Official PC Gamers Topic V3

[Creed Bratton]

It seems that PC hardware and software developers are sick and tired of Microsoft. SteamOS + AMD's Mantle API could replace Windows and DirectX. And I want them to. If Microsoft wants to be stupid enough to neglect PC gaming, they deserve to have that particular aspect of their business taken away from them. I can't wait to hear more about AMD's new API. AMD had said that it will be fully supported in Battlefield 4, replacing DirectX 11 and having better performance. Sounds awesome. I might buy Battlefield 4 just to see how that works. And since that's probably the same API that the PS4 will be using, porting from PS4 to PC and vice versa will hopefully be a lot easier. Damn, it's good to be a PC gamer these days.

 

EDIT: Ken Levine seems to like the idea of SteamOS

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/09/25/ken-levine-steamos-is-a-brave-and-powerful-idea/

 

What people seem to be forgetting about open source operating systems is that if the OS is good enough, and if you have a large enough user base, someone will find a way to make everything you need compatible on that OS. If not the developers of the software you need, then users themselves. It will take some time, but this thing could actually have a negative impact on Microsoft's OS business. The only thing that Windows has over Linux is video game compatibility. And they even have a solution for that with local streaming. SteamOS might not replace your current version of Windows, but it can make future Windows OS redundant. And that's enough for me.

Edited September 26, 2013 by GTAvanja

[AllenKS]

It seems that PC hardware and software developers are sick and tired of Microsoft. SteamOS + AMD's Mantle API could replace Windows and DirectX. And I want them to. If Microsoft wants to be stupid enough to neglect PC gaming, they deserve to have that particular aspect of their business taken away from them. I can't wait to hear more about AMD's new API. AMD had said that it will be fully supported in Battlefield 4, replacing DirectX 11 and having better performance. Sounds awesome. I might buy Battlefield 4 just to see how that works. And since that's probably the same API that the PS4 will be using, porting from PS4 to PC and vice versa will hopefully be a lot easier. Damn, it's good to be a PC gamer these days.

 

EDIT: Ken Levine seems to like the idea of SteamOS

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/09/25/ken-levine-steamos-is-a-brave-and-powerful-idea/

 

What people seem to be forgetting about open source operating systems is that if the OS is good enough, and if you have a large enough user base, someone will find a way to make everything you need compatible on that OS. If not the developers of the software you need, then users themselves. It will take some time, but this thing could actually have a negative impact on Microsoft's OS business. The only thing that Windows has over Linux is video game compatibility. And they even have a solution for that with local streaming. SteamOS might not replace your current version of Windows, but it can make future Windows OS redundant. And that's enough for me.

 

No I totally get it, I even said that we'd start seeing the effects of it 5+ years from now, and that what it will do is revitalize Linux and OpenGL, force Microsoft into competition where Microsoft can no longer lock whole versions of DirectX behind paywalls and such, as well as increasing the general number of console ports because OpenGL is compatible with everything.

 

It's all there in my very long, almost ranting, posts above.

 

It is a good thing for PC gamers, but in a roundabout "stopping Microsoft from being a dick" way, and not a "this is the revolution, pick up your weapons!" kind of way. Through it all I'll probably still stick to Windows since I'm already used to all the navigation menus, macros, programs, settings, and folder locations and what not, so again this doesn't mean much at all to me except that Windows 9 or 10 won't force me to upgrade to utilize new versions of Direct X and such.

 

Again, I'm probably the only person left who's quite content with what Windows offers, and isn't waiting to jump ship as soon as the opportunity arises. Especially since if Steam OS is a success it pretty much guarantees that Windows won't get -worse-, as well as all of that stuff being open source pretty much means that if it does get really really good Microsoft can cannibalize any of it directly into Windows, so I'll never have to leave home to get the latest and greatest.

[Pooka Mustard]

Guys, stop hyping on SteamOS (and Big Picture). Its just another Linux distro.

http://kingbowserpooka.deviantart.com/journal/SteamOS-hype-opinion-403268190

^My opinion of it.

