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GTA_stu

The Migration Crisis

Recommended Posts

 dice

Well you can't clasify all of them as being in need when certain groups activly refuse help and resort to violence to fit their agenda.

 

Don't get me wrong, everyone needs to be helped and integrated as best as possible, but skipping safe countries, like Slovenia or Croatia because they are 'too poor' and general rioting isnt exactly helping their cause.

 

 

Croatian police couldn't stop migrants on border with Serbia. Now they are going towards Slovenia. Slovenia announced that they will close their borders but how succesful will they be?

The borders aren't exactly closed, just heavily regulated. Refugees with paperwork can enter freely and everything is apparently going by the schengen agreement book, officials here say. There are still illegal crossings which is to be expected since we cannot really deal with any remotely large mass of people, International train lines between Slovenia, Croatia and Serbia are closed until further notice though, with Serbia being critical towards Croatia for closing their border crossings a few days later, after Serbias been helping them for 4 months.

 

And Hungary is apparently extending their border fence towards Croatia now

Edited by dice
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Der_Don

 

I am all for cutting our conrtibution payments to the EU, as long as other countries don't want to take any accepted refugees that are already within the EU borders.

You Germans think that Europe is you house and the rest of the countries are your maids where you can do what you want with them. It has always been like this. That's why you act like bullies with the rest of the countries "You either obey or we sink your economy". Funny because you hypocrites didn't pay the full debt after WWII

 

We fully paid the unjustified and exorbitant WW1-debt, so we presume to not fully pay our WW2-reparations. You mad? And don't think it's Germany against the rest of the European countries. There are more than enough countries in Europe who agree with our approach but don't have the balls to admit it. They're all like "Let Germany enforce the rules and take the blame". We will be Europe's hegemon for years to come. You better get used to it.

Edited by Der_Don
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Stephan90

 

 

 

Because Croatia and Serbia are "below their class" and they believe that Germany is the country where milk and honey flow.

 

The people who come over with boats don't have their own boats. They pay money to smugglers who own the boats and who only want to use the shortest route.

I mean in reality that's a grim way to put it but the truth is there really is no money in those countries to pay for refugees.

 

 

Both Serbia and Croatia have signed the refugee convention from Geneva. There is no reason for them to let all people pass. Both are save countries and both should host some refugees.

 

Personally I believe the United States hold at least as much responsibility as Germany in this crisis. And the United States take much too few refugees compared to Germany or Austria or Sweden.

 

It's logistically more difficult to get them to the US since, you know, a large ocean separates us.

 

 

Ahem, no the costs to ship them to the United states are low compared to what it costs to host them at least one year. Actually the Syrians will stay refugees probably for several years. The United States have the biggest and mordern Navy in the world. The United States have four times as many citizens as Germany. The United States could easily take care of let's say 100,000 Syrian refugees. An alternative would be that the United States pay the money to the European countries.

Edited by Stephan90
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Stephan90

 

I am all for cutting our conrtibution payments to the EU, as long as other countries don't want to take any accepted refugees that are already within the EU borders.

You Germans think that Europe is you house and the rest of the countries are your maids where you can do what you want with them. It has always been like this. That's why you act like bullies with the rest of the countries "You either obey or we sink your economy". Funny because you hypocrites didn't pay the full debt after WWII

 

 

I don't know what you implying. Germany registrates all the people who arrive. People who were on the territory of other EU states before. According to EU law they must be registered and apply for asylum in the first country in which they enter the EU. I know that would be unfair. But is also unfair that all of them are send to a couple of countries. Countries which already fund the poorer countries in the EU:

 

What does Spain? When did Spain say, we will help you, we will take some of the hundreds of thousands of people who arrive in Germany? When? Not at all.

 

Germany is the biggest net payer to the EU. And funnily Spain is a net receiver from the EU: And Spain must do nothing for Germany to get the money. The money is gifted.

 

And during the Euro crisis, do you think Germany would lend other broke and struggling countries money without no reforms in exchange? In the treaties it says that no country in the EU can be held liable for the debts of the others. That's what every country signed and everyone knew that. If certain countries don't like it, they can leave or simply print their own money which is a de facto exit. Nobody prevents them from printing their own currency. But expecting to get funded on a regular basis without doing anything in exchange, this is the peak of arrogance.

