Official PC Gamers Topic V3

[Fnorg]

Now what is Bioware up to?

 

http://dragonage.bioware.com/

An RPG.

[Sunrise Driver]

Tell me please, what did Epic Games, Kevin U., Emil P. bad for PC?

[CharmingCharlie]

Tell me please, what did Epic Games, Kevin U., Emil P. bad for PC?

Well Epic are constantly bashing the PC and finding plenty of things to say about why the PC does everything wrong. As for Kevin Unangst he is basically a stooge of MS using the trojan horse of Game for Windows to destory the PC platform.

 

Finally Emil Pagliarulo (lead designer of the dumbed down fallout 3) has already expressed how he is now a "console gamer" and basically he is taking all of Bethesda's pc franchises and turning them into console popcorn rubbish.

[007 RoadRunner]

Tell me please, what did Epic Games, Kevin U., Emil P. bad for PC?

Don't go there mate, there are at least half a dozen people that will reply with hatred, anger and rage to everything they do. They gave interviews in which they state PCs are for everything you can imagine except games, ignored the PC and left the PC fanbase for dead. I'm too lazy to find all the articles but trust me that it's pretty bad.

[Sunrise Driver]

 

Well Epic are constantly bashing the PC and finding plenty of things to say about why the PC does everything wrong.

It's very interesting. I didn't know it. Epic developed Unreal Series, Gears of War for PC so I thought that they are normal company.

 

 

Finally Emil Pagliarulo (lead designer of the dumbed down fallout 3) has already expressed how he is now a "console gamer" and basically he is taking all of Bethesda's pc franchises and turning them into console popcorn rubbish.

To turn great RPGs like Fallout and TES into console way? Emil is really sick. Hope they will release their future titles on PC too.

[jelly]

 

Well Epic are constantly bashing the PC and finding plenty of things to say about why the PC does everything wrong.

It's very interesting. I didn't know it. Epic developed Unreal Series, Gears of War for PC so I thought that they are normal company.

It's a bit less sunny than that.

 

Epic developed the Unreal series for the PC, releasing a new iteration practically every year, they made a bit of money.

 

Now, at some point during the development of Unreal Engine 3, Tim Sweeney and his bouquet of cocks decided that developing this engine for consoles was a very bright idea. During this development they continuously derided the PC platform they had grown themselves big and fat on.

 

Gears of War was developed for the Xbox 360, and later ported for the PC. This is quite evident from the complete lack of AA support in the engine, the shoddy story, the third-person perspective clearly not developed for keyboard and mouse, the silly 'cover system' made for people who can't aim (which is anyone with a gamepad), the massive tones of grey and brown everywhere which is practically the definition of a 'next gen' game (oh no you have color in your game, you're too fun, go to the Wii with your game), and that the PC release was delayed for a year.

 

No, if you didn't guess already, I'm never buying an Epic game again. Well, not until they boot out half the development team and get them to work on the next Hello Kitty game on the Wii because that's where they belong.

[Abel.]

 

Well Epic are constantly bashing the PC and finding plenty of things to say about why the PC does everything wrong.

It's very interesting. I didn't know it. Epic developed Unreal Series, Gears of War for PC so I thought that they are normal company.

It's a bit less sunny than that.

 

Epic developed the Unreal series for the PC, releasing a new iteration practically every year, they made a bit of money.

 

Now, at some point during the development of Unreal Engine 3, Tim Sweeney and his bouquet of cocks decided that developing this engine for consoles was a very bright idea. During this development they continuously derided the PC platform they had grown themselves big and fat on.

 

Gears of War was developed for the Xbox 360, and later ported for the PC. This is quite evident from the complete lack of AA support in the engine, the shoddy story, the third-person perspective clearly not developed for keyboard and mouse, the silly 'cover system' made for people who can't aim (which is anyone with a gamepad), the massive tones of grey and brown everywhere which is practically the definition of a 'next gen' game (oh no you have color in your game, you're too fun, go to the Wii with your game), and that the PC release was delayed for a year.

 

No, if you didn't guess already, I'm never buying an Epic game again. Well, not until they boot out half the development team and get them to work on the next Hello Kitty game on the Wii because that's where they belong.

Well, I don't know. I love Gears Of War For Windows, however, the fact that you have to

pay to get the most out of online for it (like 360 owners) is retarded; however, I enjoy the online with silver memberchip (free).

