epoxi Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 -Incomprehensible complaining- Here's a crazy idea: Don't play Online? Problem solved. That does not solve the problem, the entire point of this topic is that single-player is being ruined by these changes: when the game takes 5 times as long to execute the same line of code because R* have hashed their native functions, that causes single-player to get frame rate dips and freezes for no good reason. I bought a decent computer just to experience GTA V to the full, but the jerkiness and poor quality of the game since the last update has rendered what used to be buttery smooth almost unplayable. Lc gta, NightmanCometh96, fefenc and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 -Incomprehensible complaining- Here's a crazy idea: Don't play Online? Problem solved. That does not solve the problem, the entire point of this topic is that single-player is being ruined by these changes: when the game takes 5 times as long to execute the same line of code because R* have hashed their native functions, that causes single-player to get frame rate dips and freezes for no good reason. I bought a decent computer just to experience GTA V to the full, but the jerkiness and poor quality of the game since the last update has rendered what used to be buttery smooth almost unplayable. Currently there is no evidence of this "anti cheat system" it could very well just be a particle bug, or something else causing performance issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lydianduck Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) It was actually the creator of LSPDFR who supposedly found about the anti-modding system causing bad performance. Read: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrandTheftAutoV_PC/comments/3d0zak/lspdfr_02_update_more_details_on_rockstars/ Edited July 13, 2015 by lydianduck epoxi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It was actually the creator of LSPDFR who supposedly found about the anti-cheat system causing bad performance. Read: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrandTheftAutoV_PC/comments/3d0zak/lspdfr_02_update_more_details_on_rockstars/ I know, Still that is no evidence for me, It could very well be someone looking for an explanation to postpone the 0.2 release. Or maybe the DEV's got performance problems because of something else, and thought it is junk code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lydianduck Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I don't think anyone reasonable would think they need to make up an excuse to postpone their own GTA mod, specially when you see the positive feedback on their forums, everyone telling him to take his time with the mod, etc I agree we can't be certain it's the cause I just thought it was relevant. Edited July 13, 2015 by lydianduck DEERxBanshee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIPΣR Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Oh...So that's the reason why I am getting a serious stutter problem since the latest patch. Screw you C* and their Online which will doom the series. 78 lil red express 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I don't think anyone reasonable would think they need to make up an excuse to postpone their own GTA mod, specially when you see the positive feedback on their forums, everyone telling him to take his time with the mod, etc I agree we can't be certain it's the cause I just thought it was relevant. Last time people trusted someone in the GTA Community and hated R* for it, it was NIllXModz, a scammer who all set people up and got their money lol. I am speaking from experience here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider-Vice Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It was actually the creator of LSPDFR who supposedly found about the anti-cheat system causing bad performance. Read: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrandTheftAutoV_PC/comments/3d0zak/lspdfr_02_update_more_details_on_rockstars/ I know, Still that is no evidence for me, It could very well be someone looking for an explanation to postpone the 0.2 release. Or maybe the DEV's got performance problems because of something else, and thought it is junk code. It's not an excuse, however. Here's the output of a script trying to call a native: http://pastebin.com/Gz7RYE61 It now takes over 2000 milliseconds to execute which is an atrocity and also affects Rockstar's own scripts. epoxi and Naroon 2 GTANet | Red Dead Network | black lives matter | stop Asian hate | trans lives = human lives the beginning is moments ago, the end is moments away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It was actually the creator of LSPDFR who supposedly found about the anti-cheat system causing bad performance. Read: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrandTheftAutoV_PC/comments/3d0zak/lspdfr_02_update_more_details_on_rockstars/ I know, Still that is no evidence for me, It could very well be someone looking for an explanation to postpone the 0.2 release. Or maybe the DEV's got performance problems because of something else, and thought it is junk code. It's not an excuse, however. Here's the output of a script trying to call a native: http://pastebin.com/Gz7RYE61 It now takes over 2000 milliseconds to execute which is an atrocity and also affects Rockstar's own scripts. Still no evidence of any junk code. It could very well just be an error which was cause unintentionaly. I somehow doubt anyone would implement this intentionaly, since it does not even stop the real modders/hackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dorado Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Set your graphics to the minimum possible and start shooting with a minigun. Then you'll have your