[AllenKS]

Guys, stop hyping on SteamOS (and Big Picture). Its just another Linux distro.

http://kingbowserpooka.deviantart.com/journal/SteamOS-hype-opinion-403268190

^My opinion of it.

 

Err, although I can see where you're coming from on certain issues, I think you have the wrong idea about who the market for this is, other than those people who draw Gabe Newell as Jesus/God and would buy anything he makes ever.

 

The SteamOS is pretty much useless, and will be for a long time to any dedicated PC gamer. On that I agree, as you can see from my comments above. The thing is that if the Steam Machines project works (which again, I highly doubt) and can get a giant console-sized install base behind it, THEN developers will start making more Linux games, OpenGL might lead the market as a build API, which means more multiplatform games (including Windows PC) in general, competition for future Windows OS and all of that other good stuff.

 

IF it works. I'm still extremely skeptical on just how many console users will want to bother with a pre-built PC, and really the only way I see them buying, is if they're tricked into thinking it's NOT a PC. If console users wanted a gaming PC, they would buy one. If PC gamers wanted a console, we'd buy one, and probably already have them.

 

If the Steam Machines work, it'll take ~5 years for the positive effects to start kicking it. Steam OS itself won't be useful until even longer than that, maybe 10+ years. A decade from now Windows Next vs. SteamOS might be a tough choice, but as of right now, I'm not giving up my game library or top notch driver support on Gabe's say so.

 

That being said, if it can work you're right, it won't revolutionize a damn thing and people need to calm down, but you're wrong if you don't think it would at least shake things up.

[Sunrise Driver]

This new Steam controller looks a bit revolutionary. I wanna pick it up for Windows PC (and possibly PS3). I wonder if it works outside Steam.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Street Mix

[sivispacem]

Guys, stop hyping on SteamOS (and Big Picture). Its just another Linux distro.

http://kingbowserpooka.deviantart.com/journal/SteamOS-hype-opinion-403268190

^My opinion of it.

I don't mean to be a dick, but pretty much every new operating system is "just another Linux distro". That doesn't mean that Android hasn't taken over the world. AllenKS is completely correct in his analysis- that this isn't a tool for devs as you seem to be implying but a hybrid console-PC operating system that's designed for basic usability and therefore forgoes many of the traditional attributes of a Linux-based OS. It's Linux in framework only.

[AllenKS]

 

Guys, stop hyping on SteamOS (and Big Picture). Its just another Linux distro.

http://kingbowserpooka.deviantart.com/journal/SteamOS-hype-opinion-403268190

^My opinion of it.

I don't mean to be a dick, but pretty much every new operating system is "just another Linux distro". That doesn't mean that Android hasn't taken over the world. AllenKS is completely correct in his analysis- that this isn't a tool for devs as you seem to be implying but a hybrid console-PC operating system that's designed for basic usability and therefore forgoes many of the traditional attributes of a Linux-based OS. It's Linux in framework only.

 

 

Exactly, Valve doesn't want to turn your PC into a console, it wants to turn console gamer's consoles into PCs.

 

If it succeeds, then PC gamers will always be the first in mind for every single project, or at least not an afterthought. 10 years from now, in the sunniest possible future as a result of the Steam OS/Steam Machines, the only difference between a "PC" and a "console" will be what room it's located in. (Obligatory "IF it works.")

 

The Steam OS/Linux isn't the star of this show, the Steam Machines are. They just needed an open source OS to stick in the box, and using Linux is pretty much the best choice. In fact, I'd bet my asshole on Steam OS being, more specifically, Unbuntu-based.

 

 

This new Steam controller looks a bit revolutionary. I wanna pick it up for Windows PC (and possibly PS3). I wonder if it works outside Steam.

 

Yeah it looks pretty good. Also looks super f*cking expensive as well.. A high resolution screen in the middle of it? Rumble whats-its that can function as speakers? Super accurate secret touchpad technology?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this thing retailed for $100+, which makes me scared of the price of the systems if they're gonna come packaged with it.. The more I hear about these things, the less faith I have in this plan of theirs actually succeeding. You're not going to sell a ~$700 anything to console gamers, especially not when the next-gen systems are right around the corner. In fact, this is slated to come out way AFTER the next-gen systems already hit the market. I think Valve are either really overconfident on what their name means to the average buyer, or are not telling us something really important in this plan of theirs.

