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Dingdongs

Eating disorders/body image/fat acceptance

Recommended Posts

Mr_Rager

Define "fat" in a way that isn't entirely subjective.

I don't think that's necessary. The eye test doesn't lie. Of course it depends on your height and structure, but there's no doubt in my mind that you don't need to be a genius to see if somebody's unhealthy weight wise.

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make total destroy

Oh sh*t, pack up your things folks, we have been defeated by HUMAN NATURE™.

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Mr_Rager

Yeah I've noticed people hate that term. Bullying starts at a very young age. I think human nature certainly applies to it.

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sivispacem

I don't think that's necessary.

Why not? In order to justify taking a negative attitude towards, and condoning harassment of, people because of a perceived issue, you first must define what that issue constitutes in such a way you can reasonably apply it.

 

Otherwise the whole thing becomes a ridiculous farce, like harassing people because they don't fit your personal, subjective view of what constitutes physical attractiveness. Which is, when push comes to shove, 99% of what we're actually talking about here. That might fly with the idiotic Reddit reactionaries like Tarnished Scrotum, but it won't to anyone endowed with a modicum of common sense and logical reasoning.

 

The eye test doesn't lie.

Actually it does, regularly and with alarming abandon.

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Mr_Rager

How? If I see someone with a triple chin walking in slow motion I might connect the dots and assume their health may be at risk. I think you expect to much out of people. Not everyone is going to be nice. Humans in general aren't nice.

Edited by Canadian Badass

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sivispacem

You really don't appear to understand what I'm saying. Why the f*ck fo you care enough about some random stranger's health to harass them, with no knowledge of their history, diet or genetic background? I'm all for encouraging people to be healthy but pretending bullying people for their weight does that is patently idiotic. People could try, y'know, not being vile c*nts all the time.

 

My actual point is that people don't really give a sh*t whether or not someone is healthy. Not that they can generally judge by walking past them in the street anyway, but pretending that the rhetoric directed at larger people is some sort of attempt at help is just f*cking stupid because it clearly isn't. It's pathetic if that's what you tell yourself to justify your pathetic shell of an existence.

 

No, what we're really talking about here are a bunch of very personally self-conscious lackeys and a few drifting chunks of human faeces simply attempting disguise their own burning self-loathing by picking on people that don't meet their subjective opinions what constitutes physical attractiveness. It's a clinical psychologist's wet dream. The whole thing is a pisstake defence mechanism. Rusty had invented this pseudoreality with its own set of natural laws and definitions so he can escape from the fact he's an insufferable bore, praiser of eugenics and probable cryptofascist who enjoys masturbating to the works of Friedrich Nietzsche. The same principle applies.

 

If you can't actually define at what point someone becomes "fat" the whole idea just becomes a subjective clusterf*ck that's no different to not liking people because of the colour of their hair or the fact they wear glasses. I find sh*t tattoos physically repulsive but I don't actively condone humiliating people with them because I appreciate what constitutes a sh*t tattoo in my opinion is just that- and opinion.

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Mr_Rager

We're at an impasse because I'm not pro-Bullying, pro shaming. My point is, it's natural. You will be isolated, ostracized, bullied, if you're fat. You aren't supposed to be fat. It isn't normal. I don't agree with the term normal, but I don't make the rules. The majority does. And the majority shames fat people. I don't disguise any hatred under the mask of medical concern. I have a "phobia" of being fat because I've been there and it's horrible.

Edited by Canadian Badass

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sivispacem

Whether or not it's natural is irrelevant. It's societally detrimental, utterly indefensible and more often a sign of crushing insecurity and borderline social panic in the perpetrator. My reaction to people's sh*t tattoos is every bit as natural; I just don't try and justify it by pretending it's either the natural order of society or a convoluted and logically baffling attempt to help them.

 

You aren't "supposed" to have Down's Syndrome or a dead twin attached to your shoulder. Does that mean bullying people who do is socially acceptable?

