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Killatomate

offroad driving, hillclimb?

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Killatomate

Are there any offroad mods yet? i loved offroad driving in GTA SA. But the physics back then were a big letdown. GTA IV barely had any offroad area. GTA V has so much more offroad area than GTA IV but the offroad driving is even worse. Would be a shame to let all that go to waste. There are so many mountains waiting to be explored. Here is a short video demonstrating what is possible with GTA V physics. There is certainly potential for awesome offroad mods. Bicycles, dirtbikes, sandbuggies, trucks...?

btw, are there any racetracks in GTA V?

 

 

 

edit: latest Baja Bug physics

 

 

edit2: i created a homepage for my offroad mod: http://www.moddb.com/mods/realistic-driving-v

Edited by Killatomate

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Killatomate

imagine a hillclimb mod, where you are given a certain vehicle and then have to make your way UPHILL through waypoints until you reach the top of a mountain. of course the route would be offroad and very challenging :D

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Cadde

To answer your question, i have yet to see anything resembling a race track in V. There are plenty of places where one could make a race track and there might be some offroad course someplace if my memory serves me right.

But as far as an actual paved race track... Nope.

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hesselgren

whats different about that video? only looks like there is less traction, not more realistic or anything? i dont see no improved suspension articulation or difflocks

 

if you want to discover the mountains semi-realistic, grab a sandking or rebel and go. trust me i have done allot of rock climbing and sh*t, streetcars, supercars will never go where my sandking has been.

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Cadde

@hesselgren, "What's different?"

 

... well, traction is one of the biggest arcade crap handicaps in the game to begin with!

And if you think the vanilla setup for the sandking or rebel is "semi-realistic" then the releases he is going to be making won't be for you clearly.

Myself i think of all vehicles, doesn't matter which, as arcade console kiddie setups for players who doesn't care or have never been near a car before in their life.

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Killatomate

problem is that changing drive bias in GTA to 50/50 doesnt yield the same result as 50/50 in real life. modders need to understand that GTA physics are very simplified and only an approximation of real life. in order to get the handling as close to real life as possible you need to understand how the parameters interact / affect each other and use that knowledge to cover up the weaknesses of GTA physics. turn your back on "real numbers", they will not have the desired effect. most modders still think that "Tv" is 'topspeed' and then they force the car's topspeed number in there which they found on wikipedia. they couldnt be more wrong. its not the numbers what matters, its the result. results matter.

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Cadde

Which is why i won't touch any other handling mod but yours. I find it especially amusing seeing how so many people claim "realism" just because they can take a turn going sideways but they completely forget about acceleration and braking distance, not to mention being able to go up a curb which i couldn't in another handling mod for IV. *bang*, dead stop.

 

EDIT: That said, i wouldn't mind an alpha release to at least have something to keep me going in GTA V. I just don't have the experience you do and i am sure you have some rough values set across the board already that are halfway there already for most vehicles.

Edited by Cadde

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r0llinlacs

problem is that changing drive bias in GTA to 50/50 doesnt yield the same result as 50/50 in real life. modders need to understand that GTA physics are very simplified and only an approximation of real life. in order to get the handling as close to real life as possible you need to understand how the parameters interact / affect each other and use that knowledge to cover up the weaknesses of GTA physics. turn your back on "real numbers", they will not have the desired effect. most modders still think that "Tv" is 'topspeed' and then they force the car's topspeed number in there which they found on wikipedia. they couldnt be more wrong. its not the numbers what matters, its the result. results matter.

 

 

The results were fine. Some trucks turned out different than others, but for the most part they work. From what I've experienced so far, V isn't the same as IV as far as modding vehicle handling. I could do whatever I wanted in IV and the results were exactly what I set the values but you're right, V needs testing and the values aren't exact to real-world turnouts, I'm guessing it's simply because of the possible variables when upgrading vehicles in the shops and partially upgraded NPC vehicles driving around and the spreading of handling date over multiple files is what make results inconsistent, but I don't know.

 

Also, when I said 50/50 I was lying, I said it for simplicity's sake. Most of them I set around 55/45 60/40 depending on the results. I said 50/50 just so people get the idea.

 

 

EDIT: After fooling around some more, Ive noticed some trucks almost seem to have locked axles (IE both wheel on each side spin) while others seem the opposite (IE only one wheel on each side spins or the wheel with the least traction). GTA IV had AXLE_R_SOLID, AXLE_F_SOLID, are these still present in V?

Edited by r0llinlacs

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Killatomate

i found a race track and i also finshed Baja Bug physics. video in 1st post.

 

 

Baja Bug with racing upgrades. imagine this in co-op mode with friends.

