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Fuzzknuckles

Gun Control

Recommended Posts

DareYokel

See, that's exactly the kind of shallow thinking that I've learned to expect from a pro-gun advocate. First of all, nobody is punishing law abiding citizens. What the f*ck are you talking about? How does Obama's announcement in any way prevent law abiding citizens from acquiring guns?

 

And of course illegal guns won't disappear over night. But what do you think will happen in the span of a decade or two? Criminals are caught with illegal guns all the time. When that happens that gun is no longer in the possession of that criminal and it's no longer in the streets posing a danger to others. Over time you reduce the amount of illegal guns in the streets by simply doing police work and with gun control you can prevent or at least reduce the influx of more illegal guns.

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sivispacem

 

The murder rate is decresing, yes, but overall it's still five times that anything else in the developed world. The firearm murder rate is twenty, thirty times that of other Western states. And the firearm mass-murder rate is escalating worryingly.

You can't compare the US to other countries.

Why not?

 

I'm not comparing directly. I'm comparing per 100,000 citizens. There's nothing exceptional about the US which explains why it has a murder rate five times that of the rest of the developed world...except for the ease of access to firearms.

 

Your comments on illegal firearms are laughably naïve. America has so many of them because firearms are so prolific and therefore police forces have neither the time nor the manpower to properly investigate what may or may not be lega- convictions only really come as part of unrelated investigations, people arrested for other crimes and the biggest illegal dealers. Plus the laws are an incoherent minefield anyway. That's an eminently fixable problem.

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Guest Member1626225

See, that's exactly the kind of shallow thinking that I've learned to expect from a pro-gun advocate. First of all, nobody is punishing law abiding citizens. What the f*ck are you talking about? How does Obama's announcement in any way prevent law abiding citizens from acquiring guns?

 

And of course illegal guns won't disappear over night. But what do you think will happen in the span of a decade or two? Criminals are caught with illegal guns all the time. When that happens that gun is no longer in the possession of that criminal and it's no longer in the streets posing a danger to others. Over time you reduce the amount of illegal guns in the streets by simply doing police work and with gun control you can prevent or at least reduce the influx of more illegal guns.

 

"Nobody is punishing law abiding citizens". Look at Europe, you fool! Law abiding citizens are being punished for the Paris attacks. They want to take away our semi-auto firearms, because we are obviously the terrorists. Obama tried to ban certain features and variations of firearms multiple times, but the bills got rejected by the Senate. Also, where the f*ck did I mention Obama in my previous message? Also, I've explained in previous messages that my debating skills are f*cking sh*t. Want to have a really good debate? Then ask Daz.

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sivispacem

"Nobody is punishing law abiding citizens". Look at Europe, you fool!

Firstly, we're not discussing Europe, we're discussing the measured recently announced in the US.

 

Secondly, the semi-automatic firearm ban is, at this point, little more than speculation. It's been vaguely mooted by some lawmakers but there doesn't seem to be any actual effort to get it enshrined into law. It's questionable whether the EU even has the authority to make law on the subject given that it appears to be outside of the remit of devolved powers.

 

Finally, I still don't understand how it constituted any sort of infringement on law abiding citizens. I don't agree with it in principle, but it's not really a massive travesty is it, let's be fair.

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Guest Member1626225

 

"Nobody is punishing law abiding citizens". Look at Europe, you fool!

Firstly, we're not discussing Europe, we're discussing the measured recently announced in the US.

 

Secondly, the semi-automatic firearm ban is, at this point, little more than speculation. It's been vaguely mooted by some lawmakers but there doesn't seem to be any actual effort to get it enshrined into law. It's questionable whether the EU even has the authority to make law on the subject given that it appears to be outside of the remit of devolved powers.

 

Finally, I still don't understand how it constituted any sort of infringement on law abiding citizens. I don't agree with it in principle, but it's not really a massive travesty is it, let's be fair.

