How rockstar is (cleverly) scamming us

July 10, 2015

This seems to be a bitch and moan thread in disguise.

July 10, 2015

All the same, you're basically excusing the ones who complain about cash cards yet don't purchase them or glitch.

I see where you're going, but I think it's a bit shaky how you're getting there.

I'm saying is when you really think about it, those that don't purchase cash cards have no more a leg to stand on then the ones complaining about cash cards, what irks me is that they have this false superiority about it.

The only people who have every right to complain, yet don't are the ones who actually purchase cash cards.

my overall solution to the problem: subscription model, everybody pays, R* gets a steady cash flow from a larger group of people, meaning individual cost can be kept low, and everybody gets access to ALL the content they want, no segregation of the community, no paying individually for DLC, games get proper QA and with that hackers get kicked the f*ck out, economy gets balanced, servers get the maintenance they need, DLC comes out more regular and more qualitative, and more importantly, you get a better quality of players, people who actually want to play not troll/hack/etc

I mean seriously, it would fix SO many problems.

So instead of the current system, where only those who actually want to spend their real money on in-game money do so...you would rather everyone having to spend their real money on subsidising content?

R* have said that they specifically chose the current system as no one HAS to buy cash cards - they are not essential for the experience - and they enable them to deliver the updates / DLC for free to all users.

You obviously somehow know that this method is not really working for them - "Clearly this business model is only marginally succesful, IE. just enough to keep gas in the tank" despite them choosing to continue with it.

You also seem to think that everyone paying the subscription would give them access to ALL the content they want - as if magically people would stop bitching about the latest content just because they are paying for it. Surely this would make the bitching worse?? People manage to moan about free content - god only knows how incensed they will be when they are having to pay for it (whether they like the content or not).

I also don't see how having a bit more money would enable R* to get rid of all the hackers and glitchers - if it was easy to do they would have done it already.

The QA is valid to a point - but even with a huge influx of money they could not get enough QA testers to mimic what happens when an update goes live to millions of people around the world.

Your final point about the subscription model ensuring a better quality of player is also laughable. Am sure there are plenty of people who have bought shark cards who are as happy to troll as the next person. Other games that feature paid for DLC are not immune to trolls etc, so no reason to think that thedse people would suddenly abandon GTA.

Indeed. Unfortunately, the dense do not understand nor are willing to comprehend the valid points that you, along with myself and many others, have made; clear thought out, rational, balanced and logical arguments. Unlike, the unsubstantiated drivel that some keep spewing out.

Put simply R* is not scamming us. Micro's are here to stay.

/thread.

Edited July 10, 2015 by blacknambala

July 10, 2015

McDonalds is a company, making profits. Yet nobody complains about being scammed (you do know McDeaths food is not real, among other fast food places), but i bet op goes there everyday, and gives them his money on a daily.

I'm lovin it.....My crew pix is an evil ronald shoving a "burger" down a persons throat...

Edited July 10, 2015 by Cracka.Brew

July 10, 2015

This seems to be a bitch and moan thread in disguise.

To be fair, so are 75% of the other ones.

July 10, 2015

Except for the Base Game, I haven't paid anything. And I bought the CE for Ps3 and the normal Edition for Ps4. Roughly 160$. Do I feel scammed? No. Not at all. I have invested hundreds of hours and of something can keep my occupied that much, it's well worth the money. For 160$ you could alternatively get a COD game ONCE + 4 map packs, which play the same as the maps in the 4 titles before it.

Yes, some things in GTA are really f*d up, but look at the whole product. Long story with lots of voice acting, story writing, etc. Big map with lots of tiny details. Dozens of vehicles.

And the updates are awesome as well. (Oh and the DLC items are free in SP. The could have made Shark Cards for SP too, you know?)

July 10, 2015

I'm not being scammed. I bought the game for $60 and haven't spent a penny more.

Only to spend all of that money on a few car upgrades

Do contact missions. You can get $100k an hour at LEAST.

Only to spend $50k on turbo and 100% armor. That's an hour's pay spent in less than 5 minutes.

