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Fuzzknuckles

Gun Control

Recommended Posts

Saggy

Well to be fair when people talk about America's gun control issue it is a little hard to listen to when mired in contempt and an unwillingness to entertain the notion of any society working with restrictions less stringent than their own.

 

The problem, as can be agreed on by moderates from both pro and antigun people is the ubiquity of firearms and the incredible lack of registration and regulatory rules.

 

It's easier to track and report vehicle ownership in the US. In many states there is less registration involved in owning a gun than a car. In virtually no state is there anything akin to a driver's license for gun owners, the closest thing being hunters education which consists of things like not climbing over a fence with a loaded gun or shooting at roadways.

 

In the US we love to stress how dangerous vehicles are, how lethal they can be. Police shootings are often justified because someone attempted to use their car as a weapon, and due to shear volume of traffic, operators of motor vehicles, vehicular traffic deaths amount to about 30k a year. That figure is pretty close to the amount of deaths caused by guns each year, including accidents and suicide.

 

Meanwhile there is no test, no age limit to when you can use a gun (ownership is different), no license to operate needed, etc. In some states registration is required, you might even have to take a class, but it amounts to a few hours. We don't let kids behind a wheel of a car until they are 15 and have a learners permit, yet we like to give guns to kids under ten and act as if it's not dangerous.

 

Meanwhile cars are seemingly not as lethal... The woman who bulldozed through a few dozen people at a Oklahoma state homecoming rally only killed 4. Then disappeared from the news...

Edited by SagaciousKJB

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Melchior

Let's be honest though, the reason the gun lobby and the right generally oppose even rational, unobtrusive gun control measures is because their frustrated that guns are being looked at neutrally and objectively rather than being venerated. they can't stomach the idea that gun violence is just like regular violence, like if Zimmerman killed that kid with an ashtray or a switchblade he wouldn't have been let off, but 'standing your ground' is apparently what guns are for.

 

And there's this stuff about people 'taking the guns' 'gun grabs' etc. like if someone proposed a society without cars you wouldn't say they were 'coming for your car' with menacing urgency. And I've seen people on the internet basically agreeing with rational gun control measures, but with the caveat that 'nobody is taking my guns!' Guns seem to be a hugely integral part of peoples' masculinity and identity as white Anglo-Americans and as Christians.

 

I mean I imagine that some Americans would find it hugely embarrassing to be separated from their guns. Like could you tell someone who carries a gun not to bring it into your house or would they consider that an insult? It's like how rich people won't pay higher taxes despite not spending even a fraction of their money anyway; they don't want to part with something that defines them.

Edited by Melchior

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Irviding

Let's be honest though, the reason the gun lobby and the right generally oppose even rational, unobtrusive gun control measures is because their frustrated that guns are being looked at neutrally and objectively rather than being venerated. they can't stomach the idea that gun violence is just like regular violence, like if Zimmerman killed that kid with an ashtray or a switchblade he wouldn't have been let off, but 'standing your ground' is apparently what guns are for.

 

And there's this stuff about people 'taking the guns' 'gun grabs' etc. like if someone proposed a society without cars you wouldn't say they were 'coming for your car' with menacing urgency. And I've seen people on the internet basically agreeing with rational gun control measures, but with the caveat that 'nobody is taking my guns!' Guns seem to be a hugely integral part of peoples' masculinity and identity as white Anglo-Americans and as Christians.

 

I mean I imagine that some Americans would find it hugely embarrassing to be separated from their guns. Like could you tell someone who carries a gun not to bring it into your house or would they consider that an insult? It's like how rich people won't pay higher taxes despite not spending even a fraction of their money anyway; they don't want to part with something that defines them.

The issue is all of these restrictions, other than the really extreme ones from far left politicians (not your far left Melchior, I get it for the 100th time), don't cause people to have to part from their guns at all.... like, really, not at all. All of these restrictions that Obama has put out really don't affect law abiding gun owners at all. Requiring a background check at a gun show and mandating that people have to present ID and not just pay with f*cking wads of 100s is really not a radical measure.

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Chamberman20

It's really simple and I'm sure you have all heard it before. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Just because insane people shoot up schools doesn’t mean we should ban guns. Certian drugs have been banned from the United States, but they still smuggle them in. What would make anyone think you can't do the same with guns? So therefore , I believe banning guns won't solve the problem.

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Tchuck

It's really simple and I'm sure you have all heard it before. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Just because insane people shoot up schools doesn’t mean we should ban guns. Certian drugs have been banned from the United States, but they still smuggle them in. What would make anyone think you can't do the same with guns? So therefore , I believe banning guns won't solve the problem.

