Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. Gameplay
      2. Missions
      3. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. Diamond Casino & Resort
      2. DLC
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA 6

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Dee.

What is your POV on theism and vice versa?

Recommended Posts

sivispacem

go on Reddit or Tumblr

It's your own fault for thinking anyone who frequents either is anything more than a troll. Tumble and Reddit aren't really representative of actual people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cyper

I actually agree with a specific interpretation of this:

 

 

 

I suppose the only thing is the irony of the use of the word "atheism" which actually derives from religion seeing as most atheists claim wanting nothing to do with religion.

When for instance, someone on Facebook has 'atheist' or 'agnost' in their profile, I often think it is strange, as I don't understand why it is a relevant aspect of their identity. It's weird to emphasize something you do not do as a part of your identity.

 

Apart from that, I don't agree you can be a religious atheist/agnost. I think religion minimally includes worshipping an immaterial entity. The semantic debate is whether any immaterial entity that is worshipped can be considered a god, or even what 'material' means..,

 

And sometimes as a rhetorical device people use the word 'religion' as a synonym for 'irrational belief', but I also don't think that is a useful definition in a discussion such as this.

 

The reason for this is because not being religious once upon a time (and still in certain socities) was considered odd. Atheism is not a lifestance; it offers no ideas or principles regarding morality or reality. In the same way the belief that santa does not exist does not offer any ideas on morality, the human being, or the world we live in. It's just a stance in one single question - in the first example the existance of God, in the latter the existance of santa. But we rarely use a term to label disbelief in other enteties or objects.

 

Then from that follows the misunderstand that since atheism not not offer views on morality and man, it is therefore dangerous. If this was true, it is equally true to say that those who does not believe in santa holds a potentially dangerous belief since the belief that santa does not exist offers no moral codes.

Edited by Cyper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
make total destroy

 

While this idea that Islam is taking over Europe and making everybody homophobic, conservative dressers is ridiculous, there's something to be said for Islam's devoted adherents as being highly opposed to widely agreed upon liberal elements of western society (homosexuality, premarital sex, etc). Sort of like radical right wing Christians who say the same stuff. Only difference is they don't enjoy the defense of social justice warriors.

 

Did you really just use "social justice warrior" unironically?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MyName'sJeff

Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. Terrorists however have something to do with Islam, and that's only because they know f*ck all about the religion itself. There are certain quotes in the Qur'an which are heavily misinterpreted by them anyway, like completely wrong and mix it with their mental health, it's obviously going to be disastrous. When you see suicide bombers, you should INSTANTLY know that these guys are not Muslims at all, because the Qur'an says that suicide is completely wrong no matter what and you will never enter heaven if you do so, as well as committing murder completely condoned and classed haram. So why do the idiots do it anyway killing children, adults, destroying cars, buildings and themselves thinking they're going to heaven? Because they're all mental and misguided.

Edited by MyName'sJeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Richard Power Colt

Then from that follows the misunderstand that since atheism not not offer views on morality and man, it is therefore dangerous. If this was true, it is equally true to say that those who does not believe in santa holds a potentially dangerous belief since the belief that santa does not exist offers no moral codes.

 

Santa does not offer moral codes and one can believe in God without believing in Santa so it's not really the same thing. Being an atheist implies a lack of something that would offer moral codes so that sort of kinda makes it more justified to say that atheism is dangerous vs not believing in Santa is dangerous. Not that I actually think being atheist is dangerous to others. People find moral codes from other things than religion.

Edited by Nutsack McQueen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cyper

 

 

 

The majority of all muslims in Sweden do not allow same-sex marriage (homophobia), the majority of muslims do not allow consenting sex between people of the same sex (homophobia), and the majority of muslims do not allow same-sex relationsships (homophobia). No muslim organisation in Sweden that I know of condone homosexuality.

[Citation needed]

 

You should look up the history of Swedish politician Abdirizak Waberi or, ex, chairman off the Islamic Federation in Sweden. Or Omar Mustafa. Or look up all the scandals regarding all major muslim organisations in Sweden. Many muslim organisations have been invited to take a stance against homophobia - it have never happened - you may ask yourself why.

 

 

Or you could, you know, cite some sources.

 

 

There's been a TV programme (Uppdrag granskning) which infiltrated the communities and asked questions, and by doing that revealed both homophobia and misogyny among the major muslim organisations. This is a good way to do it. I'd pay lot's of cash to any organisation that expose intolerance and expose those responsible and involved on national TV.

