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The World's Most Misunderstood Photo - Saigon Execution


Sasuke Uzumaki
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Sasuke Uzumaki

Hey all.

 

I wanted to make this topic because this was very interesting to me.

 

Most of you may have seen this photo, where an asian man is being executed, if not, search Saigon Execution, as the photo is too graphic to post to this forum.

 

 

When you first see this photo, it seems like a harsh reminder of war, it looks like that this is an innocent man being brutally killed. This is far from the truth.

 

The man being executed was a Viet Cong captain of a "revenge squad" by the name of Nguyen Van Lem, who had killed several innocent civilians earlier that day. The man who executed him, General Nguyen Ngoc Loan, was looked at as a villain after the photograph was published.

South Vietnamese sources say that Van Lem had been the leader of a death squad, who had been targeting the families of South Vietnamese police officers. He was questioned by Loan, who later executed him by gunshot to the head. The photographer, Eddie Adams, felt very sorry for Loan, since he had ruined his life after publishing the photo. Adams quoted:

"The general killed the Vietcong; I killed the general with my camera."

Adams later wrote:

Two people died in that photograph: the recipient of the bullet and General Nguyen Ngoc Loan. The general killed the Viet Cong; I killed the general with my camera. Still photographs are the most powerful weapons in the world. People believe them; but photographs do lie, even without manipulation. They are only half-truths. What the photograph didnt say was, What would you do if you were the general at that time and place on that hot day, and you caught the so-called bad guy after he blew away one, two or three American people?. This picture really messed up his life. He never blamed me. He told me if I hadnt taken the picture, someone else would have, but Ive felt bad for him and his family for a long time. I sent flowers when I heard that he had died and wrote, Im sorry. There are tears in my eyes.

 

Adams later apologize to Nguyen and his family in person for the damage he had done to his life.

 

The photograph's legacy haunted Nguyen until his death. When he moved to the United States, there was a campaign set up to deport him, which failed. He was forced into retirement after his identity was disclosed. Nguyen later died of cancer at age 67.

 

 

What do you guys think of this? Was Nguyen right in executing this man without a trial? I think the lesson we should take from this is that an image does not explain everything.

 

Source: http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/saigon-execution-murder-vietcong-saigon-1968/

 

Photographs:

 

LaN8VA9.jpg

 

unmdKL4.jpg

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If the question is, did he deserve a trial, the answer should always be yes, but in the heat of the moment, at war, the rulebook is thrown out the window. So who knows.

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He was a POW and should have been treated as such.

 

One man's hero is another man's devil...

 

Inb4 lock ;)

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Finn 7 five 11

Yes ideally, in a perfect world where nothing ever goes wrong, he should have had a trial.

But this is war, war is brutal, and I think the decision he made wasn't wrong.

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I've seen the pictures and heard this story told a number of times, but this is the first time that I've heard the man executed wasn't really an innocent civilian, but instead a Viet Cong officer who had killed innocent civilians prior to his execution. Just goes to show how people will alter an image and story to fit their agenda, unfortunately. I would've had the same misinformed opinion about these images if it weren't for this thread, so thanks for sharing this.

As for whether or not the execution was justified, I can't really say. Of course it'd be better if he was tried in a court, but when it comes to being in the middle of a warzone and having just found out what atrocities that VC captain had committed, I can't really blame the general for taking action then and there.

"The general killed the Vietcong; I killed the general with my camera."

That's a very powerful quote.

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I thought the worlds most misunderstood photo was this one:

rabbit-or-duck.jpg?fit=720%2C9999

 

Still thumbs up for making this thread, now can we not destroy this thread GTAF? PLZ?

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He was a POW and should have been treated as such.

 

Which he was...

 

Taken from the OP's source;

 

He executed the partisan after he had stumbled upon the bodies of his men and even their families that were killed by Viet Cong. The Vietcong were indiscriminately killing people. Summary execution of partisans is allowable under Geneva. According to Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949, irregular forces are entitled to prisoner of war status provided that they are commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates, have a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, carry arms openly, and conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. If they do not do meet all of these, they may be considered francs-tireurs (in the original sense of “illegal combatant”) and punished as criminals in a military jurisdiction, which may include summary execution. The guy shot was an “illegal Combatant”, a francs-tireurs. Soldiers who are wearing uniforms of the opposing army after the start of combat may be considered illegal combatants and subject to summary execution.

 

Still thumbs up for making this thread, now can we not destroy this thread GTAF? PLZ?

