Volkswagen EPA scandal

[Flachbau]

So is this gonna really affect anyone like a buyer?

 

Don't think so, tbh. If you ask a handful of drivers out on the road, many might not even care. It depends on the mindset of the driver. Prices of used TDI vehicles will (and most likely have already) decrease significantly.

 

In terms of laws and anything related to government? Maybe..? If you go for an inspection they will probably notify you of the issue.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Android

[Gamerjman19]

 

So is this gonna really affect anyone like a buyer?

 

Don't think so, tbh. If you ask a handful of drivers out on the road, many might not even care. It depends on the mindset of the driver. Prices of used TDI vehicles will (and most likely have already) decrease significantly.

 

In terms of laws and anything related to government? Maybe..? If you go for an inspection they will probably notify you of the issue.

 

So if I found a mk3 or mk4 golf, I could buy it and register it without any problems?

Edited October 3, 2015 by Gamerjman19

[CoreyDog2014]

 

So is this gonna really affect anyone like a buyer?

Don't think so, tbh. If you ask a handful of drivers out on the road, many might not even care. It depends on the mindset of the driver. Prices of used TDI vehicles will (and most likely have already) decrease significantly.

 

In terms of laws and anything related to government? Maybe..? If you go for an inspection they will probably notify you of the issue.

I see that in the UK it has allegedly effected 1.2 million vehicles.

 

At present I can't see it affecting any owners, but this depends on the Government response. Will they reevaluate the tax band based on actual emissions instead of doctered figures? They would be in their rights to alter them on this basis. Potentially cost people alot more money.

 

What about emission tests at MOT? Will they fail them all now?

 

It's a tough situation for current owners as they really don't know where they stand. Could be a good time to snap up a cheap car though used, depends if willing to take the risk.

[TheMcSame]

I see that in the UK it has allegedly effected 1.2 million vehicles.

At present I can't see it affecting any owners, but this depends on the Government response. Will they reevaluate the tax band based on actual emissions instead of doctered figures? They would be in their rights to alter them on this basis. Potentially cost people alot more money.

 

What about emission tests at MOT? Will they fail them all now?

 

It's a tough situation for current owners as they really don't know where they stand. Could be a good time to snap up a cheap car though used, depends if willing to take the risk.

 

The tax bands are changing in 2017 and they're still based on CARBON output, not NOx output, unless the government decides to slip in a quick change, it means nothing for road tax.

 

The affected vehicles will pass the CURRENT emissions test. As far as I'm aware, diesel emissions tests only test for smoke density, as long as it isn't spewing out dense blue smoke or rolling coals it'll pass. Whether this whole VW thing will change the test is anyone's guess, even if it does change, it'd probably only apply to cars registered after a certain date.

Edited October 3, 2015 by TheMcSame

[sivispacem]

 

 

So is this gonna really affect anyone like a buyer?

Don't think so, tbh. If you ask a handful of drivers out on the road, many might not even care. It depends on the mindset of the driver. Prices of used TDI vehicles will (and most likely have already) decrease significantly.

 

In terms of laws and anything related to government? Maybe..? If you go for an inspection they will probably notify you of the issue.

 

So if I found a mk3 or mk4 golf, I could buy it and register it without any problems?

Yes, it only affects Euro 5 compliant engines- not earlier Euro 4 or less, or the newest Euro 6 ones.

[bloatedsack]

but they were playing by the rules.

 

right now the biggest issue is that we don't know if VW was the only manufacturer who was doing this or if they were merely the first ones to be caught.

 

They wrote a system that detects when it's being tested then runs a second profile to come under legal limits, but only during testing. You've got a funny definition of "by the rules."

 

Nope, they earned everything they've got coming to them. I even liked the several Volkswagens I owned (except the diesel, it was a dog and due to escalating diesel fuel costs did not pay for itself or it's extra headaches).

[DMC14]

that'll learn ya for buying crap cars.

 

also those mpg figures dont account for lead foot drivers.

[Flachbau]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/vws-us-chief-blames-cheating-on-rogue-german-software-engineers-89896.html

 

So a few rogue engineers decided to cheat and mess with 11 million vehicles?

