Jeremy Clarkson sacked by the BBC

[hornedturtle]

 

 

How would my opinion be worth less? Being a victim is no more of a qualification than a fake online diploma you can print off. A group of people can't own a debate or treat it like an exclusive club and slap a "no .......... allowed" sign on the door.

The same reason Edmund Hilary would be more qualified to discuss mountaineering than you or I. Until you've experienced discrimination you're not as qualified to discuss its effects on an individual or a group of people because you have not f*cking experienced it.

Don't know what it's like in America, but in Australia at least, there are jobs only available to indigenous aplicants, welfare is easier to get on, there are alot more government funded programs to help non white people get back on there feet after hard times, social housing is easier to get into etc....so don't go talking sh*t about how white people can't face discrimination.

[I cucked Alex Jones]

I'm going out on a limb here and guess that whites have far higher rates of employment, and far lower rates of homelessness and poverty than the aboriginal population. Am I wrong.

[hornedturtle]

That doesn't change the fact there ARE homeless white people who get less opportunities due to their skin colour.

[Max]

That doesn't change the fact there ARE homeless white people who get less opportunities due to their skin colour.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Jeremy Clarkson or this debate.

 

The way I see it is that it is not up to you stu, or you Ottae or even Jeremy Clarkson to decide when someone should, or shouldn't feel offended. Offence is in the eye of the offended, not the offender.

 

Now, a rational, compassionate society should weigh up the merit of these individual offended parties and come to a social or legal consensus which helps to suppress widely offensive and hurtful language or behaviour. For example, I think the tumblr extremes are without merit, but they are extremes and it is hilarious to suggest that it evidence of a liberal establishment. But calling someone a racist slur is offensive and social and legal convention have thankfully agreed.

 

With regards to Clarkson; one incident sticks in my mind. When he said 'ni**er', in a nursery rhyme or not, as a joke or not. That was was offensive. That was a man in a position of particular power and influence perpetuating an ugly and hateful word against the agreed social convention.

 

As a white male I was deeply offended and embarrassed that this man still used that word so casually. I can only imagine what a black person watching may have thought watching someone with that platform make that remark.

 

The point is, the speaker is never in a position to decide if what they say or write is offensive. It is society's responsibility to decide and police the consensus on offensive terminology or behaviour and in my opinion, Clarkson has crossed that line too many times.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Max

[G's Ah's]

I reserve the right to suggest that if anyone thinks that Clarkson is a moron, that said person who made the offending utterance can go hump a cactus.

 

That is all.

[make total destroy]

 

I'm not saying you have to care, but everyone has the right to share an opinion regardless of their background. Freedom of speech and all that.

That doesn't mean their opinion has any merit at all, or that any and all opinions are acceptable because "lol free speech."

 

 

 

If you stop people speaking because of their race/sex/background (which they didn't choose), how is that not discrimination?

 

Preventing people from spouting discriminatory bullsh*t isn't discrimination lol.

[Ottae]

 

I'm not saying you have to care, but everyone has the right to share an opinion regardless of their background. Freedom of speech and all that.

That doesn't mean their opinion has any merit at all, or that any and all opinions are acceptable because "lol free speech."

 

 

If an opinion isn't offensive, why does it matter where it came from? Just because YOU might not think the opinion has merit, doesn't mean everyone feels the same. If you police who can say what, how does that make you any better than those who are discriminatory?

 

 

If you stop people speaking because of their race/sex/background (which they didn't choose), how is that not discrimination?

Preventing people from spouting discriminatory bullsh*t isn't discrimination lol.

 

 

By that logic, you're saying that all opinions from a majority are discriminatory, which isn't true.

[Coin]

 

This works on several levels.

[whats_a_username?]

@ Ottae, the idea of white people or the privileged not discussing certain issues is somewhat valid. I wouldn't hold that up as "PC GONE MAD" either. Realistically how much can you comment on racism/sexism/homophobia having not experienced it yourself?