 

 

The fact that they are trying to ruin our sport is enough for me to be concerned, and I'm not the only one. It also scares me to think about what they actually mean. The proposed bill only says "a ban on semi-automatic weapons" Do they mean ALL semi-auto firearms? If they do, it means that we would only be able to use revolvers, bolt-action and lever-action rifles and pump shotguns. Any modern semi-auto handgun, rifle or shotgun would be illegal to use. That would be devastating for the shooting sport. Just look at what happened in the UK when they banned handguns. An entire section of the shooting sport, gone. If a semi-auto ban would really happen, I'd move to Switzerland, the Czech Republic or America. Call me crazy, but firearms are important to me.

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sivispacem

The fact that they are trying to ruin our sport is enough for me to be concerned

You clearly read quite literally nothing I just posted.

 

The proposed bill only says "a ban on semi-automatic weapons"

Except no proposed bill actually exists, only a proposition for discussuon with the intent of maybe producing a bill at some point in the future but hey, this is the EU so who the f*ck knows when, if ever.

 

That would be devastating for the shooting sport.

I don't think banning semi-automatic centrefire rifles would be devastating for sports shooting, do you?

 

If a semi-auto ban would really happen, I'd move to...the Czech Republic

So, if the EU banned semi-automatic firearms, which they probably can't even if they wanted to, you'd move to an EU nation where the ban would also apply? Riiiight.

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Guest Member1626225

 

The fact that they are trying to ruin our sport is enough for me to be concerned

You clearly read quite literally nothing I just posted.

 

The proposed bill only says "a ban on semi-automatic weapons"

Except no proposed bill actually exists, only a proposition for discussuon with the intent of maybe producing a bill at some point in the future but hey, this is the EU so who the f*ck knows when, if ever.

 

That would be devastating for the shooting sport.

I don't think banning semi-automatic centrefire rifles would be devastating for sports shooting, do you?

 

If a semi-auto ban would really happen, I'd move to...the Czech Republic

So, if the EU banned semi-automatic firearms, which they probably can't even if they wanted to, you'd move to an EU nation where the ban would also apply? Riiiight.

 

 

You clearly didn't research the proposed plans, because it DOES exist. Also, banning an entire platform of firearms WOULD be devastating. It's not just centerfire rifles... The Czech Republic stated that they refuse to accept a semi-auto firearms ban, so I could go there.

Edited by Member1626225

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sivispacem

 

 

The fact that they are trying to ruin our sport is enough for me to be concerned

You clearly read quite literally nothing I just posted.

 

The proposed bill only says "a ban on semi-automatic weapons"

Except no proposed bill actually exists, only a proposition for discussuon with the intent of maybe producing a bill at some point in the future but hey, this is the EU so who the f*ck knows when, if ever.

 

That would be devastating for the shooting sport.

I don't think banning semi-automatic centrefire rifles would be devastating for sports shooting, do you?

 

If a semi-auto ban would really happen, I'd move to...the Czech Republic

So, if the EU banned semi-automatic firearms, which they probably can't even if they wanted to, you'd move to an EU nation where the ban would also apply? Riiiight.

 

You clearly didn't research

Says you. Tell me, if this proposal actually exists as a document rather than as a vague idea for future discussion, surely you'll be able to cite the exact wording of the clause calling for the banning of semi-automatic firearms.

 

And yet there's nothing I can see published on any EU website, just a few vague insinuations on shooting blogs and forums and few third-rate news sites.

 

In fact, the only verbatim quote I've been able to find, cited as coming from the European Commission, simply suggests (yes, suggests) "Stricter rules to ban certain semi-automatic firearms". That's it.

 

So yeah, next time you want to lecture me on a lack of research you should probably do some yourself.

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Guest Member1626225

 

 

 

The fact that they are trying to ruin our sport is enough for me to be concerned

You clearly read quite literally nothing I just posted.

 

The proposed bill only says "a ban on semi-automatic weapons"

Except no proposed bill actually exists, only a proposition for discussuon with the intent of maybe producing a bill at some point in the future but hey, this is the EU so who the f*ck knows when, if ever.

