Is R* being honest about the justification of the delays?

[suisidex]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More like:

If the game releases with great optimization but doesn't run well for Totalbiscuit (because he's a giant toolbox who doesn't know what he's doing), people will be pissed at rockstar and call it horribly optimized, while repeatedly using words like "beta state" and "alpha state" as if they know what it means.

 

 

Gonna need a citation on that, when has TB done this?

 

When has totalbiscuit been a giant toolbox? Try all of his videos.

 

And heeeerrrreeee comes the TB whiteknighting.

 

 

You know that's not what I asked, when has he complained about optimization on a game that runs well in reality?

 

If a game cannot hit over 60 frames with a 980 or sli titans, the game is unoptimized, it's as simple as that.

 

That's not entirely accurate. SLI isn't a determining factor in whether something is optimized or not, because SLI isn't a priority. Is it nice to have support for it? Yeah; but if you're going to sit there and tell me Wolfenstein: The New Order was unoptimized...yeah, no. As well, there's plenty of games a single 980 doesn't max out. Your theory is fallacy, because you're basing it on maximum specs.

 

A game like Crysis 3, sure that needs two 980's and the graphics justify that but if you have a game like Unity, GTA IV and watch_dogs and you have trouble maxing out the graphics then yeah, unoptimized.

 

 

 

Well yeah, if you're going to list the 3 biggest sh*tcock ports ever on PC. No sh*t. However, your theory is still false, cause you base it on maximum specs.

 

That's what those cards are for.

Edited March 10, 2015 by suisidex

[Paladin Goo]

 

That's what those cards are for.

 

 

*never* base optimization on maximum settings. That's like, rule #1 in real performance evaluation.

Edited March 10, 2015 by McLightning

[tomm_y]

You seriously asking this? Are they honest? Man, grow up.

[suisidex]

 

 

That's what those cards are for.

 

 

*never* base optimization on maximum settings. That's like, rule #1 in real performance evaluation.

 

We don't own consoles, the 980's cost a lot for a reason and if GTA V's average fps is below 60 it's a sh*t port.

[Paladin Goo]

 

 

 

That's what those cards are for.

 

 

*never* base optimization on maximum settings. That's like, rule #1 in real performance evaluation.

 

We don't own consoles, the 980's cost a lot for a reason and if GTA V's average fps is below 60 it's a sh*t port.

 

I own 2 980s myself, they do max everything out. That's not the point, though. THE POINT IS, and STICK WITH ME HERE, if you base optimization on how a game performs at MAXIMUM SPECS, you're DOING IT WRONG.

 

Judging a games performance at maximum settings is enormously counter productive.

 

Performance at "max" settings, without context and deep understanding what these settings entail, is completely irrelevant for judging the technical quality of a game, and it's highly damaging how often it seems to be used to evaluate the same.

 

These days, many people seem to judge the "optimization" (a broadly misunderstood term if I ever saw one!) of games on how they run at "max" settings. What does this mean in practise? Let's say I'm porting a game to PC, and I'm trying to decide which options to include. I could easily add the option of rendering shadow depth buffers at 32 bit precision and up to 4096x4096 instead of the 16 bit and 1024² default. But what would this actually cause to happen? Basically, it will improve IQ and image stability, especially at very high resolution. However, let's assume for the sake of argument that it also halves the framerate of my port, when enabled.

 

In the prevailing simplistic mindset, I just went from a "great, optimized port" to a "piece of sh*t port showing how my company is disrespectful of PC gamers" merely by adding an option to my game (and there's a ton of options that aren't obvious that can do this).

 

I hope everyone can see how f*cking insane this is. As a developer aware of this, I basically have 2 options:

1. Only allow access to higher-end settings via some ini file or other method which is not easily accessible.
2. Simply don't bother with higher-end settings at all.

The first point wouldn't be too bad, but it seems like the much more rare choice. If the prevailing opinion of my game's technical quality actually goes down by including high-end options, then why bother at all?

 

Of course, gamers are not to blame for this exclusively. Review sites got into the habit of benchmarking only "max" settings, especially during the latter part of the PS360 generation, simply because GPUs wouldn't be challenged at all in the vast majority of games otherwise.

 

Judging games by such an arbitrary metric is retarded.

