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Alvarez

Paying and get paid for mods?

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vashts1985

Hope everyone will understand this is a bad bad development for the mod scene in general.

And I hope nobody will participate in making paying mods or in buying them.

 

- Nobody will share information any more because it can hurt there own earnings

- People will not help each other any more if they know the other will make money with it

- Some mod teams will certainly end in quarrels about money

- People will steal another work and slap them behind a pay-wall

 

Its just bad for the mod community!

Good open documentation, open-source (if possible), collaboration and respect,... thats the best way a mod scene can flourish.

 

 

 

problem is people arealdy do this. modders charging for thier work is not new. this is just blowing up becasue skyrim+valve.

 

 

and on a side point addressed to the thread, the split is 25/30/45 to modder/valve/bethesda. if you want to complain about the split, you are looking at the wrong party. this does not surprise me as bethesda has always been somewhat of a wolf in sheeps clothing concerning modding of thier games.

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ElianBG

Steam comunity servers are down??? sh*t is about to go down

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TrojanNemo

Short version: I don't think mods or custom content in general should ever be paid for. I don't have a problem with modders having a donation button, provided that nothing is donation exclusive or tied to receiving a donation.

 

Long version:

I have been modding since GTA III on PC. I used to go by the username Max_Pain in those days, and until recently I get e-mails about my Max_Pain's Modded GTA III and Max_Pain's Modded GTA VC, which were total conversion mods made possible by picking the best of the best and combining them together and putting them into a nice package. I never asked for money, never asked for or accepted donations. I later found out that the mods were packaged and sold on CD in Russia and other countries. I never approved this nor received any compensation for it.

 

Since then I have also created extensive custom content and tools for Rock Band 3 under this user name. I founded the group that to day, is the biggest center for Rock Band custom content. Not only have we not asked for money, we don't accept donations of any kind, don't have ad revenue, don't have any revenue at all. It's all financial losses. We also don't allow exchange of money for anything in our forums.

 

Besides that, I've also been very involved with the Android community and over the years have contributed various things to the community, most recently a tool for organizing smart watch faces on your PC. I again refuse to take donations and don't accept commisions.

 

So, why all of that? Just as a brief example of what I've done over the past decade across various communities, always doing it for the benefit of the community and never expecting, demanding, nor accepting donations or charging for anything I've created for the communities. Because if you do it for the love of it, there is no place for money. If you do it for money, if it becomes a business, you'll quickly lose the love that got you started on it.

While I'm far from being rich, I have a steady source of income from my day job and I don't have a financial need for donations. I understand others might, so I'm not opposed to donation buttons. But restricting content behind a pay wall just hurts the community, and I do not support that.

Edited by TrojanNemo

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c39687

lmao, who would actually pay for a mod... go get a real job if you need money

 

i have no beef though if someone wants something specific and they request you make it and offer to pay. But to sell your mods like that one guy did for IV is lame. Go panhandle or something but keep your greed out of the modding scene. Modding is to make games better, not to make profits.

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Silent

Modding is to make games better, not to make profits.

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Stoney0503

I personally think modding should be free, it's like what happened to cheats and unlocks, they got turned into DLC and micro-transactions, lets not have mods turn into the same fate.

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brendan62

This is a very big deal in the Skyrim Modding Community of which im part most modders abhor the idea of paid modding knowing what will follow as developers start to overcharge for the tools needed to mod the game its just the tip of a much bigger iceberg.

As its just another attempt to make money on the backs of people,

Note im a modder from way back not a consumer of mods.

Modding is free should always be free and when it ceases to be that will spell the beginning of the end for game modding

 

The modders that got involved in being paid should be ashamed to be involved with such a thing.

The negative feedback towards those few that did is extreme.

But its been removed anyway and the idea cancelled although the damage it did to the modding community will stay.

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Alvarez

I'm glad, too, that Valve has taken down the pay function for mods. This experiment was a failure.

 

...So, in the end, the modder does only what he wants, huh?

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Osho

As a gamer, I won't pay for mods. Period!

EXCEPT for "a huge undertaking, with new missions, new characters, new weapons and equipment, and all that other good stuff. A full-out UNOFFICIAL expansion pack(s) for the original game" .. like the.. "T2X: Shadows of the Metal Age" for Thief II.

And mods like, the Misery Mod, Ghost Recon Heroes Unleashed Mod, Baldurs Gate Reloaded, The Dark Mod, etc.

These mods took a lot of years, and efforts, for just ONE BIG FANTASTIC OFFERING!

They definitely deserve to be paid. Guess what? They didn't ask for it. Still continued to focus on something without asking anything because they are passionate about the game they loved so much, and wanted to share with the community.

