Heists, Money And You!

[BlackMilk]

This is (compared to the average length) a very long read. If you don't like that, go back to the forum index and read some other thread. Otherwise either read the whole thing now or the short version at the very bottom and then read more for explanations of those points.

I apologise for the lack of special formatting (colours, fonts, sizes) because I simply don't use those a lot, I'll try to work a bit of those in, though.

There's been a lot of discussion on the subject of heist finale pay-outs and player cuts.

I'd like to try to clear a few things up as I suspect that many people are throwing around

opinions, claiming them to be facts and generally being stubborn without really thinking about it.

So, as heist leader, what should you be paying your random crewmembers?

First, you have to ask yourself what you're playing for. There's really only two (common) answers.

1. You want money. Regardless of wether you're rich or poor, it's a fair motivation in a game like this.

2. You want to finish the finale. For many, if money isn't the main motivator, it's because they're still progressing

through heists and at the same time, if it's their first playthrough, unlock some vehicles.

If your answer matches number one, we'll go into more detail.

If you answered anything other than "I want money", it's a bit simpler.

I have to play finales a bit more often to check and make sure (because I don't remember the exact pay-out per finale),

but if I am not mistaken, you can cover your expenses (the set-up costs, and often also ammo/armour/snacks) by taking just 10%

in the finale. If you don't care about having many millions of dollars at your disposal or you're already filthy rich, this is a

good idea.

If you are after lots of money, it gets a little trickier.

First I'm going to talk about other choices, expectations and opinions.

Like we all know, you can either be a heist leader or a crewmember.

What are the differences, pro's and cons?

A heist leader...

+Has (assuming mission success) guaranteed progress through missions in order

+Decides who wears what during each mission, with the exception of some tasks (police report retrieval, trash bags, etc.)

+Decides the roles of all players in the finale

+Decides how much many each player receives after the finale

-Pays a set-up cost for every heist (series of missions, including finale)

-Receives no money before the end of the finale, meaning no monetary rewards for earlier mission successes and no compensation

for failed attempts

A crewmember...

+Can be selective in what missions to play, although that depends on the invitations being sent out

+Receives a reward for set-up mission success and small compensation for mission failure

-Depends on heist leaders for invites, so progress (in order) is only possible by luck or a lot of waiting

-Has limited to no control over appearance in heist missions

-Does not decide for himself what he wants to play in the finale

-Depends on the heist leader to give him a decent amount of money after each finale

So clearly, a heist leader gives up a decent amount of cash in order to have more control over the team and the missions.

Crewmembers have freedom and can more easily acquire money but heavily depend on (generous) heist leaders.

Half of the pro's and cons I listed above have been used as arguments by people when discussing what's a fair cut for leader

and crewmember. (Aspiring) heist leaders seem to be focused completely on profit and expenses, without looking at the bigger picture.

Crewmembers have been equally greedy and using other arguments. So what is fair? Well, everything and nothing, really.

I can pretty much sum up this entire post with just a few words...

IT'S ALL A MATTER OF OPINION.

Moving on. Because the heist leader pays a set-up cost to get a series of missions started and because only crewmembers receive money

rewards and compensation, a logical conclusion one can draw is that Rockstar wants players to choose between control and money.

However the standard cut (55% for the leader, 15% per crewmember) set on the board by default contradicts this.

Logically, if they wanted heist leaders to give up money for control, they would not be suggesting the leader take a bigger cut.

It would make sense for the leader to get the same rewards crewmembers do OR to just have all players get 25% by default, unless changed

on the board. However, the leader's cut is a mere suggestion and the aforementioned monetary rewards are part of the game, so those (IMO)

speak more strongly than the suggestion of the leader taking 55% and that being okay.

The real greed isn't so much in the cuts themselves as it is in having the experience of being the heist leader and still wanting to get

as much money as or more money than everyone else. Since noone is limited to just a single run of each heist, you can have that experience

and STILL get a lot of money. All you have to do is play through it again as a crewmember.

Furthermore, I've seen a lot of arguments that are evidence of a terrible attitude. Some claim to be doing their random teammates a favour.

