U.S. Presidential Election 2016

[make total destroy]

 

 

EDIT: Content. What mental gymnastics will we see with this one?

 

 

maybe that's seven50il

[Spaghetti Cat]

May the nice lady has an African-American as either a husband or daughter/son. There are plenty of people of all colors that support Trump, so I don't see why this is an issue, unless you're trying to make a racial point or something. Which I thought we were beyond by now.

[Clem Fandango]

There are plenty of people of all colors that support Trump, so I don't see why this is an issue

A white person is holding a 'blacks for Trump sign'?

 

unless you're trying to make a racial point or something. Which I thought we were beyond by now.

 

What?

[Queen]

What he means is perhaps she has a husband who is black. That said, I don't see a black man in the crowd. But I do see a black woman behind Trump. So no matter how small the percentage may be, there is support.

[Clem Fandango]

Much more likely, she doesn't represent black people in any way whatsoever and reasons that "well he's gonna sort them out with some discipline it'll be good for them."

[Queen]

Right...

[Eutyphro]

There was a black guy standing next to her with the same sign..

 

 

But yeah, it's all f*cking embarrassing anyway.

[Clem Fandango]

What do you want to bet those three black people behind Trump were the only ones in the crowd?

[Smith John]

Right wingers still playing the "Bill did it too" card no?

Kinda reminiscent of the typical leftist argument, à la, "those disgusting white Christians with their imperialism did it too, hundreds of years ago". Such progression... much moving forward...

 

In addition:

 

 

I realise the above video is going to trigger a vast number of members on here, but I'd like to hope this section can still accept opposition.

[Spaghetti Cat]

Mel, your collectivist mind may not understand this, but Constitutionalists like myself see people as individuals and not groups to be placed in boxes.

 

 

 

yadda yadda yadda Obamacare fails yadda yadda

 

 

In some states, the premium increases are striking. In Arizona, unsubsidized premiums for a hypothetical 27-year-old buying a benchmark "second-lowest cost silver plan" will jump by 116 percent, from $196 to $422, according to the administration report.

 

 

 

https://apnews.com/62acdd911e4d44a5b855acf25122bd22/Obama-administration-confirms-double-digit-premium-hikes?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

[The Dedito Gae]

...she doesn't represent black people...

Blacks is the correct term.

[make total destroy]

 

Mel, your collectivist mind may not understand this, but Constitutionalists like myself see people as individuals and not groups to be placed in boxes.

 

 

Collectivism v. individualism is a false dichotomy. Besides, the very idea of a national identity--of which you seem to value greatly--is itself a collectivist notion.

[Clem Fandango]

Mel, your collectivist mind may not understand this, but Constitutionalists like myself see people as individuals and not groups to be placed in boxes.

Translation: we ignore social phenomenon and expectations, historical development, and the very existence of differing interests and wrap our defense for the status quo in a faux-individualism.

 

Some individuals are just rich, and you can't constrain them by putting them in a box like 'rich guy'! Ignore the fact that they are all related and intermarried, ignore that they have their own fashion, neighbourhoods, hobbies and vernacular! Ignore the extensive business press where they discuss and work towards their shared interests!

[Smith John]

And a religious identity is?

[Clem Fandango]

 

 

Mel, your collectivist mind may not understand this, but Constitutionalists like myself see people as individuals and not groups to be placed in boxes.

 

 

Collectivism v. individualism is a false dichotomy. Besides, the very idea of a national identity--of which you seem to value greatly--is itself a collectivist notion.

 

Individualism is a fair enough proposition and in a philosophy class, a problem for Communism. Liberalism is built around appealing to individualism to disguise the relationships between groups. If you read the business press there's a great deal of 'us and them' rhetoric ("those mooching smallfolk need to be kept away from our government") but then they go on TV and flip between "I'm expressing my individuality!" and "leftist rhetoric divides are glorious Empire."

[Clem Fandango]

And a religious identity is?

A religious identity is what?

[TheFrank]

There was a black guy standing next to her with the same sign..

 

 

And a guy with a lab coat and a stethoscope behind them.

 

- I'm not a doctor but I play one at Trump rallies.

Edited October 26, 2016 by TheFrank

[Smith John]

That's what I'm asking. Is it collectivism, or individualism.

[Smith John]

 

There was a black guy standing next to her with the same sign..

 

 

And a guy with a lab coat and a stethoscope behind them.

 

- I'm not a doctor but I play one at Trump rallies.

Black guy says, "I don't hate white people, I have white friends!!!".

 

Yeah, that worn out argument works both ways. And it's a f*cking sh*t rebuttal.

[Not A Nice Person]

Theres also a cheerleader behind Trump. Trump clearly attracts people of all backgrounds!!

[make total destroy]

A religious identity is what?

 

 

I think that was in response to me stating that national identity is a collectivist notion. Like, yeah, religious identity is a collectivist notion too. I don't see how that impacts this discussion.

[El Dildo]

They want you to hate yourselves.

yes Typhus... the "Left" wants you to hate yourself... that's their message, yup, you figured it out.

boy howdy they can't throw a fast one past you, you're on to em' alright. you can see right through their want to give people health care and allow gays to get married and reform the criminal justice system; it's all a clever ruse to force you into self loathing and suicide! muahahahaha!