Makeup: $1k to $5k, costs around $20 IRL

A pair of jeans: $500+, costs maybe $100+ for designer jeans IRL, or reliable jeans for $45 IRL

Window tint: $1k to $5k, costs $200 for a sedan IRL.

If I lived in LS on Online, I'd be living in the streets just like all of the pedestrians.

In that case, you should also take into account how in a half hour, you can steal a vehicle, sell it for $10k, and be perfectly okay with no repercussions.

While some things are stupid expensive, it's also terribly easy to get loads of money no problem.

If I lived in LS on online, I'd be a [cold blooded murderer psychopath] millionaire.

But this is a game, so I don't need to worry about anything else, so I spend my virtual money on cool things that I don't really need, but I want.

Edited July 11, 2015 by CReaper210

July 11, 2015

I'm not being scammed. I bought the game for $60 and haven't spent a penny more.

Only to spend all of that money on a few car upgrades

Do contact missions. You can get $100k an hour at LEAST.

Only to spend $50k on turbo and 100% armor. That's an hour's pay spent in less than 5 minutes.

Makeup: $1k to $5k, costs around $20 IRL

A pair of jeans: $500+, costs maybe $100+ for designer jeans IRL, or reliable jeans for $45 IRL

Window tint: $1k to $5k, costs $200 for a sedan IRL.

If I lived in LS on Online, I'd be living in the streets just like all of the pedestrians.

In that case, you should also take into account how in a half hour, you can steal a vehicle, sell it for $10k, and be perfectly okay with no repercussions.

While some things are stupid expensive, it's also terribly easy to get loads of money no problem.

If I lied in LS on online, I'd be a [cold blooded murderer psychopath] millionaire.

But this is a game, so I don't need to worry about anything else, so I spend my virtual money on cool things that I don't really need, but I want.

I want my cars upgraded and my ammo full, that's all I ask for. By the time I get my vehicles fully upgraded, the next update will be out, so that's more money spent on what I need to get what I want. I have yet to be satisfied with what I have in online because I've been grinding for it since the beginning.

Mayhaps that's what online is all about.

July 11, 2015

All the same, you're basically excusing the ones who complain about cash cards yet don't purchase them or glitch.

I see where you're going, but I think it's a bit shaky how you're getting there.

I'm saying is when you really think about it, those that don't purchase cash cards have no more a leg to stand on then the ones complaining about cash cards, what irks me is that they have this false superiority about it.

The only people who have every right to complain, yet don't are the ones who actually purchase cash cards.

my overall solution to the problem: subscription model, everybody pays, R* gets a steady cash flow from a larger group of people, meaning individual cost can be kept low, and everybody gets access to ALL the content they want, no segregation of the community, no paying individually for DLC, games get proper QA and with that hackers get kicked the f*ck out, economy gets balanced, servers get the maintenance they need, DLC comes out more regular and more qualitative, and more importantly, you get a better quality of players, people who actually want to play not troll/hack/etc

I mean seriously, it would fix SO many problems.

So instead of the current system, where only those who actually want to spend their real money on in-game money do so...you would rather everyone having to spend their real money on subsidising content?

R* have said that they specifically chose the current system as no one HAS to buy cash cards - they are not essential for the experience - and they enable them to deliver the updates / DLC for free to all users.

You obviously somehow know that this method is not really working for them - "Clearly this business model is only marginally succesful, IE. just enough to keep gas in the tank" despite them choosing to continue with it.

You also seem to think that everyone paying the subscription would give them access to ALL the content they want - as if magically people would stop bitching about the latest content just because they are paying for it. Surely this would make the bitching worse?? People manage to moan about free content - god only knows how incensed they will be when they are having to pay for it (whether they like the content or not).

I also don't see how having a bit more money would enable R* to get rid of all the hackers and glitchers - if it was easy to do they would have done it already.

The QA is valid to a point - but even with a huge influx of money they could not get enough QA testers to mimic what happens when an update goes live to millions of people around the world.

