Spaghetti Cat Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Fair enough, wasn't trying to equate slavery with the modern democrat party, but did want people outside the country posting here to understand the history behind it. Kinda grating being labeled a bigot when I'm against all those things. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of conservatism. But you do have to admit that center(centre?)-left is different than socialist to most people. I don't think that the crowds that Bernie gathers is as knowledgable as you are on these issues, and are just there because they think that he's gonna solve all the problems and stick it to those evil wall st guys. It's a bit disingenuous in my opinion, but could be wrong. and for the record I really don't watch Glenn, i just can't take him seriously with all the previous history and whatnot... E: whops that was in answer to MTD, didn't realize it got to a new page. Edited August 22, 2015 by Spaghetti Cat No Image Available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Wait just a second...Are you guys saying that old Bernie is just using the label of socialist to further his political career? Whoever said Bernie was basically a Christian Democrat was pretty much bang on the money. hi that was me But you do have to admit that center(centre?)-left is different than socialist to most people. I don't think that the crowds that Bernie gathers is as knowledgable as you are on these issues, and are just there because they think that he's gonna solve all the problems and stick it to those evil wall st guys. It's a bit disingenuous in my opinion, but could be wrong. And what Trump does and says is not? Look, I love Trump's "go f*ck yourself" attitude more than anything. I actually enjoy watching his rallies. But you're going to tell me his fans are knowledgeable and that he's not disingenuous when he says "My favorite book is the Bible". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eutyphro Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Fair enough, wasn't trying to equate slavery with the modern democrat party, but did want people outside the country posting here to understand the history behind it. Kinda grating being labeled a bigot when I'm against all those things. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of conservatism. But you do have to admit that center(centre?)-left is different than socialist to most people. I don't think that the crowds that Bernie gathers is as knowledgable as you are on these issues, and are just there because they think that he's gonna solve all the problems and stick it to those evil wall st guys. It's a bit disingenuous in my opinion, but could be wrong. I was being slightly provocative I guess, but at the same time it is your choice to feel spoken to when someone is being provocative concerning the interpretation of 'conservatism' in the US. As mtd pointed out, the Republican party is nothing like what it represented back then. Back then it was a party of the north, and not only opposed slavery, but also 'wage slavery' (exploitation of low paid workers). What it represents now is a combination of the ideas of closed minded frightened religious fundamentalist gun weilding rednecks and corporate america, and is much more popular than the democratic party in what used to be the confederate states.. Today it is also a party that most significantly favors the prison industrial complex and the systematic persecution of black people related to it. But yes, still maybe me equating modern US 'conservatives' with those formerly in favor of slavery was slightly over the top. Kind of unnecessary of me in retrospect, so let's forget I ever said that. On Bernie: how is it disingenuous to point out the most significant issues to 99% of the country, and give reasonable ideas to make progress on them? Is it disingenuous to say things that appeal to people? Is it more genuine to ignore the important issues as much as possible, pretend to represent ordinary people when you are in reality a sell out to billionaires and the corporate sector? Bernie is the only genuine candidate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dildo Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I don't think that the crowds that Bernie gathers is as knowledgable as you are on these issues, and are just there because they think that he's gonna solve all the problems and stick it to those evil wall st guys. It's a bit disingenuous in my opinion, but could be wrong. the only thing that's disingenuous here is your shallow, blanket assumptions about the motivations of Bernie Sanders supporters... Eutyphro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X S Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 And what Trump does and says is not? Look, I love Trump's "go f*ck yourself" attitude more than anything. I actually enjoy watching his rallies. But you're going to tell me his fans are knowledgeable and that he's not disingenuous when he says "My favorite book is the Bible". LMAO, that moment was priceless. Someone held his book up, The Art of the Deal, and he then says, "that's my second favorite book. Want to know my first? The Bible!" What a crock of sh*t. Trump is simply pandering to the Evangelicals of the Republican party. I think he has more in common with a guy