Edited by Stephan90
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GTA_stu

The fact that BBC refers to it as a 'migrant crisis' rather than a 'refugee crisis' seems BBC is subtly against the refugees. 'Migrants' are people just seeking something somewhere else. 'Refugees' are people in need.

 

Migrant is far more neutral than refugee. All refugees are migrants, but not all migrants are refugees. Migrant is a descriptive term for anyone, regardless of their situation or reason, moving from one place to another. A refugee is someone fleeing war, disaster or persecution. That's a general definition, but the UN convention on refugees and actual legal framework based on accepting refugees, is a lot stricter than that. There are a lot of people coming into Europe that are not refugees, speaking on a legal basis, so calling them all refugees would clearly be wrong and biased. The terminology used here by the BBC is actually one of the few cases where they have been unbiased and neutral.

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WhitePimp

More Muslims will apparently be in Scotland by December. I don't think that will play too well with them being here.

 

It's funny because meanwhile things in Britain like the selling of legal highs and the homelessness problem David Cameron still treats this refugee crisis as first best. I can't see why none of the lefties feel that the PM should be looking after his own country first

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sivispacem

I can't see why none of the lefties feel that the PM should be looking after his own country first

Normal people- as in, people who actually understand the topic, are aware that the two aren't mutually exclusive. You don't have to do one or the other...

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Stephan90

https://www.change.org/p/wir-fordern-das-misstrauensvotum-gegen-frau-merkel-sofortige-amtsenthebung-frau-merkels

 

Some Germans want to impeach Angela Merkel,. Is that possible by German constitution?

 

Democracy in Germany on a federal level means that you have two votes every four years, one for a party and one for a candidate of your constituency. And that's it. The party of Merkel is against plebiscites on a federal level. All other parties in the federal parliament have declared they are in favour of plebiscites on a federal level. But this is only empty promises because if they all voted together they would have the majority to make it possible. That petition is nothing more than a sign against Merkel.

 

Edited by Stephan90
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acmilano

http://www.albawaba.com/loop/ypg-accusing-refugee-tripped-hungarian-camerawoman-petra-laszlo-being-al-qaeda-746366

 

Supossedly, refugee triped by Hungarian camerawoman was in Al-Nusra:

 

 

The Kurdish milita People's Protection Unit (YPG) is accusing a refugee fleeing to Europe of having ties to Syria's al-Qaeda wing Nusra Front, but the asylum seeker has already been in the international spotlight for a different reason.

Last month, a video emerged showing Hungarian camerawoman Petra Laszlo tripping a fleeing refugee running from Hungarian police with a crowd of other migrants. The upsetting video went viral, enshrining the journalist as an example of the worst kind of inhumanity in Europe's escalating refugee crisis, not to mention ending her career.
Public support poured out for the refugee, who was later identified as Osama Abdul Mohsen of Daesh (ISIS) held Deir Ezzor, Syria. Earlier this week, he and his children were welcomed to Spain by footballers from Real Madrid. To media outlets, Mohsen described a harrowing journey out of Syria with his 7-year-old son in the hopes of reaching Europe.
But now the YPG is calling on the Spanish government to take action against the Syrian, who they say has fought since 2011 with various groups, including al Nusra.
In a statement this week, the Kurdish militia said the following:
“Osama Abdul joined the rebel groups in 2011 and committed crimes against civilian minorities, including Kurds."
The statement claimed to have linked a social media account of a Nusra militant with the photo of Mohsen.
But it's important to note, this is hardly the first time parties have accused refugees of being part of militant groups like Daesh and Nusra. On social media, Europe's refugee surge has been rife with claims of asylum seekers not being what they seem. So far, most of those have been debunked.
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Dingdongs

A good chunk of the migrants have probably fought with al-Nusra or AQ Iraq as Sunni insurgents against both repressive Shiite governments. Should that necessarily immeditately disquailify them? I'm not so sure because it's far more complicated than them just being terrorists, i.e. they were fighting a repressive government. That said, I would be weary of welcoming people with those types of Salafi beliefs into Western society

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Dingdongs

Yeah no kiddin'

 

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/646196359809204225?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

...whoops!

