Official PC Gamers Topic V3

[Abel.]

Anyone hearing about those Radeon HD4870x2s? I might pick one up, along with a Silverstone PSU and that MicroATX DFI Crossfire motherboard to make a killer rig, see if I can get it to max Crysis.

Oh hell yeah mate, I'm looking into getting a new NVIDIA card; the guy in the shop kept on singing

the HD4870's praises, it's a very nice card.

[kingvercetti]

I've been thinking of getting a 4870 or equivalent at the end of the year, but first I need a new case and mobo so I can move everything out of this Dell and into something more practical for upgrading.

I'm in need of a pretty intensive overhaul for my system too. Mine is pretty lacking in most areas, but I somehow was able to run Crysis on medium at 1280x1024 with a decent framerate, yet running the equivalent settings on Far Cry it seems my PC starts to struggle with keeping a consistent framerate. How odd.

Yeah I can run it on high @ 1440x900 and maintain 20-30 fps (surprisingly smooth believe it or not) on my 8800GT, I just wanna make my system future proof.

 

Something I've always wondered about, is it true that SLI and Crossfire don't support dual monitors? If so, why not?

[jelly]

Crossfire supports several monitors, at least in its current incarnation. SLI does not, you'd have to ask Nvidia why.. There are some workarounds, but to be honest I'd rather just stick to one card and tell them to take their SLI and stuff it somewhere the sun doesn't shine.

[jedimario]

in truth it is really the consoles that are on life support.

Uh, ever heard of the Wii?

[jelly]

in truth it is really the consoles that are on life support.

Uh, ever heard of the Wii?

If you're not here to discuss PC gaming but rather pick fights I suggest you find the door. We had enough of this petty fighting in the IV PC thread which is why the topic creator went ahead with this one.

 

In any case, yeah we've all heard of the Wii, and unlike the so-called 'next gen' consoles it has found a niche and doesn't try to compete with the PC as a platform. It does something entirely different, it's like a blend of a home arcade and a karaoke machine.

[Otter]

Consoles aren't really going anywhere. No one's mom is going to buy them a $1000 PC for christmas. It always seems like this; there's the initial bubble when a new console comes out; the hype and excitement, and then the PC surpasses it in every regard. The only difference is that this time, the consoles were having their asses kicked right out the starting gate.

 

The reason the Wii is so successful is because it represents a fundamental step forward. I think that's the future of console gaming, not just a graphics update.

 

PCs will always be around to pick up the slack left over.

[kingvercetti]

 

Crossfire supports several monitors, at least in its current incarnation. SLI does not, you'd have to ask Nvidia why.. There are some workarounds, but to be honest I'd rather just stick to one card and tell them to take their SLI and stuff it somewhere the sun doesn't shine.

Ah, that's fine then, I was planning to switch to ATi anyway, I prefer the pay much less for only a little less performance. Thanks.

 

To elaborate on the Wii's success, it's also because many thousands if not millions of people who have felt alienated from "normal" gaming now feel like they can join in too. But I agree on the point that this generations consoles were inferior upon release, not to pick on any particular console but I know that in some parts of the single player mode Gears suffered from iffy framerates and in the demo at E3 Gears 2 did stutter a little bit. That's not say that consoles are bad, but none of them seem to be a comfortable for developers, they say the PS3 is difficult to program for, the Wii is underpowered and the 360 doesn't have enough storage in it's media. Yet still they make many crappy ports for PC. Makes no sense, much like this post actually, I seem to have just gone off into a little rant. Sorry 'bout that.

[Otter]

"Underpowered," I suppose, is the real bone of contention. The power of the system should not dictate it's success, rather the versatility and possibilities for innovation. This is why PC will always have a dedicated fanbase - even if you're playing with an outdated system, you can still f*ck around with all sorts of mods, level editors, even teledildonics.

[Mike Tequeli]

"Underpowered," I suppose, is the real bone of contention. The power of the system should not dictate it's success, rather the versatility and possibilities for innovation. This is why PC will always have a dedicated fanbase - even if you're playing with an outdated system, you can still f*ck around with all sorts of mods, level editors, even teledildonics.

Problem is anybody intending to make a profit these days needs to release games to the consoles as well as to the PC. Games cost tens of millions to make now and it isn't entirely sustainable on one sliding market.

 

I prefer PCs though, for the versatility that consoles likely never will have.

[Abel.]

 

I've been thinking of getting a 4870 or equivalent at the end of the year, but first I need a new case and mobo so I can move everything out of this Dell and into something more practical for upgrading.

I'm in need of a pretty intensive overhaul for my system too. Mine is pretty lacking in most areas, but I somehow was able to run Crysis on medium at 1280x1024 with a decent framerate, yet running the equivalent settings on Far Cry it seems my PC starts to struggle with keeping a consistent framerate. How odd.

Yeah I can run it on high @ 1440x900 and maintain 20-30 fps (surprisingly smooth believe it or not) on my 8800GT, I just wanna make my system future proof.

 

 

Me too, I think I might invest in the Geforce 9800GX2, I've read some positive reviews on that GPU.

