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The Migration Crisis


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  • 2 weeks later...

http://gtaforums.com/topic/839475-hidden-racism-through-vocabulary/page-5

 

Nobody denies that minorities can be frequent perpetrators of crime;

 

Every time someone points it out MTD comes up with some contrived narrative about how bad white people are. Or he comes up with some irrelevant passive agressive remark, so because I'm skeptical about small sampled sexual violence questionaires, I 'scoff at sexual violence statistics'. I don't. There are crime statistics. And they point out immigrants are overrepresented in these crimes, significantly. This is not an ideological matter. This is plain fact.

 

the difference is that sane people interpret it according to the economic realities these groups exist in, It seems logical that a minority community that finds itself in economic dire straits and faces discrimination in major sectors of life like employment will become destitute and therefore resort to crime.

 

Which is mostly true, but it is the mainstream liberal progressive narrative. The problem with this narrative is that it has an underlying assumption that immigrants want to conform to white society to become as succesful as white people economically, because modern mainstream politicians believe deep down everybody would like to be white. As immigrant populations have become bigger this has increasingly proven itself untrue, and what has happened is immigrant populations othering themselves/ being othered by white society and creating a parallel society where they are socioeconomically stagnant compared to 'white society'. Liberal democratic society thus causes parallel lower class societies that then form an underclass of a different cultural background, which is stagnant and does not conform to the rest of society, which causes cultural tension, alienation and crime. So there's more to it than just inequality of opportunity and economic situation. It's more complex than that.

 

 

The thing is, the liberal right proposes a different interpretation: that somehow, say, "Roma culture" is to blame for these issues, which, if we're being frank, is little more than a whine about foreigners being unpleasant or whatever (never mind why these groups resort to petty crime). There's a reason why nobody takes the phrase "regressive left" seriously: it's based on opposition to "SJWs who excuse every crime of minorities", a group that doesn't actually exist to any meaningful extent. Another reason is that the ones who rant about the "PC-gone-mad-regressive left bigots" are usually Sam Harris cultists who cream their pants every time their beloved "West" decides to invade some random nation or back a genocide here and there.

 

This group that excuses crime does exist. There was (supposedly?) a major intended cover up in Cologne. Then there is MTD who has to point out how bad white people are in a contrived manner every time someone brings up social issues caused by immigrants not conforming to our liberal democratic societies like we think they should want to.

 

I've never heard of 'regressive left'. I agree Sam Harris sucks.. I agree the clash of civilizations narrative is a bunch of horsesh*t. You know what I'm like on foreign policy probably. We agree there.

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Every time someone points it out MTD comes up with some contrived narrative about how bad white people are. Or he comes up with some irrelevant passive agressive remark, so because I'm skeptical about small sampled sexual violence questionaires, I 'scoff at sexual violence statistics'. I don't. There are crime statistics. And they point out immigrants are overrepresented in these crimes, significantly. This is not an ideological matter. This is plain fact.

I didn't see that. MTD acknowledged that minorities commit crime as well, but he added the economic analysis of why that is. The part about white culture was a jab at the racist-lite narrative in which you blame their "culture", but refuse to acknowledge the problems with "white culture" in the same way. It's hypocrisy and dressed up bigotry.

 

Which is mostly true, but it is the mainstream liberal progressive narrative. The problem with this narrative is that it has an underlying assumption that immigrants want to conform to white society to become as succesful as white people economically, because modern mainstream politicians believe deep down everybody would like to be white. As immigrant populations have become bigger this has increasingly proven itself untrue, and what has happened is immigrant populations othering themselves/ being othered by white society and creating a parallel society where they are socioeconomically stagnant compared to 'white society'. Liberal democratic society thus causes parallel lower class societies that then form an underclass of a different cultural background, which is stagnant and does not conform to the rest of society, which causes cultural tension, alienation and crime. So there's more to it than just inequality of opportunity and economic situation. It's more complex than that.