 

Then why do you send soldiers with guns to war? Might as well send just the soldiers, without guns, since only people kill people!

 

Also, non sequitur since no-one is arguing about banning guns. We're talking about control, about restriction. When a person with a history of mental problems can waltz in and get a gun without too much effort, when a violent person can just pop into a walmart and get a gun without too many restrictions, then there's a problem.

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El Dildo

Chamberman hasn't even read the topic.

 

who is he replying to?

no one is talking about banning all firearms. liberals don't even talk about that. the only people you actually hear talking about banning all guns are the NRA and republican congressmen... when they're trying to get more cheap votes by scaring everybody into thinking that it's part of a liberal agenda :sigh:

Edited by El Diablo

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Chamberman20

 

It's really simple and I'm sure you have all heard it before. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Just because insane people shoot up schools doesn’t mean we should ban guns. Certian drugs have been banned from the United States, but they still smuggle them in. What would make anyone think you can't do the same with guns? So therefore , I believe banning guns won't solve the problem.

 

Then why do you send soldiers with guns to war? Might as well send just the soldiers, without guns, since only people kill people!

 

Also, non sequitur since no-one is arguing about banning guns. We're talking about control, about restriction. When a person with a history of mental problems can waltz in and get a gun without too much effort, when a violent person can just pop into a walmart and get a gun without too many restrictions, then there's a problem.

 

Look like I didn't review the first comment well.

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sivispacem

 

 

It's really simple and I'm sure you have all heard it before. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Just because insane people shoot up schools doesn’t mean we should ban guns. Certian drugs have been banned from the United States, but they still smuggle them in. What would make anyone think you can't do the same with guns? So therefore , I believe banning guns won't solve the problem.

Then why do you send soldiers with guns to war? Might as well send just the soldiers, without guns, since only people kill people!

 

Also, non sequitur since no-one is arguing about banning guns. We're talking about control, about restriction. When a person with a history of mental problems can waltz in and get a gun without too much effort, when a violent person can just pop into a walmart and get a gun without too many restrictions, then there's a problem.

 

Look like I didn't review the first comment well.

 

What about the remaining 6 pages of the thread? I guess you didn't read any of that either?

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Tampa

Let's be honest here. Say we make owning non-sporting weapons illegal. Do you really think that is going to stop criminals, who have no respect for laws or the justice system in general in the first place, from obtaining these weapons to do harm? It would also go against our Constitution, something non-US gun control advocates overlook most of the time. "The right to bear arms" is a pinnacle of American society, no matter what gun it may be.

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Tchuck

Let's be honest here. Say we make owning non-sporting weapons illegal. Do you really think that is going to stop criminals, who have no respect for laws or the justice system in general in the first place, from obtaining these weapons to do harm? It would also go against our Constitution, something non-US gun control advocates overlook most of the time. "The right to bear arms" is a pinnacle of American society, no matter what gun it may be.

 

Let's be honest here. You did not read the topic, did you? You just read the opening post, maybe, and posted this without even bothering to read the last page or so.

 

No-one is arguing for banning or making guns illegal. What we are arguing for is better regulations, better screening process. A woman has to go through a lot of hassle in order to get an abortion. Anyone can simply go into a walmart and pick up a gun. That's not right. Make the seller call up the relatives and friends of the buyer, letting them know he's planning on buying a gun, do a proper background check, make sure the person isn't intent on simply murdering people. Then you can buy whatever guy you want.

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Stephan90

Let's be honest here. Say we make owning non-sporting weapons illegal. Do you really think that is going to stop criminals, who have no respect for laws or the justice system in general in the first place, from obtaining these weapons to do harm? It would also go against our Constitution, something non-US gun control advocates overlook most of the time. "The right to bear arms" is a pinnacle of American society, no matter what gun it may be.

 

Constitutions can be legally changed, especially when they contain dangerous amendments.

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RageFaceMax

 

Let's be honest here. Say we make owning non-sporting weapons illegal. Do you really think that is going to stop criminals, who have no respect for laws or the justice system in general in the first place, from obtaining these weapons to do harm? It would also go against our Constitution, something non-US gun control advocates overlook most of the time. "The right to bear arms" is a pinnacle of American society, no matter what gun it may be.

 

Constitutions can be legally changed, especially when they contain dangerous amendments.

 

 

There's nothing dangerous about the right to bear arms. Shame a lot of my fellow Europeans have the anti-gun mentality. The EU actually wants to ban semi-auto firearms for civilians because of the Paris attacks. Did I miss something here? Since when are WE the terrorists? They should fight illegal arms trafficking, not limit the rights of civilians. Just my 2 cents, I'm sure people will think I'm batsh*t crazy.