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Mr_Rager

Whether or not it's natural is irrelevant. It's societally detrimental, utterly indefensible and more often a sign of crushing insecurity and borderline social panic in the perpetrator. My reaction to people's sh*t tattoos is every bit as natural; I just don't try and justify it by pretending it's either the natural order of society or a convultuted and logically baffling attempt to help them.

I don't disagree. It's bad, we should all get along, nobody should judge anybody, but as "irrelevant" as nature may be to this, it rears it's ugly head when it comes to bullying those who are different.

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sivispacem

Saying it's "natural" is defending it, though. And to my eye, apologism is basically culpability. You wouldn't defend people bullying the disabled because they're less physically capable by saying "oh, well it's understandable because you can't walk", would you? Logically defending bullying of people because of their weight is exactly the same.

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Mr_Rager

Saying it's "natural" is defending it, though. And to my eye, apologism is basically culpability. You wouldn't defend people bullying the disabled because they're less physically capable by saying "oh, well it's understandable because you can't walk", would you? Logically defending bullying of people because of their weight is exactly the same.

The social implications of being fat is why I defend it. Well, I don't DEFEND it, I just understand why it happens, and why it won't stop. There's no need for me to repeat myself again, but gym class as a kid, recess, playing outside, playing sports. Being fat obviously puts you at a social disadvantage. Anybody who's at a social disadvantage will be bullied. I admire your position on the issue, you're certainly the good guy of the argument. But the good guy never wins in life. It's sad that it is that way. Being a c*nt in some circles gains you respect. Human social interaction is insanely flawed, and very cruel. It is what it is though.

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GTA_stu

I actually think it's socially detrimental to allow fatness to become accepted as a norm. I don't support bullying, but a general societal frowning upon fatness is perfectly healthy imo. If fat people weren't viewed more negatively than healthy people, then you'd have more happy people I'm sure, but you'd also have an even bigger obesity epidemic than what we have now. We as societies have tackled smoking, at least in most Western countries anyway. People are smoking less and it is beneficial to society. We took measures, we banned smoking in a lot of public places, we banned advertising, we increased prices and ran hard anti-smoking campaigns. Now we need to do the same with overweight and obese people. Why should they be exempt? It's just as big a problem, in fact it's arguably even bigger. We've made some small attempts, but we need to do more, much more.

Edited by GTA_stu

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Clem Fandango

I don't support bullying,

No you only support self-harm and crushing self esteem issues.

 

 

 

If fat people weren't viewed more negatively than healthy people, then you'd have more happy people I'm sure, but you'd also have an even bigger obesity epidemic than what we have now.

lmao we should all forgo happiness to be pleasing to your eyes.

 

 

 

we need to do more, much more.

We need to do much more about people like you running around. You're a massive detriment to our species, more than all the overweight people on Earth put together. Honestly if people like you didn't exist the human experience would be so much better.

 

lol just realised stu is arguing against happiness. kinda hard to argue that you aren't royally f*cked up.

There's no need for me to repeat myself again, but gym class as a kid, recess, playing outside, playing sports.

 

Oh my God, as someone who used to hold people like you over toilets and push them down the stairs, I can tell you it has nothing to do with weight and everything to do with you being an insufferable nerd.

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Mr_Rager

Being overweight is a detriment to the spieces. If everybody was overweight we'd be a very different society, or maybe not "overweight", but obese. Stu isn't pro self harm, like what the f*ck, unless I'm reading that wrong, forgive my simple mind. I also doubt he's pro bullying or whatever, it seriously is a health epidemic. It kills people. Ruins lives. Awareness to how unhealthy it is should be at an all time high because obesity is at an all time high.

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Clem Fandango

Being overweight is a detriment to the spieces

It isn't. Not in any way. How many track runners do we need?

 

 

 

Stu isn't pro self harm

lol yes he is.

 

 

 

It kills people. Ruins lives

I guarantee you fat phobia has killed ten times as many people. Most of whom aren't even overweight.

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Mr_Rager

So fat phobia has killed more people than obesity, and most of those people who are killed by fat phobia aren't overweight. Don't think I agree with that.