But you are right about the 'definition of next gen', Jallar, my man. Now, Gears looks a lot nicer on PC than on the XBOX, but, come on,

the 360 is REALLY being pushed to it's limits at the moment, it's having trouble coughing up the Textures in Mass Effect and some other

games. Now it's a good console, very good, maybe, but the PS3 is the only console that is even diminitvely future-proof in comparison

to the PC. PC never really went throught the 'next gen' phase, HL2, Farcry, both games released in 2004, but should they be

classed as 'next gen?', well HL2 100%, however, I'm sure a lot of you remember an advert sometime in 2006, it was for the 360,

here's a direct quote:

 

'The Next Generation is here, in over 100 titles'.

 

WHAT?!! The Next Generation's been here for a lot longer than MS stated there. It's just that people are BLIND, now, when the 360 was

released and all my friends bought it (I waited for the PS3 ) guess what one of them said: 'the graphics are like real life!!'

'There's no lip syncing on games!'. But these statements are both lies, and he, nor anyone else I knew had even heard of HL2, which

looked far better than ANY of the 360's launch titles, with better physics, facial detail and animation.

 

Don't worry, Epic WILL come crawling back after countless bribes from MS forcing them not to deliver games on the PS3 or PC;

and besides, we have loads of games from more faithful devs (Cheers Valve) coming our way...Just wait.

[Sunrise Driver]

 

Don't worry, Epic WILL come crawling back after countless bribes from MS forcing them not to deliver games on the PS3 or PC; and besides, we have loads of games from more faithful devs (Cheers Valve) coming our way...Just wait.

UT - is a rapid shooter and you won't play good on joystick, even if you a pro. You'll enjoy the game only with keyboard and mouse. I hope that Epic think so and will develop games for PC in future.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Street Mix

[Creed Bratton]

This console whore sh*t will last maybe 2 years. But with new graphic cards and processors more powerful then PS3 or 360 games will once again rise on PC. And now that both ATI is releasing new pretty cheap graphic cards nVidia had to lower prices on their cards. So graphic card upgrades wont be as costly as it was last 2 years. And developers love to make games with better graphics and more possibilities. I'm sure PCs will not be forgotten

Edited July 7, 2008 by GTAvanja

[jelly]

 

Do you foresee a future with one console, or one locus of gaming?

 

NB: Yeah. It's going to be the PC. Really, what the answer is, whether you talk about software solutions, like the Media Center PC or what have you, all you have to do is have a PC with a good graphics card hooked to the internet, hooked to the living room TV, with good user interfaces, and boom, you're there. That's starting to happen more and more.

 

There are huge benefits to open platforms, as opposed to closed platforms. The PC is open, so it's going to have another interesting part. A lot of people haven't woken up to the fact that you now have hardware encryption, and hardware encryption allows you to actually sell games that if you have a license for it you can play, and if you don't have a license for it, you can't play.

 

Most of the consoles have existed because of the inability to monetize software on the other consoles. Imagine actually having a game that you can sell in China and earn money from it. Because of the hardware encryption, the TPM chip that's now on virtually all motherboards, that's going to happen.

 

You don't think they'll find a way to get around that in China?

 

NB: Nope.

 

I'm skeptical of that. They always find a way.

 

NB: We always say that all of us are smarter than any of us, but when you have a private secret that is more than just a number -- that's an actual algorithm, in which the secret that's held in hardware -- you really can't get around it. Remember, games are a whole different ballgame than movies or music. If I can hear the music, I can copy it. If I can see the movie, I can copy it. Games, you're down into the bowels of code. You can maybe copy the concept, but you have to rewrite the game. And that is, in general, not a really doable thing.

 

But with hardware encryption, if your motherboard goes, so too do all of your games, unless there's something set up there.

 

NB: Well, key management is actually one of the areas that a lot of people are talking about, but in terms of monetizing your software investment, I think the thing has changed. I mean, software has always... you're always going to be able to crack it. Once it's cracked, it's cracked once and cracked for all, so there's an opportunity to it.

 

But when there's a different secret in every hardware system, crack once doesn't mean crack for all. I just think it's a really different thing. Remember, the reason you believe that China can crack any code is that up until now, it's been all of these software straw men who have said, "My system is crack-free." That's just not the case anymore.

 

It seems like maybe online registration keys are more feasible, in terms of being able to still have your game, if everything is connected online. If things are just stored locally, then developers or publishers...

 

TL: It also circles back to the whole idea of the whole advertising model of games. You're going to see more of that, and it lends itself to the PC and the combination thereof. You're going to see games that were being sold, six months from now, tests and trials of free-but-with-advertising-supported models with them.