You're arguing against a point I didn't make. I didn't assume anything, I just played off of statistical data showing the wage gap between natives and foreigners, which of course does cause the alienation you mention. Institutionalized bigotry (manifesting itself economically) combined with every day bigotry are major factors of alienation and lead to being "othered", as you put it. None of that is ever separate from economic context, however—very few things are, in my view. Cultural tension is certainly an interesting thing to consider, but that too finds its explanation in bigotry and prejudice, the same mechanisms that lead to underpaid work, then causing the harsh economic realities I mentioned. These things are all linked of course, but I skipped the social causes for it since it's fairly uncontroversial.

 

This group that excuses crime does exist. There was (supposedly?) a major intended cover up in Cologne. Then there is MTD who has to point out how bad white people are in a contrived manner every time someone brings up social issues caused by immigrants not conforming to our liberal democratic societies like we think they should want to.

The cover-up was supposedly orchestrated by the police, which was most likely trying to hide its incompetence. That's not a political issue, though, nor is the police left-wing in any way—it's more about a group of idiots trying to suppress news of their failure than anything to do with PC gone mad. As for conforming to our society, that's hard to do when large parts of the population discriminate against you and employers use you for absurd exploitation maneuvers. Besides, if our liberal society were what it purports to be, there wouldn't be any need to "conform". It isn't, obviously, since liberalism is and always has been sh*t, but that's a different matter. Exposing the huge problems with our own society seems pretty fair when you have a group of bigots using isolated incidents perpetrated by a minority of immigrants to portray all foreigners as criminals or whatever, but refuse to see the crimes their own beloved Western culture (whatever that means, really) commits on its own, never mind the fact that it's also that same society that is responsible for most of the crime going on among destitute minorities. It's also hilarious to see those right-wingers backpedal when the logic no longer suits their narrative.

 

Yeah, it's a bullsh*t term used by clueless new atheist f*ckwits and Islamophobes to browbeat anybody who doesn't accept the racist characterizations of minority group's "culture" by accusing them of being apologists for crime, PC, 'SJWs', etc. People who take that concept seriously need to lay off the Sam Harris books and start interacting with the real world.

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The "regressive left" doesn't actually exist. It's just a slur used to attack anyone who attempts to contextualise the rise of Islamic Extremism (in particular, but choose your poison really) with cultural subjectivism or historical analysis, or even more objective analysis based on the pretext that it's not a fundamentally religious entity but a political one. It also, as far as I can tell, falsely assumes that any attempt to explain actions is tantamount to defending them, which mean the whole concept is basically a massive straw man.

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I can think of a couple Marxist-Leninist parties that defend ISIS out of some twisted notion of 'anti-imperialism'. That's probably the closest thing that exists to a so-called 'regressive left'.

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Yeah, those folks claim to be communists, but they also have a weird fetish for Assad, Putin, the fascists in Donbass and other tinpot dictators. The newspaper of a small Maoist party here even described the Bataclan massacre as an anti-imperialist insurgency. It reminds me of this:

156xoyd.jpg

The hilarious part is that they're keen on analyzing the actual political motivations for Western interventions and disregard the empty rhetoric, but when a ""socialist"" state does it, the only thing that matters is their intentions and all material analysis is gone. 10/10 "Marxism"

Edited by Black_MiD
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I know I'm a month late to the party but I came across that video of some Woman being dragged into a Cologne subway during that New Year Eve rape thing, savages.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKu6Y7FtgF4

 

Do the people in Germany even like them over there or is it something they have to put up with?

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Do the people in Germany even like them over there or is it something they have to put up with?

 

I would say before the crisis and during it, so basically up until last summer/autumn, it was roughly even. But even for those in favour of taking in the migrants, most didn't want anywhere close to a million to be taken in. I'd say it is a very small minority that are fine with the current situation. It's definitely something they're having to put up with, after Merkel by herself decided this is what should happen. She's acted like a dictator, forcing it on her people against their wishes. And she's even got Facebook censoring anti migrant posts, under the guise of "hate speech".

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The only thing these types of incidents expose is the amount of willful ignorance, recklessness, and just how deep in dream world the far left is at this point. Those cultures the migrants are coming from represent the very definition of literally everything the far left stands to oppose and yet they are incapable or just too stupid to see any threats beyond racism from white people.

All this cultural relativism "All cultures are equal!" and knee-jerk labeling of any who disagree with them as racist and hateful have made these very things possible.

