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is Hollywood terrible or am I jaded?


El Dildo
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help a brother out.

I started to write something in the Independence Day sequel thread about how awful of an idea that is, then it turned into a rant, so I'm going to spill it here.

 

seriously, an Independence Day 2?

I have no interest in this like I have no interest in Jurassic World.

 

AW SH/T you guys they opened a DINOSAUR theme park GOSH how original and exciting, I wonder what will happen THIS TIME? you think visitors will come with their families and enjoy a fun-filled educational experience? or do you think something might go wrong and some dinosaurs might massacre half the douchebags on the island? we've seen this f/cking movie like 5 times now. are they going to make it again in another 10 years??

 

:sui::sui::sui:

 

they rebooted Spider Man with some asshole kids that no one has even heard of and they did it barely a decade after they just finished rebooting Spider Man the first time, but with more prominent actors that everyone could celebrate and remember. like it was some kind of sick joke, like everyone had amnesia during the 00's decade. you can't reboot a f/cking reboot within 10 years what the f/ck, Hollywood...

 

this remake/sequel obsession is becoming really depressing.

when did Hollywood get on this train and why can't they stop it? it's ruining one of my favorite pastimes. I used to see like 10 movies in a year when I was younger, and not because we just had more free time but because I was always really hyped up to see several new films and made time to go, like a regular event.

 

we've just stopped doing that.

I only feel hyped anymore for maybe 2-3 movies at the most. sometimes an entire Summer goes by and we don't go to the theater. the only reason I saw Mad Max is because it was a legit stunt- and film-making experience; they actually built all those awesome rides and performed most of those stuns live on camera instead of just a bunch of CGI.

 

but like, Hollywood has gone to the sh/tter lately. it's trash.

at least 3/4 of the yearly blockbusters now are just cheap (and really cheesy) Super Hero flicks or remakes/sequels of things that didn't require a remake or sequel. now they're going to try and remake National Lampoons Family Vacation, too. The Griswolds just weren't cool enough to be left alone in posterity. they have to updated with cell phones and dick jokes.

 

remember your childhood?

yeah well f/ck you.

 

Vacation-movie-family-picture-620x400.jp

Edited by El Diablo
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The National Lampoons sequel never stood a chance, the moment they cast Ed Helms as the lead.

 

That's the extent of my thoughts, for now. :p

Edited by ¥en
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I love when people say "Hollywood" as if it's an entity. And they only use it when talking about bad movies. As if the same people don't also make good movies, or at least those people who make good movies aren't "Hollywood".

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Didn't people like Jurassic World?

I haven't seen it, I was just as expectant of it to suck as the next guy. But I've seen some good stuff about it.

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It's super fun. But I'm a sucker for that sh*t and I can occaisionally shut off the right parts of my brain to enjoy something I'd normally be hyper critical of; I think that comes from my work. It's also far easier when I'm not expecting to see something that will engage those parts of my brain. I leave 'em at home, so to speak.

 

But aside from all that, there's not much difference in films these days, El_D, you're just getting older. And I mean that with every ounce of sincerity, as someone who recently went through it himself. Try to avoid succumbing to cynicism. ;)

 

As for the future of 'cinema,' or 'hollywood' - things are in flux, but there's never been a wider variety of excellent work to enjoy. You may just need to seek a better curator than the local cineplex.

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It's just a product of how we value nostalgia and familiarity. You see something similar in other commodities being sold-- it's some restaurants entire shtick, too. The short of it is just that many people (obviously not yourself) often want something new, but only half-heartedly. They yearn for something familiar enough to recognize and be comforted by, while still seeing the spectacle of something new and freshish. If you're angry about film in general going this way, I would recommend a few older films you could go through to at least stave your frustration for a while. If you think this is just a lame development in Hollywood, then fear not: trends and culture are moving at ever-faster paces in the modern world, and I'm sure once the superhero bubble crashes, the reboot-fever will soften up as well.

 

Then again, maybe it won't. Maybe there will continue to be a prevalence of sequel mania in the American film industry and until the end of our days we will be fed the regurgitated corpse of our childhood memories bought and sold back to us adjusted for inflation and tinged with the rotten stench of greed and laziness and we'll just chew it up scornfully, one half of us making do, the other half giving up altogether. I doubt it though.

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kzgN7qp.png

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Kung Fury is case in point.

How so? That one really chafed your ass, hey? When it comes to something like that, I think it's important to remember the immense amount of work that goes into a project. Not even a script is a one-man job. Perhaps my perspective on the craft allows for a more... understanding impression. The nostalgia factor was what go you into it int he first place, no?

 

Just keep in mind that more people work on a Lifetime MOW than the handful of kids who produced Kung Fury.