[El Dildo]

it will be interesting to see who exactly is made out as the scapegoat.

aside from the CEO stepping aside (which is just Public Relations) it's not like Top Brass are going to take the heat. they'll find whoever they need to find within the company to take the fall and attempt to alleviate the notion that this was a company-wide practice.

[RedDagger]

In addition to Svip's link, 4 more are thrown into the fray. Ain't that a surprise.

[sivispacem]

Was just about to post that. Not at all surprised.

[epoxi]

There's still time to grab a bargain.

 

 

But then again this particular emissions problem is inherent to diesels and no one relies on diesel sales more than VAG, the other manufacturers still have a strong range of petrols or hybrids to fall back on. Plus we don't know what compensation VW will have to shell out.

Edited October 9, 2015 by epoxi

[Svip]

I hope politicians will take note and outlaw diesel for personal vehicles. Compensate by making petrol, which turns out to be better for everyone, cheap again.

[TheMcSame]

Well if diesels did get outlawed, I for one would move over to an auto hybrid. Can't deal with manual petrols, no torque at the low end at all (makes stop and go traffic a pain in the ass) and (petrols in general) get sh*t on when it comes to road tax unless it's an underpowered engine.

Edited October 9, 2015 by TheMcSame

[epoxi]

The downside of hybrids is that they are complex, expensive to build and are inefficient over long distances.

 

Despite that, I do think plug-in hybrids are the right direction because they encourage research and development into batteries and regenerative systems which will be very useful in working towards a properly electric future. They can also make use of overnight electricity which is in surplus, act as a backup power supply (a la Tesla power packs) and with nuclear power the prospect of minimising CO2 emissions via changes to the power grid is much more realistic.

 

Diesel was a bit of a dead end, even if you made a car twice as efficient and 100% particulate free, you are still going to need oil and will still cause a net increase in CO2 (unless you use biodiesel which has huge implications on land supply).

Edited October 9, 2015 by epoxi

[Svip]

Well if diesels did get outlawed, I for one would move over to an auto hybrid. Can't deal with manual petrols, no torque at the low end at all (makes stop and go traffic a pain in the ass) and (petrols in general) get sh*t on when it comes to road tax unless it's an underpowered engine.

 

You just need a bigger engine or a smaller car. And more to the point, in this scenario, petrol engines' road tax would be cut, obviously.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Svip

[sivispacem]

No torque at the low end? Most modern petrols develop about 80% of their peak torque below 2,000rpm. My Leon actually produces peak torque (210lb ft) from 1,800rpm to nearly 4,000, with peak power between 4,000 and 6,000. That's a far bigger power band than most diesels! I'd argue that modern turbo petrols are turned to basically simulate a diesel power and torque curve, just over a much longer rev range.

 

Tax is going to change soon so it won't be biased against petrols. Even £500 a year for post-06 super thirsty stuff isn't actually that expensive though. What, £40 a month?

[TheMcSame]

And more to the point, in this scenario, petrol engines' road tax would be cut, obviously.

I very much doubt that, especially when the tax for the lower bands has been going down while the higher bands (where any decent petrol will sit) have been going up. Of course, it's all changing to a flat rate in 2017 (but only applies to vehicles registered on/after April 1st 2017), but that's the way it has gone in the last 10 years.

 

Tax is going to change soon so it won't be biased against petrols. Even £500 a year for post-06 super thirsty stuff isn't actually that expensive though. What, £40 a month?

Yeah, it's not a huge expense per month, but it's also an expense that could be better spent elsewhere.

Edited October 9, 2015 by TheMcSame

[sivispacem]

Think of it as a small price to pay for not having a stinking, sluggish canal boat for a car.

[Svip]

 

And more to the point, in this scenario, petrol engines' road tax would be cut, obviously.

I very much doubt that, especially when the tax for the lower bands has been going down while the higher bands (where any decent petrol will sit) have been going up. Of course, it's all changing to a flat rate in 2017 (but only applies to vehicles registered on/after April 1st 2017), but that's the way it has gone in the last 10 years.