Your final point about the subscription model ensuring a better quality of player is also laughable. Am sure there are plenty of people who have bought shark cards who are as happy to troll as the next person. Other games that feature paid for DLC are not immune to trolls etc, so no reason to think that thedse people would suddenly abandon GTA.

Firstly, Yes, I think everyone should pay their fair share, it's worked in the past and I think it's a pretty good system.

There isn't magical about it, if everyone paid a subscription, R* would be able to balance the game economy to be more equitable, not getting rid of ALL the grind but make it more equitable.

Second, the quality of players would improve because they would have to PAY to be here, and generally when there is a fee on the line, you get a better quality of player because trolling/griefing can get you banned and lose the stuff you paid for.

Moreover, this would give R* the budget to have more real time game management and be able to catch and ban hackers/trolls/griefers more quickly, they would also have the money to develop hot fixes more quickly, all of which this is under the auspices of a better QA experience.

I don't understand how you can't see it, it should be rather obvious, if R* had more money in the budget for online they would be able to accomplish more things, more often and with better quality. The old adage you get what you pay for applies.

your last statement is a strawman because I'm not talking about paid DLC, I'm talking a subscription model, also I am a believer in capitalism and the fairness of paying for a product I want and believe in.

R* shares some of the blame because they don't allot more money to development of online, but also in the fact that they chose such a business model, but also the blame lies with people who refuse to support them financially. I understand that if we were to do the math using just the cash cards, that monthly contribution would be rather high, because there was no way to guarantee everyone would contribute. by having a subscription model, every one pays and the average per person is kept down.

by having a subscription R* has a steady cash flow, with just cash cards their income becomes probabilistic, and unsteady. I would much rather a more stable and sustainable situation.

July 11, 2015

All the same, you're basically excusing the ones who complain about cash cards yet don't purchase them or glitch.

I see where you're going, but I think it's a bit shaky how you're getting there.

I'm saying is when you really think about it, those that don't purchase cash cards have no more a leg to stand on then the ones complaining about cash cards, what irks me is that they have this false superiority about it.

The only people who have every right to complain, yet don't are the ones who actually purchase cash cards.

my overall solution to the problem: subscription model, everybody pays, R* gets a steady cash flow from a larger group of people, meaning individual cost can be kept low, and everybody gets access to ALL the content they want, no segregation of the community, no paying individually for DLC, games get proper QA and with that hackers get kicked the f*ck out, economy gets balanced, servers get the maintenance they need, DLC comes out more regular and more qualitative, and more importantly, you get a better quality of players, people who actually want to play not troll/hack/etc

I mean seriously, it would fix SO many problems.

So instead of the current system, where only those who actually want to spend their real money on in-game money do so...you would rather everyone having to spend their real money on subsidising content?

R* have said that they specifically chose the current system as no one HAS to buy cash cards - they are not essential for the experience - and they enable them to deliver the updates / DLC for free to all users.

You obviously somehow know that this method is not really working for them - "Clearly this business model is only marginally succesful, IE. just enough to keep gas in the tank" despite them choosing to continue with it.

You also seem to think that everyone paying the subscription would give them access to ALL the content they want - as if magically people would stop bitching about the latest content just because they are paying for it. Surely this would make the bitching worse?? People manage to moan about free content - god only knows how incensed they will be when they are having to pay for it (whether they like the content or not).

I also don't see how having a bit more money would enable R* to get rid of all the hackers and glitchers - if it was easy to do they would have done it already.

The QA is valid to a point - but even with a huge influx of money they could not get enough QA testers to mimic what happens when an update goes live to millions of people around the world.

Your final point about the subscription model ensuring a better quality of player is also laughable. Am sure there are plenty of people who have bought shark cards who are as happy to troll as the next person. Other games that feature paid for DLC are not immune to trolls etc, so no reason to think that thedse people would suddenly abandon GTA.

Indeed. Unfortunately, the dense do not understand nor are willing to comprehend the valid points that you, along with myself and many others, have made; clear thought out, rational, balanced and logical arguments. Unlike, the unsubstantiated drivel that some keep spewing out.