 

Namely, how much does this future cost?

Edited September 28, 2013 by AllenKS

[Pooka Mustard]

Well, at least Android is a special Linux distro; its made primarily for smartphones and tablets, made for freedom that iOS wouldn't give anyways. Maybe iOS is also another Linux distro here?

 

Plus, I didn't see much hype over a Linux distro made for a purpose that'll fail; if I wanted coach gaming, I can get a PS or XBox and play on my coach with native controller settings, etc. I did not go to my PC, and sitting on the desk and chair, so Valve could make this living room gimmick. Gabe is not changing PC gaming nor revolutionizing it. He's making a gimmick that'll hopefully cost them more than earn them. If he made a freaking Steam app for PS3 and X360 to stream games, or made the Steam Box come with Windows 8 regardless of how closed MS wants it to be, that would be better. They're only putting themselves face to face with MS and Sony. Why do I ever need to give up my keyboard, mouse, 2 feet monitor desk and chair, for the controller and the coach and a 10 feet monitor?

 

Stop being silly, Valve, fix your damn client then do the "not-aimed at PC gamers" gimmicks you want to do.

[AllenKS]

Well, at least Android is a special Linux distro; its made primarily for smartphones and tablets, made for freedom that iOS wouldn't give anyways. Maybe iOS is also another Linux distro here?

 

Plus, I didn't see much hype over a Linux distro made for a purpose that'll fail; if I wanted coach gaming, I can get a PS or XBox and play on my coach with native controller settings, etc. I did not go to my PC, and sitting on the desk and chair, so Valve could make this living room gimmick. Gabe is not changing PC gaming nor revolutionizing it. He's making a gimmick that'll hopefully cost them more than earn them. If he made a freaking Steam app for PS3 and X360 to stream games, or made the Steam Box come with Windows 8 regardless of how closed MS wants it to be, that would be better. They're only putting themselves face to face with MS and Sony. Why do I ever need to give up my keyboard, mouse, 2 feet monitor desk and chair, for the controller and the coach and a 10 feet monitor?

 

Stop being silly, Valve, fix your damn client then do the "not-aimed at PC gamers" gimmicks you want to do.

 

That's where I (kinda) agree with you. It's hard to see console gamers jumping ship to a PC, or dedicated PC gamers picking up an extra PC they could have built themselves.. The only market I can see is the guy who just built a PC and doesn't have money for Windows so he installs the Steam OS, or the guy who always wanted a PC but found the process of finding your own parts and installing all of your drivers and stuff too scary so he buys a Steam Machine.

 

That doesn't sound like a huge market at all, and it's certainly not the one they need for their plan to be a success. For them to succeed they pretty much have to bamboozle console gamers into buying it, and once there, pray to god that they don't find the ingame settings and turn AA, Shadows, and SSAO to [Extreme]/[Very High] for every game and sell the thing back for "not being as good as a PS4/Xbone".

 

Though, once again, even if this "fails" they'll still achieve one thing, and that is bringing more games to Linux users.

Edited September 28, 2013 by AllenKS

[Pooka Mustard]

Though, once again, even if this "fails" they'll still achieve one thing, and that is bringing more games to Linux users.

 

I don't see the SteamOS achieving anything. They already achieved bringing more games to Linux, that's called Steam for Linux. They should encourage developers to making Mac/Linux ports and give them the tools for so, rather than make a Linux distro made for the living room.

[AllenKS]

They should encourage developers to making Mac/Linux ports and give them the tools for so, rather than make a Linux distro made for the living room.

 

 

But.. That's exactly what they're doing?.. The developers already have the tools, the encouragement comes in increasing the install base for Linux, and stripping away the importance of Windows. Which is what the SteamOS is trying to do.

 

Yeah it may just be Unbuntu with Steam pre-loaded to it, or however they decide to handle it, but with a (relatively) big name like "Valve" behind it, they may get some people to pick it up for that reason alone who would've never got Linux otherwise. (See: all the massive fan hype across the net.)