evidence. fefenc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider-Vice Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You do realise this is not the first time Rockstar has tried to stop modding in stupid ways, they did the same with GTA IV, failed and gave up. But because this is GTA Online, they will do anything and everything to try to block mods, including adding an encryption layer, which makes total sense and does actually explain the lag (for example when visiting Ammunation - why? because it executes a script for the store to function, and that now takes longer to load). Rockstar isn't known to be competent or known to be able to develop smart things. So more than possible. RoachKiller_416, UltraGizmo64 and Naroon 3 GTANet | Red Dead Network | black lives matter | stop Asian hate | trans lives = human lives the beginning is moments ago, the end is moments away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You do realise this is not the first time Rockstar has tried to stop modding in stupid ways, they did the same with GTA IV, failed and gave up. But because this is GTA Online, they will do anything and everything to try to block mods, including adding an encryption layer, which makes total sense and does actually explain the lag (for example when visiting Ammunation - why? because it executes a script for the store to function, and that now takes longer to load). Rockstar isn't known to be competent or known to be able to develop smart things. So more than possible. Then again still speculation. If R* would want to stop modding they would have at least tested a mod menu, This "script junk" doesn't stop or lag any mod menus at all, which are what R* wants to stop. I am not denying they broke something in the latest Update on PC, but I highly doubt its intentional nor that it is Script related, since some people do not encounter these problems at all. humdinger13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider-Vice Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) The problem is Rockstar thinks they're smarter than us all. Come on every time an update is launched they try to change the natives around on purpose, and that doesn't need evidence, just look at the hundreds upon hundreds of pages on the ScriptHook topic of complaints every time a patch launches. This is all about Rockstar being stubborn, believe me. As I said, they aren't famous for good decisions. But we'll see what they do about this, anyway... Edited July 13, 2015 by Spider-Vice epoxi 1 GTANet | Red Dead Network | black lives matter | stop Asian hate | trans lives = human lives the beginning is moments ago, the end is moments away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The problem is Rockstar thinks they're smarter than us all. Come on every time an update is launched they try to change the natives around on purpose, and that doesn't need evidence, just look at the hundreds upon hundreds of pages on the ScriptHook topic of complaints every time a patch launches. This is all about Rockstar being stubborn, believe me. As I said, they aren't famous for good decisions. But we'll see what they do about this, anyway... Oh honestly I would be fine if they just block ALL MODS and Script Hook after all. Mods have done nothing but harm to R* and the User... But R* realy needs to try harder and smarter to stop people from modding... Nick930930 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillBellic Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It's pretty big news over at the LCPDFR Forums as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky_Sierra Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 NTA I haven't played Online in a while (because of the hackers) but don't you think the hackers probably already got around their new "security" measures? They did indeed. It wasn't even 24 hours after the update release and Alexander Blade already updated ScriptHook And not even an hour later, se7ensins created a bypass for the latest version. We used to have perfectly optimized GTA V on PC with modders Now it's terribly optimized PC version with modders, again epoxi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swebarb Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 To stop modders and hackers the game performance shouldnt get worse otherwise they have done something very wrong... nobody wants to play on crap performance suddenly because they think its cool to add sh*t code to stop hackers.. i doubt they will stop sh*t.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick930930 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I have to agree with XenoxX. As cool as mods can be for games, I'd much rather mods be permanently disabled for Grand Theft Auto V. Especially the steam version. Maybe make it so you can download a separate version of the game to play with mods? But the official up to date version of the game should not be modifiable to keep hackers offline and the online space fair and fun. I don't care if some stupid kids are bored with the base game and its features and want to turn the gravity off to enjoy themselves.. why? Because now it's getting to the point where Rockstar is combating them and fu**ing up my vanilla experience that I paid for. humdinger13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epoxi Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I don't care if some stupid kids are bored with the base game and its features and want to turn the gravity off to enjoy themselves.. why? Because now it's getting to the point where Rockstar is combating them and fu**ing up my vanilla experience that I paid for. I place the blame squarely on Rockstar, anyone developing any kind of service connected to the internet should expect abuse. The way GTA:O is designed is completely exploitable, it