 

That would be devastating for the shooting sport.

I don't think banning semi-automatic centrefire rifles would be devastating for sports shooting, do you?

 

If a semi-auto ban would really happen, I'd move to...the Czech Republic

So, if the EU banned semi-automatic firearms, which they probably can't even if they wanted to, you'd move to an EU nation where the ban would also apply? Riiiight.

 

You clearly didn't research

Says you. Tell me, if this proposal actually exists as a document rather than as a vague idea for future discussion, surely you'll be able to cite the exact wording of the clause calling for the banning of semi-automatic firearms.

 

And yet there's nothing I can see published on any EU website, just a few vague insinuations on shooting blogs and forums and few third-rate news sites.

 

In fact, the only verbatim quote I've been able to find, cited as coming from the European Commission, simply suggests (yes, suggests) "Stricter rules to ban certain semi-automatic firearms". That's it.

 

So yeah, next time you want to lecture me on a lack of research you should probably do some yourself.

 

 

I will send you the proposed plans later, because I'm on PS4 right now, which doesn't allow me to copy links. Also, a wise man told me to I should stay calm when debating, so I need to take a break before I get pissed again. But I promise I'll send you that link later.

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feckyerlife

See, that's exactly the kind of shallow thinking that I've learned to expect from a pro-gun advocate. First of all, nobody is punishing law abiding citizens. What the f*ck are you talking about? How does Obama's announcement in any way prevent law abiding citizens from acquiring guns?

 

And of course illegal guns won't disappear over night. But what do you think will happen in the span of a decade or two? Criminals are caught with illegal guns all the time. When that happens that gun is no longer in the possession of that criminal and it's no longer in the streets posing a danger to others. Over time you reduce the amount of illegal guns in the streets by simply doing police work and with gun control you can prevent or at least reduce the influx of more illegal guns.

by that decade or 2 they will just be making their own guns like the CNJG or Filipino militants

 

His measures to me are good and bad. no one can count how many guns were sold pre 01/05/16 (probably close to billion) those guns will still be traded/sold privately with out the feds knowledge or with out the seller needing to get an FFL. those are the guns i assume you are talking about. I think it will take more than a decade or 2. plus a lot of criminals steal there guns. there was big home invasion team from NJ that was operating here in VA that were stealing guns and other property from rich neighborhoods here, then selling them in NJ/NY.

 

the thing i worry about with his measure is mental illness. are people going to be more inclined not to go get help since they will not want to lose their gun rights? which obviously will create a big problem.

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Tampa

It would help if we could keep our guns out of the hands that would use them to do harm. I would have no problem subjecting to a background check if it means I could keep my guns.

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El Dildo

expanded background checks are a start but it doesn't truly address the issue of Cowboy Vigilantism and Street Justice that pervades our sick and twisted American culture...

 

background checks only work when someone's on the naughty list.

there are plenty of people who buy their first (and last) gun after they've already become a danger. but you can't exactly lock someone up or deny them their purchase before they've committed any crime.

 

the best background checks on Earth won't stop the next massacre.

the issue is much more culture than anything; unique American culture.

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ShadowPerson

I still can understand the american gun culture and the serious oppossition againts a "gun control"

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DareYokel

I still can understand the american gun culture and the serious oppossition againts a "gun control"

The serious opposition comes from corrupt politicians in NRA's pockets. The vast majority of Americans support gun control.

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Saggy

 

 

The murder rate is decresing, yes, but overall it's still five times that anything else in the developed world. The firearm murder rate is twenty, thirty times that of other Western states. And the firearm mass-murder rate is escalating worryingly.

You can't compare the US to other countries.

 

Why not?

I'm not comparing directly. I'm comparing per 100,000 citizens. There's nothing exceptional about the US which explains why it has a murder rate five times that of the rest of the developed world...except for the ease of access to firearms.