like Barry Goldwater, except that Goldwater was not a populist. Goldwater was explicitly critical of the evangelicals in the 60's: “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” *ehem* Ted Cruz *ehem* http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/21/politics/ted-cruz-ellen-page-lgbt-iowa-state-fair/ Dingdongs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaghetti Cat Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 In answering Irv's question, yeah I do think that dichotomy between Trump and Sanders interesting. With Trump it's sort of Johnny-come-lately with regards to conservatism. In my opinion he's more of a crony capitalist, see the answer in the debate regarding giving money to the Clinton's. I do like his business experience with regards to the debt, but the other stuff, like the bible comment, gives me pause. Sanders, i believe, has similar problems. Commenters here discussed his lack of true socialist cred, which led me to the question earlier. Sure there are differences between Europe and the USA, but I do find it interesting that someone who is neither a Democrat nor a true blue socialist is seeking the Democrat nod for President. It's also interesting that these two guys are leading in the polls and drawing large crowds. So are the people going there really cheering on either candidate, or is there something else going on under the surface. Honestly I don't think any of the commenters or pundits know what they're talking about regarding this election cycle, it'll be interesting to watch. And Diablo, lay off man. You don't need to keep attacking me personally. I was simply answering MTD's comment with his regards to knowledge on socialism. Which, in my opinion, is pretty broad. If you don't agree with me fine, but don't keep poking me for no reason. Haven't we gone over this before? No Image Available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dildo Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) it's not without reason. you tend to say dumb things that I doubt you can even support. so I'm calling you on it. when you stop, I'll stop. it's nothing personal if that's what you're worried about. Edited August 23, 2015 by El Diablo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 And what Trump does and says is not? Look, I love Trump's "go f*ck yourself" attitude more than anything. I actually enjoy watching his rallies. But you're going to tell me his fans are knowledgeable and that he's not disingenuous when he says "My favorite book is the Bible". LMAO, that moment was priceless. Someone held his book up, The Art of the Deal, and he then says, "that's my second favorite book. Want to know my first? The Bible!" What a crock of sh*t. Trump is simply pandering to the Evangelicals of the Republican party. I think he has more in common with a guy like Barry Goldwater, except that Goldwater was not a populist. Goldwater was explicitly critical of the evangelicals in the 60's: Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. *ehem* Ted Cruz *ehem* http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/21/politics/ted-cruz-ellen-page-lgbt-iowa-state-fair/ He's going to last a long time. He's got the evangelical behind him, college educated republicans, moderate republicans... Read a times article today that his polling is actually quite diverse X S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jatiger13 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Does anyone else here see the similarities between Trump and Reagan? Or am I the only one? A lot of people saw Reagan running for president as a joke. "Reagan for president? Ronald Reagan, the actor? Yeah, right." Trump is seen the same way by many people, minus the actor stuff. Trump may say crazy stuff from time to time, but I wouldn't count him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRITLAND Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/22/politics/joe-biden-washington-meetings/index.html Possible Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren tag team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Fandango Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'd forgotten about Elizabeth Warren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think Jim Webb/Elizabeth Warren would be a dope ticket, would actually donate/put up a sign for those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I almost feel bad for Jeb Bush... https://instagram.com/p/6xi2dEGhfn/?taken-by=realdonaldtrump "Even Barbara Bush agrees with me." -- Donald Trump Edited August 25, 2015 by Queen Eutyphro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X S Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Warren was actually removed from the Boston Herald's poll, which some believe led to Sanders' surge in NH. I assume she'll be part of the race in some capacity. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/12/a-few-asterisks-on-that-bernie-sanders-lead-in-new-hampshire-poll/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeyhole Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Joe Biden can't run. He's a broken man. I mean that with no disrespect but with the amount of tragedy that's gone down in his life, nah. I don't think so. The based southern democrat Jim Webb however, I would love to see run. Not sure about Warren though. Edited August 25, 2015 by Canadian Badass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dildo Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Biden probably shouldn't run... he wouldn't be a bad president but he doesn't really have anything original to offer from any angle. Biden only really represents the largely uninterrupted continuation of the Obama presidency policy agenda. which is fine in some ways and pretty crappy in others. Hillary would still be the better candidate than Biden. Jim Webb would be a decent candidate in theory but he's sort of like Lincoln Chafee. who? exactly. I'm afraid Webb simply doesn't campaign very well. he doesn't really inspire anyone at this point. lol ok see, I tried to find a 'cool,' normal looking picture of Jim Webb. this is pretty much the best I could and it's not great that leather jacket is something my step dad would've worn in 1995. props for the fist-raise though. WHITE POWER oh wait... Edited August 25, 2015 by El Diablo Dingdongs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooeyhole Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Well Webb can't get the commie crowd, and he can't get the tea party nut hugger crowd, and he doesn't campaign well so the middle aren't going with him, but they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaghetti Cat Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Well as a tea bagging nut hugger I kinda like Webb. Not sure about his economic policies, and would have liked to see a bit more independence from the Democrat party in his time in the Senate. But he is pretty strong on defense matters and would probably attract some Reagan-Democrats if he gains some traction. E: Whoops I said Reagan and forgot to back that opinion up with multiple sources. Diablo is gonna write me another angry haiku. Zook 1 No Image Available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eutyphro Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Reagans approval ratings were pretty average (often below 50%), and the deification of Reagan by the mainstream media is a kind of historical revisionism. Why isn't there a deification of Eisenhower? He had far better aproval ratings, but I guess he wasn't a good looking hollywood actor with nice hair like Reagan was. If Eisenhower would've been godly like Reagan he would've been blessed with better hair I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X S Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Reagans approval ratings were pretty average (often below 50%), and the deification of Reagan by the mainstream media is a kind of historical revisionism. Why isn't there a deification of Eisenhower? He had far better aproval ratings, but I guess he wasn't a good looking hollywood actor with nice hair like Reagan was. If Eisenhower would've been godly like Reagan he would've been blessed with better hair I guess. That's human nature at work. History is mired with controversial but idolized figures. Is it really any different than romanticizing Che Guevara in pop-culture, or placing Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill? In 20 years time, Frank Miller will do a comic biopic on a superhuman Reagan who defeats Soviet Russia on the Moon in an alternate dimension of 1984. I'll put $50 down on that. Any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Donald Trump kicked Jorge Ramos, a highly respected Mexican American television anchor, out of a conference. Trump called upon a reporter to ask a question, and a split second later Ramos interrupted demanding he had a right to ask his questions, to which Trump shot him down and ultimately had him removed from the room. Check it out... Moments later Jorge Ramos was allowed back into the conference. Donald Trump allowed him to ask his questions, which snowballed into a lengthy back-and-forth banter. Here it is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7_HaEOIJhM It will be interesting to see what this will do to Trump's campaign. If past events have taught us anything, it taught us that this will not hurt Trump, but rather help increase his popularity. Here's a man who won't take sh*t and sticks to his guns. Whether that's a good thing, I haven't decided yet. But here's how I see it. Yeah, 11 million people is a big number, but if they're illegal, they're illegal. If people (and not just Mexicans) want to live in America, that's great, but do it legally, and if you can't afford to do that, then too bad. Rules are rules. I found it funny that Trump kicked Ramos out (just like he would do to the illegals), and then let him back in (which he will do once the illegals become legal). Edited August 26, 2015 by Queen El Dildo, Carbonox and Skeever 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X S Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Speaking of Reagan, he did something similar, but Trump just takes it to another level. Skeever, El Dildo and Queen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dildo Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Jorge Ramos is absolutely right, of course. it's a critical issue to broach because it's one of the most powerful illustrations of how not serious Donald Trump's candidacy actually is. mad props to Ramos for just saying 'f/ck you' to Trump's charade press conference