It all started as a hobby and they did during their spare time, gradually, putting piece by piece, to arrive with an amazing product.

I have seen donations coming from the fans without even asking. It comes naturally out of respect. Not by setting a price tag upfront.

I am not against modders getting paid but games like Skyrim offer lots of modding potential and thus it becomes difficult to pay for individual stuff. It becomes a costly affair for the fans. Its just impossible to enjoy the games with price limitations to pick and choose the best by paying extra.

By setting up a donate button without a minimum price but still keeping it for free, one can easily donate whenever financially capable and possible, rather fix a price, no matter how minimum they charge, becomes a difficult situation, especially when you multiply with the number of mods on sale.

Just ridiculous, to say the least. We should never support PAID modding, at all. No matter what the developers, or publishers, try to soften the entire system in future.

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Jenia

I only hope there will be no GMOD paid addons. Ridiculous. Anything else, I had enough with TF2 hats.

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Bxx

I was talking about this to a friend yesterday.

 

My stance at this is that the creator of the mod should only charge for it if he did the work from scratch, if he designed a car or a gun or whatever out of nowhere, took his time to perfect his creation he might want to get something out of it. Even if then he should just ask for a donation if someone would like to support his work. I mean don't get me wrong but I see mod creation as a hobby, as something you do because you enjoy the game and you would like to create things to enjoy it further and not to get rich.

 

But the thing is that most of mods are usually conversions from other games like guns from COD, cars from forza, textures from many games... I don't think this is right, I know converting a thing is still a lot of work but you're basically just adapting someone's creation, you shouldn't be selling that, it's basically the same as buying frozen pizza from walmart, putting it in the microwave and then throw it on a box and sell it as your own pizza.

Edited by Bxx88

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ajm96

I found it very interesting how the community reacted to Valve and Bethesda's release of this system and found all of the responses to be very circle-jerky and unproductive. It feels like the Skyrim community was just the wrong one to launch this in. Maybe it should be done on a new game with a fresh modding scene to avoid this response.
I have always been a valve fanboy and that may be blurring my vision in this, but it is very hard for me to see what caused a response like this. It's very unexpected based on Valve's past projects with the workshop.
All discussions I have seen on this have been just massive circle jerks with the same points being brought up over and over and nothing constructive actually happening. I'm going to play devil's advocate and bring up these points for a hopefully constructive discussion:

  • All workshop sales net the content creator 25% of the profits, and no one seemed to care before (to my knowledge at least, this is how I've heard dota 2's workshop items work).
  • It's been quoted that Bethesda takes 45% while Valve takes 30%. No one was angry when valve is taking 75% of workshop sales, but when they are taking 30% of mod sales it is "too far" and makes them "money-whores".
  • People seem to ignore the cut that goes to Bethesda seems morally and legally right if you plan to make profits off their property. It should be more profitable to go develop your own games rather than to leech money off a company by selling mods of their game.
  • No one has been able to successfully sell mods previously because it requires a business relationship with the game developer of each game you plan to sell mods for (for legal rights to sell the mods) and a successful store. This is a difficult service which steam easily provides.
  • The low 25% cut as well as the $100 minimum pay-out discourages smart modders from selling their mod. Selling a mod that doesn't warrant it will decrease its popularity and the chance of selling $400 of mods is unlikely and not very profitable for the work.
  • If this test by valve had succeeded, it would have shown the rest of the gaming industry that mods can be profitable for the publishers and the developers. Mods and user created content would start to become part of the industry rather than stay niche consumer hobby like they are now. Companies would see that mods have the potential to be profitable and start developing their games with modability in mind. This is something that should hit close to home for all of us here. Who knows, R* may come around in a few years and make a game that supports modding instead of going to efforts to end it.
  • Economics is a thing. If a mod goes up for sale and is easily replicable or shouldn't have been sold in the first place, people will request and create replicas of the mod for free or a reasonable price. I cannot imagine this system becoming Farmville. Enough modders who actually develop are smart enough and love the game enough to not let money ruin it for themselves or others.

 

Here's the controversial part:

  • Payment for mods can encourage professional modding teams that offer professional quality mods that are complete gameplay overhauls (i.e. Black Mesa and Falskaar). It can be argued that this would risk the community, organic, open-source route that many mods take, but I believe most modders will still stick to this for most projects out of tradition.
  • If modding does become a part of the industry and is made easier in the process, it will become immensely more popular. More people would start playing and developing mods. According to Bethesda, only 8% of Skyrim's community has ever installed a mod. This is one of the most modded games to date, and those numbers are pathetic. The only downside is we would lose the small tight-knit community that many of us love, and the hipster mentalities would soar.

