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Dingdongs

Eating disorders/body image/fat acceptance

Recommended Posts

DEALUX

Wow you've extrapolated a lot from that statement. I'm not saying fat should be the new standard of beauty.

 

Okay, so we should consider nobody beautiful? Or do we just keep idealising thinness? What exactly are you saying because this is all meaningless nonsense to me?

I wasn't saying that you were saying that. Just stop using objective statements when you talk about things that are subjective.

 

We don't have to pretend that people are automatically beautiful. Beauty is subjective and it's not something that is necessary in order to enjoy life or to contribute to society. It has no intrinsic value. Also, by saying that people are beautiful by default it gives them false hope. The rest of society is not going to suddenly feel attracted to fat people even if you were to somehow completely remove the stigma associated with it. It's also easier to lose weight than to change what society thinks.

 

It's worth fighting against people who just insult fat people or say hurtful things to them for no reason but we shouldn't have to pretend that we are all automatically beautiful. A good way to start the conversation would be to mention how beauty is subjective. I feel like most people can't tell the difference between an opinion and a fact (subjective versus objective facts).

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make total destroy

Yo Kristian, you're still not an anarchist.

No amount of time will change that,

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Otter

A good way to start the conversation would be to mention how beauty is subjective.

 

...and how utterly unimportant it is as to your worth as a human being

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Mr_Rager

 

A good way to start the conversation would be to mention how beauty is subjective.

 

...and how utterly unimportant it is as to your worth as a human being

That is unrealistic. If you're attractive you have an advantage in life. So it is part of your worth as a human being. Kinda sucks that life's like that...but it is, unfortunately.

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DEALUX

You do have an advantage but being fat or ugly (according to most people) won't necessarily stop you from achieving anything.

 

If I were fat I would either try to lose weight or just accept it. One way or another you can still enjoy life.

 

 


Yo Kristian, you're still not an anarchist.
No amount of time will change that,

Actually I used to consider myself one but holding ideal political views is not very useful. I also hate labels because people ruin them and they sometimes limit your ability to think rationally by identifying too much with them.

Edited by Kristian.

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Fonz

I've yet to understand how refraining from abusing people for their body equates to promoting obesity or whatever, especially when you consider that most aren't actually obese, but mildly overweight. I guess treating overweight people like humans is a radical notion now. What someone does with their body is their business entirely and they shouldn't have to withstand mistreatment perpetrated under the mantra of "promoting a healthy lifestyle". I get that some are genuinely concerned, but the crowd who explicitly abuses overweight people couldn't care less about promoting any form of health—they're just trying to find a pretext for their sh*tty attitude. And sexual attractiveness, seriously? Do you choose to treat people properly based on 'f*ckability'? That idea alone is genuinely messed up.

Since we're keen on anecdotal evidence: my best friend was rather chubby when I met him. I never, ever insulted or ridiculed him for it. One day he mentioned that he was worried about it. I simply told him to implement some fixes here and there and, more importantly, not to obsess over it or let this issue take over his life. Four years later, he's fit and healthy. No abuse necessary (not that I would ever do that anyway). Anyone who pushes the notion that abuse is a healthy form of encouragement is simply an insincere asshole looking for self-aggrandizement at the expense of others.

 

 

I know who my enemy is. While you wander aimlessly, impotent, chirping anything that you think goes against the status quo.

2yzldnt.jpg

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Otter

 

 

A good way to start the conversation would be to mention how beauty is subjective.

 

...and how utterly unimportant it is as to your worth as a human being

That is unrealistic. If you're attractive you have an advantage in life. So it is part of your worth as a human being. Kinda sucks that life's like that...but it is, unfortunately.

 

 

Maybe if you consider breeding to still be a measure of a person in the modern world. Spoiler alert: It's not. ;) And I'm not talking about advantages. Being an ugly fat white male is still more advantageous than being an attractive, fit, black woman. But this is a reflection of society, not a person's value as a human being.

 

 

 

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Mr_Rager

Well I certainly don't agree with your comment in fat white guys being more valuable than an attractive black girl. That's neither here nor there. I do however know that a lot of people in this world are shallow. Looks matter. You can tell people otherwise, but they won't listen. They should. But they won't.

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Otter

Nononono, that's the exact opposite of what I expressly said. I said they enjoy far different levels of advantage. Imagine both of those folks in a bank looking for a loan - tell me who's gonna walk out of there happy. G'head. ;)

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Mr_Rager

Nononono, that's the exact opposite of what I expressly said. I said they enjoy far different levels of advantage. Imagine both of those folks in a bank looking for a loan - tell me who's gonna walk out of there happy. G'head. ;)

Imagine both of those folks apply to the insanely Liberal colleges everywhere, who's getting in, Jim Fatwhiteguy or the strong independant black womyn?