 

NB: Yeah, there are a lot of games right now that were perfectly dreadful games last year and have zero market value, whereas if you play them for nothing or on an ad watch, all of a sudden there's some... the bad games are not quite so fail-hard.

 

In terms of having the PC be the future console for people, I think there's still a lot of consumer education that needs to happen for that to be possible.

 

NB: Absolutely.

 

My mom still asks me how to attach a document to an e-mail, because she can't figure it out.

 

NB: It's even worse than that. We've got one of these wire octopuses behind our television set, from the stereo system around it, the surround sound, three different kinds of video games, a DVD player, and this and that.

 

And I say to myself, "Okay, there are actually households in the world in which one of the members is not an electrical engineer. What the hell do they do?" (laughter) I spent a half an hour the other day just to get my DVD working again, because the kids have been messing around. I said, "There's got to be a better way, here."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3717...ame_.php?page=4

[mkey82]

 

But when there's a different secret in every hardware system, crack once doesn't mean crack for all. I just think it's a really different thing. Remember, the reason you believe that China can crack any code is that up until now, it's been all of these software straw men who have said, "My system is crack-free." That's just not the case anymore.

This Nolan Bushnell is an OK chap, but what is he talking about - uncrackable protection? OK, hardware locking is not new, there are various USB dongles. Every key can be different, but the software can be modified in a way it will accept to work with anything. You can even not have a required USB key. I'm sure it's pretty much the same with any hardware key on MBOs.

 

I sure hope this doesn't count as an warez discussion

[Fnorg]

And developers love to make games with better graphics and more possibilities to earn cash. I'm sure PCs will not be forgotten

Changed that for you.

[CharmingCharlie]

I have to admit I think the PC is in very real danger now. The danger isn't from consoles or lack of developer support, it's from the TPM chip. The more I read about this trusted platform chip the more it scares the hell out of me.

 

Basically put it is a chip that can severely restrict YOUR usage of YOUR pc, we are not just talking software here we are talking EVERYTHING, games, movies and practically everything that runs on your PC. A company can decide how YOU get to use stuff you paid for

 

Now here is the real kicker if you have a new motherboard less than two years old you probably have the TPM chip, bet you didn't know that did you ? they kept that real quiet didn't they, I wonder why ? Oh and there is no way to find out if you have the TPM chip on your motherboard either. From what I can tell if you have a PC capable of using bitlocker on vista then you have the tpm chip.

 

Now from what I understand most TPM chips are currently inactive, they are just using this time to ensure everyone ends up with a motherboard that has a TPM. I imagine within the next year or two we will start to see programs that will only run if you have the TPM chip enabled. I guess we will see what we shall see, but I personally thing this is a very real danger to the PC and it won't do diddly squat for games sales, if anything it will kill them even more. I certainly will not buy games that use the TPM chip.

[Creed Bratton]

No matter what they say, IT WILL BE CRACKED

 

And I will actually draw extreme pleasure pirating games if they keep trying to control us and our PCs

[freak2121]

No matter what they say, IT WILL BE CRACKED

 

And I will actually draw extreme pleasure pirating games if they keep trying to control us and our PCs

Yeah same here.

[Crokey]

No matter what they say, IT WILL BE CRACKED

 

And I will actually draw extreme pleasure pirating games if they keep trying to control us and our PCs

That's why I miss the days of MS-DOS, where you could do what the f*ck you liked with everything, now it's just a little too uppity and one of the reasons I'm not updating to Vista as it seems they are taking more control off you.

[mkey82]

That's why I miss the days of MS-DOS, where you could do what the f*ck you liked with everything, now it's just a little too uppity and one of the reasons I'm not updating to Vista as it seems they are taking more control off you.

Yeah, the only problem with DOS was if you wanted to listen to some sweet music while working on some text you needed a second machine as all the machines were single thread only

 

This TPM stuff (I have to admit, this is the first time I hear of it and somehow I care for my old PC a bit more now ) seems rather standard to me. They contain some sort of algorithm, right? The OS can access it and issue some hardware key you use to activate some software, game or multimedia. As I see it the problem with standard hardware hashes is that it changes each time you change some piece of hardware (which apparently happens quite often with you PC freaks ) the hash changes and you can not activate your product anymore without contacting some people at the company support. This way the algorithm changes only when you change the MBO.