Obviously the system has some weak points and needs modifications. There should be some approval system (maybe some sort of mod greenlight program?) and moderation system implemented among other things. From what I can tell this seemed to be like a market test from Valve and Bethesda and they planned on tweaking it until it the system was acceptable, but it seems the community has circle-jerked them into oblivion without a bit of constructive criticism or the thought of the positive side to the system.
These are just most of the positives that came off the top of my head when I first heard of this system. I'd love to have some actual constructive conversation with someone on it, because I feel if we don't actually think about this and find a way to make it work out, we are missing out on a big opportunity to improve modding overall.

Edited by ajm96

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ash1ey

If you create mods (or other content) for GTA V and would like to receive donations for them, please consider submitting them to gtapics.com

 

We have an option for our "authors" to receive bitcoin donations if an address is entered in your user profile.

 

Paypal donations may be added at later date if we can find a decent plugin to work with wordpress.

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Voodooman

Its clear as sunny day that Valve and Bethesda just wanted to monetize mods and all of their attemts to defend this just a cover up story for turning mods into paid DLC of which they got 75%, and not like the paid DLC 1st party does that needs money for production, those third party DLCs would not cost a penny to Valve and Beth, and they decided to have no legal responsibility for mod content and no technical support - its a clear fraud scheme that consider both mod maker and end user as stupid things.

 

Mod maker must be stupid to accept such unfair share of 75% go to companies and only 25% to modder, mod maker must be stupid to no realise that despite most of profit taken by companies, all legal and support duties are left alone on modder's shoulders, mod maker must be stupid to think that he can really make some profit of these 25% and mod maker must be stupid to no realise that for taking money from users he must support every freaking user and must update mod until all of the major bugs fixed. Mod maker must be stupid to no realise that he by making his mod paid he accepting to be a real slave of Beth and Valve.

 

End user must be stupid to think he really supports mod maker and not realize that he just a milky cash cow for Valve and Beth and only supports slavery of mod makers and cash grab of these companies. End user must be stupid to no realise that mod makers are not realised yet their responsibility for taking money, and that companies tries to have no responsibility at all, and that if anything is broken end user most likely will have hard time getting any support.

 

I am myself was in modding scene since the Doom wad days (started from making my ugly sprites in paint and cube shaped maps, but then i mostly shifted to "fix flaws of games" department) since the time i was kid, im kinda like about 20 years in that, modded all of Id software games until RAGE and Monolith games until FEAR 2, modded Duke Nukem 3D, modded all of GTA games. Manhunt, Max Paynes, Resident Evils, Silent Hills, Psychonauts, Tomb Raiders, Crysis, a lot of UE3 and Cryengine and Unity based games (like Fable Anniversary, State of Decay, Dreamfall chapters) and a lot of other games, and i never ever asked money for this, i did that to help people to get rid of flaws and bugs original developers refused to fix, despite they must, and most of modding community did the same thing out of altruism.

 

There was some rare cases of paid mods like SIms 2-3, but that was a shame of modding community and self contained thing (that mostly existed because target audience of sims kinda similar to cellphone users).

Yeah, some of us asked for support via donate buttons, but the principle was "get mod for free, and if you want and can you can pay anything you want to support creator, but if you dont want or cant you dont have to do that", i personally never ever had any donate buttons, but i must confess that sometimes when people asked me to do mod for games i did not own, i suggested them to gift this game to me so i can easilly access it files, but mostly people gifted stuff to me via steam without asking me, just to say thanks for my mods and fixes, and thats was fine.

But what Valve just did, that, if they aint canceled this crap. could spread greed and selfishness across modding community like a cancer and would corrupt minds of many modmakers who will start to make mods out of greed, and not out of wish to help people, that will ruin modding scene forever and others would start doing that. Thats why im strongly agains any ideas to make mods paid.

 

If Valve really only wanted to support mod makers and not grabing 35% of cash from every item on workshop, all they have to do - add "DONATE IF YOU WANT" button, with options to transfer money from steam wallet to steam wallet or other prefered methods modder selected (without exposing information to public ofcourse), and by giving another option - tranfer any item from steam inventory as donation.

 

Also Beth already got their money for making this game, Valve got their cut from publishing this game on steam, valve and beth has nothing to do with making mods, so they should not get any cut at all.

 

Anyway modders should not sell mods, this will make modding community greedy and corrupted, just like every company that shifted from creativity to pure capitalism and now just exist to make money and not the good games!EA anyone? Ubisoft? Activision? THose companies was once a good companies that actually tried to make a good games, until corporate greed corrupted them and turned into cash grabing machines - you dont want that to happen with modding community, otherwise mod makers will start thinking how to make good money and not a good mods, any decision will be driver by profitability and not by quallity or usefullness of mod.

Money kills creativity! Capitalism must die at least in modding scene!

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