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Irviding

U.S. Presidential Election 2016

Recommended Posts

Irviding

I'm sure he's just trying to get Clinton to move more to the left on some stuff. Rumor has it Clinton took Warren out of the race by offering her Treasury. I really like Clinton though. Reading some of the memoirs of the officials in the government at the time (Gates especially) it seems she was very right on a lot of the foreign policy stuff Obama squandered... supporting the overthrow of Mubarak, etc. which really resulted in the United States now not having a single friend in the entire region.. I know you're very isolationist on foreign policy so you probably dislike Clinton given she's tougher than Obama on that stuff, but she really is not a bad candidate and I like her a lot on most things.

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Tyler

Here's to hoping Sanders manages to effectively fracture the Democratic party.

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Ari Gold

... So that moderate Rockeffeler liberals can have a place in the Republican Party again! Or, hello four-party system?

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El Dildo

the single largest factor contributing to the horrifically sh/tty nature of our politics (greater than the corruptive influence of too much money and Citizens United) is the endless struggle between this seemingly 2-party system of Democrats and Republicans. there are WAY more than just 2 opposing ides to every issue.

 

trying to boil everything down to just Left and Right with no middle ground is killing whatever semblance of reasonable compromise and problem-solving that we once had. we desperately need viable 3rd, 4th, and 5th party options and candidates. the way we pigeonhole everybody into just the Dem or Rep label hurts the men and women in office as much as it hurts the men and women they're supposed to serve.

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Tyler

... So that moderate Rockeffeler liberals can have a place in the Republican Party again! Or, hello four-party system?

 

The GOP is well on its way to splintering in the next decade or two. It'd be great if both parties had a revitalization of sorts, and maybe gave birth to new parties entirely.

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Irviding

UnfortunAtely the system right now is designed for two parties. You'd have to amend the constitution as well as totally adjust the rules of the senate and the house to make it work. I believe we'd be better served as a country if the president was elected to a single 6 year term that isn't renewable, and house and senate had term limits. Nothing crazy, maybe like 4-5 times renewable for the house (8 or 10 years) and two times for the senate 12 years. I fail to see a compelling argument against them other than the pork argument which is that the established senators and representatives can better help their constituents, which is 100% true but the playing field would be leveled if those term limits got introduced...

 

The key though is to make that presidency only a single 6 year term. Right now the first 4 years of a president's term is a joke and consists of pussy footing and worrying about the next election every day. Single 6 year would remove that barrier and at the same time really make a better political climate.. I really don't think our system could accommodate much more change than that though. Multiple parties don't really work in the American system; historically it's never worked out. The times we saw third parties rise they basically just molded into one of the existing parties albeit changing them significantly. As Tyler said above I see that happening with the republicans if they lose this 2016 election. It's going to be bad news for them and there's going to be a splintering of these far right people from the establishment of the party that is working to be more Jeb Bush Marco rubio and not Ted Cruz Huckabee Santorum. They lose & the party is going to blow up. They aren't a "big tent" party and really haven't been since the early Bush days, like before 2005

Edited by Irviding

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Nick1020

The Republican candidates are a joke. It's most likely gonna end up being a Rand Paul vs Hilary Clinton election. If the Republicans dont pick Rand, it's an easy victory for Hilary.

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El Dildo

Jeb Bush is perhaps the most "reasonable" of the potential GOP picks right now.

and he's still a pretty legitimate retard.

 

it's kind of amazing how pathetic the Republican party has become.

by that same token, however, it's also really sad how both parties are stuck in this old dynastic worship. as much as I despise the current incarnation of the GOP, I also hate to be voting for another Clinton.

 

it's mother f/cking 2015 and we're still voting on assholes from 1985.

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Nick1020

I don't know about Jeb Bush, he's to libertarian and we all know how republicans hate them along with liberals. But my guess is Rand Paul is most likely to be nominated as he appeals to Millennials better than all of the gop candidates. But I'd take my chances with Clinton than the gop.

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Ari Gold

How is Jeb Bush too libertarian but Rand Paul not? Do you know who Rand Paul's dad is? The only thing which might help him with the GOP base is the fact that he's more right-wing overall than Jeb, but some of his millenial-grabbing social policies would be abhorrent to the type of Republican who'd vote for Rick Santorum.