 

Edited July 19, 2008 by elanman

[kingvercetti]

 

Me too, I think I might invest in the Geforce 9800GX2, I've read some positive reviews on that GPU.

Yeah but the thing is huge, so just make sure you have the case and PSU to back it up.

 

 

"Underpowered," I suppose, is the real bone of contention. The power of the system should not dictate it's success, rather the versatility and possibilities for innovation.

 

That may be true, but the thing is however that, while power is not needed for innovation, it does greatly help developers to push the envelope, and is a large contributing factor in the overall experience. For example, a game with unsurpassable levels of immersion, something that great fun to play and keeps up the total suspension of disbelief would be much easier to pull off on a system with some hardware to back it up than on a limited one. That's just my two cents of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

Anyway, Mirror's Edge, looks like an amazing game from what I've seen of it, I'm probably more excited about it than any other game this year, and will be getting it release day on PC. What's other peoples opinions on it?

[jelly]

Mirror's Edge looks like it'll be one of the best games this year, along with Far Cry 2 and Red Alert 3.

[Jackmackg]

does any one know the best place to buy a pc game? online, brick and mortar?

[CharmingCharlie]

 

does any one know the best place to buy a pc game? online, brick and mortar?

You should really consider giving STEAM a go, I have tried it and found it fantastic. I am hoping that GTA 4 will be released on the Steam network along with a retail version as well.

 

http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php

[kingvercetti]

I second that, Steam is amazing, almost everything is cheaper than retail and everything (chat, profiles etc) is integrated on the network. There's a great selection of games too, when I go to buy something I usually end up buying two or three games due to all the bundles they have.

[dvs_angel]

I am hoping that GTA 4 will be released on the Steam network along with a retail version as well.

Same here. Except R* have yet to release any of their backlog of games for Australian Steam users!

[Jackmackg]

does any one know the best place to buy a pc game? online, brick and mortar?

You should really consider giving STEAM a go, I have tried it and found it fantastic. I am hoping that GTA 4 will be released on the Steam network along with a retail version as well.

 

http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php

thank you, but how much freedom does steam give you when it comes to mods for a game?

[jelly]

does any one know the best place to buy a pc game? online, brick and mortar?

You should really consider giving STEAM a go, I have tried it and found it fantastic. I am hoping that GTA 4 will be released on the Steam network along with a retail version as well.

 

http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php

thank you, but how much freedom does steam give you when it comes to mods for a game?

That depends on the developer. Steam can allow developers to lock down their games fully, or complete modding freedom (like Valve's games). Obviously we all know which direction Rockstar went in there..

[Abel.]

does any one know the best place to buy a pc game? online, brick and mortar?

You should really consider giving STEAM a go, I have tried it and found it fantastic. I am hoping that GTA 4 will be released on the Steam network along with a retail version as well.

 

http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php

thank you, but how much freedom does steam give you when it comes to mods for a game?

That depends on the developer. Steam can allow developers to lock down their games fully, or complete modding freedom (like Valve's games). Obviously we all know which direction Rockstar went in there..

Yes indeed, Valve is great, but the EA store's good too.

[jelly]

You're kidding me? 6 months download limitation, a nominal fee to extend that by two years? When you buy a game on Steam, you actually own it. It's there forever, you can download it ten years after you bought it.

[CharmingCharlie]

Yeah got to echo jallar's sentiments here, I nearly bought Crysis from EA's download store till I saw they only let you grab it for 6 months and after that you have to pay FULL price again unless you take out the "optional" warranty. I would suggest avoiding EA's download store like the plague, that kind of crap does not deserve to be supported.

[Jackmackg]

That depends on the developer. Steam can allow developers to lock down their games fully, or complete modding freedom (like Valve's games). Obviously we all know which direction Rockstar went in there..

man i dont want them to decide. ill just buy from the store.

[SynTerro]

You're kidding me? 6 months download limitation, a nominal fee to extend that by two years? When you buy a game on Steam, you actually own it. It's there forever, you can download it ten years after you bought it.

Did'nt know this about EA store.

 

Is it possible to backup the downloads and use that to install it later?

 

BTW Jallar, can you fix this topic it got a horrible error about Mafia 2.

[jelly]

omg. sacrilege

 

fixed

[mkey82]

That may be true, but the thing is however that, while power is not needed for innovation, it does greatly help developers to push the envelope, and is a large contributing factor in the overall experience.

Well, they can't really push the envelope on consoles when the hardware is obsolete. Wii makes this point perfectly. They don't want to have the nicest and shiniest graphics. They don't steal PC franchises. They want people to have some fun while not rob the blind. PS3 and x360 have a logistic support which is unmatched in gaming history. Gaming on those consoles is captioned as cheap, while it's insanely expensive, when you factor in all the hidden costs. There is a reason people are "moving to" consoles. Actually, "moving down" would fit better. Developers can produce sh*tty games and people will buy it by truckloads.