and demanding his question be heard. it's the only important question anyone was going to ask that afternoon. among the myriad of insane statements he's made, Trump claims that without hesitation he will attempt to deport all illegal aliens within United States borders. not only is this physically impossible, but if it were somehow possible it would immediately bankrupt the nation and cause rampant food shortages. public sanitation would build up in the streets, tourism/travel industries would dry up, public and private construction would almost come to a halt, the shipping ports would close, the fishing industry would collapse, the fruit/vegetable industry would collapse, the farm/dairy/meat industry would collapse. there would be no taxi drivers. there would be no groundskeeping or landscapers. there would be no dry cleaning. there would be no laundromats. there would be no convenience stores open 24/7. should we continue? because this list definitely goes on... it's just completely absurd. you cannot be a serious candidate for president and hold the positions that Donald Trump apparently holds. it's not possible. Tchuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchuck Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Jorge Ramos is absolutely right, of course. it's a critical issue to broach because it's one of the most powerful illustrations of how not serious Donald Trump's candidacy actually is. mad props to Ramos for just saying 'f/ck you' to Trump's charade press conference and demanding his question be heard. it's the only important question anyone was going to ask that afternoon. among the myriad of insane statements he's made, Trump claims that without hesitation he will attempt to deport all illegal aliens within United States borders. not only is this physically impossible, but if it were somehow possible it would immediately bankrupt the nation and cause rampant food shortages. public sanitation would build up in the streets, tourism/travel industries would dry up, public and private construction would almost come to a halt, the shipping ports would close, the fishing industry would collapse, the fruit/vegetable industry would collapse, the farm/dairy/meat industry would collapse. there would be no taxi drivers. there would be no groundskeeping or landscapers. there would be no dry cleaning. there would be no laundromats. there would be no convenience stores open 24/7. should we continue? because this list definitely goes on... it's just completely absurd. you cannot be a serious candidate for president and hold the positions that Donald Trump apparently holds. it's not possible. Well surely there are plenty of unemployed legal residents just waiting to fill in those jobs eh? He would have to start with his companies as well, as I recall some reports of him used illegal aliens as workers at some of his projects. But yeah, there's no conceivable way he could just open the gates and remove all illegal aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Nobody knows where these illegals are, that's the real issue here that this guy is blowing off. It's 12-20 million people that are for all intents and purposes totally blended into society. El Dildo and Tchuck 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eutyphro Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Shows how full of sh*t Trump was when he said that Bernie should've thrown out the black lives matter hecklers from his rally. If Trump wouldn't have needed to let this reporter back in for the sake of his own good publicity, then he wouldn't have. White rich old guys can't kick colored people out and simultaneously get good publicity on it.. Edited August 26, 2015 by Eutyphro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) I just read this article about Christie's stance on education. http://bizstandardnews.com/2015/08/23/chris-christie-suggests-teachers-get-minimum-wage-plus-bonuses/ He thinks that teachers are paid too much and should be paid minimum wage, and be given bonuses for every student who passes standardized tests. I knew his knowledge on education was poor (despite his mother being an educator), but this has to be the most ridiculous stance on education I've ever heard. I can't even begin to tell you how much money I've needed to fork out of my own pocket to fill my room with resources. Just within the past two days I've spent well over $200 on classroom supplies, because budgets keep getting cut short. My college debt is in the thousands of dollars, and this will be the case for many years to come, because as it stands, I don't get paid enough. I'm sick and tired of people assuming that teachers work until 3 PM and then go home and suck on lollipops all night. I go home and work my a** off writing lesson plans, correcting papers, putting together materials, and fretting over how I'm going to help that one student who just doesn't get it yet. Oh, and the summers.That's an infamous one. I've spent my summer fulfilling credit requirements and running summer school programs. And why do I kill myself? Because I love my job. And for anyone to say that bonuses will be based on student scores on standardized tests is atrocious. There are sometimes students who just don't have parents who take any interest in their education. Sometimes parents allow their son