Wow, that's just asinine. Have you ever heard of such a thing as people sharing their informed opinion or maybe studying a certain subject before stating their view on the matter? I guess psychologists can no longer declare someone insane then, unless they themselves are insane.

 

And if that's how you truly feel, then I guess you don't think that people should comment on wars either. Because if you haven't experienced it, how can you comment on it?

 

As a black man, I don't give a sh*t if white, brown, red or yellow people talk about racism.

FFS, people who have experienced racism are sometimes just as bad as people who are racist. Sometimes they are racists themselves. I know plenty of black people who think that all white folks are racists. That in itself is something b that should disqualify them from weighing in on matters concerning racism, since that is racial bias.

 

Furthermore, someone who has experienced racism will have a severely biased view on the matter. Therefore we need other people to join the debates. Otherwise, what can really get accomplished?

Edited March 13, 2015 by whats_a_username?

[make total destroy]

 

 

If an opinion isn't offensive, why does it matter where it came from?

 

 

Because we live in a white supremacist, patriarchal society, in which certain people, i.e. cis-gendered heterosexual white men, are in a position of relative privilege, and enjoy a greater deal of social power than, say, POCs, women, LGBT folks, etc. Their opinions are largely shaped by that identity and experience, as they themselves will never experience systemic oppression, and will rarely--if ever--face any sort of discrimination on a personal level due to their race, sex, gender identity, etc. In that light, their opinions on oppression/discrimination, and how minorities deal with it or feel about it, are negligible.

 

In other words, they tend to be 'out-of-touch' when it comes to these issues, and their opinions, as evidenced by many of the posts in this thread, are generally p awful.

 

 

Just because YOU might not think the opinion has merit, doesn't mean everyone feels the same.

 

 

I would argue there's no merit to that opinion.

 

 

 

If you police who can say what, how does that make you any better than those who are discriminatory?

 

 

I'm not interested in policing what people say, I'm interested in confronting backwards ideas that have no place anywhere, particularly not on a public platform like television. I hardly see how that's on par with straight up bigotry.

 

 

 

By that logic, you're saying that all opinions from a majority are discriminatory, which isn't true.

 

No, I'm saying calling out some cornbread white dude for dropping an 'n bomb' isn't discrimination. It's progress.

[whats_a_username?]

 

 

 

 

If an opinion isn't offensive, why does it matter where it came from?

 

 

Because we live in a white supremacist, patriarchal society, in which certain people, i.e. cis-gendered heterosexual white men, are in a position of relative privilege, and enjoy a greater deal of social power than, say, POCs, women, LGBT folks, etc. Their opinions are largely shaped by that identity and experience, as they themselves will never experience systemic oppression, and will rarely--if ever--face any sort of discrimination on a personal level due to their race, sex, gender identity, etc. In that light, their opinions on oppression/discrimination, and how minorities deal with it or feel about it, are negligible.

 

In other words, they tend to be 'out-of-touch' when it comes to these issues, and their opinions, as evidenced by many of the posts in this thread, are generally p awful.

 

 

Just because YOU might not think the opinion has merit, doesn't mean everyone feels the same.

 

 

I would argue there's no merit to that opinion.

 

 

 

If you police who can say what, how does that make you any better than those who are discriminatory?

 

 

I'm not interested in policing what people say, I'm interested in confronting backwards ideas that have no place anywhere, particularly not on a public platform like television. I hardly see how that's on par with straight up bigotry.

 

 

 

By that logic, you're saying that all opinions from a majority are discriminatory, which isn't true.

 

No, I'm saying calling out some cornbread white dude for dropping an 'n bomb' isn't discrimination. It's progress.

 

That screams of racial bias and sexual orientation bias.

As a black man, I find your viewpoint appauling. If you only let people who are in jeopardy of being victims of oppression to weigh in on certain subjects, you are subsequently oppressing those "white privileged men" and their opinions. Oppression can go both ways, that's why you should never exclude someone or some group of people to weigh in on subjects. That's borderline segregation, imo.