 

Btw: Al-Nusra = Al-Queda

Not necessarily. AQ is very splintered and al-Nusra is all but independent right now within Syria though it remains nominally part of the global AQ. Edited by Irviding
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Spaghetti Cat

I wouldn't say splintered, more like diffuse, it's their organizing philosophy. Nusra still pledges allegiance to AQHQ where IS does not. When setting up al-nusra AQ went to great pains to hide their allegiance with the new group, claiming to be 'moderates', hence the previous post with our lousy vetting process. Makes you wonder how well the process is going with the flood of people coming into Europe.

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sivispacem

AQ didn't set up al-Nursa. It's a reasonably coherent alliance of Salafist Jihadi groups including domestic Sunnis, Gulf state citizens, Chechens and North Africans. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's creation was organic but it's not a creation of AQ by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Also there's no such thing as "AQHQ". Al-Qaeda these days is composed of numerous factional groups with little in common other than a shared name and a loose Salafist/Takfiri ideology.

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Spaghetti Cat

It's just that I can never remember how to spell Zalwarhari properly so I used AQHQ as shorthand. But yes AQ did set up al-Nusra at the start of the conflict. They even tried to distance themselves from the fact, but I'd have to find some of those articles if needed. It's been a couple of years so it might take a bit...

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sivispacem

al-Zawahiri, you mean? The whole point of AQ is that they lack any kind of centralised command infrastructure and that the "leader" acts basically as a symbolic figurehead, so the idea of an 'HQ' is basically a fundamental contradiction in terms.

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Spaghetti Cat

Ahh, yes thank you, I just call him 'that asshole'.

 

I don't think that's quite accurate saying that there is no command structure. I agree that they operate on a diffuse spread out pattern, but there are leaders and such. See the back-and-forth between Baghdadi and 'that asshole' Zawahiri. They are both trying to claim that top spot after OBL died of lead poisoning.

 

Anyways, my only point was the lousy vetting process when it comes to some of the so-called moderates.

 

Took a bit, but I found some of the links:

 

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/04/al_nusrah_front_lead.php

 

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/06/analysis_alleged_let.php

 

It's from 2013, so there may be some more up-to-date info out there.

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sivispacem

You're confusing "leaders" and "figureheads" IMO. Violent Islamist groups are typically influenced extensively traditional leaderless guerilla warfare theory as taught by both the USSR and the West. Centralised leadership is strategically detrimental. I suppose a fairly apt analogy would be Ho Chi Minh or Lê Duẩn and the Vietnam War. Both were effectively symbolic leaders who laid out a framework in which the Viet Cong fought, but neither of whom really dictated strategic or operational policy across the fighting groups in any meaningful way.

 

Let's also not forget that the individual in question here was allegedly a member of the al-Nursa front. I don't recall seeing any actual evidence to corroborate the claim and even so, previous affiliation in such a complex conflict doesn't necessarily imply current sympathy. What about those effectively enslaved to fight for IS?

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acmilano

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-david-cameron-says-europe-must-get-better-at-sending-migrants-home-10513581.html

 

 

David Cameron has called on Europe to "do more to return migrants" to their countries of origin, as EU leaders met in Brussels to discuss the refugee crisis.

Speaking with the French President Francois Hollande, the Prime Minister said more action was needed to help those with a genuine claim to asylum from war-torn countries.

But with Britain choosing to opt-out of a divisive quota scheme to relocate 120,000 refugees across the continent and outside the Schengen zone of free movement, Downing Street officials suggested Mr Cameron would focus more on what could be done in countries closer to Syria itself.

 

 

Seems that lot of migrants will be returned home. But it wouldn't be easy considering countries like Sirya,Iraq and Libya basically doesn't exist,and who knows who would control those places after these conflicts ends.

Edited by acmilano

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Spaghetti Cat

You're confusing "leaders" and "figureheads" IMO...