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Tampa

 

Let's be honest here. Say we make owning non-sporting weapons illegal. Do you really think that is going to stop criminals, who have no respect for laws or the justice system in general in the first place, from obtaining these weapons to do harm? It would also go against our Constitution, something non-US gun control advocates overlook most of the time. "The right to bear arms" is a pinnacle of American society, no matter what gun it may be.

Let's be honest here. You did not read the topic, did you? You just read the opening post, maybe, and posted this without even bothering to read the last page or so.

 

No-one is arguing for banning or making guns illegal. What we are arguing for is better regulations, better screening process. A woman has to go through a lot of hassle in order to get an abortion. Anyone can simply go into a walmart and pick up a gun. That's not right. Make the seller call up the relatives and friends of the buyer, letting them know he's planning on buying a gun, do a proper background check, make sure the person isn't intent on simply murdering people. Then you can buy whatever guy you want.

I have no problem with that. Background checks would work beautifully; however, all the left-wing drones want guns outright banned. Good thing the Marines have said they refuse to follow orders against American citizens.

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sivispacem

all the left-wing drones want guns outright banned.

This is complete utter bollocks and I think you know that, given that there's basically no support for outright gun bans in any sector of US society.

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RageFaceMax

 

all the left-wing drones want guns outright banned.

This is complete utter bollocks and I think you know that, given that there's basically no support for outright gun bans in any sector of US society.

 

 

You'd be surprised...There are politicians who want to ban all firearms. Take Dianne Feinstein for example. That woman said she wants to ban ALL firearms, and she said it multiple times. Yet she used to have a concealed carry permit...

Edited by RageFaceMax

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sivispacem

That's one individual. Hardly representative of any sector of society.

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RageFaceMax

That's one individual. Hardly representative of any sector of society.

 

So? The sad thing is that politicians like that DO exist. And many people actually believe the stuff she's telling. ''Give them an inch and they'll take a mile''.

Edited by RageFaceMax

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sivispacem

And many people actually believe the stuff she's telling

Do they?

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RageFaceMax

 

And many people actually believe the stuff she's telling

Do they?

 

 

Oh yes, they do...

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sivispacem

 

 

And many people actually believe the stuff she's telling

Do they?

 

Oh yes, they do...

So you keep saying, but I'm not convinced. It's not a point of view you see perpetuated amongst American members of this forum, even the actual left-leaning (rather than "American" "left") ones. It's not a point of view perpetuated by the US media at all to any discernible degree, and nor does it appear in much public or private discourse on the subject.

 

I don't deny that individuals who hold stringently anti-firearm views do exist- doing so would be downright silly. I do, however, think that the presence of a so-called "anti-firearm" popular movement of any real size or scope in the US is basically a myth created and perpetuated by the American Right.

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RageFaceMax

 

 

 

And many people actually believe the stuff she's telling

Do they?

 

Oh yes, they do...

So you keep saying, but I'm not convinced. It's not a point of view you see perpetuated amongst American members of this forum, even the actual left-leaning (rather than "American" "left") ones. It's not a point of view perpetuated by the US media at all to any discernible degree, and nor does it appear in much public or private discourse on the subject.

 

I don't deny that individuals who hold stringently anti-firearm views do exist- doing so would be downright silly. I do, however, think that the presence of a so-called "anti-firearm" popular movement of any real size or scope in the US is basically a myth created and perpetuated by the American Right.

 

 

Believe what you want.

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Tchuck

 

 

 

 

And many people actually believe the stuff she's telling

Do they?

 

Oh yes, they do...

So you keep saying, but I'm not convinced. It's not a point of view you see perpetuated amongst American members of this forum, even the actual left-leaning (rather than "American" "left") ones. It's not a point of view perpetuated by the US media at all to any discernible degree, and nor does it appear in much public or private discourse on the subject.

 

I don't deny that individuals who hold stringently anti-firearm views do exist- doing so would be downright silly. I do, however, think that the presence of a so-called "anti-firearm" popular movement of any real size or scope in the US is basically a myth created and perpetuated by the American Right.

 

 

Believe what you want.

 

 

Sheeple, amirite?

 

In any case, can you back up any of what you have been saying? Cause we all struggle to find any evidence pointing to you being right.

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RageFaceMax

 

 

 

 

 

And many people actually believe the stuff she's telling

Do they?

 

Oh yes, they do...

So you keep saying, but I'm not convinced. It's not a point of view you see perpetuated amongst American members of this forum, even the actual left-leaning (rather than "American" "left") ones. It's not a point of view perpetuated by the US media at all to any discernible degree, and nor does it appear in much public or private discourse on the subject.