 

Btw, since you are now commenting on stuff involving "POC's, women and LGBT folks", I presume you are part of that group. Otherwise you have no place in sharing your view on those matters, according to what you've been spouting.

Edited March 13, 2015 by whats_a_username?

[Ottae]

The debate has shifted somewhat from the points about Clarkson.

 

I'm not saying Clarkson has a right to say "ni**er" or "slope" because they are derogatory terms and are inherently racist, whether or not he meant to offend anyone or not.

 

The point I was making was in light of Geth saying that NO white male is allowed an opinion on minorities, which is somewhat separate to the Clarkson debate. I find it hilarious that you're trying to create equality by giving a voice to those who are in the minority, but silencing the majority. If some people can talk and other can't, that doesn't make them equal.

 

By your logic, you can't say anything about anything unless you're an obese trans-gendered gay paraplegic muslim black woman, because otherwise you have some sort of privilege over someone else.

 

As @whats_a_username? said, racism and sexism go both ways. You can't advocate one and discourage another and say you're equal.

[make total destroy]

As a black man,

 

 

I have black neighbors. So my car is always locked. Even if I come home and I know i have to leave in 10 minutes again. I don't need those f*ckers to get any ideas. #commonsense

http://www.reddit.com/r/AsABlackMan/

 

What is with this trope? Are you trying to make yourself and other white people feel okay about holding racist views?

Edited March 13, 2015 by make total destroy

[whats_a_username?]

 

 

As a black man,

 

I have black neighbors. So my car is always locked. Even if I come home and I know i have to leave in 10 minutes again. I don't need those f*ckers to get any ideas. #commonsense

Their son was arrested for theft last year. Also, the window on the passenger side has been broken twice, but with nothing stolen.

As a black man, I'm still not trusting those people. It has nothing to do with their race, but everything to do with their f*cking degenerate son.

I just wanted to see people's reaction, and if they would form an opinion of me being racist, without knowing anything about me or my race or the overall situation. Sort of a social experiment. And it appears that you fell in that trap. Try to have all the info before forming your opinion of me. Thanks.

 

Do you trust everyone that are within your race?

Edited March 13, 2015 by whats_a_username?

[make total destroy]

 

The point I was making was in light of Geth saying that NO white male is allowed an opinion on minorities, which is somewhat separate to the Clarkson debate. I find it hilarious that you're trying to create equality by giving a voice to those who are in the minority, but silencing the majority. If some people can talk and other can't, that doesn't make them equal.

No one ever said 'some people' can't talk about oppression, they can just expected to be taken with a grain of salt, because they do not experience oppression. It's really that simple.

 

 

As @whats_a_username? said, racism and sexism go both ways.

Not within the context of existing social structures.

 

 

 

 

By your logic, you can't say anything about anything unless you're an obese trans-gendered gay paraplegic muslim black woman, because otherwise you have some sort of privilege over someone else.

Again, I never said you can't say anything, just that you'd be better off to not speak of experiences you know nothing about.

Their son was arrested for theft last year. Also, the window on the passenger side has been broken twice, but with nothing stolen.

As a black man, I'm still not trusting those people. It has nothing to do with their race, but everything to do with their f*cking degenerate son.

I just wanted to see people's reaction, and if they would form an opinion of me being racist, without knowing anything about me or my race or the overall situation. Sort of a social experiment.

Your point being?

Do you trust everyone that are within your race?

 

 

Edited March 13, 2015 by make total destroy

[whats_a_username?]

 

 

 

The point I was making was in light of Geth saying that NO white male is allowed an opinion on minorities, which is somewhat separate to the Clarkson debate. I find it hilarious that you're trying to create equality by giving a voice to those who are in the minority, but silencing the majority. If some people can talk and other can't, that doesn't make them equal.

No one ever said 'some people' can't talk about oppression, they can just expected to be taken with a grain of salt, because they do not experience oppression. It's really that simple.

 

So people's biased opinions should be taken more seriously? No, that's just stupid, because they'll be BIASED.

[make total destroy]

So people's biased opinions should be taken more seriously? No, that's just stupid, because they'll be BIASED.