Television shows are like, totally 100% objective, always. They like, never have an agenda. Ever.

 

 

I got to ask, are you surprised? Do you seriously even doubt that homophobia is prevalent among muslims in particular?

 

Without a source, yes, I do doubt it's as prevalent as you claim it is.

 

 

 

This is nothing new. Look into the catholic church, look into jewish organisations. Homophobia is fueled by this poison called religion and the state is condoning it.

I've encountered plenty of atheist bigots in my day. Surely all atheist must be bigots, then?

 

 

First off, no Islamic organisation in Sweden explicitly mention that samesex marriage is not allowed in Islam. Because it is considered to be 'selfevident' that it is not allowed. Hence, no islamic organisation have ever been married a samesex couple. If you're asking any of these organisation to do so they wont do it. Marriage is reserved between a man and a women. None of these organisations have never been involved in the LGBT community and they wont either, for a very long time, because it takes time for muslims to catch up to ordinary morality as with all other religious people.

 

And if you think diffrently you're delusional.

 

Secondly, you're free to look it up for yourself. In a few click on Google or Youtube you can listen to Waberi speaking horribly about women and gay people. Yet again, you're trying to make it look as if nobody know whenever muslims in general are homophobic. It is a problem, and the swedish state is working on it, and if you think that it is not a problem you're delusional.

 

Third, it's completely irrelevant whatever agenda the media has. What's relevant is that one of Swedens finest Imams claimed that homosexuality is a sin and that women ought not to report to the police if they are abused by their husband. This is the ideas that exist within Islam. If you think diffrently, you're delusional.

 

Fourth, there is statistics available on this issue. Muslims belongs to the most homophobic group in Sweden. If you think diffrenly, you're delusional.

(https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800014106/1371914728508/2004_intolerans.pdf)

 

To me it seems like you trivialize real problems that makes a lot of people suffer. Homophobia is a problem in islam and to try to ignore that is intelectually dishonest. As it is in all other abrahamic religions. Or maybe you think that the abrahamic religions in general are isn't very homophobic?

 

I also wonder this: if islam in Sweden isn't homophobic, how come that NO ISLAMIC ORGANISATION in Sweden ever has been involved in LGBT rights? How come that they don't even want to be involved? How come that there are no gay marriage in Islam?

Edited by Cyper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
make total destroy

And if you think diffrently you're delusional.

 

and if you think that it is not a problem you're delusional.

 

If you think diffrently, you're delusional.

 

If you think diffrenly, you're delusional.

 

 

I'm sorry, I didn't catch it the first four times. Would you mind repeating this again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flesh-n-Bone

how come that NO ISLAMIC ORGANISATION in Sweden ever has been involved in LGBT rights? How come that they don't even want to be involved?

They're not obligated to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dingdongs

Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. Terrorists however have something to do with Islam, and that's only because they know f*ck all about the religion itself. There are certain quotes in the Qur'an which are heavily misinterpreted by them anyway, like completely wrong and mix it with their mental health, it's obviously going to be disastrous. When you see suicide bombers, you should INSTANTLY know that these guys are not Muslims at all, because the Qur'an says that suicide is completely wrong no matter what and you will never enter heaven if you do so, as well as committing murder completely condoned and classed haram. So why do the idiots do it anyway killing children, adults, destroying cars, buildings and themselves thinking they're going to heaven? Because they're all mental and misguided.

You can interpret certain verses of the Qu'ran as well as various hadiths to state that, when targeting enemies of Islam, if you martyr yourself and take somebody who is an enemy with you, then it is not prohibited suicide. Unfortunately it's more than people being mental. You have millions of people who agree with this ideology and it all comes right out of the Saudi state. There are different kinds of Quranic verses that can be interpreted in different ways. Remember that Islam itself has 2 main sects, and the majority sect has 4 different interpretations which are highly contrasting. This idea that extremists are all a bunch of lunatics that have absolutely zero grounding in the Qu'ran or various hadiths is simply wrong.

 

 

 

 

go on Reddit or Tumblr

It's your own fault for thinking anyone who frequents either is anything more than a troll. Tumble and Reddit aren't really representative of actual people.

Well, they are actual people. Furthermore, that was simply an example for you to see it live. How you don't notice overt defenses of Islamic radicalism from progressives while they condemn Christian radicalism is what I find strange here.