That's a joke. If anything, they're doing you a favour. You depend on these players to get the lobby filled and the mission done. They

have no ties to you whatsoever and can simply leave and find someone else who's willing to pay more. And thankfully, from what I've seen,

those players are not very rare. People have also indicated having very little teamspirit. They see themselves like protagonists from

a singleplayer mode and the other players are just NPC's there to help them. Kind of like how some autistic children* don't play with other

children except when they feel they need them in their own game, as tools.

And then we come to the most important thing of all.

As heist leader, depending on random players, what you think is fair is 100% irrelevant.

Sounds harsh, no? Sure it does. But it should be fairly obvious. You need other players to even start the mission, let alone finish it

and progress. You have control over the whole set-up, but the one thing you don't have control over, is wether they'll stay or leave.

Regardless of wether or not the cuts are fair in your opinion, if it's not fair to them, they will leave. Or worse, troll you during the mission.

You can be stubborn all you want and insist that you know better and/or deserve more, but in the end, your team has expectations, preferences

and wishes. And if they're not happy, you're going to be even more unhappy.

So. The default situation as suggested by Rockstar.

Leader gets 55%. Everyone else 15%.

Lots of players are going to take this deal without complaints because they're used to not getting more. However, if they feel like they

can squeeze more out of you, they'll try. I'd say that with these cuts, you've got (at best) a 60% chance of getting a team willing to make an

effort.

A whole other way of doing it as some people suggest..

25% for everyone.

This makes sense if you consider the fact that the heist leader chose to be the heist leader and therefor chose to not receive money

for earlier mission successes and chose to pay the set-up costs. This is the situation I assumed and I didn't factor in earlier expenses.

And far from the first situation

Heist leader takes a smaller cut than the other players.

This is for the heist leaders who are playing the game for fun and are trying to motivate the team. They'll only cover their expenses

and at best make a tiny profit that would have more easily been acquired by playing random contact missions or selling a few cars.

This is, ofcourse, the most attractive situation for random players. It's rare and they'll try harder to get that payday.

Personally I've gone by 25% around as standard situation. However, once or twice I lowered my own cut. Another time (or twice, I forgot)

my team let me have some more. Despite the choice I made to be heist leader, they agreed to let me have a bigger cut. That's not common

sense, that was pure charity on their part. Now, in my opinion, what you want to go for as heist leader with random players is the following:

40% for you. 20% for all the others.

On any finale, that's a nice sum of money. And it shows the other players that you're not greedy. It's also more than they'll get from

the vast majority of other heist leaders. Since most players are accustomed to not getting 25% or more, they'll happily take it.

So that's my suggestion. Take 15% off your cut and take it down to 40% and spread it amongst the others.

Again, it's all about what THEY'RE happy with. Because without them, you have no team. If you could show people how big their cut would be in the lobby,

that'd be easier. But as it is now, people have to actually wait for you to launch the session and then wait to see what kind of a leader

you are. They'll regret joining a team if their cut isn't big enough and simply leave. Leaving you to find new players or at least reinvite

the other two and wait for a fourth.

===========

Now, on the other side, I've also joined a few random heist missions myself. Being the heist leader is fun, but sometimes you want to

just jump into a random game too.

One common argument against crewmembers getting a decent cut has been that they can pick and choose their missions. The term "finale hoppers"

has been used a few times, I think. Well, this makes sense. But consider the following, please.

1. Set-up missions have decent pay. But they're much easier to fail than regular contact missions, especially if you play on Hard.

2. Participating in set-up missions does not guarantee the leader will invite you back for the next one or the finale.

3. What is an acceptable cut can also change by some circumstances like role of the player receiving it.

4. Playing a lower difficulty should pay less. The more money you have, the more you can divide. People like that.

1. If I am not mistaken, a set-up mission for the Pacific Standard job pays just over 26k. That's a little more than a long contact mission

will pay with four players. I was getting 25k regularly for doing Trash Talk with one other player, doing a full length run time-wise.

It's hard to fail most contact missions because even if you use up your team lives, as long as one player lives, they can finish it on

their own. And seeing how incredibly stupid so many GTA V players are, the chances of getting into any heist mission or finale and completing

it in one attempt are pretty slim. Too many people think they're Rambo and run into combat without cover or sufficient levels of health/armour.