 

Everyone is biased. Some even pretend to be black in an attempt to hide it.

[jatiger13]

 

Their son was arrested for theft last year. Also, the window on the passenger side has been broken twice, but with nothing stolen.

As a black man, I'm still not trusting those people. It has nothing to do with their race, but everything to do with their f*cking degenerate son.

I just wanted to see people's reaction, and if they would form an opinion of me being racist, without knowing anything about me or my race or the overall situation. Sort of a social experiment.

Your point being?

Do you trust everyone that are within your race?

 

I wasn't going to comment on this subject, because I didn't feel like I had anything to add. But since you posted that clip... he IS black, dude.

Nigerian heritage iirc lol.

Like he said, get all the info before stating your opinion of him.

[whats_a_username?]

^Ghanaian heritage on my father's side to be correct.

 

 

 

So people's biased opinions should be taken more seriously? No, that's just stupid, because they'll be BIASED.

 

Everyone is biased. Some even pretend to be black in an attempt to hide it.Not pretending, it's the way I was born. I'm not planning to go the Michael Jackson route. Edited March 13, 2015 by whats_a_username?

[YouSmellButtHoles]

To be honest he always had that racist look about him... as do all Brits.

[Ottae]

Can we please move this discussion to here, as it has little to do with a television presenter being suspended for allegedly punching a producer.

 

I don't wish to end the debate, but I feel it is better suited to the Debates and Discussion board. Any further posts in here which would be better suited to the above linked topic will be hidden.

 

 

Back on topic, here's James May's response:

 

 

 

 

Clarkson jokes about his suspension as he is ambushed by Paps:

 

 

[Ottae]

i've moved your discussion here. Please continue it there and not here.

 

Thanks.

[dante財閥]

 

 

The point I was making was in light of Geth saying that NO white male is allowed an opinion on minorities, which is somewhat separate to the Clarkson debate. I find it hilarious that you're trying to create equality by giving a voice to those who are in the minority, but silencing the majority. If some people can talk and other can't, that doesn't make them equal.

 

 

FFS, I know you've moved this discussion elsewhere now because you're a mod and you are in a position to have the last word without reprimand but seriously stop deliberately misrepresenting me and over simplifying what I've tried to say, it's beginning to f*ck me off. If you can't remain intellectually honest in a debate don't bother having the debate to begin with.

[OysterBarron]

All i know is the top gear facebook page is losing more likes than it's gaining at the moment!

[YouSmellButtHoles]

Is this the end for old dudes being filmed in luxury sports cars while their prostate rests on red leather seats?

[Pete4000uk]

Clarkson is hinting its time for him to move on. Shame it had to end this way

[TheMcSame]

Clarkson is hinting its time for him to move on. Shame it had to end this way

 

Looks like my Top Gear days are over.

[Ottae]

Is this the end for old dudes being filmed in luxury sports cars while their prostate rests on red leather seats?

 

It looks like it may well be, which is shame because I found I quite liked these old dudes being films in luxry sports cars while their prostate rests on red leather seats.

[OysterBarron]

What's even funnier is it was the bloke who pretty much invented new topgear that will be also the cause of its downfall. Any how I'm sure the BBC talent scouts are already visiting every monkey enclosure in the country to find their replacements.

[thatguy718]

Good, I hope he gets fired. I don't generally watch Top Gear, but I've never liked the guy. As it's already stated; this ain't the first time he's gone over the line with his attitude and ways.

 

A lot would say he's the life and soul of Top Gear but I think that's all based on biased opinions. He may of started the show (Forgive my knowledge if I'm wrong somewhere here), but that doesn't mean the show can't live without him. Just find someone else. I mean it's not like he's a character in an actual show like Friends, Scrubs, Star Trek, etc, he's merely the main presenter. Someone can take his place.

 

If he does get completely fired from the BBC, he's only got himself to blame and I'd be glad to see the back of him. He always used to make certain remarks about some of the cars in the show too that I wasn't fond of.