Edited March 10, 2015 by McLightning

[ItsJustMeSrsly]

Even if they are being indeed honest (which i doubt), it still doesn't justify them, because delaying the same game so many times means you are doing it wrong, which also puts your professionalism into question...I've never seen anyone failing as much as R* when it comes to releasing games in time! This kind of inconsistency on such high level is unacceptable (if THAT is the case, which's like i said i doubt!...)! Especially since we are talking about R* here and not some indie on much lesser scale known developer!...If you position yourself as one of the most successful and famous developers, then you should meet the standards you set for yourself, because this is a requirement and in this particular area R* demonstrates themselves as immature and inconsistent developing team, that is incapable of getting things done on the most basic and simple level...So they need to come out with all these "polishing" excuses each time they fail...disgusting! Simply disgusting and very very shameful, unworthy of someone with such a big and well recognized name that is R*! Way to downgrade your hardly owned reputation to junk...

Edited March 10, 2015 by ItsJustMeSrsly

[Seeyiyay]

Metal Gear Solid V : Ground Zeroes it's one of the best ports of all time, and although the map is very small compared to GTA V, it has excellent graphics, runs very well, and the last game this people released on PC was MGS2 back in 2001-2002. and the FPS are always steady no matter what, and the game was given a specific date for PC and never delayed, all this with a team with barely any experience on PC.

 

MGS5 hasn't been delayed yet because it's nowhere near close to the anticipated release date (September 15th 2015). Konami seems to have developed a strategy to make people buy the game twice, particularly for the PS4 because hey, Sony loyalists. IF Konami is honest with their release date, I will buy their game to support their honesty. Hopefully this will add more potential for more Japanese games to come to PC.

[samneseema]

Try running Max Payne 3 on 8400GS (non-supported, very old). It still runs on 20fps

 

 

Now that's some optimization

[Kampret]

 

 

 

 

 

More like:

If the game releases with great optimization but doesn't run well for Totalbiscuit (because he's a giant toolbox who doesn't know what he's doing), people will be pissed at rockstar and call it horribly optimized, while repeatedly using words like "beta state" and "alpha state" as if they know what it means.

 

 

Gonna need a citation on that, when has TB done this?

 

When has totalbiscuit been a giant toolbox? Try all of his videos.

 

And heeeerrrreeee comes the TB whiteknighting.

 

 

You know that's not what I asked, when has he complained about optimization on a game that runs well in reality?

 

If a game cannot hit over 60 frames with a 980 or sli titans, the game is unoptimized, it's as simple as that.

 

 

You talk as if there were no such thing as Graphical settings. It could be running on 4K or SSAA 8x ffs. Are you seriously expecting a 980, even in SLI, to attain 60 FPS on Crysis 3 with all settings maxed up and on 4K?

[ALPHATT]

http://gtaforums.com/topic/770912-gtav-pc-exclusives/?p=1067078961

[samneseema]

 

Sayin for the third time

Edited March 10, 2015 by samneseema

[Fubarbrickdust]

 

Sayin for the third time

 

I can confirm this ^ it's updated and on my PS3 right now...and on schedule! - Although I'm not even touching heists on PS3...I'm waiting for the PC release so I can hit that sh!t up with my Steam buddies/Crew...yup!

 

In my mind, that's one of the major would be-potential-for-a-reason-to-delay-PC version factors out of the way!...if they had made a delay to heists, no matter how small, I would have put money on it having a knock on effect to the PC release...

 

Phew!

 

EDIT: However - 1 down, any number of reasons that could be plucked out of the ether to go! - fingers still need crossing!

Edited March 10, 2015 by Fubarbrickdust

[Koger]

Now , with the release of Assassin's Creed Rogue I kinda wish more games would've been ported to PC by them. That game runs at maximum settings , 1080p and constant 60fps on an i3 3210 , 4GB of RAM and a GTX 750 Ti. You have to admit that is quite amazing.

 

As for the delays.. Maybe the first two ones were justified but the third one is just to start selling GTA V PC in the new fiscal year of Take Two and get a nice boost at the beginning.

[Avskygod0]

actualy "polish" meant they are translating the game into Polish

[Antaxi]

 

 

Sayin for the third time

 

Not only this, but Heists has been released (confirmed as it's updated and on my PS3 right now) on schedule! - In my mind, that's one of the major would be-potential-for-a-reason-to-delay-PC version factors out of the way!...if they had made a delay to heists, no matter how small, I would have put money on it having a knock on effect to the PC release...

 

Phew!

 

EDIT: However - 1 down, any number of reasons that could be plucked out of the ether to go! - fingers still need crossing!