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Tyler

...And he's already begun backpedaling on some of those policies that would grab young people, so that he can be more electable to the GOP crowd itself.

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Irviding

...And he's already begun backpedaling on some of those policies that would grab young people, so that he can be more electable to the GOP crowd itself.

Well he's going to have to in order to win the nomination. That's the deal with the primaries... only people who vote in these things are the people on the far right so they want far right rhetoric. Jeb bush is a moderate guy by and large, his politics look more like his father than his brother. That said he's going to have a real battle to fight in this primary.

 

I love this HP ceo running. The same woman that laid off thousands and got forced out by her own board of directors for running the company into the toilet. She knows she won't win but my guess is she's trying to get a job out of a potential republican administration.

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Ari Gold

 

...And he's already begun backpedaling on some of those policies that would grab young people, so that he can be more electable to the GOP crowd itself.

Well he's going to have to in order to win the nomination. That's the deal with the primaries... only people who vote in these things are the people on the far right so they want far right rhetoric. Jeb bush is a moderate guy by and large, his politics look more like his father than his brother. That said he's going to have a real battle to fight in this primary.

 

I love this HP ceo running. The same woman that laid off thousands and got forced out by her own board of directors for running the company into the toilet. She knows she won't win but my guess is she's trying to get a job out of a potential republican administration.

 

 

See, this is why corporate, establishment Republicans need a guy like Romney to run. He loved firing people and, most importantly, he was actually good at it. Fiorino will fail much in the same way that Newt Gingrich did; the latter pushed himself as a more electable Santorum, but his three or so divorces and general debauchery wouldn't have gone well with the "family values" types.

 

Romney may have said no about a thousand times but I still have hope! When the primaries start heating up I'll whip out my Mitt avatar and you whip your Santorum one and it'll be just like old times.

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Eutyphro

Left wing politics are based on the fundamental principle egalitarianism and social equality, oppose hierarchy and support prioritarianism.

Right wing politics are based on the notion that some degree of social inequality is necessary or natural, opposition to economic or social liberalism and a desire to institute and uphold a hierarchical society based generally on natural order.

 

-

 

No cohesive political left really exists in America. Obama is left wing in the context of mainstream American politics, centrist in the context of American political history and centre-right in comparison to internationally accepted definitions of political left and right. His positions more or less align with compassionate/liberal conservative and christian-democratic movements in European politics which are firmly centre-right. Contrast with social democratic parties on the centre left and third-way or radical centrist parties which occupy most of the centre in Western politics

 

From what I've read Obama is kinda like what a moderate republican used to be, someone like Nixon. Anything more left leaning than what used to be a moderate republican is inelectable for presidency these days. Similarly I think someone like Rand Paul who is what in modern US terms is called a 'libertarian' is also unelectable. So both someone more leftist like Kucinich, and someone like Rand/Ron Paul are unelectable on the basis of their views, and they'll be systematically ignored by the media.

 

I know TheYoungTurks can be kinda idiotic sometimes, but I found this clip of them and at the beginning there are some really interesting recent positive Hillary Clinton quotes, but then later on they point out how she was against the major bailouts but voted in favor of them etc.. So there is nothing to be expected to happen in accordance with what she said. Still interesting though:

 

 

Anyway, I think Hillary Clinton is, like most US politicians, a very scary amoral human being, and I have no faith whatsoever in any of the candidates, but there is a miniscule possibility that the rest of the US economy is overpowering the financial sector in an effort to not make the economy collapse and the country go completely to sh*t, but I think it is unlikely, and most likely we are in for many more years of economic despair (me included, considering how the Dutch economy depends on the US economy).

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El Dildo

Carly Fiorina is not running for President.

 

she's running for her own show on Fox News, more or less.

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Doland J. Trump

I don't know about Jeb Bush, he's to libertarian and we all know how republicans hate them along with liberals. But my guess is Rand Paul is most likely to be nominated as he appeals to Millennials better than all of the gop candidates. But I'd take my chances with Clinton than the gop.

Jeb Bush...Libertarian? Please tell me you mean Rand Paul.

 

Paul's the only chance the Republicans have, anyone else will give an easy victory to Hillary.