 

I hear they're offering classes on "how to respect women" now in Belgium. A step up from telling women to change their behavior to suit them, I guess.

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Merkel by herself decided this is what should happen. She's acted like a dictator, forcing it on her people against their wishes. And she's even got Facebook censoring anti migrant posts, under the guise of "hate speech".

It's funny you should mention this, as I don't use Facebook and therefore wasn't aware of the censorship applied in Germany, only to come across the following video this afternoon which was apparently removed from FB for that very ultra-bollocks reasoning:

 

 

I hear they're offering classes on "how to respect women" now in Belgium. A step up from telling women to change their behavior to suit them, I guess.

Well, hey, at least it's progressive.
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Even if you don't agree with the sentiment it's ridiculous that Facebook took that down. There's nothing inflammatory there, she's just expressing her views (which, being that she's a young girl who seems genuinely terrified, I don't blame her for doing). Meanwhile genuine examples of bigotry and incitement remain on Facebook.

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One of the comments made on her vid I found to be quite profound:

 

This is a real shame. If you look at the psychology of young women... they usually never know anything about politics or care about world events. You have to do something REALLY BAD for a 16 year old girl to go out and make public political statements like this. She's not talking about things that happen on some news program. She was motivated to make this video because these things happen to her in real life on a daily basis.

It's visibly clear in her movements and voice that she is genuinely scared, and for her to have her concerns removed from Facebook by the German government crooks under some pretence of "hate speech" is subsequently making me - as a grown man - quite scared too, if not f*cking angry.
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It annoys me John because I know what hate speech is and that's not it. I support taking in refugees, and she didn't specifically mention Syrian refugees anyway, but something is clearly very wrong here. We've managed the influx very badly and done an awful job integrating refugees. Yes, migrants bear a degree of culpability in integrating themselves and being grateful to their host country, but it's obvious we need absorbtion centres, immediate and comprehensive language instruction and lessons on civics, history and culture. I hate to beat the dead horse again but if Israel can take in millions of people and make them productive, assimilated citizens within a year or so, there's no reason we can't do it here. I firmly believe in maintaining one's culture, identity, religion and language (as long as you learn the language of the host country too), but accosting women in the street, preaching hate and denying the Holocaust are not part of that. At all. The fact that people were berating that girl about not being Muslim is disgusting given that Salafism is something that so many like them are fleeing from right now.

 

 

Jews living in the diaspora lived by the mantra saying that one should abide by the laws of the country you inhabit. I firmly believe that most migrants do this and are grateful for sanctuary in a welcoming country, but we're obviously seeing a (worryingly significant) minority of young men from migrant communities who are not acting in this way. I'm not going to support deportations, but the idea of covering up instances of sexual abuse or preventing a young woman from expressing her fears is awful. Refusing to deal with these instances properly is an insult to native Europeans and the many good people from migrant communities who live amongst them.

Edited by Failure
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Well, hey, at least it's progressive.

 

People are so caught up with their ideologies and tolerance they fail to see or are otherwise completely indifferent to any danger. All they see is "if you're against mass immigration and the free flowing movement of all people you're racist and have no right to judge them nor their culture"

 

As they spend every other waking moment bitching about discrimination and "rape culture" in the West and go completely silent when blatant rape culture as well as misogyny, racism, homophobia, etc. are flowing right into the boarders.

 

Edited by Gay Tony
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People are so caught up with their ideologies and tolerance they fail to see or are otherwise completely indifferent to any danger. All they see is "if you're against mass immigration and the free flowing movement of all people you're racist and have no right to judge them nor their culture"

No, you have no right to judge a foreign culture because you're a reactionary and frankly, blatantly ignorant of the wider context in which events take place. We can have frank discussions about problems in minority communities, but nobody who isn't right-wing twat would come to the conclusion that we have to close off the borders to an entire region of the world and leave them in the sea to drown, or have the military slaughter them as they run over the border.

 

What happened to the woman in that video was brutal and heartbreaking, but it happens everyday in the West on university campuses, and it happens so often on military bases that Western governments basically declare the problem insurmountable. The reason we aren't baying with condemnation is because we're already baying with condemnation and you expect us to go out of our way to condemn immigrants explicitly. In a rational, gender equal society nobody would feel free to rape, and that is our concern.