 

heist not affected to their decision to delay the pc version

its 2 weeks till old release date at march 24 i think its such a time to fixed everything

now their decision to delay pc version depends of polishing and not heist

Edited March 10, 2015 by Antaxi

[Yoona]

 

 

 

Sayin for the third time

 

Not only this, but Heists has been released (confirmed as it's updated and on my PS3 right now) on schedule! - In my mind, that's one of the major would be-potential-for-a-reason-to-delay-PC version factors out of the way!...if they had made a delay to heists, no matter how small, I would have put money on it having a knock on effect to the PC release...

 

Phew!

 

EDIT: However - 1 down, any number of reasons that could be plucked out of the ether to go! - fingers still need crossing!

 

heist not affected to their decision to delay the pc version

its 2 weeks till old release date at march 24

 

It might have... they want it working day one on PC, and it's 3 weeks not 2.

[RedIndianRobin]

If you are unhappy with Rockstar, you can play Ubisoft games

You're saying as if Ubi makes crappy games. Yeah I know they have optimized their recent games like crap but AC Rogue is THE BEST OPTIMIZED GAME till date. Do a bit of research. Atleast Ubi are trying to fix it. And no one not even R* could make historical games with heart-touching OSTs like Ubi.

 

On-topic:

I voted No cuz delaying the game 3 times for the same reason makes no sense to me. There is either something seriously wrong with the development or a pure marketing strategy by R*. Unfortunately we'll never know the answer to this.

 

And to McLightning: TB is the only Reviewer who gives unbiased reviews of every game. The way he explains each and every detail of a PC game is not done by any other people. And yes, if a game does not run 60fps maxed out on quad SLI 980s, then it is horribly optimized. WTH are you thinking?

[Fubarbrickdust]

heist not affected to their decision to delay the pc version

 

 

 

 

its 2 weeks till old release date at march 24

 

 

...I'm just saying - it's ONE of the factors (and potentially a large one) that may have led to another PC delay. I'm just glad it's hit on schedule...trying to be an optimist, 'glass half full' and such. y'dig?

[Antaxi]

 

heist not affected to their decision to delay the pc version

 

 

 

 

its 2 weeks till old release date at march 24

 

 

...I'm just saying - it's ONE of the factors (and potentially a large one) that may have led to another PC delay. I'm just glad it's hit on schedule...trying to be an optimist, 'glass half full' and such. y'dig?

 

 

i hope no delay at all

i'm just trying to think why they doing some sh*t exactly like that and not otherwise

[cdgl]

 

Metal Gear Solid V : Ground Zeroes it's one of the best ports of all time, and although the map is very small compared to GTA V, it has excellent graphics, runs very well, and the last game this people released on PC was MGS2 back in 2001-2002. and the FPS are always steady no matter what, and the game was given a specific date for PC and never delayed, all this with a team with barely any experience on PC.

 

MGS5 hasn't been delayed yet because it's nowhere near close to the anticipated release date (September 15th 2015). Konami seems to have developed a strategy to make people buy the game twice, particularly for the PS4 because hey, Sony loyalists. IF Konami is honest with their release date, I will buy their game to support their honesty. Hopefully this will add more potential for more Japanese games to come to PC.

 

 

 

Ground Zeroes, not the Phantom Pain.

 

The PC version for The Phantom Pain only comes out 2 weeks later.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cdgl

[KyojinEM]

You're saying as if Ubi makes crappy games. Yeah I know they have optimized their recent games like crap but AC Rogue is THE BEST OPTIMIZED GAME till date. Do a bit of research. Atleast Ubi are trying to fix it. And no one not even R* could make historical games with heart-touching OSTs like Ubi

Never played Red Dead, Grand Theft Auto Vice City, The Warriors, LA Noire , did you ?

There are you "historical" games with very good OSTs

Rockstar cares about music in their games a lot

I like Ubi but they ruin Assassin Creed , the first came out 2007 and there are already more AC title ( i think 25 ) than Grand Theft Auto games ( 14 )

i dont like their copy and past games anymore cough Far Cry 4

The only reason i like Ubisoft nowadays is because they make cool little games ♥

Edited March 10, 2015 by emiliumium

[Paladin Goo]

 

And to McLightning: TB is the only Reviewer who gives unbiased reviews of every game. The way he explains each and every detail of a PC game is not done by any other people. And yes, if a game does not run 60fps maxed out on quad SLI 980s, then it is horribly optimized. WTH are you thinking?