Edited by Irviding

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
make total destroy

 

How you don't notice overt defenses of Islamic radicalism from progressives while they condemn Christian radicalism is what I find strange here.

 

Meanwhile, communists lead the fight against ISIS.

 

gg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MyName'sJeff

 

 

 

 

The majority of all muslims in Sweden do not allow same-sex marriage (homophobia), the majority of muslims do not allow consenting sex between people of the same sex (homophobia), and the majority of muslims do not allow same-sex relationsships (homophobia). No muslim organisation in Sweden that I know of condone homosexuality.

[Citation needed]

 

You should look up the history of Swedish politician Abdirizak Waberi or, ex, chairman off the Islamic Federation in Sweden. Or Omar Mustafa. Or look up all the scandals regarding all major muslim organisations in Sweden. Many muslim organisations have been invited to take a stance against homophobia - it have never happened - you may ask yourself why.

 

 

Or you could, you know, cite some sources.

 

 

There's been a TV programme (Uppdrag granskning) which infiltrated the communities and asked questions, and by doing that revealed both homophobia and misogyny among the major muslim organisations. This is a good way to do it. I'd pay lot's of cash to any organisation that expose intolerance and expose those responsible and involved on national TV.

Television shows are like, totally 100% objective, always. They like, never have an agenda. Ever.

 

 

I got to ask, are you surprised? Do you seriously even doubt that homophobia is prevalent among muslims in particular?

 

Without a source, yes, I do doubt it's as prevalent as you claim it is.

 

 

 

This is nothing new. Look into the catholic church, look into jewish organisations. Homophobia is fueled by this poison called religion and the state is condoning it.

I've encountered plenty of atheist bigots in my day. Surely all atheist must be bigots, then?

 

 

I also wonder this: if islam in Sweden isn't homophobic, how come that NO ISLAMIC ORGANISATION in Sweden ever has been involved in LGBT rights? How come that they don't even want to be involved? How come that there are no gay marriage in Islam?

 

You're the problem when it comes to homophobia. Why should any organisation be forced to be involved in LGBT rights let alone Islamic one's? Why do you insist shoving down homosexuality down people's throats when they don't give a sh*t if someone is gay or not? You wanna know the truth? In Islam, homosexuality is not allowed and is classed as a sin, and that man and woman are naturally sexual partners, but there's nothing in it that suggests homophobia or any actions that would involve in violence, disrespect or disowning anyone of being gay. A lot of atheists/non religious people don't care or are not involved in lgbt rights, thats fine and dandy, nobody seems to give a sh*t, but when it comes to religion, lets say specifcally Islam, then all of a sudden they are homophobics just because they don't care about it and don't support it?

Edited by MyName'sJeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sivispacem

The whole line of argument is f*cking laughable. I bet there are no albino support groups which are involved in LGBT rights, does that mean all albinos are homophobic too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr_Rager

The whole line of argument is f*cking laughable. I bet there are no albino support groups which are involved in LGBT rights, does that mean all albinos are homophobic too?

People will say Christians are homophobic and everyone will clap and agree, but if somebody says the same about Islam it's deemed shocking, disrespectful, etc.

 

I'm not really sure why that is. Could be the times, could be the media.

 

I don't think you have to support LGBT issues to not be a homophobe. Most of the Christians I knew didn't approve of it, but some of them did...that's what a religious environment does to people, though. Some become atheists, some become very devout believers, others become casual believers. I fell into the latter, most people in that group are fine with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dingdongs

 

 

How you don't notice overt defenses of Islamic radicalism from progressives while they condemn Christian radicalism is what I find strange here.

 

Meanwhile, communists lead the fight against ISIS.

 

gg

I said progressives/liberal westerners not real communists or leftist in general. In fact given your dislike of western progressivism i would expect you to be agreeing with me, srs.