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Svip

How in the hell is Rand Paul the Republican's only chance? His attempt will be like Ron Paul's attempts in 2008 and 2012. Popular amongst a vocal minority in the Republican party. Few of which actually vote in primaries. So the leading candidate among Republicans will go from crazy to crazy until they settle on the least worse choice, and Jeb Bush will lose in the general election.

 

But it would be a lot more fun if I am wrong.

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Irviding

Rand Paul has no chance of either the nomination nor the election. His views are so all over the place they don't really work for American politics. You can't be opposed to interventions and be a mainstream republican... it doesn't fly and won't win him the primary. Even if he made it somehow come the general election that would spell disaster due to his strange views causing republicans to not go out and vote and most democrats with that anti intervention ideology not voting for him due to his views on social issues

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sivispacem

As an outside observer whose been tracking US politics for the best part of 15 years now I struggle to think of any point in recent history where either party has had such an array of completely unelectable candidates running for nomination. The way things currently look the Democrats could probably put a chimpanzee forward and still win a landslide.

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Svip

As an outside observer whose been tracking US politics for the best part of 15 years now I struggle to think of any point in recent history where either party has had such an array of completely unelectable candidates running for nomination. The way things currently look the Democrats could probably put a chimpanzee forward and still win a landslide.

 

You think Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush are unelectable? I agree, even these candidates are weak tea compared to earlier candidates from both parties. Although, it's not like 2012 was much better for the Republicans.

 

Didn't The Daily Show call the 2012 Republican Convention 'The Road to Jeb Bush 2016'?

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sivispacem

I meant the Republican party specifically. I think George Jr is still too fresh in the memory of most Americans for Jeb to draw much vote from anyone other than diehards.

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Svip

I don't know, I've seen stranger things happen. He seems the most likely candidate. Even if he is doing a bad job so far of distancing himself from his brother.

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Ari Gold

I agree with sivis. Clinton's fairly centrist (by American, overwhelmingly centre-right by world standards) viewpoints would easily draw in pretty much most independent swing voters, even against the most centrist Republican (Jeb). Which sucks, since two centrist candidates nominally is not a failure for American politics but would do well to push both parties from their extremes. But, unless Jeb can manage to simultaneously distance himself from the far-right crazies whilst holding his own party at bay, the election will probably be a foregone conclusion.

 

Not sure if a chimpanzee would quite win a landslide though. :D

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Otter

George Jr was elected twice. I mean, you could argue that fool me once, a fool me can't be fooled again (unless you run Frankenstein's monster against him) but the best part about American politics, from spectator sport point of view, is that the Americans are just as wacky as their political candidates.

 

No offense to those present, obviously. ;) But it's never a clear landslide down there. There are swathes of folks who will vote out of tradition and stubbornness. That's one of the largest problems with FPTP and even with the progressive changes proposed by Irv above, we'll always see it.

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Alvarez

What do the american president candidates have in common of their political goals, anyway?

 

The Americans have been promised "change" already, what will be the next buzzword?

Edited by Alvarez

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Spaghetti Cat

I guess Reagan winning landslide victories in 1980 and 1984 don't count, eh otter?

 

Anyways, I hope that the people that are Ready! for Hillary? understand there are issues out there like the Clinton Foundation that has had several pay-for-play scandals, Benghazi, huge speaking fees from wall street banks, missing e-mail server, health issues, paying women less than men, and her clear lack of likability or charm as a political candidate. Plus the fact that she is just plain old. You guys can make the meme about old-white republicans, but with this field the only tired old-white guy is Jeb!. Several latinos, an acclaimed neurosurgeon who's black, a female business owner, and a libertarian. Sounds pretty diverse to me.

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El Dildo

Benghazi

are you a retarded person?

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Spaghetti Cat

Did I mis-spell it? Damn sorry it auto corrected on me. The place in Lybia where the ambassador and three other members of the State Dept. died. Apologies for any confusion.

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El Dildo

I'm trying to figure out whether or not you're being facetious...

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sivispacem

Did I mis-spell it? Damn sorry it auto corrected on me.

I think he's pointing out the absurdity of you laying the blame for that clusterf*ck at Clinton's feet when it had precisely half of f*ck all to do with her.

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