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Fuzzknuckles

Gun Control

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Hatin Since 87

🙄 Nope, you’re right. 100% correct. Can’t debate with that. You’re a strategist, a constitutional scholar, and a economist. You’re correct. 

 

I love how you don’t understand sh*t but puff your chest and claim everyone’s wrong, and anyone who disagrees with your warped thinking is a simpleton. 

 

Very intellectual of you. 🙄

 

And the number used for the per capita doesn’t mean sh*t. You’re completely misunderstanding the point and it’s so painfully obvious you don’t get it, but more frustrating to see you not understand and make claims like “no, you’re wrong”. Can’t fix stupid. 

Edited by Hatin Since 87

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sivispacem

The fact you are completely unable to explain yourself in such a way as to support your assertions, provide coherent rebuttals, or understand basic concepts presented to you just goes to demonstrate the fact you have nothing of intellectual value to contribute.

 

Repeating the mantra that I'm wrong ad nauseum does not make it so. I recommend you go ask a responsible adult such as s parent or guardian to explain it to you as I've clearly used too many syllables, or numbers that are too big, or something. 

 

Until such a time as you can last 5 minutes of gentle critique without throwing your toys out of the pram, it's best you avoid D&D.

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Hatin Since 87

Ironic you chose to use those words. I’d try explaining it to you, but you wouldn’t get it, and after trying repeatedly you’d just give the same bullsh*t line you’ve toted and say I’m wrong. Enjoy the self admiration and “superior” intellect, I’m sure someone of your societal status has a over abundance of wealth and a career for us mere “simpletons” to envy over. 

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sivispacem
6 hours ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

I’d try explaining it to you, but you wouldn’t get it

You've been given ample opportunity to do exactly that and haven't, so I can only assume it's because you're incapable. You certainly are when it comes to defending the rest of your patently ridiculous statements.

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Hatin Since 87

You continue to beat your chest as if you’ve proven something and you’re right, unfortunately your pride and self admiration won’t let you accept the flaws in your logic. Then you have the goon squad jump in, in an attempt to validate your illogical nonsense by force of numbers instead of factual points. 

 

If you can’t understand why using 100,000 people from a country with 100 cities would be different than using 100,000 people from a country with 5 cities there’s no hope for you, and I can’t help but question your intelligence, or maybe you are smart enough and just can’t accept being wrong. 

 

Also, why is there a need to only compare countries with similar GDP? Do countries with a lower GDP not matter? Does violence in those countries mean nothing? If you wanna look at statistics of violence amongst countries with guns and without guns, look at all countries, not only countries with similar GDP. If you’re going to only compare countries with a similar GDP, then I suggest taking it a step further and only comparing countries with the same amount of cities. 

 

Also, in a previous comment you said states with more gun control have significantly less homicides by gun... then in your debate with me you say arizona had 3.4 per 100,000 while California had 3.2..: If gun control worked wouldn’t that number be “significantly lower” as you said previously? 

 

Again, keep grasping for any straws you can. Trying to limit it to only countries with similar GDP is another desperate attempt to use only countries you want to use as a baseline for comparison. You might feel as if you’re winning, but resorting to name calling and insults is a sure sign you’re too dimwitted to muster up a concrete point to make. 

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sivispacem
2 hours ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

If you can’t understand why using 100,000 people from a country with 100 cities would be different than using 100,000 people from a country with 5 cities there’s no hope for you

If the same percentage of those 100,000 people lived in the 5 cities as the 100 cities, why would it differ? You either live in a city or you don't; it's a binary choice. If you can't grasp that, there's no hope for you.

 

2 hours ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Also, why is there a need to only compare countries with similar GDP? 

Because typically they're more comparable across a broad spectrum of other aspects. But broadly speaking, you aren't, and not have I suggested you should. Which you'd realise if you weren't an absolute ignoramus.

 

2 hours ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Also, in a previous comment you said states with more gun control have significantly less homicides by gun... 

Please cite where I said this.

 

2 hours ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Again, keep grasping for any straws

The irony of being accused of "grasping at straws" by possibly the least competent debater I've ever seen- worse than the f*ckwit who claimed that WTC7 had been destroyed by a suitcase nuke- is not lost on me.

