NPC's aim for you on purpose?

[Shadowfennekin]

Of course they aim for me. I got deserted on the highway once and was waiting for cars to slow down for me being in the road..... but NO they sped up I saw them, and I died.

[JustinR512]

I have vast experience both developing and maintaining software, from small applications for one simple purpose, right through to massive applications used across large networks of hundreds of users simultaneously. It is a requirement of my life-long career and livelihood to be able to spot issues with software, identify the causes and determine how to best deal with them (usually before even looking at source code). Because of my many years of experience in this I can tell you, without any uncertainty whatsoever, that the traffic in GTA is *not* programmed to "get in your way". It would take a lot of knowledge and experience for you to be able to understand my reasoning behind it so I won't go into that, as it would be pointless.

 

I will however try to help you understand with an example.

 

Very, very large software companies around the world, companies that are funded by multi-billion dollar industries, are in the process of developing artificial intelligence. This is something that has been happening for many years, but is still an illusive goal. You have to understand how complex something like artificial intelligence is before you can begin to comprehend how far we have to go before we even get convincingly close. Now whilst we're not talking about making GTA capable of having a convincing conversation with us to the point that it could pass the Turing Test, we are talking about the possibility of it being a piece of software that is capable of determining what we are *going* to do (not what we *are* doing) in order to react accordingly.

 

Now bear all that in mind and then consider the fact that we're talking about a computer game made by a comparatively small software company (comparatively small when compared to the companies seeking true AI). And then please, please, consider the fact that since they recently introduced green backgrounds to heist notifications, we now randomly get non-heist notifications also in green. Please consider that and then truthfully tell me that you believe it's possible this game is purposely putting traffic in front of you. I don't see how you can honestly believe the developers could be capable of both those examples. One being ridiculously far-fetched and advanced for a games company, and the other showing them to be inexperienced.

First let me ask if you meant that real AI is an elusive goal, meaning one that's hard to find, or did you mean what you actually wrote, that it's an illusion goal, meaning the goal itself is an illusion or unreal?

 

Regarding looking at what happens and using that to determine if the code is poorly-written...I think it depends on whether you understand what it is, exactly, the programmers wanted to happen. If you know for a fact that the programmers want X to happen, and X isn't exactly what happens, then sure, you can say that the code is not written well.

 

My point is that you don't know for a fact whether Rockstar intended for traffic to be a nuisance or not. Without knowing what their exact intentions are, it's hard to say how well they have--or haven't--accomplished their goal.

 

I don't believe true AI is needed to make a car turn right from the left lane when I'm coming down the right lane. The game doesn't need to know exactly where I'm going. If it sees that I'm coming rapidly down the right lane and am 200 feet from a car in the left lane, it doesn't need to know where I'm intending to be a second later to make that car suddenly turn right into the path I'm in at the current moment. There's nothing intelligent about that, it's just a potshot. It sees where I am and where I'm going at that moment, and decides to try to put something in the way of where I'll be a second later if I keep going the way I was going.

 

Since no especially complex AI is required for what we're talking about in this thread, it isn't so far-fetched to believe it's possible from Rockstar.

 

I think you've just misunderstood what the complaint is. If we were complaining that this game can somehow figure out where a player wants to be, then sure, I'd agree that's beyond their capability. But what we're complaining about isn't anywhere near as sophisticated as that, and the suddenness of what happens lends itself to the notion that it's simply reactionary. It's relatively simple math to look at a moving object's location, speed, and heading, and figure out where it will be a second later of nothing changes. Then the game just needs to make a traffic car move into that spot. And sometimes, the game gets it wrong, because I had different plans. And even when the game gets it wrong, sometimes you can still catch it trying to compensate. Sometimes you see a car start to move one way, to where it calculated I'm likely to go, but at the same time I start doing something different. Something it couldn't anticipate, because as you say, it's got no especially great AI. And when I start to change, I can see the traffic cars start to change, too.

 

This NPC traffic being a nuisance isn't that sophisticated or intelligence and wouldn't be too hard for even Rockstar.

[hsthompson]

It's funny, I can drive around for hours and not have a single collision. It's called 'slowing down at junctions'.

 

People drive around like dicks, and then complain when they have collisions

 

I'm forced to drive nicely in real life.

I'll be f*cked if I'm going to drive like that in a video game.

[hsthompson]

I guess they simulate the real life people who actually do something as stupid as such. Tbh, there are people in the real world who would try to stop you from breaking the speed limits or other regulations by any means necessary.

 

Even seen this on bicycles.. Cranky old motherf*ckers trying to block your path by walking right in front of your bike in a place where cycling is prohibited ... I call them morale guardians, the civilian people who think they are justified to enforce law upon other civilians. I guess I'm just another liberal but I f*cking despise people who think it's their job to make sure everyone else stands in line. Conservative politics already regulating everything, cops and stevies eyeballing you 24/7, don't need a fellow man watching over every turn you take.