 

Says the guy who post, yet doesn't contribute to the topic.

 

Keep up the good work. :^:

Edited by Static
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7Rj3AZw.png

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Says the guy who post, yet doesn't contribute to the topic.

 

Keep up the good work. :^:

Calling for politeness is not a contribution? :|

(Also dont go to Wikipedia to search for this, the Nguyen Ngoc Loan page has some issues that probably need correction and sources).

Edited by reiniat
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Calling for politeness is not a contribution? :|

 

Not unless the topic at hand is "politeness".

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7Rj3AZw.png

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South Vietnamese sources say that Van Lem had been the leader of a death squad

well to be fair that's what they would say.

they're not going to admit he might have been innocent.

 

who the hell knows. I wasn't there.

war sucks.

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So if I understand it right, this VC general was allowed to execute ''his own people'' after the Vietnam war as the nazi's were allowed to it with theirs after World War 2?

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I always remember this strip when theres an uproar over a photo

 

e61a13ae0ccfc31e27f1880f2d4ca40c.jpg

  • Like 3

WbZaxRP.png

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So if I understand it right, this VC general was allowed to execute ''his own people'' after the Vietnam war as the nazi's were allowed to it with theirs after World War 2?

No...That isn't right where the hell do you get the information you post in these threads?

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@static - Afaik, the executioned was some kind of a VC Captain, hence why Geneva Convention for POWs should apply to him, in a civilized world that is.

This "incident" happened in the early 70's, if I'm not mistaken, so Led Zeppelin ruled back then...

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@static - Afaik, the executioned was some kind of a VC Captain, hence why Geneva Convention for POWs should apply to him, in a civilized world that is.

 

Did you even bother reading the quote in my first post?

 

" If they do not do meet all of these, they may be considered francs-tireurs (in the original sense of “illegal combatant”) and punished as criminals in a military jurisdiction, which may include summary execution. "

 

That was taken from Article 4 of the Geneva Convention. He did not meet ALL of the criteria needed to be deem an "irregular force", mainly the "have a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance" & "and conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.", therefore he wasn't entitled to POW status.

Edited by Static
7Rj3AZw.png

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purrfect_pandora

This doesn't surprise me one bit! further proof that men are glorified by the media despite being violent pigs.

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I'm familiar with this one, good work by the South Vietnamese general srs.

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@static - How exactly do you know that "all the criteria" was/wasn't there?

It was an execution, period!

Either you agree with this MO (you seem to) or you don't (I surely don't),

 

War issues/crimes are somehow dealt in a different manner... Just ask Radovan!

 

Carry on, bed time for me :)

Edited by Eram
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@static - How exactly do you know that "all the criteria" was/wasn't there?

It was an execution, period!

Either you agree with this MO (you seem to) or you don't (I surely don't),

 

War issues/crimes are somehow dealt in a different manner... Just ask Radovan!

 

Carry on, bed time for me :)

 

As far as the criteria being met, I'm not repeating myself a third time. If you can't comprehend that, there's nothing I can do for you. And yes, it was an execution, I don't believe anyone here is stating otherwise. However, it was a justifiable one, IMO. Also, yes war crimes are dealt with differently, hence why they have their own specification as "War Crimes", as opposed to your run-of-the-mill, everyday "crime".

7Rj3AZw.png

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So if I understand it right, this VC general was allowed to execute ''his own people'' after the Vietnam war as the nazi's were allowed to it with theirs after World War 2?

No...That isn't right where the hell do you get the information you post in these threads?

 

I don't say it comes from this thread, I asked if I understood it right.

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So if I understand it right, this VC general was allowed to execute ''his own people'' after the Vietnam war as the nazi's were allowed to it with theirs after World War 2?

No...That isn't right where the hell do you get the information you post in these threads?

 

I don't say it comes from this thread, I asked if I understood it right.

I'm asking where you got that kind of infomation from to make you think that they were "allowed" to kill their people after the war...

 

But to answer your question no you didn't understand that correctly. The Nazi killed anybody and everybody they deemed a traitor leading to the last days of the war and even after the war was declared official over they still killed "Traitors"

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Xing of Virtue

I thought the worlds most misunderstood photo was this one:

rabbit-or-duck.jpg?fit=720%2C9999

 

Still thumbs up for making this thread, now can we not destroy this thread GTAF? PLZ?