Your comments on illegal firearms are laughably naïve. America has so many of them because firearms are so prolific and therefore police forces have neither the time nor the manpower to properly investigate what may or may not be lega- convictions only really come as part of unrelated investigations, people arrested for other crimes and the biggest illegal dealers. Plus the laws are an incoherent minefield anyway. That's an eminently fixable problem.

I am always seeing this loosely defined qualifier of "developed" being thrown in here.

 

Is Mexico not developed? Honduras? Brazil? Russia?

 

Hell a good portion of South and Central American countries have way higher per capita homicide rate than the US, you're telling me none of them are "developed"?

 

I mean look at this Wiki list that shows the highest rates of homicide per region of the US...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#United_States

 

Notice number 2?

 

But yeah let's keep pretending South and Central America just don't count for whatever reason.

 

 

Not that I disagree with the principle of what you're saying, but pointing our homicide rate as being the highest in the world involves a lot of cherry picking.

 

Edit

 

Also it's the vilification of the mentally ill thst worries me the most in this argument. The pro gun side wants to pretend that it's a mental health issue and frame the mentally ill as inherently more disposed to violence, despite evidence that they're far more likely to be the victim of violence than the perpetrators. What annoys me the most however is they so seldom see themselves as qualifying as mentally ill, even though 60 million Americans are, and who knows how many who have never been diagnosed. They basically try to throw the mentally ill under the bus to shift focus from the real problem, all the while they don't realize how doing so could me more effective at removing their rights than anything the pro gun control side is attempting. They are proposing their gun rights be up to the whim of a psychiatrist and a 90 minute evaluation,and worse (as someone else mentioned), it will make people that much more reluctant to seek treatment.

Edited by SagaciousKJB

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sivispacem

I simply don't buy attempts to draw correlation with places like Honduras and Mexico because general crime rates in the US are roughly similar to those in Western Europe, and they aren't in the other examples.

 

The "developed" world is a bit of a subjective term but to make it more specific I'm talking EU, North American, Australia and New Zealand and certain Asian states like Japan, South Korea and Singapore. Basically, anything in the top 30-50 states by Human Development Index ranking.

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Shyabang Shyabang

Singapore, South Korea and Japan are really safe countries, especially Singapore. And there's no gun crime in Singapore and South Korea. Japan has very little, too.

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Tchuck

 

 

 

The murder rate is decresing, yes, but overall it's still five times that anything else in the developed world. The firearm murder rate is twenty, thirty times that of other Western states. And the firearm mass-murder rate is escalating worryingly.

You can't compare the US to other countries.

Why not?

I'm not comparing directly. I'm comparing per 100,000 citizens. There's nothing exceptional about the US which explains why it has a murder rate five times that of the rest of the developed world...except for the ease of access to firearms.

Your comments on illegal firearms are laughably naïve. America has so many of them because firearms are so prolific and therefore police forces have neither the time nor the manpower to properly investigate what may or may not be lega- convictions only really come as part of unrelated investigations, people arrested for other crimes and the biggest illegal dealers. Plus the laws are an incoherent minefield anyway. That's an eminently fixable problem.

I am always seeing this loosely defined qualifier of "developed" being thrown in here.

 

Is Mexico not developed? Honduras? Brazil? Russia?

 

Hell a good portion of South and Central American countries have way higher per capita homicide rate than the US, you're telling me none of them are "developed"?

 

Yes, they aren't developed. A definition:

 

 

A developed country, industrialized country, or "more economically developed country" (MEDC), is a sovereign state that has a highly developed economy and advanced technological infrastructure relative to other less industrialized nations.

 

No country in South or Central America has a highly developed economy and advanced technological infrastructure to rival European, certain Asian, US + Canada. None of them. Brazil is rich in exporting things to other countries, but its internal industry is failing hard, and its economy is always in shambles whenever there's a slight crisis, and it doesn't produce anything to a world standard. Ergo for every other South American nation.

 

So yeah, they aren't developed. Can't compare crime rates.

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Saggy

 

 

 

 

The murder rate is decresing, yes, but overall it's still five times that anything else in the developed world. The firearm murder rate is twenty, thirty times that of other Western states. And the firearm mass-murder rate is escalating worryingly.