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Hatin Since 87

Jesus you’re dense. 

 

Listen. I’ll break this down so my 12 year old can understand....

 

Cities have higher crime rates. A country with 100 cities would have a lot higher crime rate than a country with 5 cities. 

 

Now break those down into percentages, and adjust for per capita, the one with 100 cities will still show more. 

 

Lets use something totally different to help you try to grasp this. 

 

Say we are looking to compare total car accidents. Cities will have more accidents because population is higher in cities. Now let’s say we are comparing a country like USA, with over 100 cities, to a country like Afghanistan, very few cities and very few automobiles. 

 

Now, let’s break those down into what percentages of people live in those cities, now we have a equal percentage (for example purposes). Now we compare car accidents per capita. It shows America has more. Well, Americans must drive sh*tty compared to Afghanistan huh? Uh. No. There’s a ton of factors that haven’t been figured in. 

 

Again. You’re attempting to skew statistics by cherry picking which variables you wish to use. Skewing facts might be your game, but don’t strut around beating your chest like you’re intellectually superior. You just look like a tool doing so. 

On 6/13/2018 at 1:27 AM, sivispacem said:

What about all the other places in the US that have more stringent firearm control than the average but significantly lower levels of firearm violence? You must be able to see how ridiculous cherry picking like this is.

And here is where you said it. 

 

 

Also, what does GDP have to do with firearms or crime? Again, you’re trying to compare with countries you wish to compare to. Why not look at the entire globe. If your argument had any substance it wouldn’t be an issue to compare with every country and see who is the most violent... but you do not wish to do this because it shows America is 116th worldwide for violent crime. 

 

Keep playing smart, but you can’t write whatever words you want in a crossword puzzle just because it fits, then act like you’re somehow proving how smart you are by doing so. Just further proves your ignorance. 

Edited by Hatin Since 87

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sivispacem
1 hour ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Cities have higher crime rates. A country with 100 cities would have a lot higher crime rate than a country with 5 cities. 

Dear god, how could you possibly be so stupid?

 

 

 

 

Two countries have matching populations of 50 million.

 

Both countries have 50% of that population living in cities. So 25 million.

 

In 1 country they're split between 5 cities, each of 5m population.

 

In the other, the same 25m people are split between 100 cities of 250,000.

 

If you are 5 times more likely to be mudered in a city than in rural areas, then the murder rate between country 1 and country 2 would be identical.

 

 

 

 

If you disagree with the above, provide a comparable hypothetical example that uses actual numbers to demonstrate it. Because either you're hilariously incompetent, hilariously deluded, or s combination of the above, and descent into as hominem doesn't excuse either.

 

1 hour ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Now let’s say we are comparing a country like USA, with over 100 cities, to a country like Afghanistan, very few cities and very few automobiles. 

The fact you think this comparison is even remotely analogous really does demonstrate how hilariously delusional you are. 

 

1 hour ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

 And here is where you said it. 

That couldn't be further from what you're alleging I said if you tried.

 

1 hour ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Also, what does GDP have to do with firearms or crime? 

Globally, GDP per capita has the strongest inverse correlation with violent crime rates of any measurable statistic. The wealthier nations are per capita, the less crime they have.

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Hatin Since 87

See. You don’t wish to actually think about what’s being said. You’re stuck in your own illogical fallacy. I no longer feel a need to discuss with you. You’re mental, which explains your political views. 

 

Enjoy! :)

 

 

Oh, good job cherry picking btw. Noticed you didn’t reply to the comment where you claimed gun controlled areas have less gun crime than non controlled areas. Which you yourself proved to be false. 

 

Doubtful you ever admit you’re wrong tho. It’s a pride thing, you’re too stupid to admit you’re ignorant. 

 

 

Dont cry snowflake. You ain’t changing anything and won’t get my guns :) 

 

Enjoy being a victim. There’s multiple studies that prove you wrong. You just won’t apply logic and you can’t see past your nose. Have fun Libby :) 

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sivispacem
18 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

See. You don’t wish to actually think about what’s being said. 