Edited by Irviding

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sivispacem

Also, no-one actually defends Islamic radicalism. The idea of apologism for it actually existing is baffling enough given that, as far as I can tell, it doesn't. Not amongst westerners anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
make total destroy

iirc the Spartacist League defends ISIS, but they're a batsh*t organization that also defends NAMBLA, so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MyName'sJeff

 

Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. Terrorists however have something to do with Islam, and that's only because they know f*ck all about the religion itself. There are certain quotes in the Qur'an which are heavily misinterpreted by them anyway, like completely wrong and mix it with their mental health, it's obviously going to be disastrous. When you see suicide bombers, you should INSTANTLY know that these guys are not Muslims at all, because the Qur'an says that suicide is completely wrong no matter what and you will never enter heaven if you do so, as well as committing murder completely condoned and classed haram. So why do the idiots do it anyway killing children, adults, destroying cars, buildings and themselves thinking they're going to heaven? Because they're all mental and misguided.

You can interpret certain verses of the Qu'ran as well as various hadiths to state that, when targeting enemies of Islam, if you martyr yourself and take somebody who is an enemy with you, then it is not prohibited suicide. Unfortunately it's more than people being mental. You have millions of people who agree with this ideology and it all comes right out of the Saudi state. There are different kinds of Quranic verses that can be interpreted in different ways. Remember that Islam itself has 2 main sects, and the majority sect has 4 different interpretations which are highly contrasting. This idea that extremists are all a bunch of lunatics that have absolutely zero grounding in the Qu'ran or various hadiths is simply wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

You cannot interpret certain verses or ANY verse in the Qur'an at all because the Qur'an is one language. Are you seriously that ignorant? Even hadiths which are directly quoted from the prophet cannot be interpreted differently because as I said, it's one language. The translation for the Qur'an and Hadiths have to be exact without a single mistake because one mistake can have a ripple effect, that's the reason why ISIS, Al-Shabab, Al-Qaeda and all other terrorist/extremist groups exist. However there are lots of hadith which come from multiple sources and people who are very closely linked to the prophet either directly or indirectly, and that's part of why there are different sects. But when it comes to extremist groups and terrorist groups, there is no excuse at all. It's just a shame that a lot of people in the world will never be able to understand this because of fear, ignorance and to an extent, instincts I suppose.

Edited by MyName'sJeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smith John

Also, no-one actually defends Islamic radicalism. The idea of apologism for it actually existing is baffling enough given that, as far as I can tell, it doesn't. Not amongst westerners anyway.

If I may just quickly add to this: It's not so much the issue that no-one defends Islamic extremism, but rather the deafening silence from Western so-called progressives who purport to stand up for equality rights- rights of which radical Islamists would crush within a second given the chance- not speaking up against this backwards ideology who seem more preoccupied with standing in line with this self-moral-serving, political correctness bollocks that appears to have created criticism of aspects of Islam as some taboo subject in relation to how often the likes of Christianity is criticised and ridiculed in Western society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
make total destroy

Except most people--especially people like you--don't just criticize "aspects" of Islam. In fact, you're the type of person that just condemns Islam absolutely, as if all 1.3 billion Muslims all believe the same thing, all support terror, etc.. I don't think there's any problem with criticism of Islam, but the arguments are seldom very nuanced, or ignore the conditions that lead to the rise of Islamist terrorism to begin with. Until you can come up with something other than "DAE SHARIA LAW!?", maybe people will actually listen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smith John

Except most people--especially people like you--don't just criticize "aspects" of Islam. In fact, you're the type of person that just condemns Islam absolutely

Why ^this incessant troll hasn't been permanently relieved of his posting privileges yet, I'm still stumped to fathom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
make total destroy

Literally not even a troll post. I have never seen you offer a serious, constructive critique of different "aspects" of Islam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MyName'sJeff

 

Also, no-one actually defends Islamic radicalism. The idea of apologism for it actually existing is baffling enough given that, as far as I can tell, it doesn't. Not amongst westerners anyway.

If I may just quickly add to this: It's not so much the issue that no-one defends Islamic extremism, but rather the deafening silence from Western so-called progressives who purport to stand up for equality rights- rights of which radical Islamists would crush within a second given the chance- not speaking up against this backwards ideology who seem more preoccupied with standing in line with this self-moral-serving, political correctness bollocks that appears to have created criticism of aspects of Islam as some taboo subject in relation to how often the likes of Christianity is criticised and ridiculed in Western society.

 

Backwards ideology? It's no more backwards than your anti-religious views, you can't even construst a cohesive argument towards Islam as to why you think it's backwards and why you think radicals are the majority of Islam (lmao). If it wasn't for a Muslim a lifetime ago, you would have been as thick as a brick wall and your IQ would be incredibly low. But you've just done it yourself anyway. And if it wasn't for Islam, science would not have advanced as quick as it has.