 

He's not a reviewer, he's a gimmick. Even according to himself, he's not a reviewer. That fact that he's looked at as the poster boy for PC gamers makes me sick. He's also inconsistent. He'll go and judge a game on whether it supports SLI (which isn't a factor in being "optimized". As an SLI owner myself, even I know it's "niche"), then turn around and give Wolfenstein: The New Order his game of the year. TNO was FAMOUS for not supporting SLI. And again, you need to brush up on your knowledge of "optimized", just like he does. Besides, who the hell runs quad SLI for anything other than folding? In games they scale horribly. That's much less to do with optimization, and much more to do with knowing how to properly configure a gaming system. QUAD SLI is not going to give anyone a good experience.

 

His brand of "detailed" analysis is done by plenty. He's just to only one with 2 million subscribers, thus the only one you pay attention to. He's nothing but a gimmick; but hey, if you want to swing off his nutsack, that's your prerogative. He's seems to be good at making the naive think he's educated.

Edited March 10, 2015 by McLightning

[Suprix]

The polishing might be real:

 

http://www.gamedev.net/topic/666419-what-are-your-opinions-on-dx12vulkanmantle/?do=findComment&comment=5215019

 

"The first lesson is: Nearly every game ships broken. We're talking major AAA titles from vendors who are everyday names in the industry. In some cases, we're talking about blatant violations of API rules - one D3D9 game never even called BeginFrame/EndFrame. Some are mistakes or oversights - one shipped bad shaders that heavily impacted performance on NV drivers. These things were day to day occurrences that went into a bug tracker. Then somebody would go in, find out what the game screwed up, and patch the driver to deal with it. There are lots of optional patches already in the driver that are simply toggled on or off as per-game settings, and then hacks that are more specific to games - up to and including total replacement of the shipping shaders with custom versions by the driver team. Ever wondered why nearly every major game release is accompanied by a matching driver release from AMD and/or NVIDIA? There you go."

Maybe Rockstar is trying to release a healthy and reliable game to avoid the classic stuff that players tend to suffer when a big game comes out. I don't know.

[RedIndianRobin]

 

You're saying as if Ubi makes crappy games. Yeah I know they have optimized their recent games like crap but AC Rogue is THE BEST OPTIMIZED GAME till date. Do a bit of research. Atleast Ubi are trying to fix it. And no one not even R* could make historical games with heart-touching OSTs like Ubi

Never played Red Dead, Grand Theft Auto Vice City, The Warriors, LA Noire , did you ?

There are you "historical" games with very good OSTs

Rockstar cares about music in their games a lot

I like Ubi but they ruin Assassin Creed , the first came out 2007 and there are already more AC title ( i think 25 ) than Grand Theft Auto games ( 14 )

i dont like their copy and past games anymore cough Far Cry 4

The only reason i like Ubisoft nowadays is because they make cool little games ♥

 

Red Dead? Nope. It never came to PC. Warriors? Dahell is that? Vice City? I agree, best GTA ever done. LA Noire? Made by Team Bondi and published by R*. Rockstar are a great company. I never said no to that. But Ubisoft are no joke too. If they can put a little more effort and concentrate on the technical side of their games, i am sure they'll come back as they were before. I agree they completely ruined AC but Rogue says otherwise. That game has the most dark story ever in the franchise. You should play it yourself. I feel they will come back on track some day just like EA is coming back on track now. Conclusion: Rockstar and Ubisoft are good in their own ways. Only an ignorant fool can deny that.(I'm not saying you.)

 

 

 

 

And to McLightning: TB is the only Reviewer who gives unbiased reviews of every game. The way he explains each and every detail of a PC game is not done by any other people. And yes, if a game does not run 60fps maxed out on quad SLI 980s, then it is horribly optimized. WTH are you thinking?

 

He's not a reviewer, he's a gimmick. Even according to himself, he's not a reviewer. That fact that he's looked at as the poster boy for PC gamers makes me sick. He's also inconsistent. He'll go and judge a game on whether it supports SLI (which isn't a factor in being "optimized". As an SLI owner myself, even I know it's "niche"), then turn around and give Wolfenstein: The New Order his game of the year. TNO was FAMOUS for not supporting SLI. And again, you need to brush up on your knowledge of "optimized", just like he does. Besides, who the hell runs quad SLI for anything other than folding? In games they scale horribly. That's much less to do with optimization, and much more to do with knowing how to properly configure a gaming system. QUAD SLI is not going to give anyone a good experience.