If your point has validity, you'll be able to assemble a hypothetical scenario that numerically demonstrates it. If it doesn't, you can't. You refuse to, which means you can't. If you could, you would. Ergo, your claim has no value.

 

Let's not forget the fact you've entirely failed to respond to almost every counterpoint I've made so far; largely even failing to acknowledge them. The ones you have responded to, you've  either misunderstood or obviously misrepresented. Frankly, it's pathetic.

 

 

 

Cite one single peer review academic study that "proves me wrong".

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Hatin Since 87
22 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

If your point has validity, you'll be able to assemble a hypothetical scenario that numerically demonstrates it. If it doesn't, you can't. You refuse to, which means you can't. If you could, you would. Ergo, your claim has no value.

 

Let's not forget the fact you've entirely failed to respond to almost every counterpoint I've made so far; largely even failing to acknowledge them. The ones you have responded to, you've  either misunderstood or obviously misrepresented. Frankly, it's pathetic.

 

 

 

Cite one single peer review academic study that "proves me wrong".

Again. I’m done debating you. You proved yourself wrong with your whole “areas of the us with more stringent firearm control have significantly less firearm crime” and after stating “California has 3.2 murders per capita and Arizona has 3.4” 

 

Youll never admit you’re wrong. You’re a king in your own mind. Probably single and unemployed with that kind of attitude. 

 

Ever looked into defensive gun use statistics in the USA? Far far far higher than the 9,000 homicides by gun. But of course that doesn’t matter either. 

 

Now lets prove why what I’ve been saying is correct and you’re wrong, since you’ve made yourself look stupid long enough. You can’t accurately compare the USA and other countries, and when you do try account for variables that aren’t considered, it shows violent crime to be equal or greater than that of the USA. 

 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jun/24/blog-posting/social-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/

 

But I don’t expect you to actually accept anything proving your illogical mindset being wrong. 

 

You can cry on the internet. You can bitch and moan, kick and scream, but you won’t ever get our guns. Deal with it. 

 

 

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sivispacem
2 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Again. I’m done debating you. 

Because your unwilling and incapable, but too naïve and ignorant to know when you've lost. 

 

3 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

You proved yourself wrong 

Where? This is absolute fantasy.

 

5 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Ever looked into defensive gun use statistics in the USA? Far far far higher than the 9,000 homicides by gun. 

*Citation needed

5 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Now lets prove why what I’ve been saying is correct and you’re wrong, 

What, by saying "you can't draw comparisons with the US" then immediately trying to draw a comparison by picking an example...that actually proves my point?

 

Do you even know what is categorised as "violent crime" in the UK versus the US? I bet you can't even tell me what constitutes violent crime in your own country, such is your absolute ignorance.

 

9 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

You can cry on the internet. 

The f*ck are you even on about?

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Hatin Since 87

Are you f*cking illiterate? I even gave the example where you proved yourself wrong. Did you even read the article dipsh*t? You’ve been screaming about comparing with countries with similar GDP, yet the article I pasted shows why you can’t, and when you do use the same definitions for crimes, it’s higher than the USA or extremely close. 

 

Youre too stupid to actually learn. Just keep screaming you won, proving yourself wrong, and showing what a dimwit you are. 

 

And if guns = more violence, why from the early 90s til now has violent crime dropped in half, while the number of guns in America has almost doubled. The 90s were assault weapon bans, universal background checks, etc. Yet as gun control loosened, violent crime dropped. Strange. 

 

Now im gonna go to the gun range tomorrow in honor of you government shills. I’ll be sure to shoot a box of freedom seeds for you ;) 

 

 

Give this a read. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

 

List of sources you can use there also. 

 

But, I’m sure you’re smarter than them and they’re wrong also 🙄

Edited by Hatin Since 87

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sivispacem
4 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Are you f*cking illiterate? I even gave the example where you proved yourself wrong. 

Quote exactly what aorct if that article you think proves anything I've said wrong. Clue: none of it.

 

5 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Youre too stupid to actually learn. 

Just for fun, were going to playback new game. In your next post:

 

> Every sentence that doesn't remotely relate to anything I've said will get you banned for a day.