Put simply R* is not scamming us. Micro's are here to stay.

/thread.

That's not even what we are talking about, please actually read the posts instead of being a jackass. '

Do you even realize that I'm agreeing with the statement of R* not scamming us, but I was actually going deeper into looking to better solutions that could be more equitable to all parties involved, because unlike you, I don't see the issue as being mutually exclusive and there is a middle ground that can get everyone what they want.

if anything YOU'RE the dense one.

Edited July 11, 2015 by AgentExeider

July 11, 2015

All the same, you're basically excusing the ones who complain about cash cards yet don't purchase them or glitch.

I see where you're going, but I think it's a bit shaky how you're getting there.

I'm saying is when you really think about it, those that don't purchase cash cards have no more a leg to stand on then the ones complaining about cash cards, what irks me is that they have this false superiority about it.

The only people who have every right to complain, yet don't are the ones who actually purchase cash cards.

my overall solution to the problem: subscription model, everybody pays, R* gets a steady cash flow from a larger group of people, meaning individual cost can be kept low, and everybody gets access to ALL the content they want, no segregation of the community, no paying individually for DLC, games get proper QA and with that hackers get kicked the f*ck out, economy gets balanced, servers get the maintenance they need, DLC comes out more regular and more qualitative, and more importantly, you get a better quality of players, people who actually want to play not troll/hack/etc

I mean seriously, it would fix SO many problems.

So instead of the current system, where only those who actually want to spend their real money on in-game money do so...you would rather everyone having to spend their real money on subsidising content?

R* have said that they specifically chose the current system as no one HAS to buy cash cards - they are not essential for the experience - and they enable them to deliver the updates / DLC for free to all users.

You obviously somehow know that this method is not really working for them - "Clearly this business model is only marginally succesful, IE. just enough to keep gas in the tank" despite them choosing to continue with it.

You also seem to think that everyone paying the subscription would give them access to ALL the content they want - as if magically people would stop bitching about the latest content just because they are paying for it. Surely this would make the bitching worse?? People manage to moan about free content - god only knows how incensed they will be when they are having to pay for it (whether they like the content or not).

I also don't see how having a bit more money would enable R* to get rid of all the hackers and glitchers - if it was easy to do they would have done it already.

The QA is valid to a point - but even with a huge influx of money they could not get enough QA testers to mimic what happens when an update goes live to millions of people around the world.

Your final point about the subscription model ensuring a better quality of player is also laughable. Am sure there are plenty of people who have bought shark cards who are as happy to troll as the next person. Other games that feature paid for DLC are not immune to trolls etc, so no reason to think that thedse people would suddenly abandon GTA.

Indeed. Unfortunately, the dense do not understand nor are willing to comprehend the valid points that you, along with myself and many others, have made; clear thought out, rational, balanced and logical arguments. Unlike, the unsubstantiated drivel that some keep spewing out.

Put simply R* is not scamming us. Micro's are here to stay.

/thread.

That's not even what we are talking about, please actually read the posts instead of being a jackass. 'scuse me, a dense jackass.

I have read your post you moronic idiot. You can turn blue in the face,till the cow's come home, with your spewing of illogical drivel.

Rockstar and Take 2 will never introduce your subscription model. It won't keep the trolls out nor stop script kiddies in manipulating the game.

It simply wouldn't work. Period. For the reasons already stated by the previous poster.

You are the dense one for even suggesting such a torrid idea.

The current model is fine as it is.

Edited July 11, 2015 by blacknambala

July 11, 2015

All the same, you're basically excusing the ones who complain about cash cards yet don't purchase them or glitch.

I see where you're going, but I think it's a bit shaky how you're getting there.

I'm saying is when you really think about it, those that don't purchase cash cards have no more a leg to stand on then the ones complaining about cash cards, what irks me is that they have this false superiority about it.