 

His brand of "detailed" analysis is done by plenty. He's just to only one with 2 million subscribers, thus the only one you pay attention to. He's nothing but a gimmick; but hey, if you want to swing off his nutsack, that's your prerogative. He's seems to be good at making the naive think he's educated.

 

Whatever. You seem to not like that guy. I like to see his reviews. Not gonna question your opinion here. So peace.

Edited March 10, 2015 by RedIndianRobin

[Paladin Goo]

 

 

You're saying as if Ubi makes crappy games. Yeah I know they have optimized their recent games like crap but AC Rogue is THE BEST OPTIMIZED GAME till date. Do a bit of research. Atleast Ubi are trying to fix it. And no one not even R* could make historical games with heart-touching OSTs like Ubi

Never played Red Dead, Grand Theft Auto Vice City, The Warriors, LA Noire , did you ?

There are you "historical" games with very good OSTs

Rockstar cares about music in their games a lot

I like Ubi but they ruin Assassin Creed , the first came out 2007 and there are already more AC title ( i think 25 ) than Grand Theft Auto games ( 14 )

i dont like their copy and past games anymore cough Far Cry 4

The only reason i like Ubisoft nowadays is because they make cool little games ♥

 

Red Dead? Nope. It never came to PC. Warriors? Dahell is that? Vice City? I agree, best GTA ever done. LA Noire? Made by Team Bondi and published by R*. Rockstar are a great company. I never said no to that. But Ubisoft are no joke too. If they can put a little more effort and concentrate on the technical side of their games, i am sure they'll come back as they were before. I agree they completely ruined AC but Rogue says otherwise. That game has the most dark story ever in the franchise. You should play it yourself. I feel they will come back on track some day just like EA is coming back on track now. Conclusion: Rockstar and Ubisoft are good in their own ways. Only an ignorant fool can deny that.(I'm not saying you.)

 

 

 

 

And to McLightning: TB is the only Reviewer who gives unbiased reviews of every game. The way he explains each and every detail of a PC game is not done by any other people. And yes, if a game does not run 60fps maxed out on quad SLI 980s, then it is horribly optimized. WTH are you thinking?

 

He's not a reviewer, he's a gimmick. Even according to himself, he's not a reviewer. That fact that he's looked at as the poster boy for PC gamers makes me sick. He's also inconsistent. He'll go and judge a game on whether it supports SLI (which isn't a factor in being "optimized". As an SLI owner myself, even I know it's "niche"), then turn around and give Wolfenstein: The New Order his game of the year. TNO was FAMOUS for not supporting SLI. And again, you need to brush up on your knowledge of "optimized", just like he does. Besides, who the hell runs quad SLI for anything other than folding? In games they scale horribly. That's much less to do with optimization, and much more to do with knowing how to properly configure a gaming system. QUAD SLI is not going to give anyone a good experience.

 

His brand of "detailed" analysis is done by plenty. He's just to only one with 2 million subscribers, thus the only one you pay attention to. He's nothing but a gimmick; but hey, if you want to swing off his nutsack, that's your prerogative. He's seems to be good at making the naive think he's educated.

 

Whatever. You seem to not like that guy. I like to see his reviews. Not gonna question your opinion here. So peace.

 

He doesn't do reviews. He's not a reviewer; and I have nothing personal against him, really. I just detest his lack of knowledge in 80% of the things he discusses (most prominent being the term "optimized" and "port"), and the fact that he says this crap, and later on people come to boards like this with slightly less brain cells thinking they know what they're talking about.

[eastriver]

Delays aren't in Rockstar's best interest.

They won't delay unless if they really have to.

[MD_Shardul]

Delays aren't in Rockstar's best interest.

 

They won't delay unless if they really have to.

 

No they aren't in Rockstar's best interest, but the last delay seems like it might have been in T2's best interest.

 

But I agree that this time they will only delay the game (god forbid) if they really have to.

[Rusev]

"Is R* being honest about the justification of the delays?"

 

After 4 delays, with which the justification for most of them was "polish", no. It should be pretty obvious.

[Paladin Goo]

"Is R* being honest about the justification of the delays?"

 

After 4 delays, with which the justification for most of them was "polish", no. It should be pretty obvious.

It's been 3. Not 4.

[SuperSaiyanHazza]

Fall 2014---->27.1---->24.3---->14.4

4delays?