 

> Every unsubstantiated or unevidenced claim will get you banned for a day.

 

> Every ad hominem will get you banned for a day.

 

> Every misinterpretation of a point I've made or misrepresentation of my position will get you banned for a day.

 

Given you're arguing- badly- with what are largely imaginary positions, going on incoherent diatribes and throwing around insults whilst still failing to provide a simple numerical explanation of your apparent claims, I get the impression it's going to get pretty big.

 

10 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

And if guns = more violence,

Please point to where I claimed, suggested, insinuated or implied thus was my view.

 

11 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

why from the early 90s til now has violent crime dropped in half, while the number of guns in America has almost doubled. 

Confuse correlation with causation much?

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Hatin Since 87
2 hours ago, sivispacem said:

Dear god, how could you possibly be so stupid?

I guess you can only insult if you’re a mod? I guess it isn’t considered an abuse of power to ban those whom disagree? Even tho this remotely relates to something you said, I’m betting you’ll still ban me since my position is different than yours. 

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S.A.C.

I'm not one to usually jump in on these types of arguments but come on, trying to ban a guy over differing opinions is pretty low. Sure he insulted you a bit, but you did the same. Banning someone just because you get offended is childish.

Edited by S.A.C.

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Tchuck
22 minutes ago, S.A.C. said:

trying to ban a guy over differing opinions is pretty low.

He's not banning him over differing opinions; if he was, this thread would be filled with banned members.

 

He's banning the guy for utterly failing to adopt the basic D&D principles. Your buddy makes claims without any evidence, and refuses to acknowledge how things actually work in real life. The whole argument against using "per capita" rates is incredibly asinine, and contrary to how arguments and comparisons work in the civilized world. Ditto for the whole comparing America with Afghanistan, and deciding that using GDP and other indicators to compare nations is invalid. 

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sivispacem
5 hours ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

I guess it isn’t considered an abuse of power to ban those whom disagree?

It's certainly not an abuse of power to can someone for utterly refusing to abide by the rules of D&D, no.

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Hatin Since 87
11 hours ago, Tchuck said:

He's not banning him over differing opinions; if he was, this thread would be filled with banned members.

 

He's banning the guy for utterly failing to adopt the basic D&D principles. Your buddy makes claims without any evidence, and refuses to acknowledge how things actually work in real life. The whole argument against using "per capita" rates is incredibly asinine, and contrary to how arguments and comparisons work in the civilized world. Ditto for the whole comparing America with Afghanistan, and deciding that using GDP and other indicators to compare nations is invalid. 

I posted 2 links. I haven’t seen a single other person post a link to back up what they’re saying. The Afghanistan comparison was a way over exaggeration, to be used to show how asinine it is to make a comparison between countries that are vastly different. Much like the link I posted stated, you can’t accurately compare the USA and the U.K. let alone other countries. 

 

Everything that i discussed was related related to the topic being discussed, except the insults, which I was insulted first and numerous times after, so I responded in the same manner. 

 

Just because you guys guys may not agree with a different opinion, doesn’t mean it isn’t a valid point. To deny it as such only shows you’re set in your ways and have no willingness to broaden your perspective on the matter. 

 

It seems as if you would like an echo chamber of the same ideas here, so I will not return to this thread, as I see no point in continuing. 

 

Have a good one. 

Edited by Hatin Since 87

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sivispacem
36 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

I posted 2 links

One was a Wikipedia article, largely irrelevant to anything that I'd mentioned. And not exactly a glowing endorsement of the assertion you were trying to draw from it (IE that firearms are used in the prevention of crime far more frequently than they are in its execution).

The other rates as "false" the assertion you claim it supports, and goes into great detail about why direct comparisons between violent crime rates in countries are challenging because of the way statistics differ in their recording (which I already knew).

 

40 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

The Afghanistan comparison was a way over exaggeration, to be used to show how asinine it is to make a comparison between countries that are vastly different

What about countries that aren't "vastly different"? The entire crux of my point was that you can group countries by numerous metrics, or a combination of metrics, in order to define those that are similar. Pretending you can't meaningfully compare the US and Canada even though they're astonishingly similar, but you can legitimately compare the US to Honduras, which you describe as a "fine example" despite it being absolutely nothing alike- is, to use your word, asinine. 