 

 

you're f/cking delusional

 

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

...."hahaha

. What a bunch of House Niggas."

I've repeated similar sentiments about the irrationality behind voters motivation.

He’s hated by all the right people. Trump reminds naive voters of that relatable local business owner who makes more than the other local elites despite being unpolished and unfiltered.

He lives the fleeting mirage of the American Dream…because let’s get real, how many wealthy corporate execs. can really speak their minds at just about any time without jeopardizing their career and reputation? There’s rich enough to comfortably retire, and then there's "f*ck you" money. Trump has the latter.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Triple Vacuum Seal

[Smith John]

 

A religious identity is what?

 

I think that was in response to me stating that national identity is a collectivist notion. Like, yeah, religious identity is a collectivist notion too. I don't see how that impacts this discussion.You're right, it was a response to you. Somebody else posted at the same time and split up the posts. Using phone 'n' sh*t.

 

It impacts this discussion because as I see it, you're happy enough to condemn 'nationalist' collectivism, but I must wonder if you guys would be as quick to condemn Islamic collectivism? An issue - of the same fundamental makings - of which the left reluctantly want to touch.

[Clem Fandango]

 

 

A religious identity is what?

I think that was in response to me stating that national identity is a collectivist notion. Like, yeah, religious identity is a collectivist notion too. I don't see how that impacts this discussion.

You're right, it was a response to you. Somebody else posted at the same time and split up the posts. Using phone 'n' sh*t.

 

It impacts this discussion because as I see it, you're happy enough to condemn 'nationalist' collectivism, but I must wonder if you guys would be as quick to condemn Islamic collectivism? An issue - of the same fundamental makings - of which the left reluctantly want to touch.

 

Human society is inherently 'collectivist.' Liberalism purports to be individualist, but is not. Only individualist anarchists have seriously proposed individualism, and even then it's pretty incoherent IMO. Individualism is a political ideal and not something that exists in the real world.

 

The irony is that American nationalists claim to be 'individualist' and will sometimes make cheeky comments about how it makes them immune to bigotry- since they apparently see human society as a loose conglomerate of individuals, they can't attach prejudice to groups, since the parameters of the groups are meaningless. Of course, they will scream the praises of America at the top of their lungs and with tears in their eyes.

[make total destroy]

It impacts this discussion because as I see it, you're happy enough to condemn 'nationalist' collectivism, but I must wonder if you guys would be as quick to condemn Islamic collectivism?

 

 

I'm not opposed to nationalism or the concept of national identity because they're 'collectivist'--to be opposed to 'collectivism' is to be opposed to any form of social organization--I'm opposed to them because as a communist--and thus, an internationalist--I see them as hurdles to not only the liberation of the working-class, but my own individual liberation. I have no particular love for religion, I just don't buy into the 'clash of civilizations' rhetoric that's pushed by both nationalists and Islamists. I support the millions of people caught in the middle of their bloody project, regardless of their religious affiliation.

 

An issue - of the same fundamental makings - of which the left reluctantly want to touch.

 

I mean, there are leftists in Syria right now fighting ISIS and other Islamist groups--as well as the Turkish state--in defense of the Kurdish people. Just a few months ago, a young American anarchist was killed in Syria, and he's just one of many martyrs in this conflict. 'The left' is doing more right now to combat Islamism than any run-of-the-mill European nationalist group is capable of.

[Typhus]

 

They want you to hate yourselves.

yes Typhus... the "Left" wants you to hate yourself... that's their message, yup, you figured it out.

boy howdy they can't throw a fast one past you, you're on to em' alright. you can see right through their want to give people health care and allow gays to get married and reform the criminal justice system; it's all a clever ruse to force you into self loathing and suicide! muahahahaha!

 

 

you're f/cking delusional

 

 

You're being intentionally obtuse.

If you want to talk, we'll talk. But let's not resort to this kind of bickering. It's boring me.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Typhus

[sivispacem]

I mean, there are leftists in Syria right now fighting ISIS and other Islamist groups--as well as the Turkish state--in defense of the Kurdish people.

Not to mention the entire underlying Kurdish-controlled and run region of Rojava from which the majority of Kurdish fighters operate, and the YPGs, Peshmega and other military forces, being closely intertwined with the PKK which follows a libertarian-socialist and directly democratic confederalist ideology.

 

The main military force fighting IS as part of the Syrian Democratic Forces is a far-left aligned people's militia consisting predominantly of both Sunni (~30%) and Shi'a (~60%) Muslim Kurds which is both officially secular and strongly feminist.

[El Dildo]

You're being intentionally obtuse.

dude I'm using your own words.

 

you're the one making ludicrous claims about "the Left."

can't stand the heat? something about avoiding the kitchen...

 

you want to dig yourself out of the tin-foil hole? you better start elaborating because you sound like a dingbat.

[sivispacem]

To be honest anyone talking so generally about "the left" normally does so out of ignorance. Especially when many of the positions they ascribe to "the left" actually have little to nothing to do with it, quite aside from whether these positions and their apparent harms are exaggerations, misinterpretations or outright fabrications.