U.S. Presidential Election 2016

[Eutyphro]

 

Both figures have claims of sexual impropriety levelled towards them by more than one woman.

Well, I'll just copy paste the Bill Clinton cases in here, so people can compare it to Trump's for themselves:

 

 

Paula Jones — A former Arkansas state employee who alleged that in 1991 Clinton, while governor, propositioned her and exposed himself. She later filed a sexual harassment suit, and it was during a deposition in that suit that Clinton initially denied having sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky, a White House intern. Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives over the Lewinsky matter but acquitted in the Senate. The Paula Jones case itself had been dismissed by a federal judge, who ruled that even if her allegations were true, such “boorish and offensive” behavior would not be severe enough to constitute sexual harassment under the law. That ruling was under appeal when Clinton in 1998 settled the suit for $850,000, with no apology or admission of guilt. All but $200,000 was directed to pay legal fees.

Juanita Broaddrick — The nursing home administrator emerged after the impeachment trial to allege that Clinton had raped her 21 years earlier. (She originally declined to cooperate with the Paula Jones’s lawyers, saying in a signed affidavit that “I do not have any information to offer regarding a nonconsensual or unwelcome sexual advance by Mr. Clinton.”) Through a lawyer, Clinton denied the claim. There were no witnesses to alleged 1978 encounter, but several of her friends backed her claim. No charges were ever brought. Broaddrick also claims that just weeks after the incident, Hillary Clinton approached her at a political rally and appeared to thank her for her silence. (Here’s a link to the Dateline NBC interview with her in 1999.)

Kathleen Willey — The former White House aide said Clinton groped her in his office in 1993, on the same day that her husband, facing embezzlement charges, died in an apparent suicide. (During a deposition in the Paula Jones matter, Willey initially said she had no recollection about whether Clinton kissed her and insisted he did not fondle her.) Clinton denied he assaulted her; an independent prosecutor concluded that “there is insufficient evidence to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that President Clinton’s testimony regarding Kathleen Willey was false.”

Other alleged cases — Eileen Wellstone says she was assaulted by Clinton when he was a student at Oxford University in 1969. Connie Hamzy is a rock-and-roll groupie who says she was propositioned in 1984 by then-Gov. Clinton. Sandra Allen James is a fundraiser who claimed Clinton invited her to his hotel room during a 1991 campaign trip and put his hand under her dress. Cristy Zercher is a flight attendant who says Clinton grabbed her breasts during a 1992 campaign flight as Hillary Clinton was asleep nearby.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/10/09/heres-a-guide-to-the-sex-allegations-that-donald-trump-may-raise-in-the-presidential-debate/

 

This right wing website has even far more accounts by Bill listed: http://www.dailywire.com/news/1344/how-many-women-has-bill-clinton-sexually-abused-amanda-prestigiacomo

 

These are far more cases than Trump, and among them a credible rape accusation. Especially credible considering the amount of other accusations. Trump has one accusation of sexual assault against him, one of rape that is seemingly politically motivated, and one dubious one by his ex wife. It's just not comparable to Bill, and your insistence on putting Bill and Trump on the same level in these matters is utterly ridiculous.

 

 

The only real difference is that one of those individuals isn't actually running for President.

 

This boring discussion is seemingly never ending, but it's kinda relevant when the candidate who chastizes Trump for disrespecting women is married to a rapist right? I mean, that is not as irrelevant as you seemingly want it to be.

 

 

And this is just my point- a man who believes women will let him do whatever he want because of his fame is not capable of following social clues.

 

If you think he was completely serious about that, and about 'grabbing women by the pussy'. If you think that was completely serious, then yes, in stead of it being just bragging of sexual prowess and offensive humor.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Eutyphro

[El Dildo]

...it pales compared to rapist Bill

bro, Bill Clinton is not running for president.

 

and look, it's another 2 pages later and you have yet to articulate how Bill's past transgressions - all of which have already been dealt with legally - have any bearing on Hillary as POTUS.

Edited October 12, 2016 by El Diablo

[sivispacem]

To be fair to Euty, on several occasions now he has noted the apparent hypocrisy of criticising Trump's position on gender whilst being married to an alleged sex criminal. I think that's the crux of his point, though personally I don't really see it as hypocritical. Hillary has done infinitely more than Trump to champion women's rights issues so she does maintain the moral high ground, even if she's married to an alleged rapist.