 

You can't compare the US to other countries.

Why not?

I'm not comparing directly. I'm comparing per 100,000 citizens. There's nothing exceptional about the US which explains why it has a murder rate five times that of the rest of the developed world...except for the ease of access to firearms.

Your comments on illegal firearms are laughably naïve. America has so many of them because firearms are so prolific and therefore police forces have neither the time nor the manpower to properly investigate what may or may not be lega- convictions only really come as part of unrelated investigations, people arrested for other crimes and the biggest illegal dealers. Plus the laws are an incoherent minefield anyway. That's an eminently fixable problem.

I am always seeing this loosely defined qualifier of "developed" being thrown in here.

Is Mexico not developed? Honduras? Brazil? Russia?

Hell a good portion of South and Central American countries have way higher per capita homicide rate than the US, you're telling me none of them are "developed"?

 

Yes, they aren't developed. A definition:

 

 

A developed country, industrialized country, or "more economically developed country" (MEDC), is a sovereign state that has a highly developed economy and advanced technological infrastructure relative to other less industrialized nations.

 

No country in South or Central America has a highly developed economy and advanced technological infrastructure to rival European, certain Asian, US + Canada. None of them. Brazil is rich in exporting things to other countries, but its internal industry is failing hard, and its economy is always in shambles whenever there's a slight crisis, and it doesn't produce anything to a world standard. Ergo for every other South American nation.

 

So yeah, they aren't developed. Can't compare crime rates.

Fair enough, I always got the sense that people were implying these countries were basically primitive. I think it's more telling that the only societies which come close to our rate of violence suffer such economic and societal decline. On the other hand, I think many in America are actually convinced we're going through our own decline...

 

I think that actually invites the argument that perhaps it's more symptomatic of our ailing society than an abundance of guns, especially when greeted with comparisons from other countries with high rates of firearms ownership, but low levels of violence. It's hard to tell though because virtually every other country employs strict control measures.

 

It's kind of like Murphys law though... If the economy does go bad and there is a plethora of guns around and no restrictions, the cause isn't really as significant as the effect. If it can go wrong it will, so if people can easily get their hands on guns to kill people then they will. All thst needs to happen is for society to become messed up enough that people start running amok, and it turns into people killing people, with guns just making it super efficient.

 

I use to be one of those people who liked to point out other ways people will kill each other, but guns are just the pinnacle of effectiveness in that arena. Look at mass stabbings, they end up with relatively few if any fatalities. The same can be compared to vehicular homicide, with several recent incidents where scores of people were injured but very few died. Meanwhile, a killer pulls a trigger, and it seems like at least half or more of those injured will die.

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sivispacem

The proportion of murders which take place using firearms is as telling as the outright numbers. In most of Europe, guns comprise 10-15% of all violent fatalities. in Canada, 30% In the US, it's what, 80%? The non-firearm murder rate in the US is about the same as the total murder rate elsewhere.

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GTA_stu

Something I find interesting when it comes to U.S. gun crime is that for most of the country it's really not that much worse than Europe. It's a very small minority of communities, which suffer from a lot of strife and gang violence, that inflate the whole country's statistics. You have exceptional outlying communities in the U.S. which have similar murder rates to places like Honduras, which make the whole country look a lot worse than it actually is. But if you live in a nice neighbourhood or even just an average neighbourhood you're really not that much more at risk of gun homicide than someone from an average or nice neighbourhood in Germany, France or Switzerland. It's the USA's unique gang culture (compared to other advanced countries) that elevates it's gun crime, although the prevalence of guns obviously does contribute to that.

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sivispacem

Yeah, the same is true of other nations though. A handful of postcodes in four or so cities comprise about 30% of all murders in the UK. The areas of Europe with the lowest crime rates typically still have average crime rates below that of the lowest US states.