 

/offtopic

lol. I'm Conservative and share the same ideas you have. I too hate it when "others" try to make us stand in line. Maybe we should start another political party other than Liberals and Conservatives.

[Furry_Monkey]

<response/>

 

I've explained my experience. I can see the patterns in this game that other people confuse as the traffic purposely being a nuisance. I understand what happens and most of the time it's the players' lack of understanding of the simple traffic flow in the game. Spend a day driving around the city and count every single car that does not get in your way. Also count every car that does, but take note of whether they were moving into a turning lane at the last second, or swerving because they were on a direct collision course with you. Very, very rarely you'll get a car that does just drive across the road for no apparent reason. That is a very rare occurrence, but it sticks in people's heads because it sticks out. It certainly sticks out more than the 100 cars you just swerved around on the freeway, not hitting a single one.

 

Many people (in this and similar threads) have explained that they do not have much of a problem with the traffic. The problems that I have with it I know for a fact - yes, a 100% fact - that it is down to bad programming. How do I know this? Because I have had over 18 months hands-on experience with this game and I understand software, as I explained. I see patterns that I understand and can equate into simple functions. The fact that you cannot do that is neither here nor there, but it is certainly not in any way indicative that I am wrong.

 

I can very clearly see what people are referring to, but I have an understanding of it that means I know it is not traffic that is purposely in the way, but a result of an attempt at making it seem to act realistically, gone terribly wrong.

[LL Cool L]

bottom line they don't aim for you

 

 

/thread

[hsthompson]

bottom line they don't aim for you

 

 

/thread

BULL f*ckING sh*t.

[Sock Dry]

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Astaroth1337/video/785924

Edited July 17, 2015 by Astoroth211

[JustinR512]

 

<response/>

 

I've explained my experience. I can see the patterns in this game that other people confuse as the traffic purposely being a nuisance. I understand what happens and most of the time it's the players' lack of understanding of the simple traffic flow in the game. Spend a day driving around the city and count every single car that does not get in your way. Also count every car that does, but take note of whether they were moving into a turning lane at the last second, or swerving because they were on a direct collision course with you. Very, very rarely you'll get a car that does just drive across the road for no apparent reason. That is a very rare occurrence, but it sticks in people's heads because it sticks out. It certainly sticks out more than the 100 cars you just swerved around on the freeway, not hitting a single one.

 

Many people (in this and similar threads) have explained that they do not have much of a problem with the traffic. The problems that I have with it I know for a fact - yes, a 100% fact - that it is down to bad programming. How do I know this? Because I have had over 18 months hands-on experience with this game and I understand software, as I explained. I see patterns that I understand and can equate into simple functions. The fact that you cannot do that is neither here nor there, but it is certainly not in any way indicative that I am wrong.

 

I can very clearly see what people are referring to, but I have an understanding of it that means I know it is not traffic that is purposely in the way, but a result of an attempt at making it seem to act realistically, gone terribly wrong.

Not one single time did I ever say that every single traffic car tries to get in my way. I never even said that most of them do. You're entire commentary on how many cars do nothing special is therefore irrelevant.

 

But regarding the cars that seem to get in the way but are actually just changing lanes for a perfectly valid reason, yes, I've experienced that, and I do not count them as traffic cars that the game deliberately puts in my way. Those aren't what I'm talking about at all. I already explained more than once the specific example I'm talking about, and shan't repeat myself again.

 

But now we get into your real problem. You don't know for a fact what Rockstar's intentions are any more than I do, yet you claim to know with 100% certainty that it's a fact that this is just bad programming. I can't help but remember earlier on you were 100% certainty that I had no programming experience at all, so I don't put much stock in your 100% certainties to begin with. But when you go and proclaim your belief to be a fact, I just can't take you seriously after that. Either you don't know the difference between knowing and believing, or you're too arrogant to accept that you could be wrong.

 

Rather than waste any more time arguing with someone who proclaims his beliefs to be facts, I'm just going to add you to my ignore list so I won't have to see any more of your foolishness.

[OurJud]

 

It's funny, I can drive around for hours and not have a single collision. It's called 'slowing down at junctions'.

 

People drive around like dicks, and then complain when they have collisions

 

I'm forced to drive nicely in real life.

I'll be f*cked if I'm going to drive like that in a video game.

 

 

Fine. Then accept the consequences and quit moaning.

[Furry_Monkey]

Thank the Lord for that. That was about him, not to him as I know he won't see this unless he chooses to. It makes a change for the idiot to be the one ignoring me

[hsthompson]

Thank the Lord for that. That was about him, not to him as I know he won't see this unless he chooses to. It makes a change for the idiot to be the one ignoring me

What are you talking about?