 

People are suckers for name brands.

Edited September 28, 2013 by AllenKS

[Pooka Mustard]

I don't think you can strip Windows' importance either... first, its the most used computer OS on the planet, no matter what Windows OS it is. Secondly, a big part of people are too used to it that they won't travel to Linux or Mac, and of course, speak about it having the biggest program base out of the three main OSes. Thirdly, people who will jump from Windows to any Linux distro be it SteamOS itself will find a learning curve, this learning curve is what makes Windows 8 bad. And finally, I don't think MS wanted to restrict program making, otherwise the traditional desktop would've not been there with usual .exe installing, right? If they wanted to do that, they have to make it exactly like Apple's iOS; apps from outside the appstore are thrown out of the window till you jailbreak. No, you get the desktop and can also install programs, so the developer fuss against Windows 8 being more closed is... I don't really understand it. (Unless its of course, the Windows 8 exclusive games and apps)

 

Those who will get SteamOS because its made by "Valve" might find themselves getting back very soon to Windows because of the learning curve, I hope they do so because Valve's efforts are directed to the wrong way, and so, these efforts must die miserably to serve a lesson for listening to the entire base rather than a part of it. Because a minority only seems to be interested in Big Picture.

 

And even if they do Half-Life 3 as an exclusive on it, it will be developed in Linux, so basically any Linux distro would run it. It will serve nothing.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Diego Mustard

[Voodoo]

Let's use this topic to discuss hardware and specs for upcoming PC releases and keep it out of the multi-platform topics. Anything PC gaming goes here.

[Osho]

Voo hoo !!! .. finally a place to DISCUSS.

 

Nice, so what should we talk now?

[sivispacem]

Ran a couple of benchmarks for the imminent release of W_D.

 

Yeah, I don't come out brilliantly there:

 

 

GPU somewhat better:

 

 

Looks like I might be in the market for some cheapish upgrades in the very near future. What does an FX-8320 and decent AM3+ motherboard go for these days?

[RyanBurnsRed]

You can get both for just under $300 on Newegg.

Also I'm surprised you paired a 680 with that CPU. A bit of a bottleneck there isn't it?

Edited May 20, 2014 by RyanBurnsRed

[Mista J]

So ultra on Watch Dogs will be CPU heavy.

 

Morin also claimed that a GTX670 will be able to run the game at Ultra settings, provided the CPU does not bottleneck the GPU. But what CPU is ideal for Ultra settings? Morin stated that every CPU that scores above 9000 points at Intel’s PassMark will be able to run the game at max settings.

 

“As a ref: cpu above 9 000 -10 000 should run decently in Ultra with a 670 GPU“

 

Morin has also stated that users with CPUs similar to Intel i5-3470 will be able to run the game at medium or high settings, as that CPU will bottleneck the game.

[sivispacem]

You can get both for just under $300 on Newegg.

Also I'm surprised you paired a 680 with that CPU. A bit of a bottleneck there isn't it?

You'd think so, but I've never once experienced any bottlenecking. I've yet to play anything I can't run at a steady 50+FPS with every graphical setting turned to the absolute maximum.

[Fireman]

 

You can get both for just under $300 on Newegg.

Also I'm surprised you paired a 680 with that CPU. A bit of a bottleneck there isn't it?

You'd think so, but I've never once experienced any bottlenecking. I've yet to play anything I can't run at a steady 50+FPS with every graphical setting turned to the absolute maximum.

 

 

I have the perfect challenge for you! Carmageddon: Reincarnation!

 

I build a brand new PC 2 months ago with great specs and I still can't get my FPS above 4 with everything activated. Aah.. early access games.

[sivispacem]

A frame rate of 4FPS doesn't really count as "playing" IMO.

[El Dildo]

since we're already discussing it, I cannot wait for Watch Dogs.

it's gonna' be the first in [what should hopefully be] a line of great PC games finally coming down the tube this Summer. there hasn't been anything good to play since Dark Souls II came out. W_D looks like it's going to be pretty epic and I love Chicago; lots of friends/family there. it'll be cool to get a fresh game in that setting since 99% of games like this take place in New York or LA.