 

 

In a scenario where politicians outlaw diesel, you doubt taxes on petrol engines will get a cut? I find it far more likely that petrol engines' taxes will get a cut than diesel engines being outlawed.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

So do you guys necessarily agree with the regulations they've broken or do you think they're stupid just like the 25 year import law and sh*t like that?

[epoxi]

I think the regulations they have tried to dodge are very serious. There is no doubt NOx and general particulate emissions have an immediate effect on the population's health. You could say "What damage would it be if my car put out a few grams?" and the answer would be "Not a lot." but multiply those emissions by the millions of cars that can be on the road in a single city, and you have a serious hazard.

 

The side effects are similar to smoking: mainly respiratory diseases like lung cancer, bronchitis and general decreased lung capacity and functionality. When emissions go almost completely unregulated in cities like Delhi, the effects are so severe that I couldn't wear my contact lenses due to the eye irritation, and in certain parts of town I had to wear an operating theatre mask (like many locals) just to breathe comfortably.

 

I think a lot of the world's governments have taken their eye off the ball due to CO2 targets. While cutting CO2 emissions is no doubt a good idea, reducing NOx/particulate emissions is imperative and quite a basic requirement (cars have universally had catalytic converters for over 2 decades now). Think of it like eating more vegetables to get your vitamins at the same time as drinking cholera-ridden water.

 

Edit: You don't need to look very far into the past to see what unregulated emissions looked like in the USA, and note that there were only a fraction of cars on the road back then as there are today:

 

Edited October 13, 2015 by epoxi

[El Dildo]

So do you guys necessarily agree with the regulations they've broken or do you think they're stupid just like the 25 year import law and sh*t like that?

yeah as Epoxi so eloquently pointed out, those tests are kind of a big deal whether you agree with them or not.

 

I guess most people assume poor quality emissions only affects the ozone layer... or something... which is equally bad but not as easily noticeable. in reality the negative effects of poor emissions occur pretty rapidly in anyone who is sensitive to environmental fluctuations. and then I guess that most people assume that their chronic coughing or shortness of breath is due to some unknown allergy. but the fact of the matter is that many undiagnosed respiratory problems (especially in big cities) can inexorably be traced back to local smog/pollution conditions.

Edited October 19, 2015 by El Diablo

[K1FFLOM]

VW has admitted today, that it isn't just the diesel-engines which were fitted with the "malware".

 

No !

 

They said today that around 800.000 engines emit too much CO-2 (!!) than stated by the manufacturer, and amongst those engines are gasoline engines (!!) as well.

 

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Sorry, only a German link atm

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/vw-raeumt-weitere-unregelmaessigkeiten-bei-abgaswerten-ein-a-1060951.html#js-article-comments-box-pager

 

 

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They should close the place down imo. Ford should get to buy the dump as they initially wanted to in the late 1940s. But they later denied to buy as they found that the factory was too close to the Sovjet-Sector for them.

Edited November 3, 2015 by K1FFLOM

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

I'll admit, VAG was my favorite group until this year. Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, Bentley, they were all putting out nice stuff. But then it just got dumb. The Audis started looking boring again, the refreshed 911 is ugly, the Huracan isn't my cup of tea, and Bentley just unveiled their incredibly ugly Bentayga. They've turned me off lately. So this happening to them, I kind of don't care. It would've hurt if we found out about this a year or two ago.

 

Let's be realistic here though. I'm sure VAG isn't the only company that's tried getting around regulations.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Scaglietti

[El Dildo]

VAG clearly isn't the only offender.

 

and I'm not the least bit surprised that the issue was more widespread than just on diesel platforms.

to be honesty I would've been most surprised if they were not fudging the numbers across the board.

 

once they realized how easy it was to get away with, why on god's green Earth would they limit the cheating to just diesel?

the evidence is in: they've been doing this with sports cars and high performance engines for probably as long as they were with the consumer sedans.

 

Porsche and Audi especially.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/advanced-cars/vw-emissions-cheating-scandal-spreads-to-sports-cars

[c_elliott83]

All I can ever say to this is, I own a vw and have had many, and will own another. Great cars if you know how to treat them

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

that'll learn ya for buying crap cars.

 

also those mpg figures dont account for lead foot drivers.

So ignorant I'm not even going to bother explaining why.