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AlienTwo

I live in one of those nice communities not often troubled by the plague of gang violence, and yet my state has been home to 3 of the most famous mass shootings in the world; the Nathan Dunlap Chucky Cheese massacre, the Columbine Massacre and the Century 16 theater shooting. That's the trouble, with the prevalence of weapons out and about in society it makes these terrible incidents that take place outside the normal environment so bloody and brutal.

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KyleKeeling

Whenever I hear about a debate of gun control, There's always that special snowflake that argues that guns kill people or we need to ban guns or restrict the flow of guns.

 

I have yet to see a gun sprout legs and cause fatalities.

 

If you want to decrease gun violence, you obviously need to put more funding in mental heath programs and make sure people who have a history of violence apparent in their background check have no chance of having access to a firearm.

 

The people who deserve to have a firearm are mentally capable, well-educated adults who can determine right from wrong and know when to use deadly force.

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sivispacem

Whenever I hear about a debate of gun control, There's always that special snowflake that argues that guns kill people or we need to ban guns or restrict the flow of guns.

 

I have yet to see a gun sprout legs and cause fatalities.

Well this is just silly. I don't think anyone is claiming that firearms are sentient, but its difficult to dispute the statistics- the US murder rate is several orders of magnitude higher than elsewhere in the world and firearm related deaths comprise a sizeable majority of it.

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Tchuck

If you want to decrease gun violence, you obviously need to put more funding in mental heath programs and make sure people who have a history of violence apparent in their background check have no chance of having access to a firearm.

 

Well gee, if only the people had been discussing that sort of control on guns in this topic rather than making strawmen about banning guns.

 

If only people bothered to actually read the topic at hand. It's only 8 pages.

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KyleKeeling

 

Whenever I hear about a debate of gun control, There's always that special snowflake that argues that guns kill people or we need to ban guns or restrict the flow of guns.

 

I have yet to see a gun sprout legs and cause fatalities.

Well this is just silly. I don't think anyone is claiming that firearms are sentient, but its difficult to dispute the statistics- the US murder rate is several orders of magnitude higher than elsewhere in the world and firearm related deaths comprise a sizeable majority of it.

 

 

I'm talking about the the people who think that guns are the problem when in fact it's the certain people behind the guns that are the problem. You'd be surprised how many people think if we ban guns, the problem would be solved.

 

I don't know if you remember, but there was a CNN show called "Piers Morgan Live" years ago and there was an episode about 2-3 years ago where there was a "debate" between Piers Morgan and Alex Jones about gun control.

 

 

If you want to decrease gun violence, you obviously need to put more funding in mental heath programs and make sure people who have a history of violence apparent in their background check have no chance of having access to a firearm.

 

Well gee, if only the people had been discussing that sort of control on guns in this topic rather than making strawmen about banning guns.

 

If only people bothered to actually read the topic at hand. It's only 8 pages.

 

 

 

Sarcasm?

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sivispacem

I'm talking about the the people who think that guns are the problem

I know what you're talking about, but guns are part of the problem. Ease of access to firearms is the direct cause of large numbers of emotionally-driven murders; snap judgements enabled by access to firearms. As I've already noted, the astonishingly disproportionate number of firearm murders in the US is fairly telling.

 

when in fact it's the certain people behind the guns that are the problem.

That's a bit simplistic. As I've already suggested, the majority of murders aren't conducted by hardened violent criminals, but by people killing their spouses and the like. These are murders enabled by ease of access to firearms.

 

Alex Jones is an utter pillock. The last person I'd want discussing the merits of firearm control is a far-right militia wingnut and conspiracy theorist.

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Saggy

 

I'm talking about the the people who think that guns are the problem

I know what you're talking about, but guns are part of the problem. Ease of access to firearms is the direct cause of large numbers of emotionally-driven murders; snap judgements enabled by access to firearms. As I've already noted, the astonishingly disproportionate number of firearm murders in the US is fairly telling.

when in fact it's the certain people behind the guns that are the problem.