Lots of them shoot at everything and everyone, drawing unwanted attention from authorities, startling citizens and making traffic hard to

deal with and just generally being annoying. People are bad drivers and hit other teammates or do things like chopping up parachuting players

with the Buzzard on the prison break finale, happened to me today.

There's a ton of things that can go wrong and a single mistake can mean failure. As heist leader you may not be getting paid for

set-up missions at all, but don't think most other players are quickly getting rich off them either.

Some missions like the EMP delivery are much too complicated for the average player, so it'll often be hard to get that lobby filled

with people manually accepting invitations.

2. With mission success, you're going to get your finale pay-out. If the crewmembers aren't invited back and you go with other players

instead, they're not getting that money. And that money can be several times that which they earned with a single or a few set-up missions.

If you want to complain about finale-hoppers, people first have to be given the opportunity to play through a full heist (meaning ALL the

missions, including the finale) with the same leader. Otherwise, it just makes sense that they'll go for finales whenever possible instead

of joining your lobby to get the prison bus. Give these people the chance to be your regular teammates for a heist by inviting them with the

"From last heist" option in the lobby.

3. I'm just speaking for myself here, but I like to compromise sometimes. Now before I say anything about this, I'll go on record and say

that GTA:O is not really a difficult game. No mission is too hard for a team of decent players and no individual task is too crazy

for someone with half a brain and/or a little practise.

HOWEVER. There are some roles during finales which are clearly easier than others or at least require less of an effort.

Since I have no desire to sit in a lobby for four and a half minutes, badgering a heist leader into giving me more money, I'll gladly take

15%, but only if I get one of the easy (read: easiest) jobs. One great example of this is the Pilot role in the Prison Break finale.

All you gotta do is fly around a bit, pick up some people and don't get shot down by the incredibly stupid Lazer pilots.

Are any of the rules particularly difficult or complicated? No. But going inside the prison and fighting off a small army of NOOSE agents

and prison guards requires a little more effort than holding R2 and not eating missiles.

If you're reading this now and thinking "that's bullsh*t and completely unreasonable, just take the job you're given!" I will refer you

to my earlier statement. It doesn't matter what you think is fair, it matters what your crewmembers are happy with. If your teammates

have a microphone, be sure to listen to them at all times and you might avoid conflict and attempts to troll you.

4. Everyone who has played GTA:O for a decent amount of time knows this. You play on Hard. Always. Hard in GTA:O is not actually that Hard,

but it does pay more than Easy and Normal. If you're doing all the heists for the first time, it's pointless worrying about death since

you'll probably be unprepared for at least one scenario along the way. If you're worried about dying because of the criminal mastermind

challenge that nets every teammate 10 million dollars, that doesn't make sense. You're using random crewmembers so the "same team" part of

the challenge will already be a failure, and it's only for playthroughs on Hard.

It's very annoying to get put into a lobby for Fleeca - Scope Out on Easy when you can instead be joining the finale of Pacific Standard on

Hard. Don't be surprised when you host said Fleeca mission on Easy, instantly launch it when the second player has joined and then finding

yourself without a teammate because they didn't appreciate not being able to back out earlier.

Two more things. Some people will be okay with different cuts depending on which finale is played. They might take a smaller cut on the

Pacific Standard job than on the Prison Break finale because it pays more and that's enough for them. While others will actually want more

or are fine with the same percentage all the way through.

Also keep in mind that some individual missions are less attractive than others. A prime example being the mission that people use

to glitch their way into owning a police outfit. Players will avoid joining that because they're afraid of their time being wasted.

Long story short:

-What's fair is all a matter of opinion.

-You have to keep people happy to keep them in your team.

-Basic mathematics don't apply to "real" situations with lots of other factors.

Hope this helps. Thanks for reading.

*I have plenty of firsthand of experience with lots of different people with autism. Just to be clear, this is an example of how SOME children with this diagnosis may behave at a young age. Not all people with autism are lacking in social skills.

[Murciélago]

I do it for the RP. Sorry, I only read the first 3 sentences

[NEONSTAR2000]

I'll read all this out to everyone in my heist the next time i'm sorting out payouts.

 

Thanks!