 

For what it's worth, you can quite easily compare the US and UK in terms of crime rates- you just can't do it in the manner they show.

Direct comparison of murder rates, for instance, would be entirely reasonable because the definition of murder doesn't differ substantially between the UK and US. 

 

45 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

I was insulted first

Describing you debating ability as "frankly embarrassing" is hardly an insult; it's fact. I was genuinely embarrassed for you.

I'm even more embarrassed for you on re-reading; that you genuinely thought that "Per capita is skewed if the countries you are comparing has 100 major cities and the other has 5 major cities" even where the proportion of people living in those cities was the same is just flabbergasting.

 

51 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Just because you guys guys may not agree with a different opinion, doesn’t mean it isn’t a valid point.

Of course it doesn't. It's not being a valid point is entirely distinct from it being a difference of opinion.

The lack of validity is predicated on the fact it's fallacious, mathematically incoherent, apparently indefensible and exceptionally poorly explained by someone who has claimed they're "done with this thread" about four times now.

 

54 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

To deny it as such only shows you’re set in your ways

"I am a giant anthropomorphic glittery teapot. I have no evidence to support this, and there are numerous pictures of me that confirm I am in fact not a giant anthropomorphic glittery teapot, but my claiming I am one is still valid and to deny it only shows you're set in your way".

That is the level of logical reasoning applied to your posts.

 

Quite aside from the total lack of any statistical or empirical data to support your assertions, the fact you've made a myriad of totally incorrect assumptions about my views on firearm control and have actually therefore spent most of your time arguing with straw men is the one I find the most absurd. 

For instance, contrary to your suggestion, I have never asserted that more firearms equal higher violent crime rate. In fact, I've said repeatedly that there's no correlative link between firearm ownership and violent crime rates- but that America has a very specific and unique problem out of all developed-world countries with firearm violence, particularly murder. This is an artefact not of ownership rates but of accessibility, the lack of any mandatory training and licensing requirements, social and mental health issues, and a myriad of other factors. 

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Hatin Since 87

Again, you obviously don’t understand why a country with 100 cities and a country with 5 cities would have massive differences in crime rates, regardless what the population within those cities are. The Wikipedia link gives multiple sources, and links to those sources. I had a feeling no matter what evidence was produced it would simply be disregarded, while I have yet to see any counter-evidence produced. 

 

Im not continuing this conversation any further, as when debating it’s usually common for both parties to find a common ground to debate from, and when the other side is a mod who begins to threaten you with bans it becomes very clear there is no actual debate to be had. If it is a echo chamber you seek, it is a echo chamber you shall have friend. Have a good day. 

 

Also, I’m glad to see you agree you can’t just make up what you are, with your teapot example. I guess that answers any questions I had regarding your views of transgender people. 

 

Enjoy the rest of your day. 

Edited by Hatin Since 87

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sivispacem
5 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

Again, you obviously don’t understand why a country with 100 cities and a country with 5 cities would have massive differences in crime rates, regardless what the population within those cities are.

Regardless of how many times you insist this is the case, it is simply not mathematically correct. When I'm back home and not posting from my mobile I will gladly do example sums right here in the thread to make this clear and unequivocal.

 

8 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

The Wikipedia link gives multiple sources, and links to those sources. 

It also goes into great detail about how no-one can even agree on a recording methodology and highlights that these different methodologies produce figures that differ by a factor of up to 100.

 

I have no issue with the source or even the numbers. I take issue with your belief that they support your views.

 

I'm absolutely certain that armed US citizens have prevented crimes, and do on a regular basis. But a variety of studies that taken together conclude "somewhere between 50,00 and 4.7 million DGUs take place in the US" tells you nothing other than accurately measure DGUs is impossible.

 

25 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

I gIuess that answers any questions I had regarding your views of transgender people. 

I have literally no f*cking idea what you're talking about and, I suspect, not do you.

 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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