[El Dildo]

to be fair he's grasping at straws and it's a horsesh/t false equivalency to harp on.

he sounds more like someone with a grudge than anything.

 

maybe ole Slick Willy raped his mom or somethin...

Edited October 12, 2016 by El Diablo

[Typhus]

The issue of Hilary's marriage is endemic of a wider problem in politics - the willingness of the electorate to judge a politician by the company they keep.

On social media recently, there was a photoshopped image circulating of Donald Trump's parents in KKK outfits. Ignore, for a moment, Trump's inexperience and bigotry - out of all the reasons to detest the man, if that photograph were true and his parents were in the KKK then WHY should people hold what his parents did against him?

By that same token, why can't people seperate Hilary from the man she chose to marry?

 

People might say "Oh, well it shows poor judgement", or "it shows a moral failing to remain married to an alleged rapist". But at the end of the day, it's not their business. It's personal. And I don't see how the personal choices of Hilary Clinton the woman, are any business of the electorate?

 

Strategically, it's very smart. Even if I don't agree morally with using tapes of a private conversation to attack Trump, it has clearly worked. Though I still don't see what relevance his comments actually have when considering what kind of President he would make.

[Super Sayan Nappa]

 

Interference with other nations isn't something exclusive to Russia

In Europe since the end of the conflicts in the former Yugoslavia, it has been.

I wouldn't say conflict ended, especially one regarding diplomacy haven't.

[Eutyphro]

I actually want Hillary Clinton to be president. But I just hate bullsh*t. That is all. I shouldn't have expected making a point about Trump against people with a specifically strong hatred for him would go easy. But I didn't expect the point that Bill is an overwhelmingly bigger sex criminal would face so much disagreement, because it is so obviously true.

I read an article on Dutch state media about 'Trump and Bill's women issues', and they did mention the case where Trump overly aggressively came onto a woman in a relationship, the most substantial sexual violence case against Trump, but only mentioned the Lewinsky scandal relating to Bill. That just pisses me the f*ck off, not because I even remotely support Trump, but because it's bullsh*t.

I actually feel uncomfortable taking a position in a discussion that doesn't consist of saying that Trump is a piece of sh*t, or a less big piece of sh*t than someone else.

[jatiger13]

I don't know if people are upset about Bill being called a bigger sleezebag than Trump. At least I'm not. I just don't like the false equivalence or the fact that the Trump camp uses that as a reason for why Hillary shouldn't be President. They somehow seem to think that it's ok for Trump to be a sleezy old man because, after all, there are bigger creeps out there.

 

 

 

I'm loving the fact that the Republican party is imploding. Such a sh*tshow.

Edited October 12, 2016 by jatiger13

[X S]

Typhus hit the nail on the head.

 

The tapes are an example of confirmation bias. They just reinforce any pre-existing and irrational thoughts people may have had. They're irrational because they have no bearing on whether or not said person can perform his or her duties.

 

I say that knowing we already had two well-known womanizers occupy the White House, both Bill Clinton and John F. Kennedy. In fact, Kennedy went as far as having an affair with a 19 year-old intern, cornering her in the White House and taking her virginity. J. Edgar Hoover attempted to warn JFK about his infidelities by claiming one of them was a Soviet spy, but most of that was just attempted subterfuge by Hoover.

 

Having said all of that, it does matter, though. No one has been acting rational about anything this election, so it's fair game to accuse both Trump and Hillary as both an alleged offender and enabler, respectively.

[jatiger13]

The only thing that matters is that Trump is completely incompetent and clueless. 'Nuff said. The argument for who should be President ends there.

Just look deeper into his economical plan and you'll see exactly why his proposal is absolutely batsh*t insane.

His plan would decrease revenue by about $6 trillion, yet he wants to spend more money.

Edited October 12, 2016 by jatiger13

[TheFrank]

Why should it matter? He's only there to make her look good.

[Raavi]

Two more women have come forward sharing their stories about how Donald Trump sexually assaulted them. And these likely won't be the last either.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/us/politics/donald-trump-women.html?_r=1

 

No "Locker room talk", but the shameless boasting about crimes committed by someone born with a golden spoon up his ass that has always thought himself untouchable. Rather poetic how that hubris is proving to be his undoing now.