 

I'm being a dick at the end I know so forgive me. But I feel as if we're all at a disadvantage in some ways.

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Aquilus

 

Nononono, that's the exact opposite of what I expressly said. I said they enjoy far different levels of advantage. Imagine both of those folks in a bank looking for a loan - tell me who's gonna walk out of there happy. G'head. ;)

Imagine both of those folks apply to the insanely Liberal colleges everywhere, who's getting in, Jim Fatwhiteguy or the strong independant black womyn?

 

I'm being a dick at the end I know so forgive me. But I feel as if we're all at a disadvantage in some ways.

 

 

 

Nononono, that's the exact opposite of what I expressly said. I said they enjoy far different levels of advantage. Imagine both of those folks in a bank looking for a loan - tell me who's gonna walk out of there happy. G'head. ;)

Imagine both of those folks apply to the insanely Liberal colleges everywhere, who's getting in, Jim Fatwhiteguy or the strong independant black womyn?

 

I'm being a dick at the end I know so forgive me. But I feel as if we're all at a disadvantage in some ways.

 

Yeah, that's true. Shoot even the guy who's pretty wealthy and goes to the best damn university in the country is at a disadvantage. More of a social disadvantage in terms of a lot of people not liking this person because he/she is more well educated or just all around better than them. Shoot I'm at a intellect disadvantage because Math is worse than hell itself.

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Abel.

 

 

Wait, Canadian Badass, was Ruebens against nature? You're confusing trends for natural attraction. And believe it or not, trends are somethin we have a serious amount of control over.

 

Well I have my own theory here, and I don't think it is a controlled trend, but actually quite natural to find fatness unattractive right now.

 

When we were primitive hunter gatherers, fatness wouldn't have been seen as attractive, because it would have meant you'd be weaker and slower and worse at hunting. A strong athletic build would have been most desirable because that would be the best for ensuring the survival of the species. Then when we started organising into advanced societies and civilisations, fatness was actually seen as attractive because it meant you were rich and could provide. Although even then, excess fatness was rare to be seen as desirable, it was usually being a bit plump that was most desirable.

 

Now in our modern western societies, everyone is capable of providing plenty of food, so being fat is not a status symbol any longer and not seen as desirable. Now, people are attracted to wealth, or a good personality or good looks, or a combination. Fatness is seen instead as exemplifying a lack of self control and discipline, and from a purely aesthetic point of view, it is not regarded as being attractive. Fatness was usually found attractive for what it represented, not what it was. What is aesthetically pleasing is obviously subjective, as a general principle, but some things are more naturally more objective. And fatness, objectively speaking, is less aesthetically pleasing. As I said, when it has been widely seen as desirable it has been for what it represents, not for what it is.

 

Chubby was the standard of beauty in the West until like 130 years ago.

 

 

See this just disingenuous. Sure, chubby might have been the standard, but that's certainly not grossly overweight. You have to understand here Mel that, one, I have nothing against fat people I'm just concerned for their health, and, two, that there's a stark difference between being a bit chubby and being grossly overweight.

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sivispacem

See this just disingenuous. Sure, chubby might have been the standard, but that's certainly not grossly overweight.

Actually, full on obesity was a symbol of economic and social prowess. The fatter you were, the wealthier you were perceived to be.

 

there's a stark difference between being a bit chubby and being grossly overweight.

Except, in the attitudes of the kind of people who publicly ridicule people who are overweight, there really isn't any distinction based on actual body mass or healthiness. It's done solely on perception of size, rather than on whether or not that person is a healthy weight or their actual state of health. So if anyone being disingenuous, it's you.

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Abel.

Regardless, I'm not calling for ridiculing the obese. Openly ridiculing people is just rude and insulting. Indeed, I hate to judge people for most things.

 

I'm just saying that we shouldn't take a complacent attitude on what's an endemic public health issue.

 

As for historical standards of beauty, I don't think the West has ever revered extreme obesity here. I'm not talking about the mildly or typically overweight, which was seen as a sign of status in some Western societies, I'm on about the severely obese, the prevalence of which has increased only in recent years. Again, I resent these accusations that I'm being "fatphobic"; many people go through periods of being over or under weight at some point in their lives, it's a normal thing. The issue resides with those who are permanently and grossly overweight at the detriment of their personal well being and health, as well as the well being and health of their children. We need to teach kids how to make healthy meals in schools and ensure that sports are enjoyable and accessible across society. At the end of the day it's not my place to judge people for how they look or how they conduct their lives, but I can't help but have a bit of concern for children who are obese and are doomed to lives of poor health and low confidence.