 

You see Muslims, but they aren't all Muslims. They are all however, men.

 

And I laughed when you said 'far left.' There is nothing far left about the UN, Amnesty International or the German state who are all in agreement that you can can get f*cked.

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Hue. I must've struck a chord.

 

Just more statements about how rape, murder, crime, etc. take place everywhere and by any culture (which no-one is even denying) regardless of the amounts coming from each culture/group/country we're all the exact same.

 

I suspect you're angry because you're trapped in somewhat of a paradox where these migrants simply can't be defended or ignored now since at least some of them are a detriment to the groups you've been protecting in the West for ages, and now are essentially throwing them under the bus for the time being.

 

It's useless to have issues from the West being highlighted every damn time. We're not talking about the West, we're talking about migrants coming into the West and what they're bringing into it.

Edited by Gay Tony
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If by these migrants you mean the ones committing criminal acts, then you're right, they can't be defended and no-one here is defending them. They are criminals and should be dealt with. What the left is trying to say is that criminals are criminals regardless of their visa status. By taking in refugees, it is a given that there will be some people to abuse the system, just like abusers exist in any country, in any system. And given data showing that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes and that refugees haven't really increased the crime rates in Germany, blaming all refugees/immigrants/Muslims for the acts of a few of them is, well, stupid.

 

Doesn't help that people dig up old videos of completely different events to make their point, and when caught on it, noone on their side rectifies their mistake, because Muslim refugees are all criminals anyway.

 

If by these migrants you mean all migrants because they are all criminals and hellbent on destroying the west, then that's that.

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Just more statements about how rape, murder, crime, etc. take place everywhere and by any culture (which no-one is even denying) regardless of the amounts coming from each culture/group/country we're all the exact same.

That is not the point I'm making. Are you being purposefully obtuse? I'm saying that sealing off the West so that no sexism can get in is an absurd idea, and it is. If Australia closed the borders to the British there would be a huge decline in people getting hit with bottles, lives would be saved. Sounds great until you have to round up everyone who sneaks through with non-existent resources.

 

 

I suspect you're angry because you're trapped in somewhat of a paradox where these migrants simply can't be defended

The overwhelming majority of refugees can be defended, are you having a laugh? I'm incapable of defending Syrian people as a group because they're so awful?

 

 

 

It's useless to have issues from the West being highlighted every damn time. We're not talking about the West, we're talking about migrants coming into the West and what they're bringing into it.

We aren't addressing your position in the abstract, we're addressing you personally and calling a hypocrite.

 

 

 

since at least some of them are a detriment to the groups you've been protecting in the West for ages, and now are essentially throwing them under the bus for the time being.

Most leftists are women in my experience, but okay.

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e: accidentally posted prematurely, still finishing the post

 

Some gems from Norwegian facebook pages(side note: it is very difficult to translate how incredibly bad their norwegian is):

2a89b1dacbd1330ef48492bfd848b123.png

"When I read blog posts like this, it gives me a very bad taste in my mouth and I think that if I see a "feminist" being [sexually]assaulted on the street, regardless of whom, I'm tempted to look the other way. Is that what you want?" - to blogger who wrote less-than-positive words about "Odins Soldater"(Soldiers of Odin(rofl(so historically ignorant))) which is a sh*tty group of "vigilantes", from their support page:

12661840_758539364289645_686879930961241

The uncensored name is a local hairdresser who rose to infamy after denying muslims service.

"I only believe in a full cleansing at this point. [it] has gone too far."
"I also wish for a coup, where we get the military and the police on our side, who can cleanse out immigrants with mass deportations. This is the only way to reclaim our country, but at this point in time it is only a dream. Therefore it's best to stay realistic"

 

Reactions to a hairdresser who gives refugees free haircuts:

12644698_758475414296040_777912179414440

 

Dark red/burgundy comment: "she will be raped, and she's asking for it too... f*ck her, she is not worth sh*t"

Light blue comment: "I wish that this whore gets raped so hard that her [intestine] ruptures. Such traitors won't wake up before they get a big and massive dick forced into them, involuntarily"

Purple comment: "pig whore"

 

Gotta look out for the dangerous views on women that comes with brown people! Thank god us white folk have it figured out.