 

 

As far as reboots and remakes go; they are nothing new, and make a ton of sense. I often liken it to a stage production which, by nature, changes over time and is remounted or toured... A film is 'remade' while a show is 'revived'.

 

And I've said many times before but it bears repeating - the idea that your 'childhood' is somehow affected by what happens to an IP later in life is silly.

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One of these days, Scratch, we need to learn you how to conduct a real conversation on the forums. ;)

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Creed Bratton

There's always going to be more sh*t than good stuff. And that's a good thing in a way because I'd go insane if I couldn't find time to experience all the good stuff. Like you, I don't care about Independence Day. I didn't even like the original. And I never cared about Jurassic Park, or Godzilla or any kind of disaster or monster movie and anything in between. Honestly, I don't even like Alien. There, I said it. I think it didn't age well. It was amazing back in its day, I'm sure. It was unique, new and fresh. But I don't care. So I find myself unable to care about sequels to those films. I take a note in case I hear good things, like the sequel to Aliens directed by Neill Blomkamp. That sounds like it could revitalize the franchise and make me care about it more. But sequels and reboots of good films that are completely unnecessary bother me a little bit. I simply don't have the energy to react. I mostly just laugh like with the new Terminator that looks like a porn parody.

 

There is some good stuff. Mad Max was crazy fun, Marvel is doing a fine job with their MCU, and then there's this to look forward to:

 

 

hate.jpg

 

 

Edited by The Yokel
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Mr. Scratch

One of these days, Scratch, we need to learn you how to conduct a real conversation on the forums. ;)

 

No.

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Spaghetti Cat

Have that feeling like I'm gonna get my hand bitten answering questions...

 

 

It's an important point that you make regarding the 2000's era films. I'd actually go a little bit further back than that to the mid to late 90's. What happened in that time frame?

 

(this may surprise some people coming from me)

 

Corporate mergers and consolidation.

 

For example, around that time we had the AOL Time/Warner merger. I believe one of the largest at that time. We had an internet company (anyone remember AOL? anyone?) purchasing a historic media company. Years previous to that Warner Bros merged with Time Magazine company. So this giant conglomerate was running a movie studio.

 

People may be surprised to hear that there are about 7-8 companies that run most of the media in this country:

 

Disney Co. - The Parent company, owns ABC, ESPN, Disney Studios, Pixar, ect...

 

Warner Bros. - Spun off from Time. Now the only true movie studio.

 

Paramount - Forget the name of the parent company, but it's the same as the Six-Flags theme parks.

 

Sony (Also known as Columbia) - Makes a fine video-game console.

 

21st Century Fox - Drawing a blank on the parent company, but it's Rubert Murdoc's outfit. (Newscorp I think)

 

MGM - I believe they are owned by a holding company or venture capital. Went bankrupt years ago and restructured.

 

NBC/Universal - Formerly of G.E. now owned by Comcast (the cable provider)

 

(May be one more, but I forget at the moment)

 

 

So what do we see from that list? With the exception of WB, which was spun off, every studio has a parent company. Now that's a good thing if you want to make 300 million dollar blockbusters. Since the parent company has the capital to make it happen. But it's bad when it comes to diversity in movies. (diversity of thought and opinion, not race or gender)

 

Why's that? Well you might have someone who runs the studio, but he's not ultimately in charge. He's some special VP in the organizational chart. For example, at SONY, the studio head has the same clout as the other VP's who run the TV section, or the Washing Machine division. Spiderman has the same importance as the newest cellphone line. It's all about the corporate bottom line. Major creative decisions are made by the same people who have to make this quarter's numbers look good. Creativity doesn't work like that, creativity goes to the board room to die.

 

Circling back, what's all that mean? The last thing a corporation wants is risk for their bottom line. That's why we get sequels, remakes, and franchises. People are familiar with Spiderman, so it's less of a risk than say guy with problems but a compelling narrative. Where's the merchandizing in that?

 

Compounding the problem is that much of the box office comes from overseas. Why do we have simple stories and characters in blockbusters? So we can sell that to China, Europe, Russia, etc. China has become so important that they are now dictating what content films can show. Since they don't want to loose business in China most studios comply. The target audience isn't 18-30 year olds in America anymore, it's 13-25 year olds in some Chinese Province.

 

Does that mean it's all over? Nope. We're starting to see cracks in the cartel. Outfits like Amazon and Netflicks are producing, and more importantly, distributing shows and films. iTunes has a rich and diverse selection of independent artists. I think there's a better way, essentially we're going from one conglomerate to another, but it's going to take time. Much like what happened to the music industry, we're going to see these companies divest or spin-off the studios. Heck more people go to netficks or redbox now than to the theatre. So it's a coming.