[EarthboundMysfit]

After I did the 1st heist and unlocked the Armored Kuruma I grinded RR to get the $ to buy it.

 

The Heist payout(s) were/are a huge disappointment for average invested time. Total waste, not much fun either(unless you consider loading screens as fun)!

[NEONSTAR2000]

How long did you grind RR for ?

Edited March 28, 2015 by NEONSTAR2000

[BlackMilk]

After I did the 1st heist and unlocked the Armored Kuruma I grinded RR to get the $ to buy it.

 

The Heist payout(s) were/are a huge disappointment for average invested time. Total waste, not much fun either(unless you consider loading screens as fun)!

I enjoyed my first playthrough quite a lot. As a random crewmember I'll do it for the money since it's next to impossible to do a full heist with the same team.

 

Ofcourse if you're only doing anything in this game for money, you're not going to be having a whole lot of fun.

[am30]

I got enough GTA $ and RP. I just play them for the fun.

[Error2k]

[BlackMilk]

I got enough GTA $ and RP. I just play them for the fun.

This is pretty much the ideal situation. You can take a smaller cut or even nothing at all and people will make a good effort to finish the mission.

Their motivation might be greed, but the (positive) result is the same.

 

I'm far from poor myself, but still looking to make a few million more so I can provide all my vehicles (across all my characters) of all performance upgrades. Add to that the clothing, expensive masks and a few pegasus vehicles each and I still have some saving up to do.

But that's way beyond "needing". Because all you really need is anything with wheels and a single gun.

[BlueSocks]

After I did the 1st heist and unlocked the Armored Kuruma I grinded RR to get the $ to buy it.

 

The Heist payout(s) were/are a huge disappointment for average invested time. Total waste, not much fun either(unless you consider loading screens as fun)!

 

lolol.

 

Setups take less than 10 minutes and often pay better than most missions. Even the finales often take like 10 minutes and pay out WAY better than any mission you'll ever do.

[NubcakeVII]

Very great read.

 

I admire the amount of effort you put into this.

 

I try to be a nice but fair Heist leader. I go with the 40-20-20-20 rule, because that's fair to me as a leader and a good cut for the crew.

 

Now, I haven't had much experience with Heists yet because I actually haven't been able to play much (life). But when I eventually start going into Heists like contact missions, I'm going to face these nightmares with randoms.

 

And we're just going to have to deal with greed and idiots, as that's what makes up the GTA Online community. It will never not be that way, and we'll just have to deal with it or leave.

 

But, if we want to make things better, we have to be the better people and start making these changes.

 

I guess what I'm getting at here is what the OP said: Treat your randoms nicely. Even though some may be incapable of holding a controller and can't even play when the game practically aims for them, you still depend on them. And when you find good randoms, (which, yes, IS possible) you can appreciate them and treat them with the respect they deserve. Plus, believe it or not, you're making the game a better place, no matter how small the action may be.

 

Now, this'll probably all get destroyed by some random I play with who will Rambo a mission or get his Lectro stuck in a tree (this actually happened), but remember not all are like this.

 

Just the majority, but it gives them more incentive to fail if you treat them like nothing.

[phattoni]

Yeah I always go back to help crew members or "go out of my way" to make sure they don't die. xD I gave every person 25% cut when I was heist leader. Just to get thru with it and being nice. It's been said already 15%-20% is fair. It's up to the leader at the end of the day tho.

[SupremiumHD]

Your text is all about how the leader needs the other 3 players. It's true with the setup missions but when it comes to finales that statement is complete bs. Players are dying to take the easy ticket and join straight to the heist finales without completing the painful setup missions with randoms.

People here complain that there is always someone who leaves as soon as you start a heist. Guess what? They are obviously trying to join a finale and when they quick-join a setup, they leave. Always when some random asks me for more cut, I ask him why should he get more than the others and tell him that he can be replaced easily. Because that's how it works.

And then comes the myth that people "try harder" to complete the heist when they get more cut. That is also complete bs. The randoms you get in your lobby either can do the heist or they can't do the heist. It's that simple. The trolls are in a completely different category. You can see clearly who is a troll and who is just a noob. Trolls start trolling as soon as the heist starts and the noobs keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. It has nothing to do with their cut. Give a noob like 70% of the cut and see for yourself.