has a P2P infrastructure and almost no checks and balances against monetary activity other than a regular 'sync with the cloud.' Every game, website and even bedroom-hosted unofficial gaming server knows exploiters are just a fact of life and implements efficient defences against them. Not to mention R* knows fully well every GTA in existence has been modified to the hilt and it is the single greatest passion of the game's PC audience. On top of this, GTA:O is intrinsically tangled with the single-player game to the point this native obfuscation interferes with people who don't even play online. Edited July 13, 2015 by epoxi humdinger13, Spider-Vice, RoachKiller_416 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dorado Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 They aren't combating nothing. You guys gotta understand, nothing will stop modders, hackers, piracy and whatnot. Nothing. Hell, they should be grateful to modders, GTA SA is a 10 year old game still played today thanks to mods, new players are buying from steam just to play with mods, they are actually making profit out of free mods. They add a protection layer, bypass, whatever you want to call it to the game natives. Problem is, even if the game call those natives genuinely, the bypass is there. I've done a lot of stupid things in my life, and I'm no programmer or nothing, but this was a VERY dumb move. There has to be a better way to preserve the integrity of their beloved sharks cards. epoxi, Spider-Vice, RoachKiller_416 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I don't care if some stupid kids are bored with the base game and its features and want to turn the gravity off to enjoy themselves.. why? Because now it's getting to the point where Rockstar is combating them and fu**ing up my vanilla experience that I paid for. I place the blame squarely on Rockstar, anyone developing any kind of service connected to the internet should expect abuse. The way GTA:O is designed is completely exploitable, it has a P2P infrastructure and almost no checks and balances against monetary activity other than a regular 'sync with the cloud.' Every game, website and even bedroom-hosted unofficial gaming server knows exploiters are just a fact of life and implements efficient defences against them. Not to mention R* knows fully well every GTA in existence has been modified to the hilt and it is the single greatest passion of the game's PC audience. On top of this, GTA:O is intrinsically tangled with the single-player game to the point this native obfuscation interferes with people who don't even play online. The PC version wasnt planned by R* so this explains why its P2P. And still R* is not 100 % guilty... You cannot protect a game fully from modders, especially not if the base game was designed for consoles and is P2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epoxi Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) The PC version wasnt planned by R* so this explains why its P2P. And still R* is not 100 % guilty... You cannot protect a game fully from modders, especially not if the base game was designed for consoles and is P2P Firstly, the PC version was planned by R* since the beginning, as evidenced by parameters that existed even in the PS3/XBOX360 console versions of the game's code. Secondly, the P2P infrastructure has existed since September 2013 and was heavily exploited by hackers on console too: I had a 12 digit bank balance on PS3 forced into my wallet by hackers. Even the most basic hacking measures would flag up a $1bn+ transaction as illegitimate, but these measures simply did not exist. Finally, you are right: you cannot protect the game from modders, it is inevitable. But what you can do is direct modding efforts away from online. Most of the illegitimate hackers are built on knowledge bases built by innocent modders who have no intention of cheating online but the structure of the game allows these natives to be abused very easily in GTA:O. If there were more server-side measures to stop hacking, people would be scared of being banned by using exploits online and there would be no need to tamper with the client, interfering with everyone's experience. Edited July 13, 2015 by epoxi Andreas, RoachKiller_416 and Naroon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The PC version wasnt planned by R* so this explains why its P2P. And still R* is not 100 % guilty... You cannot protect a game fully from modders, especially not if the base game was designed for consoles and is P2P Firstly, the PC version was planned by R* since the beginning, as evidenced by parameters that existed even in the PS3/XBOX360 console versions of the game's code. Secondly, the P2P infrastructure has existed since September 2013 and was heavily exploited by hackers on console too: I had a 12 digit bank balance on PS3 forced into my wallet by hackers. Even the most basic hacking measures would flag up a $1bn+ transaction as illegitimate, but these measures simply did not exist. Finally, you are right: you cannot protect the game from modders, it is inevitable. But what you can do is direct modding efforts away from online. Most of the illegitimate hackers are built on knowledge bases built by innocent modders who have no intention of cheating online but the structure of the game allows these natives to be abused very easily in GTA:O. If there were more server-side measures to stop hacking, people would be scared of being banned by using exploits online and there would be no need to tamper with the client, interfering with everyone's experience. Back then in 2013 things werent so crystal clear as they turned out... Also no the PC version was not planned, it was DEVELOPED with but not planned. People had to do a Petition so R* actualy announced it. Also having both inside one