded as you. There is not a fully working crack for Mafia 2 yet, there is an "indie" crack that "sorta" works but it comes with major problems and makes the game unstable. Now if you class that as "cracked" then it is pointless to debate such a retarded point of view.

 

Now if you are serious about your attitude to DRM and how it is a gross violation of your "rights" then do what I suggested, don't buy the game, don't pirate the game and don't crack the game. If you want people to respect your "rights" then you should respect other people's rights too and that includes not using cracks. Why am I bothering ? It will be in one ear and out the other