[So Awesome]

[richard1997jones]

15-25% is fair. Everyone should get the same cut.

[UltimateAntic]

 

Why join a forum if your incapable of reading a long post?

[Murciélago]

 

Why join a forum if your incapable of reading a long post?

Long posts are nice, but not 25 paragraphs

[Twattir]

[Leadingman]

If only you put this kind of effort into your homework...

[Mottershead]

Don't like the 15% cut in a heist finale? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

*New random player joining*

[Pegger420]

Don't like the 15% cut in a heist finale? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

*New random player joining*

 

While I agree with your sentiment I find we have to back out completely once in the heist lobby if one douche doesn't like the cut.

 

Would be beneficial to be able to replace them from there.

[Mach1bud]

Summarize my man. Damn.

[mysteriousamg]

Just pay based on rank k/d ratio and if they have a mic or not. The setups give you time to feel out players to see if they want to sucessfully complete the whole heist.

[derek0514]

I play random heists just for fun and money.

 

I have found the payouts on these vs my time invested are not as good as certain jobs I can easily do solo like Blowup 2 and Its a Titan of a job. I do these easily at the most difficult level.

 

Generally I will log on, sell a gang car for $13 K and then decide do I want to do a job or go to the other garage location close to an area where I can fill it up with high end cars to sell.

 

Other times I will go hunting or explore missions for various reasons.

 

I try to keep the game playing to a 2 hour max and not some of the 4 hour sessions like I have. A strip club VIP visit IRL after logging off from a game session was a nice break but ate up some real money. It would have been chump change for Derek (my gta online character) with over $3 M in the bank and three properties.

 

I have started doing random heists to avoid boredom with the game but am disappointed these can crap out easily resulting in a waste of times vs doing known profitable jobs. RS needs to be innovative with sweet things players can spend money on other than supers and overpriced un-needed expensive military equipment. Why not some more houses in Vinewood Hills or upper end places in Paleto Bay. Why not some hot NPC sugar babies a player can have to decorate the inside of his house (like Michaels wife does) or even accompany him on missions paying some rate per week like the mechanic. They could even have an agency for them where the player could brouse. Instead calling it Seeking Arrangement something like Vinewood Arrangements.

 

No I am not gonna pay $1.7 for a buzzard when they can be easily shot down with a HSM. When living in PB they were easy enough to come by for free. I shoot down choopers and jets all the time from the complex outside my garage near the airport.

Edited April 11, 2015 by derek0514

[UltimateAntic]

I think 55/15/15/15 IS fair in the following situations:

 

-team consists of finale hopper

-some player may have helped in a setup, but shown to be a bit incompetent,

 

This is the situation 99,95% of the times. I also like to add that so far (no exaggerations) ALL the peeps (randoms) that asked for more ended up being very bad/incompetent player after giving them their requested cut.

 

However, if:

-player has helped me b4 and was actually competent

-player is in friends list/crew and is already proven to be a good player

 

Then I will re-addjust his/her cut to be more proper.

[richard1997jones]

I think everyone should get the same cut. Rockstar should have set it for us.

[rapidwiz]

Don't like the 15% cut in a heist finale? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

*New random player joining*

 

 

it won't hit me, it will hit you when I end the heist because you been too cheap. I won't touch a final heist for 15%, 20% or you can take the heist and shove it. Be fair.

[zombieRAGE]

If you didn't help out with any of the set ups your only getting 15% from me.

[Pegger420]

It's often true that you get what you pay for...

[KornbreadMaf1a]

 

Don't like the 15% cut in a heist finale? Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

*New random player joining*

 

 

it won't hit me, it will hit you when I end the heist because you been too cheap. I won't touch a final heist for 15%, 20% or you can take the heist and shove it. Be fair.

You end your post with be fair yet the body of your post screams do what I say or I'm taking my ball and going home.

 

15% is more than fair if you just do the heist or the heist and one or two set up missions.

 

I do like how so many people on here are willing to waste 30 minutes or more of their life to fail a heist on purpose over 5% of the final take. Must suck to have such a sh*tty life that a small amount of virtual money is worth more than your time.