Holly Mother of the Lord...
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So if I understand it right, this VC general was allowed to execute ''his own people'' after the Vietnam war as the nazi's were allowed to it with theirs after World War 2?

No...That isn't right where the hell do you get the information you post in these threads?

 

I don't say it comes from this thread, I asked if I understood it right.

I'm asking where you got that kind of infomation from to make you think that they were "allowed" to kill their people after the war...

 

But to answer your question no you didn't understand that correctly. The Nazi killed anybody and everybody they deemed a traitor leading to the last days of the war and even after the war was declared official over they still killed "Traitors"

 

I think we now misunderstand each other.

After World War 2 the S.S was allowed to punish people who they saw as traitors (S.S officials who collaberate/switched sides, but got caught by the Gestapo).

What I thought was that this general in Asia did something simular with people, as the one from the picture. But that isn't the case, right?

Now I get confused even more.

Edited by Claptrap NL
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So if I understand it right, this VC general was allowed to execute ''his own people'' after the Vietnam war as the nazi's were allowed to it with theirs after World War 2?

No...That isn't right where the hell do you get the information you post in these threads?

 

I don't say it comes from this thread, I asked if I understood it right.

I'm asking where you got that kind of infomation from to make you think that they were "allowed" to kill their people after the war...

 

But to answer your question no you didn't understand that correctly. The Nazi killed anybody and everybody they deemed a traitor leading to the last days of the war and even after the war was declared official over they still killed "Traitors"

 

I think we now misunderstand each other.

After World War 2 the S.S was allowed to punish people who they saw as traitors (S.S officials who collaberate/switched sides, but got caught by the Gestapo).

What I thought was that this general in Asia did something simular with people, as the one from the picture. But that isn't the case, right?

Now I get confused even more.

 

No that isn't correct at all....What i said in my last reply is what happened.

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So what? Things like that happen everyday in some parts of the world.

Exactly. This isn't even the worst thing that people do to each other. The US kills their own citizens on a daily basis. Cops in the US can basically get away with murder in most cases. And that's on their own soil in peace time by the people that are payed with tax dollars who are supposed to serve and protect the community. Then there are all those drone killings of US citizens overseas without trial. Like Abdulrahman al-Awlaki. But he was Muslim so it's probably OK, right?

Edited by The Yokel
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After World War 2 the S.S was allowed to punish people who they saw as traitors (S.S officials who collaberate/switched sides, but got caught by the Gestapo).

What I thought was that this general in Asia did something simular with people, as the one from the picture. But that isn't the case, right?

Now I get confused even more.

 

To actually answer your question, General Nguyen Ngoc Loan ( the "executioner") served as the chief of the SVN, South Vietnamese National Police.

Nguyen Van Lem (the condemned) was an officer in the Vietcong who was the leader of a Vietcong "death squad" that, on that particular day, were targeting SVN officers, or in their stead, their families and was captured at the site of a mass grave that included the bodies of at least seven police family members.

 

So in short, they were on opposing sides, nothing like the Nazi example you referred to.

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So what? Things like that happen everyday in some parts of the world.

Exactly. This isn't even the worst thing that people do to each other. The US kills their own citizens on a daily basis. Cops in the US can basically get away with murder in most cases. And that's on their own soil in peace time by the people that are payed with tax dollars who are supposed to serve and protect the community. Then there are all those drone killings of US citizens overseas without trial. Like Abdulrahman al-Awlaki. But he was Muslim so it's probably OK, right?

 

Im just gonna leave this here:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-terrorism-statistics-every-american-needs-to-hear/5382818

On average USA citizens are 10 times more likely to be murdered by the police in their country than by terrorism worldwide (including USA obviously).

 

Hell... Youre most likely to be killed by a deer or a toddler than by terrorism. (i guess thats slightly off topic)

Edited by reiniat
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So what? Things like that happen everyday in some parts of the world.

Exactly. This isn't even the worst thing that people do to each other. The US kills their own citizens on a daily basis. Cops in the US can basically get away with murder in most cases. And that's on their own soil in peace time by the people that are payed with tax dollars who are supposed to serve and protect the community. Then there are all those drone killings of US citizens overseas without trial. Like Abdulrahman al-Awlaki. But he was Muslim so it's probably OK, right?He was a f*cking mass murderer and was responsible for recruiting thousands of people into AQ, good f*cking riddance.

 

Also, his name was Anwar. Nice attempt to be edgy and f*cking getting the guy's name blatantly confused with another AQ leader.

Edited by Irviding
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