Edited by Total Failure

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Dingdongs

I just wanted to leap in quickly; Irv, you said 1% of the population have disorders that make weight management difficult; I just wanted to assert that this is completely wrong. Just to pick one common disorder off the top of my head, 5-10% of women struggle with PCOD which can make weight management nearly impossible. This is just one disorder - weight management is never as simple as we would like to believe and is demonstrably more difficult for a significant portion of the population.

 

This all goes to reinforce the notion that we need to remove the value judgement from the argument completely.

just for the record, I said that number I threw out represents those who both have disorders that impede weight loss as well as lack the resources to treat those disorders.

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Absurdity

I've yet to understand how refraining from abusing people for their body equates to promoting obesity or whatever, especially when you consider that most aren't actually obese, but mildly overweight. I guess treating overweight people like humans is a radical notion now.

 

 

 

fat people arent as human as thin people ....... wait for it.....

 

part of what it is to be human is to move, to function. when we say someone is out of shape what we are saying is that they are out of a shape where they can move more comfortably to do these human things.

 

rather than understand as to why-we make jokes about the functional retardation of white people in this culture - white men cant dance/jump (basically they cant f*cking move). In a (white) culture where it is considered success to do as little physical labor as possible the result of this is that you will be left functionally retarded- and talk of what is f*ckable aside, a culture will find beautiful whatever it is that serves that culture. So if it is useful for us all to be thin; we will consider being thin beautiful. And if it is useful for us all to be out of shape and less mobile (because all we are needed to do is to sit in a box all day filling out forms) then we will consider it beautiful to be out of shape - and it will come at the expense of functionality, moving and all of these human things.

Edited by Rusty Balls

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sivispacem

fat people arent as human as thin people ....... wait for it.....

Since when did you, of all the delusuonal and backwards individuals to unfortunately grace the earth, become the arbiter of what constitutes human?

 

I'm of the opinion your views are an affront to humanity, but despite knowing that's an opinion shared amongst most vaguely intelligent people I'm not enough of an egomaniac to think that gives me to the right to arbitrarily dismiss you as less than human.

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Mr_Rager

I think what he's saying is that being fat makes you worthless. Don't use that soundbite against me, what I mean is, they can't work at the same level as a person physically fit. They aren't as attractive, which is an advantage in life. Being fat makes you less of a person in this shallow society.

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sivispacem

You've clearly not had a conversation with Rusty before. He literally means they have less empirical worth as human beings and goes to great lengths in explaining his twisted rationale for justifying that conclusion.

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Absurdity

You've clearly not had a conversation with Rusty before. He literally means they have less empirical worth as human beings and goes to great lengths in explaining his twisted rationale for justifying that conclusion.

 

You're such a retard. Moving. Making sounds. All of these things are clearly fundemental things to being a human. And so should be encouraged and celebrated. Rightfully championed.

 

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sivispacem

 

You've clearly not had a conversation with Rusty before. He literally means they have less empirical worth as human beings and goes to great lengths in explaining his twisted rationale for justifying that conclusion.

You're such a retard. Moving. Making sounds. All of these things are clearly fundemental things to being a human. And so should be encouraged and celebrated. Rightfully championed.

 

Except they're clearly attributes that could be assigned to any animal. They don't make you human, they're reasonable indicators that something is alive. Or are you saying that cats and lizards don't move or make sound?

 

The speed at which one can/does move is utterly terrible as an indicator of the value of their humanity. I'm not exactly a marathon running but I bet I can outrun Steven Hawking, chair or no chair. Does that make me fundamentally "more human" than him?

 

I really have difficulty quantifying some of the things you say. You're either an elaborate troll or genuinely incomprehensibly stupid and suffering from a serious case of Dunning-Kruger.

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Absurdity

And to be alive is the definition of being human. no moral judgments are being placed. moving, making sounds these are fundamental things of being human, otherwise they wouldnt be there, by subtracting them you are taking away human things - taking life away.

 

Melc was that a serious offer about giving me your wood? I'm maybe interested. Hit me up on PM.

Edited by Rusty Balls

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make total destroy

 

 

 

You're such a retard. Moving. Making sounds. All of these things are clearly fundemental things to being a human.

 

 

 

I guess my f*cking car is human.

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Otter

...you're such a retard? Jesus, Rusty, I thought you were at least better than that. ;) don't make me hide your posts in the future - drop the bullsh*t in d&d.

 

As we have illustrated above, at length, fitness can be celebrated without condemning the pudgy, schlubby, chubby, or rotund. It's not a binary situation where we either celebrate one or the other at the expense of the other - that's not logical in the least.

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sivispacem

And to be alive is the definition of being human.

No, it really isn't. It's an attribute of being human, but simply to be alive doesn't make you a human any more than it makes you a courgette.

 

moving, making sounds these are fundamental things of being human, otherwise they wouldnt be there, by subtracting them you are taking away human things - taking life away.