Edited by MyName'sJeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smith John

l have never seen you offer a serious, constructive critique of different "aspects" of Islam.

But yet you just built accusations against me. Are you even sober, pal?

 

Listen, I'm no longer biting to your baiting sh*te that appears to fulfill your unproductive-to-society, internet-edgy, waste of oxygen existence. You already tried to hijack and derail that 'internet changing' or whatever it was thread with your usual sh*tty trolling. My address was to sivispacem, of whom usually formulates a polite and worthwhile response worth viewing, not some deadbeat with the mentality of a 12 year old who dreams of being some new addition to the revival of NWA.

 

At Myname'sjeff

 

a) I never said the radicals were the majority

 

b) I'm saying the radical ideology is backwards. Are you seriously arguing against this?

 

See folks? See how long it takes to get jumped on as soon as you question extremism of a certain religion that seems to be above such critique?...

Edited by John Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
make total destroy

 

But yet you just built accusations against me.

These aren't "accusations", you literally have no proper critique. It's not like I'm unfamiliar with your views.

 

And yes, I'm sober. Are you?

 

 

Listen, I'm no longer biting to your baiting sh*te that appears to fulfill your unproductive-to-society, internet-edgy, waste of oxygen existence. You already tried to hijack and derail that 'internet changing' or whatever it was thread with your usual sh*tty trolling. My address was to sivispacem, of whom usually formulates a polite and worthwhile response worth viewing, not some deadbeat with the mentality of a 12 year old who dreams of being some new addition to the revival of NWA.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWjeITmDmmo

 

You need to work on your attitude. It's not healthy to be so irrationally angry all the time. Listen to the Chicken Dance and chill m8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smith John

I'll just go ahead and refer the waste of oxygen troll to my edited post above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
make total destroy

I'll just go ahead and refer the waste of oxygen troll to my edited post above.

You need to work on your grammar as well. I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Edited by make total destroy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MyName'sJeff

 

l have never seen you offer a serious, constructive critique of different "aspects" of Islam.

But yet you just built accusations against me. Are you even sober, pal?

 

Listen, I'm no longer biting to your baiting sh*te that appears to fulfill your unproductive-to-society, internet-edgy, waste of oxygen existence. You already tried to hijack and derail that 'internet changing' or whatever it was thread with your usual sh*tty trolling. My address was to sivispacem, of whom usually formulates a polite and worthwhile response worth viewing, not some deadbeat with the mentality of a 12 year old who dreams of being some new addition to the revival of NWA.

 

At Myname'sjeff

 

a) I never said the radicals were the majority

 

b) I'm saying the radical ideology is backwards. Are you seriously arguing against this?

 

See folks? See how long it takes to get jumped on as soon as you question extremism of a certain religion that seems to be above such critique?...

 

By radical ideology, are you saying the whole religion itself or targeting specifically the radicals and their false belief? You didn't make it clear.

Edited by MyName'sJeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smith John

@MyName'sJeff

 

I know I already edited my post to give you a brief response, but I feel I should add more.

 

I'm unfortunately having to post on my phone which was/is already a pain in the arse to construct a contribution of which meets your apparent desired standards in Gen Chat, let alone dealing with baiting trolls like make total destruction with their insufferable, antagonising and exhausted inputs, but all my intention was was to put something to sivispacem, which I'd like to think I did in a reasonable fashion to express my observation of how the so-called progressives seem to be vocally silent in their condemnation of Islamic extremism- an ideology which completely conflicts with the principles these so-called progressives claim to champion.

 

Then I'm subsequently met with the deadbeat anarchist making groundless accusations against me and then you completely misrepresenting what I said. Can you blame me for concluding that there is this attitude of shutting down criticism against a certain radical form of a religion whilst embracing similar criticism against others? The way you and the deadbeat reacted just exemplifies my observation.