 

If this method turns out to be unprofitable, they will change their ways soon enough. Even though I'm getting a bit sick and tired of this "let's monitor everything" idea some sad f*cks are trying to implement. As I understand it's a bit more advanced in UK, with all those security cameras placed everywhere. We are getting closer each day to those nice fields of crops in Matrix.

[Crokey]

That's why I miss the days of MS-DOS, where you could do what the f*ck you liked with everything, now it's just a little too uppity and one of the reasons I'm not updating to Vista as it seems they are taking more control off you.

Yeah, the only problem with DOS was if you wanted to listen to some sweet music while working on some text you needed a second machine as all the machines were single thread only

I'm going to sound like an old bastard here, but back in my day we had these things called CD-Players

 

As for this TPM thing, it'll be hacked in no time and altered so it doesn't effect you and there isn't a thing that they could do about it either as it's not affecting one companies interest it's for your own benefit, PC's have never been one persons/companies forte. Actually I find TPM to be like DRM, pointless and unnecessary and there are things that you can do so as not to be affected by it

[mkey82]

 

I'm going to sound like an old bastard here, but back in my day we had these things called CD-Players

Yeah, we youngsters have tis brand new invention - multi tasking PCs which assign itsy bitsy slices of CPU processing time to each and every running process

 

BTW, that DRM bullsh*t is one large piece of crap. For example, if you make some wma files from an audio cd with WMP, those wma's become dependent on your current OS. After reinstalling you loose the keys and thusly you loose all the music you had in that format. Also, there isn't an option to uninstall (remove) those keys from your drive. MS explained it by saying they didn't see why would anyone want to remove them, so there was no need for an uninstall "option". Pretty lame, if you ask me.

[SynTerro]

I'm going to sound like an old bastard here, but back in my day we had these things called CD-Players

Yeah, we youngsters have tis brand new invention - multi tasking PCs which assign itsy bitsy slices of CPU processing time to each and every running process

 

BTW, that DRM bullsh*t is one large piece of crap. For example, if you make some wma files from an audio cd with WMP, those wma's become dependent on your current OS. After reinstalling you loose the keys and thusly you loose all the music you had in that format. Also, there isn't an option to uninstall (remove) those keys from your drive. MS explained it by saying they didn't see why would anyone want to remove them, so there was no need for an uninstall "option". Pretty lame, if you ask me.

Not only is DRM unnecessary, some DRM has proven to be illegal and dangerous spy and malware like StarForce and SecuRom. We consumers need to wake up against these, the action against StarForce worked as some devs decided to drop it, and we need to continue with the pressure.

 

I have personaly experienced the effects of StarForce, my computer restarted without warning everytime I tried to burn a legal backup of something not even protected by StarForce. When I removed starforce I suddenly experienced a much quicker startup and no trouble with burning at all.

[Fnorg]

GeForce 9800 768 MB vs. GeForce 8800 1024 SLI. Which one is better? I'd guess the 8800(s).

[jelly]

Neither of those exist - do you mean 8800GTX 768MB vs. 9800GTX 512MB vs. GTX 280 1024MB?

 

The 280 costs too much for the performance you get.

 

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14934

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14990

[Fnorg]

Neither of those exist - do you mean 8800GTX 768MB vs. 9800GTX 512MB vs. GTX 280 1024MB?

 

The 280 costs too much for the performance you get.

 

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14934

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14990

XFX GeForce 8800 GT 1024MB DDR3 / PCI-E / SLI / 2xDVI / TV-OUT

 

Copied and pasted that info from Pricerunner. 211 dollars for it. The 9800 I mention was just an example, I was hoping it would exist. If that 8800 doesn't exist, Amazon's ripping people off.

 

Which one is better? 8800GTX 768MB or 8800 GT 1024MB (with all of the fancy stuff on the first line). GTX is the high-end version of the nVidia cards, right? One more thing:

 

GeForce 8800 GT 1024MB DDR3 / PCI-E / SLI / 2xDVI / TV-OUT vs. 9800GTX 512MB?

[Creed Bratton]

Why dont you just get one of those new Radeon 4800 series cards. They are quite cheap. Just wait before thy put a new cooler on those things. It should be very soon

[jelly]

Neither of those exist - do you mean 8800GTX 768MB vs. 9800GTX 512MB vs. GTX 280 1024MB?

 

The 280 costs too much for the performance you get.