 

Where Wii offers versatility, MS and Sony offer HDinitis and such bull. Where Wii offers fun, MS and Sony offer titles stolen from PC, games that are just not fit to be played with gamepads. Maybe sometime in the future a special gamepad will surpass the k&m input method, but not right now.

 

Consoles IMO should be cheap, durable, slick, fun and easy to use. To provide some arcade fun to people which require it. Wii offers that. PS3 and x360 don't. With them is all about which console is more capable and which console has more exclusives. It's not about having fun, it's about shafting the opposition. Shameful business, if you ask me.

 

And Charmers, about x360 breaking even. Is it even possible with the 30% failure rate? They are currently loosing what, like 500,000,000$ (I intentionally put all those zeros). They would need to sell/steal a lot more games to break even. And with each console they put out on the market they loose a bit more.

[Abel.]

 

Mirror's Edge looks like it'll be one of the best games this year, along with Far Cry 2 and Red Alert 3.

And... CRYSIS: Warhead, FarCry 2 looks just awesome. The EA store isn't horrific, but all round, Steam hammers many of the other

online stores into dust.

 

Kingvercetti: The 9800GX2 is bloody massive, maybe the 9800GTX woul be a more practical choice.

Edited July 21, 2008 by elanman

[CharmingCharlie]

 

And Charmers, about x360 breaking even. Is it even possible with the 30% failure rate? They are currently loosing what, like 500,000,000$ (I intentionally put all those zeros). They would need to sell/steal a lot more games to break even. And with each console they put out on the market they loose a bit more.

Well like everything with Microsoft it depends on how you actually look at things. If you look at the xbox 360 per unit then it is making a profit on every console sold. If you look at the yearly revenue for the 360 I believe this year it is making a slight profit. However if you look at the lifespan of the 360 so far it is a fair few billion in the hole. Oh and if you really want to be objective you should really add the $5 billion MS lost with the first Xbox.

 

To put all this into perspective with MS. In the past 18 months at least 180 MILLION copies of windows Vista have been sold. MS needs the PC more than ever just look at this :-

 

 

In its annual financial statement, Microsoft has announced that the company has generated revenues worth $60 billion, with a 25% increase in its yearly net income.

 

source :- http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-173044.aspx

 

It is staggering the complacency of MS, it is thanks to the PC it is earning $60 billion a year and it wastes probably about 10% of that propping up the xbox 360. Now just imagine what a powerhouse the PC would be if those wasted billions were redirected into PC games software. No console would stand a chance against that kind of onslaught. Instead MS divides it's resources up and gives scant attention to the PC whilst whoring their damn toy all over the place.

[Abel.]

And Charmers, about x360 breaking even. Is it even possible with the 30% failure rate? They are currently loosing what, like 500,000,000$ (I intentionally put all those zeros). They would need to sell/steal a lot more games to break even. And with each console they put out on the market they loose a bit more.

Well like everything with Microsoft it depends on how you actually look at things. If you look at the xbox 360 per unit then it is making a profit on every console sold. If you look at the yearly revenue for the 360 I believe this year it is making a slight profit. However if you look at the lifespan of the 360 so far it is a fair few billion in the hole. Oh and if you really want to be objective you should really add the $5 billion MS lost with the first Xbox.

 

To put all this into perspective with MS. In the past 18 months at least 180 MILLION copies of windows Vista have been sold. MS needs the PC more than ever just look at this :-

 

 

In its annual financial statement, Microsoft has announced that the company has generated revenues worth $60 billion, with a 25% increase in its yearly net income.

 

source :- http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-173044.aspx

 

It is staggering the complacency of MS, it is thanks to the PC it is earning $60 billion a year and it wastes probably about 10% of that propping up the xbox 360. Now just imagine what a powerhouse the PC would be if those wasted billions were redirected into PC games software. No console would stand a chance against that kind of onslaught. Instead MS divides it's resources up and gives scant attention to the PC whilst whoring their damn toy all over the place.

It's popularity is because of hype, let's take a step back in time, to late 2005...

 

Bill, the random 360 owner: 'WOW! Look at the graphics on the 360!!!! Incredible!'

 

His friend Ben: 'I know! Look how shiny!'

 

 

I can assure you, something of this calibre has occurred in the past 3 years. HL2 was released in 2004, brilliant facial detail,

bloom and textures, it still impresses today. However, Bill and Ben wont know anything about Gordon Freeman's 2nd

adventure until the Orange Box 360 release in 2007. 3 years after it's release on PC, let's compare:

 

Perfect Dark Zero:

 

 

HL2, PC:

 

 

Which looks better? I think you know...

[Otter]

Paaaaaaaaaage stretch.

 

Anyhow, I think PC gaming should be the focus of this topic, not how much better it is than consoles - we all already know.

 

Fallout 3 - using a very similar engine to Oblivion. Will it be as simple to mod? If so, first mod for me is a 'replant the environment' mod, where you can literally spread seeds and see your plantlife slowly grow. Put some f*cking green in that wasteland, you know?

[fox09]

Depends if they release an SDK, or Construction Set, like they did for Oblivion. With any luck they will. God knows the only reason I still play Oblivion is because of the mods.