That's a bit simplistic. As I've already suggested, the majority of murders aren't conducted by hardened violent criminals, but by people killing their spouses and the like. These are murders enabled by ease of access to firearms.

Alex Jones is an utter pillock. The last person I'd want discussing the merits of firearm control is a far-right militia wingnut and conspiracy theorist.

No no obviously the problem is with the mentally ill. Despite the fact that they ate far more likely to be victims of violence than the perpetrators of it, and that there are almost 60 million "mentally ill" in the US, it's clear the mentally ill who are responsible for this. After all why would anyone shoot anyone unless they were crazy.

 

Maybe we should just round them all up and put them in special communities aside from our own..... That would never go wrong.

 

Or maybe we could make restrictions that in order to get a gun a person must demonstrate they're mentally competent.

 

Actually what night work faster is if we just screened potential customers, using universal system that is updated your law enforcement and mental health professionals alike...

 

Ever think of any of those options Kyle? Or are you just shifting the blame.

Edited by SagaciousKJB

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KyleKeeling

 

I know what you're talking about, but guns are part of the problem. Ease of access to firearms is the direct cause of large numbers of emotionally-driven murders; snap judgements enabled by access to firearms. As I've already noted, the astonishingly disproportionate number of firearm murders in the US is fairly telling.

 

 

Maybe I'm not being more descriptive of my argument. Yes, I do understand that the issue surrounding gun control particularly in America are issues like the gun-show loophole, the issue of illegal gun sales, the lack of gun safety education, and the poisonous gang culture propaganda. And yes, there's no arguing the statistics when comes to gun violence in America vs. gun violence outside of America. But my point is, if it comes down to the blame game between who's at fault, the gun or the person, It's gonna be the person. I'm not disagreeing with the gun control issue being both the issue of the relaxed access of firearms and the wrong person behind the firearm, I'm just pointing out the culprit while not disregarding the crime.

 

 

That's a bit simplistic. As I've already suggested, the majority of murders aren't conducted by hardened violent criminals, but by people killing their spouses and the like. These are murders enabled by ease of access to firearms.

 

 

You must of misunderstood me. I didn't pinpoint who the "certain" people were behind the gun violence. It could be the hardened violent criminal, it could be the disgruntled employee, it could be the overly-jealous significant other, it could be anyone who can't determine right from wrong.

 

 

 

No no obviously the problem is with the mentally ill. Despite the fact that they ate far more likely to be victims of violence than the perpetrators of it, and that there are almost 60 million "mentally ill" in the US, it's clear the mentally ill who are responsible for this. After all why would anyone shoot anyone unless they were crazy.

 

Maybe we should just round them all up and put them in special communities aside from our own..... That would never go wrong.

 

Or maybe we could make restrictions that in order to get a gun a person must demonstrate they're mentally competent.

 

Actually what night work faster is if we just screened potential customers, using universal system that is updated your law enforcement and mental health professionals alike...

 

Ever think of any of those options Kyle? Or are you just shifting the blame.

 

 

Wow! Just....Wow! I'm flabbergasted for many reasons pertaining to your rebuttal. But I'm going to try and do my best to respond.

 

1. You seem to think that I was blaming gun violence on only the mentally unstable, when in fact I didn't even say "mentally ill" in my argument. I said "certain" people meaning not only just the mentally ill, but people who have a history of violence, children who have no knowledge of gun safety and are too young to determine right from wrong that unfortunately have easy access to a firearm, disgruntled employees, etc.

 

2. What you offered for solutions to decrease gun violence, was exactly what I was arguing for in the first place. Your implication that I was focusing on just punishing the individuals responsible and not coming up with a solution to make situations that result in gun violence (besides punishing the individual) not happen again makes me wonder if you even read my argument or if you just chastised me out of sheer ignorance.

 

3. I'm baffled where you got the idea that I was "shifting the blame" or maybe you can hopefully give evidence where I began to shift the blame.

 

I did find your ad hominem to quite lol-ful in the fact that not only did you end up putting words in my mouth, but that your whole argument was a complete misunderstanding

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