 

Well, I can't really comment on your opinions. If that's what you hold, so be it. All I can do is point out these items and let people make up their own minds.

 

As for 'moderates' defecting to al Nusra:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/24/syrian-defector-from-u-s-trained-force-found-with-u-s-hardware.html

 

Again, my point is simple. If, with $500+ million dollars, the training program can't vet these people properly. How can some border guard or immigration agent be expected to do a better job?

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Dingdongs

 

You're confusing "leaders" and "figureheads" IMO...

Well, I can't really comment on your opinions. If that's what you hold, so be it. All I can do is point out these items and let people make up their own minds.

 

As for 'moderates' defecting to al Nusra:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/24/syrian-defector-from-u-s-trained-force-found-with-u-s-hardware.html

 

Again, my point is simple. If, with $500+ million dollars, the training program can't vet these people properly. How can some border guard or immigration agent be expected to do a better job?

Short answer - there's a human element in place (the agent) and it's a significantly more controlled environment, that is the border or the interior security department headquarters than just sending money to whoever says they hate ISIS and Assad both. Personally I don't agree with arming these rebels, other than the Kurds none of them have shown we can trust them.

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Avskygod0

Refugees my ass, only 20% are actually running away, the other 80% are able-bodied, young men who who want to be welfare leeches. And who is behind all of this? Your greatest ally:

 

O8KwcG.jpg

 

They make soften your heart through the media they own, then send "refugees" to you. sh*t's so far gone, the next few years are going to make the holocaust look funny

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Tchuck

That's really retarded. You're citing a "news" article from 2012, that cites itself as it's source for increasing number of Muslims in Europe in an article from 2010... From a very, veyr dubious website. No major news outlet reported anything like that, and they'd be the first to do so if it was true or relevant.

 

As for the holocaust comparison. Wow. You really have no clue how reality works, right?

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sivispacem

I want to respond but I'm utterly perplexed as to how. It would be like attempting to explain particle physics to a doormat.

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Fonz

Statistics pulled out of one's ass - check

Deliberately choosing a ridiculously isolated and biased statement as a source (outdated too!) - check

Conspiracy theory involving "evil" Jews/Muslims- check

Quip about the Holocaust - check

 

Congratulations, Full Imbecile status achieved!

Edited by Black_MiD
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acmilano

Well,this is rich :blink:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/refugee-finland-demonstrators-kkk-1.3243195

 

finland-refugee-protest-kkk.jpg

 

 

Demonstrators threw stones and launched fireworks at a bus full of asylum seekers arriving at a reception centre in Lahti in southern Finland, late on Thursday, Finnish media reported on Friday.

Between 30 and 40 demonstrators, one in a white robe like those worn by the white supremacist Ku Klux Klan in the United States, waved the Finnish flag and shouted abuse at the bus.

Some demonstrators also hurled stones and let off fireworks at the vehicle carrying 40 asylum seekers, including several young children, Finnish television YLE said.

Meanwhile, a petrol bomb was thrown at another reception centre in Kouvola, also in southern Finland, police said. No one was known to be hurt in the incidents.

"The Finnish government strongly condemns last night's racist protests against asylum seekers who had entered the country," the government said in a statement. "Violence or the threat of violence is always to be condemned."

Prime Minister Juha Sipila this month offered to take in refugees at his home, a move that attracted international attention but also criticism in Finland.

Edited by acmilano

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Abel.

Lone rabbi from Judea-Samaria/West Bank settlement=/=representative of wider Jewish community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Based on your current posting I've no doubt that the Holocaust is already a barrel of laughs for you. I always struggle to understand how people can claim that "Jews run the media" when so much of it ignores Jewish causes and makes a mission of criticising Israel.

Edited by Failure
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universetwisters

I always struggle to understand how people can claim that "Jews run the media" when so much of it ignores Jewish causes and makes a mission of criticising Israel.

Becauze thats what they want u to think with there agenda

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really though, it's like people who think 9/11 was an inside job. Any evidence you show them, it's always staged and they tell you to do your own research.

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