or daughter to slack off at home. How is that the teacher's fault? Is she supposed to go home and make sure his parents tell him to do his homework? What about urban schools where kids are stricken by poverty? You can't learn effectively under certain circumstances. And standardized tests are an ineffective way of measuring student success. People like Gardner and Sternberg argued that all children (and adults) learn and express their knowledge in different ways. To subject all students to a paper and pencil test that involves filling in bubbles and writing essays only accounts for a fraction of young learners. For example, some students learn best with practical assignments (sharing their knowledge through media), others learn best creatively (creating a piece of artwork that depicts a famous figure in history), while others learn best analytically (creating Venn diagrams). The bottom line is I'm sick and tired of politicians and their mistreatment of not only the kids, but also the teachers. Until you step into a classroom, and are responsible for the education of thousands, then you simply don't know squat. Sorry for the rant, folks. I just took this very personally, and believe me when I say that I will never vote for this moron. Thankfully, he doesn't stand a chance up against the other candidates. Anyway, I need to get back to writing lesson plans... Edited August 26, 2015 by Queen Eutyphro, Dingdongs, Skeever and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaghetti Cat Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Nah it's all good Queen. We need to hear from those in the thick of it and their experiences. And thanks again for taking care of the little booger-eaters. IIRC teachers are college educated? Minimum wage seems a bit low for that kind of education that you all have to go through. I know you don't do it for the money, but you should be compensated in regards to the job that you do. Building future leaders and all that. Not to take away from anything you've said, but coming from the joe on the street, we see spending in education going up and up over the years. Yet there is little that go to teachers ( I guess I should say teachers that start out or aren't unionized) and it seems like we are getting less and less for that investment. This is not in any way a swipe at teachers. But I think, and you may agree, that the money ends up in areas that have little to do with teaching. Kinda like military spending where little money goes towards the privates and sergeants in the field, but billions are spent on failed weapons programs. Seems like that money gets hovered up at higher levels and doesn't find it's way to the folks that need it the most. I have no problem spending money on education, but I do want that money to be spent well. We're building our society for the next generation after all. Also the standardized tests are whack, but that's a topic for another day. Anyways, thanks for the heads up Q. Queen 1 No Image Available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Fandango Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Not to take away from anything you've said, but coming from the joe on the street, we see spending in education going up and up over the years. Yet there is little that go to teachers ( I guess I should say teachers that start out or aren't unionized) Teachers are generally underpaid. Teachers unions are a right-wing boogeyman but in reality they haven't even managed to get the wages seen in other professions where you need an expensive four year degree (engineering and such). Also we're talking about public sector unions, they would represent all teachers. 'Teacher should get minimum wage' for f*cks sake. Like how removed from reality do you have to be where you think huge multinational corporations that use slaves and don't pay their taxes are fine but teachers and their crazy demands are an obstacle we have to overcome? Fonz and Dingdongs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Not to take away from anything you've said, but coming from the joe on the street, we see spending in education going up and up over the years. Yet there is little that go to teachers ( I guess I should say teachers that start out or aren't unionized) Teachers are generally underpaid. Teachers unions are a right-wing boogeyman but in reality they haven't even managed to get the wages seen in other professions where you need an expensive four year degree (engineering and such). Also we're talking about public sector unions, they would represent all teachers. 'Teacher should get minimum wage' for f*cks sake. Like how removed from reality do you have to be where you think huge multinational corporations that use slaves and don't pay their taxes are fine but teachers and their crazy demands are an obstacle we have to overcome? I support all unions, but sometimes these teachers unions get a bit out of hand. We've all had a teacher we know should've been f*cking sacked but got to stay due to union negotiated tenure. Some reforms are needed. Doing what Chris Christie or these guys in Wisconsin/Michigan are doing and busting the entire unions isn't the answer though. Edited August 28, 2015 by Irviding Spaghetti Cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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