So, geckos are more human than human tetraplegics and locked-in syndrome sufferers. Awake goldfish are more human than sleeping humans.

 

Right, that makes perfect sense.

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Mr_Rager

 

See this just disingenuous. Sure, chubby might have been the standard, but that's certainly not grossly overweight.

Actually, full on obesity was a symbol of economic and social prowess. The fatter you were, the wealthier you were perceived to be.

 

there's a stark difference between being a bit chubby and being grossly overweight.

Except, in the attitudes of the kind of people who publicly ridicule people who are overweight, there really isn't any distinction based on actual body mass or healthiness. It's done solely on perception of size, rather than on whether or not that person is a healthy weight or their actual state of health. So if anyone being disingenuous, it's you.

 

If you're overweight, your state of health is in decline. It's just the truth, man. It hurts your joints, it hurts nearly every organ in your body, increases risk for cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes. It makes your veins smaller, making it harder to pump blood throughout your body. You are always tired because of having a poor diet. Your skin goes to sh*t because you get sweatier, more oily. More importantly though, it affects you mentally. Your confidence goes down to zero because you can't do anything at the same pace as thin people. You're quicker to tire, you're in constant pain when trying to keep up with thin people, it's just terrible.

 

I think shame should come into play when you're fat. It's your choice, but it's a destructive choice - one that'll hurt you in the long run, and it should be treated as such. If someone bullies you about it (like they did me) you might want to take a hint and try losing some weight.

 

Another thing I find interesting is how fat people now are a sign of being poor. Junkfood is dirt cheap. Most fat people I've met aren't really rich. Most families with fat children aren't rich. It's weird how things change so quickly.

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Hayduke

 

I think shame should come into play when you're fat. It's your choice, but it's a destructive choice - one that'll hurt you in the long run, and it should be treated as such. If someone bullies you about it (like they did me) you might want to take a hint and try losing some weight.

Shaming people for being overweight definitely helps them lose weight immediately and in no way perpetuates a continuing cycle of low self esteem and overeating. I have a similar method for people who are unattractive. I'm like 'hey ugly, get your f*cking face fixed you make me sick' and wham bam they book straight in for plastic surgery and come out looking like Johnny Depp. Anything to help the cause of what I decide is subjectively good for the species, based on spurious cultural rules and my own entitled ignorance.

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sivispacem

If you're overweight, your state of health is in decline.

Erm, no it's not. I'm technically just overweight, at ~87kg and 6'1". And I'm in a better state of fitness than I've been in years. My sister's husband is seventeen stone and 5'7", and I'd like to see you tell him he's overweight without you being quite literally turned into sausage links. There's a certain degree of correlation between clinical obesity and poor health, but the tools which are commonly used to categorise people as 'overweight' or not are incredibly blunt and inaccurate. Plus there have been several recent studies that show people who are overweight but not to the point of clinical obesity don't experience tangibly more health-related issues than people who are supposed to be the correct weight.

 

And none of this, nor the fact you personally managed to turn it around as a result of being bullied, even comes close to constituting a reason why harassment of people because of their weight is acceptable.

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Mr_Rager

 

 

I think shame should come into play when you're fat. It's your choice, but it's a destructive choice - one that'll hurt you in the long run, and it should be treated as such. If someone bullies you about it (like they did me) you might want to take a hint and try losing some weight.

Shaming people for being overweight definitely helps them lose weight immediately and in no way perpetuates a continuing cycle of low self esteem and overeating. I have a similar method for people who are unattractive. I'm like 'hey ugly, get your f*cking face fixed you make me sick' and wham bam they book straight in for plastic surgery and come out looking like Johnny Depp. Anything to help the cause of what I decide is subjectively good for the species, based on spurious cultural rules and my own entitled ignorance.

 

You're taking this a tad bit to seriously. See I'm talking from my life experiences My expectations, what I think will happen, what logically will happen. Not necessarily what's right or wrong. SHAMING IS NOT RIGHT. But that doesn't mean you've cracked the case McGruff, you'll NEVER EVER BEAT HUMAN NATURE. EVER. It will never happen. You can fight against people being mean, but they'll continue to treat you like sh*t. So you sink or swim. You stay fat and bitch about thin privilege on the internet or you exercise. God help the people with diseases that are fat because of thyroid issues or the medication they have to take.

 

I'm obviously talking about someone fat by the way, sivispacem. Pardon me for not being more specific. There's a lot of them. It doesn't start at Walmart size, either. It's not a coincidence that my family (which has been overweight for generations) has a life expectancy of around 60. I heard Melch say, "I've nearly lost people due to fat phobia", well I've lost people due to them being fat in the first place.

Edited by Canadian Badass

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sivispacem

Define "fat" in a way that isn't entirely subjective.

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