The only people who have every right to complain, yet don't are the ones who actually purchase cash cards.

my overall solution to the problem: subscription model, everybody pays, R* gets a steady cash flow from a larger group of people, meaning individual cost can be kept low, and everybody gets access to ALL the content they want, no segregation of the community, no paying individually for DLC, games get proper QA and with that hackers get kicked the f*ck out, economy gets balanced, servers get the maintenance they need, DLC comes out more regular and more qualitative, and more importantly, you get a better quality of players, people who actually want to play not troll/hack/etc

I mean seriously, it would fix SO many problems.

So instead of the current system, where only those who actually want to spend their real money on in-game money do so...you would rather everyone having to spend their real money on subsidising content?

R* have said that they specifically chose the current system as no one HAS to buy cash cards - they are not essential for the experience - and they enable them to deliver the updates / DLC for free to all users.

You obviously somehow know that this method is not really working for them - "Clearly this business model is only marginally succesful, IE. just enough to keep gas in the tank" despite them choosing to continue with it.

You also seem to think that everyone paying the subscription would give them access to ALL the content they want - as if magically people would stop bitching about the latest content just because they are paying for it. Surely this would make the bitching worse?? People manage to moan about free content - god only knows how incensed they will be when they are having to pay for it (whether they like the content or not).

I also don't see how having a bit more money would enable R* to get rid of all the hackers and glitchers - if it was easy to do they would have done it already.

The QA is valid to a point - but even with a huge influx of money they could not get enough QA testers to mimic what happens when an update goes live to millions of people around the world.

Your final point about the subscription model ensuring a better quality of player is also laughable. Am sure there are plenty of people who have bought shark cards who are as happy to troll as the next person. Other games that feature paid for DLC are not immune to trolls etc, so no reason to think that thedse people would suddenly abandon GTA.

Indeed. Unfortunately, the dense do not understand nor are willing to comprehend the valid points that you, along with myself and many others, have made; clear thought out, rational, balanced and logical arguments. Unlike, the unsubstantiated drivel that some keep spewing out.

Put simply R* is not scamming us. Micro's are here to stay.

/thread.

That's not even what we are talking about, please actually read the posts instead of being a jackass. 'scuse me, a dense jackass.

I have read your post you moronic idiot. You can turn blue in the face,till the cow's come home, with your spewing of illogical drivel.

Rockstar and Take 2 will never introduce your subscription model. It won't keep the trolls out nor stop script kiddies in manipulating the game.

It simply wouldn't work. Period. For the reasons already stated by the previous poster.

You are the dense one for even suggesting such a torrid idea.

The current model is fine as it is.

what reasons, the previous poster nor you have demonstrated how my suggestions have no merit, all you have done is just say "it won't work" without proving any prove as to why it won't.

the fact that historically subscription models have given rise to a better experience overall then F2P models is not even debatable.

the current model is NOT fine, it's barely acceptable for keeping the lights on but it's not fine. The fact that you can't even see beyond your own prejudices to see that is amazingly narrow minded.

If you take a look at every single DLC that has dropped, almost all of them have been things to buy, and not anything that adds anything new to the game. This happens because the only thing R* can do to make money, is create new items that cost money, to encourage cash card sales. That's it. creating new gameplay and a better experience doesn't create money for them, it doesn't encourage cash card sales.

By adopting a subscription model, even an optional one, would encourage a more steady stream of money, creating things to encourage cash card sales would no longer be the sole focus, and they would have room to breathe, and be able to create a better experience and add new game play features with the justification, that doing so would encourage more people to subscribe to keep the development flow going.

and by no means do I suggest doing away with cash cards, I would still keep them, but under this model, they would be truly optional, and act as an extra shot in the wallet for people needing a bit more money.

As it stands right now that while R* can't force you to get them, they really NEED you to buy them to keep things going and having them living on such a small number of purchasers is no way to have online grow.

And before you ask, "how do you know that there are a small number.", I will admit this is a guess, but by going by the amount of people who identify as non-purchasers of cash cards of even in this thread, the number of people who purchase cash cards, and purchase them regularly is low.

DLCs used to come out once a month like clock work, and I'm hoping the recent skips in the months was due to the PC release and the team working on that instead of being an indicator of R*'s budget running low and releases slowing down.