[Clem Fandango]

No "Locker room talk", but the shameless boasting about crimes committed by someone born with a golden spoon up his ass that has always thought himself untouchable.

So, locker room talk?

[sivispacem]

Looks like multiple women are coming forward to accuse Trump of touching them inappropriately.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37639839

 

That's three accusations of sexual harassment from three different women, including ex employees, in 24 hours.

[Eutyphro]

But did he grab them by the pussy though?

No but seriously, that's pretty bad. Seems Donald is definitely a serial groper, but I doubt he's a rapist.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

Imagine Trump survives this situation and goes on to win!

 

Now picture him meeting Angela Merkel for the first time. She'd snap his wandering hands right off without even trying....

[make total destroy]

mfw the NJ chairperson to the RNC calls Clinton "ultra-left".

 

 

 

Seems Donald is definitely a serial groper, but I doubt he's a rapist.

...Why?

[Eutyphro]

Well, if Donald is a rapist then we'll find out soon enough because the witch hunt is on. Any way to discredit his person is going to be dug up and used.

[Svip]

I'd say it like this; I am definitely convinced that Trump is a serial groper, but I have not yet seen evidence that he is a rapist. While a phrase like 'grab them by the pussy' is describing sexual assault, it is not actually confirmation that he has ever done it, particularly considering he was bragging and quite possibly exaggerating to impress Billy Bush.

 

But that's entirely different from doubting he is a rapist, I just haven't seen evidence that's convincing me yet.

[Eutyphro]

Yeah, now that these allegations of sexual assault are piling up I have to reconsider what I said, and agree that his comments to Billy Bush are coherent with the stories of him having too few boundaries to his behaviour and him probably having performed sexual assault a number of times. I just felt inclined to defend Trump, because currently there is a witch hunt against him, and there was far too much eagerness to conclude that those jokes weren't just silly bullsh*t and had a basis in actual behaviour, which wasn't certain at the time at all.

But yeah, Bill Clinton was far worse, and supposedly Jack Kennedy was very bad, but both of them became president, and both of them are liked by a lot of people. It just annoys me that people take these allegations more seriously if they dislike someone's political ideas. I happen to find that bullsh*t.

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

^ Looking at the glass half full, Trump is certainly no Caligula. He can take pride in that.

Now picture him meeting Angela Merkel...

Assuming she manages to get reelected.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Triple Vacuum Seal

[Typhus]

Imagine Trump survives this situation and goes on to win!

 

Now picture him meeting Angela Merkel for the first time. She'd snap his wandering hands right off without even trying....

Jesus, groping Merkel would be like handling a sack of frozen potatoes.

[Fuzzknuckles]

Honest question: Is anyone here actually stupid enough to even consider voting for that festering sack of c*nt, Trump?

[make total destroy]

there's a few of them, yeah. most of the Trump supporters around these parts aren't from the States though (which is kind of hilarious tbh)

[GTA_stu]

 

Imagine Trump survives this situation and goes on to win!

 

Now picture him meeting Angela Merkel for the first time. She'd snap his wandering hands right off without even trying....

Jesus, groping Merkel would be like handling a sack of frozen potatoes.

 

 

Merkel getting Merkeled. There'd be some serious irony in that.

 

Honest question: Is anyone here actually stupid enough to even consider voting for that festering sack of c*nt, Trump?

 

I will be voting for Mr. Trump come November.

[Svip]

 

Honest question: Is anyone here actually stupid enough to even consider voting for that festering sack of c*nt, Trump?

I will be voting for Mr. Trump come November.

 

Damn foreigners interfering in US elections!

[make total destroy]

We need to ban Stu from entering the country until we can figure out what's going on.

[X S]

The two reporters who wrote the story have been caught fabricating stories about him in the past. So take it with a grain of salt. People don't usually talk about octopuses when they describe sexual assault.

 

 

[sivispacem]

What about the...what is it, four, five other women who have been reported by various sources as being assaulted by him? You can only try and poison the well for so long before it looks like you're just in denial.

[GTA_stu]

And they all conveniently decide to speak up a month before the election? It's their word against his. There's not 1 single shred of evidence, not 1.