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sivispacem

Well, I don't DEFEND it, I just understand why it happens, and why it won't stop.

So, as I said, apologism. But you don't actually understand it. I've already explained the actual reasons for it and yet you don't seem to agree with them. Instead you're defaulting to "well it wouldn't happen unless you were fat" which isn't true in the slightest, because if you weren't they just bully you for something else. The whole point behind it is that it can't be rationalised.

 

Being fat obviously puts you at a social disadvantage.

Tell that to all those overweight politicians, public figures and vastly wealthy people. Yep, they're really put at a social disadvantage by their weight.

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Clem Fandango

So fat phobia has killed more people than obesity, and most of those people who are killed by fat phobia aren't overweight. Don't think I agree with that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_disorder

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Mr_Rager

 

Well, I don't DEFEND it, I just understand why it happens, and why it won't stop.

So, as I said, apologism. But you don't actually understand it. I've already explained the actual reasons for it and yet you don't seem to agree with them. Instead you're defaulting to "well it wouldn't happen unless you were fat" which isn't true in the slightest, because if you weren't they just bully you for something else. The whole point behind it is that it can't be rationalised.

 

Being fat obviously puts you at a social disadvantage.

Tell that to all those overweight politicians, public figures and vastly wealthy people. Yep, they're really put at a social disadvantage by their weight.

 

You know damn well money beats fat in life. If you're rich, f*ck it, be 450 pounds. They wouldn't just "bully you for something else" because when you get thin, you stop caring, because your confidence goes way up anyway.

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Absurdity

...you're such a retard? Jesus, Rusty, I thought you were at least better than that. ;)

 

I am and music (real music, no that iggy azelea sh*t btw) uses 'retard' AKA 'the r-word' all the time: "Ritardando" is to slow a beat.

 

You said before that we live in a gluttonous culture, I would also add to that we live in a sink or swim culture where one has to prevail over the other -which is what i see in the fat acceptance movement. A facebook feed littered with "real men like 'curves' not skin and bones'. Being fat is now 'heroic' because being the hero is the only way you can win in a culture raised on the mythology that good always prevails over bad. so by defacto being thin is the enemy.

 

and no doubt the hero will prevail but its not because we're nicer more accepting people - its because it suits the culture to have its gluttonous consumers and its placid workers. And the result of this will be a bunch socially engineered functional ritardandos .. in a culture of sh*t priorities.

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sivispacem

I really wish you'd post something that vaguely resembled a coherent response instead of a barely intelligible diatribe filled with effectively meaningless buzzwords, nonsensical pseudo-psychobabble and absurd generalisations.

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make total destroy

I really wish Rusty Balls would stop trying to reconcile Marxism with his sh*tty brand of reactionary politics. sh*t doesn't work like that, bruh.

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GTA_stu

We need to do much more about people like you running around. You're a massive detriment to our species, more than all the overweight people on Earth put together. Honestly if people like you didn't exist the human experience would be so much better.

 

I thought you were against bullying? Yet here you are, cyberbullying little ol' me and making this place an unsafe space for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It kills people. Ruins lives

I guarantee you fat phobia has killed ten times as many people. Most of whom aren't even overweight.

 

 

Wew lad, you've gone off the deepend here. Actually... is this just a joke or... I can't even f*cking tell any more. I really hope so, or else you're in serious need of a lobotomy. Or maybe you've already had one. Would explain a lot actually.

 

Alright enough of that, let's get down to it shall we, although I don't know why I bother since your idea of a debate is to basically just go off on one, repeatedly, throw ad hominens about like shurikens, and you pretty much just make a personal attack on someone and lightly season it (or sometimes not at all) with an actual argument. Anyways:

 

No I'm not against happiness. Just because something makes someone happy it doesn't mean it has to be supported. Heroin addicts could very well be happy being heroin addicts, doesn't mean it's good for them or that you have to blindly stand by whilst they harm themselves and society. Happiness shouldn't take precedence over all other things all the time, or always trump everything else. Obesity is an issue for society too, not just the individuals, since we foot the bill collectively for the massive health care costs. A healthier society has a lot of other benefits too, like being more environmentally friendly because more people walk or bike instead of driving.