 

In the meantime support some of the smaller outfits. Scratch can tell you that I'm working on something. I'm sure Otter might be able to suggest some as well. Just don't illegally download movies, that doesn't help anyone.

 

(wanted to add something about culture and those who steer it, but another time...)

 

TL;DR - Mostly and yes.

 

Hope that helps :^:

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Mr. Scratch

Just don't illegally download movies, that doesn't help anyone.

 

 

I uh, umm... ok.

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Dude, this is the way I look at it. Every generation thinks the generation that follows them is going to hell in a hand basket. "Kids these days, I tell ya!"

 

Just substitute 'Kids' for Hollywood.

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I love when people say "Hollywood" as if it's an entity. And they only use it when talking about bad movies. As if the same people don't also make good movies, or at least those people who make good movies aren't "Hollywood".

well I'm referring to a trend.

I didn't say everything is bad and I would exclude independent films from the criticism.

 

like I said, there's still a handful of great films being put out there each year, and which actually make me feel like I need to go to the movies. but they honestly seem to be getting fewer and further between. does it really not feel that way to you?

It's just a product of how we value nostalgia and familiarity. You see something similar in other commodities being sold-- it's some restaurants entire shtick, too. The short of it is just that many people (obviously not yourself) often want something new, but only half-heartedly. They yearn for something familiar enough to recognize and be comforted by, while still seeing the spectacle of something new and freshish. If you're angry about film in general going this way, I would recommend a few older films you could go through to at least stave your frustration for a while. If you think this is just a lame development in Hollywood, then fear not: trends and culture are moving at ever-faster paces in the modern world, and I'm sure once the superhero bubble crashes, the reboot-fever will soften up as well.

I will gladly take any and all film recommendations.

always considered myself a petty movie buff but the beautiful thing about movies is that there's always new ones to be found no matter how many you've seen, however far back you go.

 

and I don't want to pretend like I'm afraid this trend will never pass. Hollywood has its ages, its ups and downs, but it really feels like a 'down' right now and I was just curious if I'm the only one stressing out about it :lol:

 

Dude, this is the way I look at it. Every generation thinks the generation that follows them is going to hell in a hand basket. "Kids these days, I tell ya!"

but see, I don't feel that way about the rest of the world.

that's not how I view this generation.

 

my beef is just about Hollywood at this point. I actually think the kids today are doing alright.

Edited by El Diablo
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Not to keep harping on about age and experience, but I'll also share this sentiment: most films tell the same stories time and time again. In a way, reboots and the like are actually more honest. ;) but you reach a certain point where you've seen all the stories and the beats and predictable plot lines become far too apparent. Take the buddy comedy, for instance - I'm willing to bet you could write one out in an hour, at this point in your film watching career. Or god forbid another Hero's Journey. Two unlikely people need to team up to do something, are somehow divided along the way, but get over it in time to save the day. An underdog decides to take the path of most resistance, tries, fails, tries again and succeeds. It hasn't just now become pablum, it has always been pablum. So what you've got left is spectacle and craft.... Movie magic. :p

 

The really good films are those that tow the line juuuuuust far enough to be subversive, or those that revel in their existence so much as to be a comment on the genre itself. I'd argue that many of those are coming out these days, and many are financially successful.

 

Furthermore, 'independent' cinema is a term even looser than 'hollywood'. It says absolutely nothing about the content or even the budget, unless we're talking about #toomuchindie Zach Braff. :p

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Well you guys are going to really like this one. Forget about the fact that we're getting a Fantastic 4 reboot already, but Sony just casted their NEW Spider-Man.

 

Yep, that means not only will Spidey appear in the new Captain America, but he will also appear in the next Avengers, AND receive his own set of stand-alone films. That's right, Spider-Man is being rebooted AGAIN.

 

The problem with Spider-Man is that Sony won't let go of the rights, and I believe the rights are only contingent upon Sony's ability to continue releasing Spider-Man movies. So rather, Sony teamed up with Marvel and handed over creative control to Marvel Studios. They're effectively killing the franchise because they don't want to lose the rights. Greed is killing Spider-Man.

 

Thanks, Sony. Go get hacked again. mkay? Thanks.

Edited by X S
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Creed Bratton

I bet that Sony-Marvel deal goes something like this "We'll let you use Spidey if you promise to make a good Spidey movie for us because we're talentless, incompetent greedy f*cks without a clue".

 

And you know what, I have no problem with that. Sony can hold on to the IP all they want. I don't give a f*ck about what goes on in those corporations. As long as the movies are good and as long as they don't ruin the MCU, I'm a happy camper.

 

Amazing Spider-Man is literally the only movie that made me walk out of the theatre after 40 something minutes. That's how stupid that movie was IMO. In Marvel's hands we may finally see a decent Spider-Man movie. The 2002 Spidey was only good when you compare it to the super-hero movies of that time.