 

Edited by Killatomate

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Cadde

Yes, that's the offroad one i was talking about.

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TbirdMan

I am waiting on the carcols.ymt and carvariations.ymt to be cracked and am going to try to do an offroad upgrades mod as part of a larger drive-train mod that will include AWD/RWD/FWD conversions. I admit I am not very experienced in tweaking the handling.meta. Killatomate, any tips for working out AWD biases? FWD and RWD are obviously easy.

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TbirdMan

 

problem is that changing drive bias in GTA to 50/50 doesnt yield the same result as 50/50 in real life. modders need to understand that GTA physics are very simplified and only an approximation of real life. in order to get the handling as close to real life as possible you need to understand how the parameters interact / affect each other and use that knowledge to cover up the weaknesses of GTA physics. turn your back on "real numbers", they will not have the desired effect. most modders still think that "Tv" is 'topspeed' and then they force the car's topspeed number in there which they found on wikipedia. they couldnt be more wrong. its not the numbers what matters, its the result. results matter.

 

 

The results were fine. Some trucks turned out different than others, but for the most part they work. From what I've experienced so far, V isn't the same as IV as far as modding vehicle handling. I could do whatever I wanted in IV and the results were exactly what I set the values but you're right, V needs testing and the values aren't exact to real-world turnouts, I'm guessing it's simply because of the possible variables when upgrading vehicles in the shops and partially upgraded NPC vehicles driving around and the spreading of handling date over multiple files is what make results inconsistent, but I don't know.

 

Also, when I said 50/50 I was lying, I said it for simplicity's sake. Most of them I set around 55/45 60/40 depending on the results. I said 50/50 just so people get the idea.

 

 

EDIT: After fooling around some more, Ive noticed some trucks almost seem to have locked axles (IE both wheel on each side spin) while others seem the opposite (IE only one wheel on each side spins or the wheel with the least traction). GTA IV had AXLE_R_SOLID, AXLE_F_SOLID, are these still present in V?

 

 

strModelFlags includes options for AXLE_F_SOLID and AXLE_R_SOLID. In addition, the "NOTILT" appears it may have been changed to "TORSION"

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Cadde

Killatomate, if you don't mind me asking... What are you using to edit your handling.meta file? A custom app suited to the purpose, text editor or XML editor?

 

I am trying to code my own editor because all others are lacking some features i wanted, hence why I am asking since you might have a better option?

 

EDIT: Features i am looking for and am planning to implement in my own...

 

  • Merge - load several handling.meta files and merge into single file. (easy)
  • Multi edit - Change value on several vehicles at the same time. Absolute, relative, multiplicative etc. (easy)
  • Real time edit - Update values in game memory in real time, hence no restart required. (hard) (Yes, i know there's a tool for that already... It's slow and brutish)
  • Documentation/Assistance - Tooltips/text/help explaining what is what and how it affects the vehicle in question. Assistance such as formulas to convert from "real world" to "game world" values to the best of it's ability. Sort of guesstimating what values would be right for a vehicle with specific RL characteristics. (sorta hard/tedious and maybe pointless/wasteful)
  • UI - Of course the editor would be easy to use and quick to work with. Key bindings for the most common settings etc. Visualization of vehicles properties such as wheel base and weight distribution. Perhaps coupled with previous point, showing a guesstimate animation on how vehicle might behave in game. Such as estimated time to 100 kph, estimated braking distance/force, traction related such as "how hard can i turn before over/understeer" etc etc.

Possibly other things... Got something that is somewhat going the same direction?

 

If i keep on working on my own I will release it open source. If anyone want's to help then i would be happy to accept. C#

Edited by Cadde

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Killatomate

i am using Notepad. because its simple and its.... Notepad :D

 

but i will need better tools if im going to make a handling mod. restarting the entire game for every little tweak is a pain. i need a tool that allows me to quickly inject changes into memory.

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TbirdMan

 

 

problem is that changing drive bias in GTA to 50/50 doesnt yield the same result as 50/50 in real life. modders need to understand that GTA physics are very simplified and only an approximation of real life. in order to get the handling as close to real life as possible you need to understand how the parameters interact / affect each other and use that knowledge to cover up the weaknesses of GTA physics. turn your back on "real numbers", they will not have the desired effect. most modders still think that "Tv" is 'topspeed' and then they force the car's topspeed number in there which they found on wikipedia. they couldnt be more wrong. its not the numbers what matters, its the result. results matter.

 

 

The results were fine. Some trucks turned out different than others, but for the most part they work. From what I've experienced so far, V isn't the same as IV as far as modding vehicle handling. I could do whatever I wanted in IV and the results were exactly what I set the values but you're right, V needs testing and the values aren't exact to real-world turnouts, I'm guessing it's simply because of the possible variables when upgrading vehicles in the shops and partially upgraded NPC vehicles driving around and the spreading of handling date over multiple files is what make results inconsistent, but I don't know.