[Gaffa]

Lane changes U-turns and they spawn just in time to be in your way in the intersection. It makes riding a motorcycle basically a death wish because it's literally you against 1,000s of vigilante drivers.

 

Why are all your posts in bold? Makes everything harder to read.

[ShiviSRT-10]

I swear this is lag...happened so much during rooftop rumble! I always assumed it's the game being unsure of the location of the npc car, so much like an electron it just assumes it's everywhere along the path you can take and then the game makes it work by animating the car into you

[Dest45]

 

 

Lane changes U-turns and they spawn just in time to be in your way in the intersection. It makes riding a motorcycle basically a death wish because it's literally you against 1,000s of vigilante drivers.

Why are all your posts in bold? Makes everything harder to read.

it really does. It hurts my eyes

[phattoni]

LL Cool J is right they don't Always <-keyword aim for you. But they do it sometimes undeniable, on the amount of times it happens. Astoroth211's clip is a good example, lol. Quarthon is right I get a chuckle out of it, as I think they made it this way on purpose its GTA after all. Annoying at times but if you don't wanna get hit by NPC's brake before you see it coming at you or go around.

[Furry_Monkey]

 

Thank the Lord for that. That was about him, not to him as I know he won't see this unless he chooses to. It makes a change for the idiot to be the one ignoring me

What are you talking about?

 

 

Side-conversation with guy who can't read - don't worry about it. It was on-topic but discussing the actual conversation wouldn't be, so I won't go into it. It's all there to read.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Furry_Monkey

[Collekt]

they sometimes indeedly drive like idiots

 

this thing would solve our problems:

 

you are making a U turn out if nowhere? i don't think so.

 

 

With the way the front end is designed, the Cheetah is actually damn near to being just this. You can sometimes drive under other people's cars because the front end of the Cheetah is basically built like a ramp, especially if you get the racing suspension or whatever to lower the car even more.

[JakeHorgrove]

I used to not believe the cars jump out in front of you. I thought it was just random occurrences the game simulates like real traffic. Now I'm not so sure.

 

The game definately knows where you are, and goes out of it's way to get into yours. Whether its a glitch or intended I don't know, but it does indeed happen.

 

I've seen cars jump a lane to turn in the opposite direction they were heading just to get in front of me.

 

For the first time today I saw a car cut right in front of me in my lane, and when I swerved left the car swerved back to its original lane just to get in front of me. Just gotta deal with it.

[phattoni]

Your right happens a lot. I find it funny how they go outta there way to hit you or annoy you. I'd like your post but I can't Jake.

[Squirrel__Army]

In the single player cars are scripted to get in your way during the missions, can't see why they wouldn't add code to get a similar effect online.

[Setzaroth]

bottom line they don't aim for you

 

 

/thread

Ya...they do.

[LL Cool L]

on another note, ya'll need to step your elusive game up

 

dodge em, weave in and out, swerve......brake!

 

 

 

 

*drives zenterno at full speed on the wrong side of the road without braking, crashes, then comes to gta forums to make a thread*

[GR Choke]

 

 

try to keep it under the posted speed limit and you will be fine..

"Let's follow the traffic laws in a GRAND THEFT AUTO game."

I used to do that on gta 1 and 2

[muff_huggin_rog]

We get it Furry_Monkey, you're a Gotdamn genious and you're obviously far superior to anyone else. Can u stfu now? SMH

Edit *genius

[phattoni]

Exactly LL Cool J, learn to evade and brake. You know like real life driving lol. Yes its a game but if you don't wanna crash then you will need to brake, swerve, steer. On a side note muff you made me laugh.

[Kohr-Ah]

I feel that this has something to do with the transition between "fake physics" and "real physics" that Rockstar seems to have implemented (look it up, there's a video that it explains it).

It seems that while "fake physics" are active, the NPCs move faster, turn faster, and so forth while when "real physics" are active they move slower and more realistically. Because each version is seems to be pathed differently it leads to some unfortunate circumstances where a car you're approaching seems to be moving along just fine but suddenly transitions into "real physics" and ends up screwing you over. Which explains why this mainly happens at intersections and freeways, where "real physics" would dictate that the NPC might turn or switch lanes but "fake physics" would have them keep going or turn at a weird angle and at a faster speed.

Whatever the case may be, the only thing you can do to combat it is slow down periodically and learn to dodge

 

 

[JakeHorgrove]

Yea u blew my mind lol

 

Funny thing is tho when your preparing for the cars to do it they don't, but when you least expect it they cut into you.

[Vendetta ™]

In my experience, even if you are driving normally, NPCs will pull ridiculous maneuvers such as getting OUT OF THEIR LANE and swerving directly in front of you or waiting until you get close to make their turn.

 

Of course people will deny this and fight it until the cows come home, but the evidence is there.

[Giuseppe Profaci]

All I know is, I'm tired of getting run over. LOL!