 

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14934

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14990

XFX GeForce 8800 GT 1024MB DDR3 / PCI-E / SLI / 2xDVI / TV-OUT

 

Copied and pasted that info from Pricerunner. 211 dollars for it. The 9800 I mention was just an example, I was hoping it would exist. If that 8800 doesn't exist, Amazon's ripping people off.

 

Which one is better? 8800GTX 768MB or 8800 GT 1024MB (with all of the fancy stuff on the first line). GTX is the high-end version of the nVidia cards, right? One more thing:

 

GeForce 8800 GT 1024MB DDR3 / PCI-E / SLI / 2xDVI / TV-OUT vs. 9800GTX 512MB?

Oh, a non-reference version.

 

Well, the 8800GT was originally designed for a 512MB frame buffer and has a 256-bit memory bus, so you're not going to see any advantage of that 1024MB unless you play at very high resolutions (say 1920x1200). This is a good reference for comparisons:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of...rocessing_units

 

In my opinion you should take a look at the 4850 and 4870 from ATI instead.

[Fnorg]

Neither of those exist - do you mean 8800GTX 768MB vs. 9800GTX 512MB vs. GTX 280 1024MB?

 

The 280 costs too much for the performance you get.

 

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14934

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14990

XFX GeForce 8800 GT 1024MB DDR3 / PCI-E / SLI / 2xDVI / TV-OUT

 

Copied and pasted that info from Pricerunner. 211 dollars for it. The 9800 I mention was just an example, I was hoping it would exist. If that 8800 doesn't exist, Amazon's ripping people off.

 

Which one is better? 8800GTX 768MB or 8800 GT 1024MB (with all of the fancy stuff on the first line). GTX is the high-end version of the nVidia cards, right? One more thing:

 

GeForce 8800 GT 1024MB DDR3 / PCI-E / SLI / 2xDVI / TV-OUT vs. 9800GTX 512MB?

Oh, a non-reference version.

 

Well, the 8800GT was originally designed for a 512MB frame buffer and has a 256-bit memory bus, so you're not going to see any advantage of that 1024MB unless you play at very high resolutions (say 1920x1200). This is a good reference for comparisons:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of...rocessing_units

 

In my opinion you should take a look at the 4850 and 4870 from ATI instead.

That card that's more powerful than all three consoles put together? Sounds good, and 300-ish dollars is a really good deal. I chose those because they're "mainstream" cards, and easier for me to compare, as I have even less knowledge about ATI cards. Thanks. I'll be buying a new PC in October (once the vacation is paid off) and it comes with an 8600, which I'd like to replace. I'm not gonna be playing Crysis, but why not go all out and get a really good gaming PC? My 6800 isn't what it once was.

[mkey82]

OK, I have updated the wall of shame.

 

 

I have to agree that Cliff stands out in this bunch as he is obviously the most demented one. He reminds me of this person I know in the real life and this is not a good thing as he's just insane and nobody can stand him.

[DML]

 

OK, I have updated the wall of shame.

 

 

I have to agree that Cliff stands out in this bunch as he is obviously the most demented one. He reminds me of this person I know in the real life and this is not a good thing as he's just insane and nobody can stand him.

Nicely done. Better than mine too.

 

I like how Microsoft has a large area devoted to it. Sony doesn't need to be on it as they are just known to be a company of shame, greed, low-quality products, and dirty deeds...done dirt cheap.

 

I'm a bit worried though, why is Bethesda on the wall? I know the Elderscrolls games should not be on consoles, and that they are less of a game because of it, but please don't tell me they've done something like Rockstar have without me knowing.

[mkey82]

 

I'm a bit worried though, why is Bethesda on the wall?  I know the Elderscrolls games should not be on consoles, and that they are less of a game because of it, but please don't tell me they've done something like Rockstar have without me knowing.

Prepare yourself

 

http://kotaku.com/387903/fallout-3-lead-we...ole-players-now

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=c...=10342&Itemid=2

 

They are making Fallout 3 for consoles. Their Emil Pagliarulo said "We are console gamers now". Yeah, now they have matured and turned into console whores... erm gamers. One word - lame.

 

Oh, yeah, I haven't included Sony as they have basically nothing to do with PC gaming. Console is their platform and the fact they corrupted R* speaks more about R* then Sony. While MS is a true and true PC backstabbing company so they deserve what they get.

Edited July 11, 2008 by mkey82

[DML]

 

...lame.

Lame indeed...especially since that guy was one of the designers of Thief at Looking Glass Studios. I think some people catch a little disease known as "dickheadism", which leads to a bad case of "Next Degeneration" (AKA Console Whoritis).