 

 

"Why not use mosques for refugees?"

12644889_757987911011457_121679971232965

Gray: "shoot the pigs and blow up the mosques"

Dark red: "make a massive microwave out of the mosques! 'pop pop pop'"

Purple: "Naturally - if they are Muslims, they should be together - so that it is easier to get them, when the people has had enough of the pollution we don't want in a 'christian' society."

Sand: "Blow up all mosques.they do not belong in our society :) neither [the mosques] or the [non-humans] who use them. These are used by uncivilized monsters who only recruit people to ISIL so it is time to blow them up and use the spots on which they are built for something more sensible which serves the country and the people something better than to house satan as they now do, these mosques"(it's even harder to make sense of in norwegian)

 

Uncensored name because he used to be a political candidate:

12669539_757879414355640_664789137809530

 

"Friends of the father land <3
DISCLOSURE!

To mean that the white race is threatened, is not Nazism but a TRUTH!

Wanting to preserve the comprising is a human trait that we call being conservative. Applauding one's own downfall is called IDIOCY!
Nazism is when you look down upon other races like muslims do, and call them sub-humans because of it. The difference is massive"

 

Messages sent to a woman who does volunteer work with refugees:

12650972_757210437755871_645481747803179

 

"Holy f*ck, that someone can become an insane whore like you is crazy. Do you stand at the border wishing everyone with a dick welcome? You're in big f*cking trouble, you sick c*nt"
"I see a picture of you with a dark [person]?"

"You are a sick c*nt. Can you handle 5000 illegal border passengers per month? You should kill yourself, sicker and hornier than you is impossible"

 

 

Comment on an article about a male volunteer/activist who received multiple death threats:

c5bb198a911c5647fa11cf15bd61f15a.png

 

"Well deserved that threats ,hope someone rapes and kills your children.. you should have run off with the swine you helped.

 

I have more. Lots and lots and lots more.

Isn't it pretty f*cking ironic? Those filthy brown people will introduce anti-women views and violence. Oh, you want to help them integrate? I hope you get raped and killed you f*cking c*nt. Additionally, the phrase "our women" pops up all the f*cking time.

What causes this INTENSE hate(and love for misinformation)?

 

I know there are people in here that agree with wanting to preserve "our" race. I'd love to hear f*cking why?

Edited by Marwin
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I know there are people in here that agree with wanting to preserve "our" race. I'd love to hear f*cking why?

 

lol. Why the heck not? Why would you want any race to vanish? There are plenty of reasons to want to preserve variety and diversity. Why do people try preserve and protect as many animal species as possible? Why do people try to preserve as much history as possible? Why do people try preserve works of fiction? Why do people try preserve languages? Why do people preserve anything? If you can understand why anyone might try and preserve pretty much anything, then you should be able to understand why race or ethnicity should also be preserved. If everyone in the world just looked the same and more or less had the same culture, because at some point everything became homogonised in one global way, I think that would be pretty f*cking boring and quite sad.

Edited by GTA_stu
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Are you suggesting that brown people and white people in the UK are different species entirely? By saying what you said there's an implication that we as humans are not defined by the culture in which we live, but rather by the color of our skin. You also seem to suggest that if everyone were the same race, we'd see the abolition of cultural diversity. Why? Is culture bound by race?

 

e: grammar

Edited by Marwin
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To be honest, I'm a bit confused by the entire situation. On one side, I'm a caring "semi liberal" (what's the best term to describe it?) that felt extremely pity of those refugees, but on the other side, I'm extremely pissed by the NYE rape cases, and the fact that Daesh is basically using a free pass to enter EU by blending in with the refugees.

 

I'm kinda torn atm. I wanted them to get better lives, but Merkel absolutely needs to halt refugee flow temporarily, especially after the Paris attacks.

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Are you suggesting that brown people and white people in the UK are different species entirely?

 

Yes. That's clearly what I'm saying.

 

My point was a world where everyone is the same race would likely come about due to homogenisation of the globe, and this would also probably mean homogenisation of culture too. Not like there'd be exactly just 1 culture, but it wouldn't be anywhere near what it's like today.

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