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Mr. Scratch

Superhero movies will be superhero movies. I'd rather someone, not Hollywood made another Doctor Who movie.

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Amazing Spider-Man is literally the only movie that made me walk out of the theatre after 40 something minutes. That's how stupid that movie was IMO. In Marvel's hands we may finally see a decent Spider-Man movie. The 2002 Spidey was only good when you compare it to the super-hero movies of that time.

 

I loved the first two Spider-Man movies, especially the second. (I'm also a huge fan of Sam Raimi's because of the Evil Dead films.) The problem with Spider-Man 4 and 5 was that Sony wanted more creative control over the films, which then eventually led Raimi to walk out on them. Raimi also blamed Sony for interfering and destroying the creative process and his initial interpretation of Spider-Man 3, and he said it was his intention to make Spider-Man 4 the best Spider-Man of the entire series, but that obviously never happened.

 

I just wish Raimi was still directing the franchise.

Edited by X S
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PhillBellic

I feel that they have run out of ideas, and are simply re-booting re-boots. :/

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well apparently I'm just missing the point :lol:

and I caught myself doing it the other day in the Fallout 4 topic.

 

when it comes to video game sequels and reboots, there's a lot of people who get upset that developers are messing with their nostalgic memories or their childhood or whatever. reboots tend to mess with the lore or the history of the game as original players knew it. and whenever I see people arguing that point (like with Fallout 4) I tend to think it's silly, tell them to get over it, and move forward.

 

but then here I am - unable to get over it or move forward - getting upset at the film industry for doing the exact same thing. I feel like I care about video games as much as movies but clearly I've placed more sentimental value in one than the other...

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feckyerlife

well apparently I'm just missing the point :lol:

and I caught myself doing it the other day in the Fallout 4 topic.

 

when it comes to video game sequels and reboots, there's a lot of people who get upset that developers are messing with their nostalgic memories or their childhood or whatever. reboots tend to mess with the lore or the history of the game as original players knew it. and whenever I see people arguing that point (like with Fallout 4) I tend to think it's silly, tell them to get over it, and move forward.

 

but then here I am - unable to get over it or move forward - getting upset at the film industry for doing the exact same thing. I feel like I care about video games as much as movies but clearly I've placed more sentimental value in one than the other...

i dont care about video game reboots but the movie ones are a little overboard, i mean. there was 4 different guys to play batman over the last 20 yrs. lol

Edited by feckyerlife
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Richard Power Colt

I think the main problem with a lot of these reboots, remakes and sequels isn't the lack of originality, but the fact that most of the time they just aren't very good movies. A lot of them just try to ride on the name of the originals by assigning some cheap and bad director for the job. Even re-boots can have new ideas and stories. Mad Max: Fury Road managed to both stay true to the originals and feel incredibly fresh at the same time. Fury Road is a bit of a rare exception though that I doubt we'll see a lot of. We've had other directors returning to their old beloved franchises before and it hasn't often been that successful *Cough* Peter Jackson, George Lucas and Ridley Scott *cough cough*. I hear James Cameron's getting the rights back to Terminator in 3 years though. I really wanna see him try a return to the franchise. Oh wait he's probably working on more Avatar which btw was a completely "new" blockbuster, but I got sick of it after the first one.

Edited by GTAandStuff
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Amazing Spider-Man is literally the only movie that made me walk out of the theatre after 40 something minutes. That's how stupid that movie was IMO. In Marvel's hands we may finally see a decent Spider-Man movie. The 2002 Spidey was only good when you compare it to the super-hero movies of that time.

 

I loved the first two Spider-Man movies, especially the second. (I'm also a huge fan of Sam Raimi's because of the Evil Dead films.) The problem with Spider-Man 4 and 5 was that Sony wanted more creative control over the films, which then eventually led Raimi to walk out on them. Raimi also blamed Sony for interfering and destroying the creative process and his initial interpretation of Spider-Man 3, and he said it was his intention to make Spider-Man 4 the best Spider-Man of the entire series, but that obviously never happened.

 

I just wish Raimi was still directing the franchise.

You and me both. One of the biggest problems I have is the way Sony sh*t on those movies.

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I think the main problem with a lot of these reboots, remakes and sequels isn't the lack of originality, but the fact that most of the time they just aren't very good movies. A lot of them just try to ride on the name of the originals by assigning some cheap and bad director for the job. Even re-boots can have new ideas and stories.

I can agree with that sentiment.

 

a lot of these remakes wouldn't be so bad in-and-of themselves, but they just don't even try to make a good movie, virtually every single scene, character development point, or plot "twist" is so tired and predictable and just 'paint-by-numbers.' it's so obvious that they're just not trying.

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