 

My critique is aimed towards policy and law implemented in countries like Iran, where sodomy is punishable by death. Or what about 'moderate' Islamic states like Saudi Arabia, where capital punishment is carried out in public via beheading? Where is the condemnation from those who always preach about how homosexuals are persecuted in the West because they weren't allowed to marry, never mind being hanged? Or from the anti-capital punishment activists arguing against the cruel and unusual punishment of lethal injection, never mind beheading and hanging? If you ask me, Western countries influenced by Christianity seem to be progressing much faster than that of its Middle Eastern Islamic counterparts, but yet so-called progressives seem to conveniently want to ignore this, as they don't want to upset people of different skin colour. Afterall, they sure do love focussing on skin colour above anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MyName'sJeff

The reason why those arab countries have punishment for sodomy specifically beheading/stoning is because they follow the hanabalites who teach that severe punishment is warranted. However that's wrong because nowhere in the Qur'an does it say to harm or kill anyone that participates in gay relations, it's only strictly prohibitied in the religion, period. And there is a hadith that tells you to kill the two gay partners for having a relationship, however because it didn't come from the prophet directly, and it's only the one unique quote, it's clearly unauthentic because there is no other hadith that tells you to do that and the prophet himself would have clarified this many times. The shafi school have a similar thought, except they say that 4 male witnesses are required to prove that a homosexual act has been performed before and that the Taliban army have executed 10 people, while Iran around 4000. While the main hanifite school teaches no physical punishement is warranted by following both the Qur'an and authentic hadith. Again, it's because of the different sects. But having different sects is a serious problem because it means that the group who don't follow the Qur'an and the authetic hadiths are not even doing anything right then, so to see Iran and Saudi doing this is sad as hell. At least Saudi is doing one thing right, by chopping the hands of thieves which there rules around anyway.

Edited by MyName'sJeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dingdongs

 

 

Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. Terrorists however have something to do with Islam, and that's only because they know f*ck all about the religion itself. There are certain quotes in the Qur'an which are heavily misinterpreted by them anyway, like completely wrong and mix it with their mental health, it's obviously going to be disastrous. When you see suicide bombers, you should INSTANTLY know that these guys are not Muslims at all, because the Qur'an says that suicide is completely wrong no matter what and you will never enter heaven if you do so, as well as committing murder completely condoned and classed haram. So why do the idiots do it anyway killing children, adults, destroying cars, buildings and themselves thinking they're going to heaven? Because they're all mental and misguided.

You can interpret certain verses of the Qu'ran as well as various hadiths to state that, when targeting enemies of Islam, if you martyr yourself and take somebody who is an enemy with you, then it is not prohibited suicide. Unfortunately it's more than people being mental. You have millions of people who agree with this ideology and it all comes right out of the Saudi state. There are different kinds of Quranic verses that can be interpreted in different ways. Remember that Islam itself has 2 main sects, and the majority sect has 4 different interpretations which are highly contrasting. This idea that extremists are all a bunch of lunatics that have absolutely zero grounding in the Qu'ran or various hadiths is simply wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

You cannot interpret certain verses or ANY verse in the Qur'an at all because the Qur'an is one language. Are you seriously that ignorant? Even hadiths which are directly quoted from the prophet cannot be interpreted differently because as I said, it's one language. The translation for the Qur'an and Hadiths have to be exact without a single mistake because one mistake can have a ripple effect, that's the reason why ISIS, Al-Shabab, Al-Qaeda and all other terrorist/extremist groups exist. However there are lots of hadith which come from multiple sources and people who are very closely linked to the prophet either directly or indirectly, and that's part of why there are different sects. But when it comes to extremist groups and terrorist groups, there is no excuse at all. It's just a shame that a lot of people in the world will never be able to understand this because of fear, ignorance and to an extent, instincts I suppose.

 

Have you ever read the Quran or a single hadith because you're the one espousing ignorance my friend. I know how the Quran is to be read. I know that each verse follows another and the one below it and all of them are to be taken in context. That said, I also know that extremist groups focus purely on Mukhamat and ignore the corresponding Mutashabihat.. i.e. adultery requiring 4 witnesses to have seen the act before it can be punished with stoning, the stoning being the Mukhamat and the 4 witnesses being the Mutashabihat. But again man, the Mukhamat is still there in writing for stoning a woman who commits adultery. Muslims view the Quran as Christians view Christ - the direct and unquestioned word of God. Your knowledge of Islam seems to be a bit shallow if you can't even fathom the fact that Sunni Islam itself has 4 widely divided interpretations on various teachings (and that doesn't include Salafism)... as a quick aside, one hadith from the Prophet himself taught that he punished an adulterous woman by making her carry the baby to term for 9 months, then murdering both of them. The idea that there's absolutely no violence within Islam at all is simple sugar coating.

Edited by Irviding

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.