game was made so the switch between Online and Singleplayer was seemless. As I said without a PC version planned, there is no reason to care for modders, besides that R* never realy cared for modders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epoxi Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) lydianduck gave you anecdotal evidence of native obfuscation slowing the game, you say "that is no evidence for me." spider-vice gave you an explicit stress test source with timings showing a slowing factor of 5 slow-down and you said "Still no evidence of any junk code." You admit the PC version was developed but claim it "was not planned" as if a company with a market capitalisation of $2.2bn blindly undertakes unplanned development after repeated delays to a major release, not to mention a history of every GTA before it being released on PC. You say R* never 'realy' cared for modders, yet in every Renderware version of the game there has been explicit documentation in every .cfg and .ide file. Are you actually going to contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way, or are you just going to sit here and refute everything anyone says? Edited July 13, 2015 by epoxi ThunderBanana, DEERxBanshee, Cutter De Blanc and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 lydianduck gave you anecdotal evidence of native obfuscation slowing the game, you say "that is no evidence for me." spider-vice gave you an explicit stress test source with timings showing a slowing factor of 5 slow-down and you said "Still no evidence of any junk code." You admit the PC version was developed but claim it "was not planned" as if a company with a market capitalisation of $2.2bn blindly undertakes unplanned development after repeated delays to a major release, not to mention a history of every GTA before it being released on PC. You say R* never 'realy' cared for modders, yet in every Renderware version of the game there has been explicit documentation in every .cfg and .ide file. Does anything you ever say actually make sense? I said there is no evidence this was made INTENTIONALY, It could be scripts are slowed down and calling functions is slower, but there is no evidence this was made intentionaly, it seems like an error somewhere, or a wrong implementation of something. And if you look at history, no R* never cared for modders, the natives are encrypted and there is no documentation about them whatsoever... also R* never cared for Modders in IV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epoxi Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) in every Renderware version of the game there has been explicit documentation in every .cfg and .ide file. And if you look at history, no R* never cared for modders Do you even read? Edited July 13, 2015 by epoxi Naroon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 in every Renderware version of the game there has been explicit documentation in every .cfg and .ide file. And if you look at history, no R* never cared for modders Do you even read? There is no explicit documentation of anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epoxi Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) There is no explicit documentation of anything... \GTA San Andreas\data\handling.cfg \GTA San Andreas\data\vehicles.ide Please, just leave. Edited July 13, 2015 by epoxi Cutter De Blanc, Naroon and theNGclan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverRST Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) in every Renderware version of the game there has been explicit documentation in every .cfg and .ide file. And if you look at history, no R* never cared for modders Do you even read? There is no explicit documentation of anything... Of course he didn't read. He still have his head stuck in R* CEO's ass. "Still no evidence, still again it's the scripts slowing down the performance, still no evidence... I can't see my d*ck in my pants so still no evidence I am a girl" It's obvious R* is trying to cripple performance after each update just to block SP mods. You know what, I totally regret it buying a legit copy of GTAV PC. The story mode also really f*cking sucks and f*ck that intensive focusing on GTA Online. GTA never has been online and it shoudn't be IMHO. But you know how big companies are, they will never listen to their customers. Edited July 13, 2015 by SilverRST Naroon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoxX Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 in every Renderware version of the game there has been explicit documentation in every .cfg and .ide file. And if you look at history, no R* never cared for modders Do you even read? There is no explicit documentation of anything... Of course he didn't read. He still have his head stuck in R* CEO's ass. "Still no evidence, still again it's the scripts slowing down the performance, still no evidence... I can't see my d*ck in my pants so still no evidence I am a girl" It's obvious R* is trying to cripple performance after each update just to block SP mods. You know what, I totally regret it buying a legit copy of GTAV PC. The story mode also really f*cking sucks and f*ck that intensive focusing on GTA Online. GTA never has been online and it shoudn't be IMHO. But you know how big companies are, they will never listen to their customers. dear god, get away with your conspiracy theories, it makes no f*cking sense to cripple performance to block mods, it just doesnt make any SENSE AT ALL. There is no explicit documentation of anything... \GTA San Andreas\data\handling.cfg \GTA San Andreas\data\vehicles.ide Please, just leave. Yeah your right, allright.... Though they certainly does no care for modders since V... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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