 

No I don't support self harm, and I support fixing the self esteem issues by encouraging people to look after themselves and be healthy, not pretending there's no problem and that everythings fine. You support self harm because you think it's fine for people to damage their bodies just as long as they're happy.

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make total destroy

 

 

 

you think it's fine for people to damage their bodies just as long as they're happy.

Wait

 

Wait

 

Wait

 

It isn't?

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Absurdity

I really wish Rusty Balls would stop trying to reconcile Marxism with his sh*tty brand of reactionary politics. sh*t doesn't work like that, bruh.

 

Heh. funny.

 

Look 'bruh' we humans have always wanted to be nice, at least to our own. That's our humanity.

 

these people are fat largely because of our environment and because of the culture that we are brought up in. And rather than say, "Hey, look, you're out of shape, you might die earlier" Rather than changing things we simply go through the mental gymnastics involved to justify our culture which is what we have always done, weather slavery or whatever, we found the mental gymnastics required to be complicit in our culture. You are being complicit right now in encouraging sht priorities and poor health.

 

Before you scrunge your face up, ask yourself why these people are overwight in the first place and ask yourself what it really is that you are justifying when you are encouraging them to remain overweight. Then ask yourself who is the reactionary.

Edited by Rusty Balls

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sivispacem

In all fairness, why the f*ck is it anyone else's business? I mean smoking, excess drinking etc are social harms as they directly or indirectly affect others, but you stuffing yourself full of pasty isn't going to give me heart disease. And as long as we tax it all to a high enough degree that we can afford the inevitable increased healthcare cost burden, who cares?

 

There are far more morally repugnant things we should address. Like Rusty's skewed social commentary. Perhaps we should institute an emergency tax on people buying Ayn Rand novels and Nietzsche?

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make total destroy

What do you care what other people do to their bodies? Do you go down to the bar on friday night and slap drinks out of people's hands, or beat up cigarette smokers? Like, seriously who. the f*ck. cares.

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Hayduke

You're taking this a tad bit to seriously. See I'm talking from my life experiences My expectations, what I think will happen, what logically will happen. Not necessarily what's right or wrong. SHAMING IS NOT RIGHT. But that doesn't mean you've cracked the case McGruff, you'll NEVER EVER BEAT HUMAN NATURE. EVER. It will never happen. You can fight against people being mean, but they'll continue to treat you like sh*t. So you sink or swim. You stay fat and bitch about thin privilege on the internet or you exercise. God help the people with diseases that are fat because of thyroid issues or the medication they have to take.

 

I'm obviously talking about someone fat by the way, sivispacem. Pardon me for not being more specific. There's a lot of them. It doesn't start at Walmart size, either. It's not a coincidence that my family (which has been overweight for generations) has a life expectancy of around 60. I heard Melch say, "I've nearly lost people due to fat phobia", well I've lost people due to them being fat in the first place.

What you think will happen =/= what will happen. Irrespective of this, you are wilfully missing the point. What others may or may not do is irrelevant to how social policies such run. As for the little diatribe about human nature, human nature is reflexive which is kind of why we're all still around. Humans will react differently subject to circumstance. Given enough education and social conditioning, it's not unreasonable to suggest that people can react to issues such as obesity in a cohesive and helpful manner. First of all however, you have to understand that what is an acceptable body weight and desirability of that body is purely down to personal interest and circumstance.

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Absurdity

In all fairness, why the f*ck is it anyone else's business? I mean smoking, excess drinking etc are social harms as they directly or indirectly affect others,

 

 

You're bathing in apathy. Rotting from the inside out.

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sivispacem

You're bathing in apathy. Rotting from the inside out.

Unlike you, I'm not a utter c*nt.

 

I'm certainly not apathetic to the sh*t pouring from your mouth.

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