 

my machine should be more than capable of handling W_D at maximum settings or close to.

I only recently upgraded my RAM and mobo again.

[Mista J]

@Fireman

Is that the new Crysisesque benchmark?? Your rig is only awesome if you can break 30 frames?

Edited May 20, 2014 by DarthShinobi

[gtamann123]

I think I'm going to grab an i7 in a few months. My current i3 was okay when I was building the PC on a budget but I feel I need an upgrade. My GPU kind of out does my CPU so I want to get something that will allow the best possible usage of the GPU.

[Pat]

Unless you're interested in hyperthreading, just get an i5. An i7 isn't worth it for gaming alone.

[RyanBurnsRed]

What Pat said. An i5 is an i7 without hyperthreading. Unless you're going to be doing some video rendering, animation, or recording, then save $100 and go with the i5.

I also need an upgrade. I'm hoping to get one by the end of the year

[sivispacem]

Currently seeing if I can pick up a hot 990FX and FX8320 for under £100 via eBay. Been a very long time since I bought second-hand PC parts but given I might be doing a rebuild in the next 18 months anyway the cheaper the better.

[Fireman]

A frame rate of 4FPS doesn't really count as "playing" IMO.

 

No it's more like watching a slideshow in it's current state.

 

@Fireman

Is that the new Crysisesque benchmark?? Your rig is only awesome if you can break 30 frames?

 

I don't know, it's just very unstable. I had it up and running at 30+ FPS on high settings every 1/50 times I start the game, the other 49 times it's between 0-5 FPS.

 

But here's my specs, maybe my CPU should be better. I got an i5 currently.

 

 

 

Processor: Intel Core i5 4670

Cooling: Scythe Mugen 4 PCGH Edition,

Motherboard: Asus Z87-A

RAM: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 2x 4GB

GFX Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 4GB Gigabyte,

SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB,

HD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 ST2000DM001, 2TB,

Case: Aerocool Vs-3 Advance.

Power supply: Seasonic M12II 520W

 

 

I mean, that should handle Watch Dogs just fine shouldn't it?

Edited May 21, 2014 by Fireman

[Vercetti42]

I have no interest for Watch Dogs. Not one bit. I have no idea why so many people are excited for this game. The only reason I want to play it is because it is Open-World. I won't pick it up on release day and I doubt I'll pick it up at all plus I'm having serious doubts about how it would be optimized for PC.

 

I guess that's kind of a good thing though. I don't know much about the game so I'm not hyping myself up like the others so there is a chance it could surprise me but meh.

 

Anywho after countless attempts of re-installing I finally got IV to work on PC. It runs well but what bugs me is the shadows. It just looks so fuzzy. i hope V is better optimized for PC.

 

Max Payne 3 on the other hand is fantastic. High settings and no problems at all!

[sivispacem]

I don't understand what isn't appealing about W_D. It's not as if proper open-world games are ten-a-penny; the graphics look pretty awesome, the underlying concept us actually quite well thought out and some of the game mechanics look excellent. I know it's largely a personal thing but I'd be keen to find out why you feel that way.

 

Ubisoft have consistently said that PC is the primary platform and from the info so far optimisation seems fairly good, if a little CPU intensive. It's not as if they haven't got experience bringing an open-world environment vastly superior on PC to console; just look at FC3 to see what can be done when they really do treat PC as a primary launch platform.

[RyanBurnsRed]

Currently seeing if I can pick up a hot 990FX and FX8320 for under £100 via eBay. Been a very long time since I bought second-hand PC parts but given I might be doing a rebuild in the next 18 months anyway the cheaper the better.

 

I also want to do an upgrade, but I'm going the way of Intel and I'm looking at $400

Might be able to reduce that a bit though by getting a 2500K and a compatible motherboard on ebay.

 

Although it'd be a huge upgrade from what I'm running now, I'm still on the fence if I should go with Ivy/Haswell ($230-240) or go with Sandy Bridge.

Choices man...tough choices...

 

I don't care what anyone says, the struggle is real.