 

Also, when I said 50/50 I was lying, I said it for simplicity's sake. Most of them I set around 55/45 60/40 depending on the results. I said 50/50 just so people get the idea.

 

 

EDIT: After fooling around some more, Ive noticed some trucks almost seem to have locked axles (IE both wheel on each side spin) while others seem the opposite (IE only one wheel on each side spins or the wheel with the least traction). GTA IV had AXLE_R_SOLID, AXLE_F_SOLID, are these still present in V?

 

 

strModelFlags includes options for AXLE_F_SOLID and AXLE_R_SOLID. In addition, the "NOTILT" appears it may have been changed to "TORSION"

 

Did some testing, Until model editing AXLE_R_SOLID, AXLE_F_SOLID are gona be problematic. There are suspension parts on the independant suspension vehicles that don't behave right when converted to solid axle, resulting in parts clipping through the car.

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minion33088

I am currently working on improving the off-roading abilities of all 4x4 vehicles. You can modify the center of gravity, horsepower (transmission stat, how much power the wheels get), how the torque is split between front and back, how the traction is split between front and back, how much of a suspension lift you want, as well as how much travel you want the suspension to have. You can also modify multiple aspects of the traction, which is where more off-road vehicles suck.

 

spinninall4.png

 

Capture.png

 

Right now I am trying to increase tire size through the vehicles.meta file but they end up "floating"...

 

bigtires.png

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Cadde

You can't just scale the wheels/tires. You have to increase the actual model dimensions too. Or somehow attach the bigfoot wheels to the vehicle.

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hesselgren

@hesselgren, "What's different?"

 

... well, traction is one of the biggest arcade crap handicaps in the game to begin with!

And if you think the vanilla setup for the sandking or rebel is "semi-realistic" then the releases he is going to be making won't be for you clearly.

Myself i think of all vehicles, doesn't matter which, as arcade console kiddie setups for players who doesn't care or have never been near a car before in their life.

yes its more realistic than taking a supercar up a mountain, thats what i meant. i did not mean that GTA is realistic in that way. if i want realism i will either play spintires, or walk out to my chevy blazer and drive to the woods.

 

but tbh i dont see whats different other than traction, thats why im asking whats different.. if there is a way to change suspension flex, that would be a nice thing. also adding manual shifting..

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b0ssVenom

Gotta say, as soon as "the bosses" from OpenIV get us a way to create custom maps, I will go for the offroad tracks creation if you want :).

 

EDIT: If you have any request or suggestion for anything, feel free to contact me.

Edited by Bone34

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JoeM

Could the suspension at LSC be modified so it raises rather than lowers certain 4x4's? Always thought that would have been better than lowering.

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b0ssVenom

So I decided to do a little start, nothing fancy so far, just beginning of a dirt track:

 

 

 

trsXaT0.jpg

 

8UkECXn.jpg

 

 

 

 

I'm also planning a trial course and another offroad track.

Edited by Bone34

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Killatomate

would be great if we could make Racing Missions, similar to the Flight School. Things like AI race, timetrial, A to B rallye, hillclimb (set of checkpoints leading uphill). there are great places in the existing map for that. is there any way to create missions already (creating races with checkpoints and such) ?

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minion33088

You can edit suspension height and wheel travel in the handling.meta file.

Edited by minion33088

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minion33088

You can't just scale the wheels/tires. You have to increase the actual model dimensions too. Or somehow attach the bigfoot wheels to the vehicle.

 

 

Does anyone know how to edit the models? Or steal them from another vehicle?

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TbirdMan

 

You can't just scale the wheels/tires. You have to increase the actual model dimensions too. Or somehow attach the bigfoot wheels to the vehicle.

 

 

Does anyone know how to edit the models? Or steal them from another vehicle?

 

That functionality is not implemented into things like Open IV yet. Models can be viewed, but AFAIK not edited.

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Killatomate

new video with updated Baja Bug physics:

 

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Ozu

I commented on your video, but I hope your mod doesn't disable the mid-air adjustement and car-flipping?

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badchriss

Looks like my favorite GTA V car wil get even better :D

I`m exited to see what you will come up with,great Master of Handling.

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Killatomate

i finished creating proper physics for every single vehicle in the "offroad" category. here is some random video about the Insurgent, whatever that vehicle is good for:

 

now that vehicles have proper grip and climb ability we need some sort of "hillclimb" mod that makes you drive through challenging checkpoints while climbing a mountainside.

Edited by Killatomate

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