 

I don't deny that individuals who hold stringently anti-firearm views do exist- doing so would be downright silly. I do, however, think that the presence of a so-called "anti-firearm" popular movement of any real size or scope in the US is basically a myth created and perpetuated by the American Right.

 

 

Believe what you want.

 

 

Sheeple, amirite?

 

In any case, can you back up any of what you have been saying? Cause we all struggle to find any evidence pointing to you being right.

 

 

You want evidence for people supporting Feinstein's gun control? Then take a look at the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, written by Dianne Feinstein, approved by the US Congress and signed by Clinton. There was enough support for that to get passed.

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Bartleby

You want evidence for people supporting Feinstein's gun control? Then take a look at the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, written by Dianne Feinstein, approved by the US Congress and signed by Clinton. There was enough support for that to get passed.

This was not a ban on all firearms...it wasn't even a ban on all assault weapons, just assault weapons manufactured after the date the ban went into effect, and expired in 2004. Using this to illustrate your point that people support banning guns wholesale is about as flimsy as it gets. People can agree with a politician on one issue, and not on another, or with them on a particular part of an issue, but not all of it.

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RageFaceMax

 

You want evidence for people supporting Feinstein's gun control? Then take a look at the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, written by Dianne Feinstein, approved by the US Congress and signed by Clinton. There was enough support for that to get passed.

This was not a ban on all firearms...it wasn't even a ban on all assault weapons, just assault weapons manufactured after the date the ban went into effect, and expired in 2004. Using this to illustrate your point that people support banning guns wholesale is about as flimsy as it gets. People can agree with a politician on one issue, and not on another, or with them on a particular part of an issue, but not all of it.

 

 

He asked to prove that "insignificant" people like Feinstein could get mainstream attention and support. If you want to see a ban on firearms, then look at the UK handgun ban and the planned semi-auto firearm ban in Europe.

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Otter

I don't think you're picking up what he's putting down. Yes, there are groups that want to ban gun ownership. They are a very vocal minority and in no way reflect a body powerful enough to enact said ban. Otherwise, guns would be banned. So, uh, yay guns.

 

Obama's moves today are promising. Baby steps in the right direction.

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RageFaceMax

I don't think you're picking up what he's putting down. Yes, there are groups that want to ban gun ownership. They are a very vocal minority and in no way reflect a body powerful enough to enact said ban. Otherwise, guns would be banned. So, uh, yay guns.

 

Obama's moves today are promising. Baby steps in the right direction.

 

As long as Obama doesn't touch the firearms of my American friends, I'm fine. If he goes to far, we'll fight back.

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AlienTwo

 

I don't think you're picking up what he's putting down. Yes, there are groups that want to ban gun ownership. They are a very vocal minority and in no way reflect a body powerful enough to enact said ban. Otherwise, guns would be banned. So, uh, yay guns.

 

Obama's moves today are promising. Baby steps in the right direction.

 

As long as Obama doesn't touch the firearms of my American friends, I'm fine. If he goes to far, we'll fight back.

 

Like those idiots in Oregon? If the US government wants anyone, EVERYONE'S guns, they can take it. It's called having an army more powerful than any basement redneck arsenal conceived of.

 

Obama just made his speech, and low and behold, he isn't taking your guns. In fact, he's doing little to nothing, just like every little gun bill that does get passed in this fine nation of gun-nuts, this one is just the most pathetic small amount of lip-service to the liberals and gun-control supporters of the US.

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RageFaceMax

 

 

I don't think you're picking up what he's putting down. Yes, there are groups that want to ban gun ownership. They are a very vocal minority and in no way reflect a body powerful enough to enact said ban. Otherwise, guns would be banned. So, uh, yay guns.

 

Obama's moves today are promising. Baby steps in the right direction.

 

As long as Obama doesn't touch the firearms of my American friends, I'm fine. If he goes to far, we'll fight back.

 

Like those idiots in Oregon? If the US government wants anyone, EVERYONE'S guns, they can take it. It's called having an army more powerful than any basement redneck arsenal conceived of.

 

Obama just made his speech, and low and behold, he isn't taking your guns. In fact, he's doing little to nothing, just like every little gun bill that does get passed in this fine nation of gun-nuts, this one is just the most pathetic small amount of lip-service to the liberals and gun-control supporters of the US.

 

 

 

I think it's good he's keeping gun control minimal.

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AlienTwo

Because it's worked so well thus far? The path the US has been traveling is a bad path, it doesn't work and it's time to re-orient the direction of our "gun control" measures and get in step with the rest of the civilized world.

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