The fact that in just the recent DLC the prices have jumped up tremendously, and that some of the items are re-skinned copies of earlier content. so the quality has dropped. again, I'm hoping is an irregularity caused by the PC release and team being allotted to it and not an indicator of future trends.

See these are concerns that I have, but more over I don't see both sides of this debate to be mutually exclusive, that there is a middle ground. The fact that you're not even considering it shows that your the idiot not me. At least I am trying to rectify the differing points of view and trying to see the discussion from other points of view.

Now if you honestly can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

What;s funny is I don't even know why you're even debating this since you one point of contention "Is R* scamming us" is a point I AGREE with you on. No I don't believe they are scamming us, but more over, I'm looking at the accusation and where it's coming from, and figuring out a better solution to it.

Edited July 11, 2015 by AgentExeider

July 11, 2015

Ugh there's still people coming here thinking they solved the complex formula that is "Shark cards"

yeah.. no shi* Rockstar made shark cards available for lazy people like you. But for most people with self control, there's this thing called earning it. I've earned 30 cars fully upgraded including all the sports classics, my favorite supers, and some cool offroad cars. Not only that, but I earned my very own $3 million Hydra jet. I have absolutely never cheated or received glitched money (thank god).

I have been playing since PS3 release and love the game. If you REALLY want to play with the new vehicles, you can do one of the following:

-Earn it. Spend time doing missions/heists

-Buy it. Buy shark cards to save time (they're just time saver packs)

-Buy it in single player (single player money is easy to get and you can reload a save if you don't like your purchase)

-Try it in creator mode. Give it a test drive in creator mode before you buy to see if you like it.

We're not being scammed. You just don't understand how the gaming industry works. They gave us FREE cars. Absolutely free. I payed $60 for what the game originally offered. And Rockstar keeps giving us new cool stuff.

July 11, 2015

The means to make the money are there. Even if you just did missions you can easily make over 100k an hour. The DLC IS FREE if you actually play the game and don't just drive around in free mode you would be able to afford it

July 11, 2015

You might as well say that Ferrari is scamming us all for making expensive cars.

You do know you are not forced to purchase anything in the updates, right?

July 11, 2015

Promoting highly desirable expensive items,

and making earning money a full time task (40 hours of grinding earns about $5 million),

and presenting an alternative purchase method ($60 can buy a copy of GTAV OR a few million in-game dollars),

Is nothing short of exploitative.

July 11, 2015

Ugh there's still people coming here thinking they solved the complex formula that is "Shark cards"

yeah.. no shi* Rockstar made shark cards available for lazy people like you. But for most people with self control, there's this thing called earning it. I've earned 30 cars fully upgraded including all the sports classics, my favorite supers, and some cool offroad cars. Not only that, but I earned my very own $3 million Hydra jet. I have absolutely never cheated or received glitched money (thank god).

I have been playing since PS3 release and love the game. If you REALLY want to play with the new vehicles, you can do one of the following:

-Earn it. Spend time doing missions/heists

-Buy it. Buy shark cards to save time (they're just time saver packs)

-Buy it in single player (single player money is easy to get and you can reload a save if you don't like your purchase)

-Try it in creator mode. Give it a test drive in creator mode before you buy to see if you like it.

We're not being scammed. You just don't understand how the gaming industry works. They gave us FREE cars. Absolutely free. I payed $60 for what the game originally offered. And Rockstar keeps giving us new cool stuff.

The means to make the money are there. Even if you just did missions you can easily make over 100k an hour. The DLC IS FREE if you actually play the game and don't just drive around in free mode you would be able to afford it

You might as well say that Ferrari is scamming us all for making expensive cars.

You do know you are not forced to purchase anything in the updates, right?

Promoting highly desirable expensive items,

and making earning money a full time task (40 hours of grinding earns about $5 million),

and presenting an alternative purchase method ($60 can buy a copy of GTAV OR a few million in-game dollars),

Is nothing short of exploitative.

um....... I'm assuming your replying to the OP, so never mind.....

July 11, 2015