Religion

[Glass Cloud]

Lol looks like I pissed of some children. And LOL at you assuming all religion are the same. There's more out there than just the Christian bible, but you you wouldn't have learned that on reddit

[mr quick]

Lol looks like I pissed of some children. And LOL at you assuming all religion are the same. There's more out there than just the Christian bible, but you you wouldn't have learned that on reddit

 

If you anything at all, you'd know that Christendom is the largest of all religions. I'm not assuming sh*t, how the f*ck do you deduct that idiocy from my very easy-to-understand post? I'm using the Christian bible as an example (although not everything with which I exemplified was from the New Testament) because it is the most common.

 

You're making deductions that are beyond the point. You have no idea what you're on about, do you know where I work?

Edited February 20, 2015 by Marwin Moody

[Absurdity]

How can there be any sort of a heaven if you go to it in the knowledge that those who didn't believe, or where born through no control of their own in to the "wrong" religion are burning for eternity in hell?

Edited March 3, 2015 by Rusty Balls

[mr quick]

 

How can there be any sort of a heaven if you go to it in the knowledge that those who didn't believe, or where born through no control of their own in to the "wrong" religion are burning for eternity in hell?

 

Also, how can there be any sort of heaven when it is physically impossible?

 

Side note- The Adventist's perspective on heaven is more realistic than the usual.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Marwin Moody

[Majestic81]

 

Religion is just mind control.

 

It is a shame you seek the comfort of the Archons with sentimentality and escapism yourself, though I suppose retreating into reactionary worldviews and avoiding the ambiguity that keeps you up at night is the natural tendency for pleasure-seeking animals in a pleasure-seeking society. It's funny that you think religion is just mind control; the broad metric with which you apply that label makes everything under the sun a form of mind control. What is society but force and coercion? What is education but selected information that those in control claim is the correct path to enlightened disposition? What is entertainment but a tool for pacification? Consideration should be taken before you assert claims like this.

 

Do you always think like that or only when you're high?

 

its mind control because it turns you an obedient meek. it tells people what to do, whats right and whats is sin. it tells you what to think about (prayer and worship only) and what to not think about, dont do this, dont do that. its all restrictions. and at the end for what? because there is an invisible dude in the sky? if he exists or is as powerful as the books claims then the world wouldnt have so much f*cked up sh*t in it.

 

You dont need a book to tell you how to think. end of story.

[AlienTwo]

Lol looks like I pissed of some children. And LOL at you assuming all religion are the same. There's more out there than just the Christian bible, but you you wouldn't have learned that on reddit

No sh*t Sherlock, I reckon everyone on this thread is well aware these is more than Christianity around. What I took offense to was the high and mighty attitude you displayed... I am fairly anti-religion but I don't make it a point of battle as I see how some people can use religion for the betterment of themselves and their communities. The basic principal of Christanity (love thy neighbor and forgive thy enemy) is beautiful and can be used for massive good. The statement that simply because you no longer do a certain thing you are obviously more advanced is an arrogant f*ck-tard of a thing to think, and even worse to utter aloud(or post).

 

I used to think that very same way... then I became an adult.

[Fonz]

Lol looks like I pissed of some children. And LOL at you assuming all religion are the same. There's more out there than just the Christian bible, but you you wouldn't have learned that on reddit

Some children? I think religious apologists piss off anyone with a minimal sense of decency. I used to be reli- oh, wait, no I didn`t. I was never force fed archaic, premium bullsh*t. Edited February 20, 2015 by Black_MiD

[feckyerlife]

whatever happen to Ra, did people get tired of worshiping him

[the ironic one]

 

 

How can there be any sort of a heaven if you go to it in the knowledge that those who didn't believe, or where born through no control of their own in to the "wrong" religion are burning for eternity in hell?

 

Also, how can there be any sort of heaven when it is physically impossible?

 

Side note- The Adventist's perspective on heaven is more realistic than the usual.

 

We don't know about that. In fact, we know very little about the universe. I suggest to study physics a little to find out how little we know about this world. It doesn't mean that I support classic Christian beliefs about heaven or any others. I just know how little I know. Probably I'll will know the truth when I die or I will go to sleep forever.

[Fonz]

whatever happen to Ra, did people get tired of worshiping him

Lol, get with the times, bro. It`s all about the lord and savior Spaghetti Monster now.

[mr quick]

 

Lol looks like I pissed of some children. And LOL at you assuming all religion are the same. There's more out there than just the Christian bible, but you you wouldn't have learned that on reddit

No sh*t Sherlock, I reckon everyone on this thread is well aware these is more than Christianity around. What I took offense to was the high and mighty attitude you displayed... I am fairly anti-religion but I don't make it a point of battle as I see how some people can use religion for the betterment of themselves and their communities. The basic principal of Christanity (love thy neighbor and forgive thy enemy) is beautiful and can be used for massive good. The statement that simply because you no longer do a certain thing you are obviously more advanced is an arrogant f*ck-tard of a thing to think, and even worse to utter aloud(or post).

 

I used to think that very same way... then I became an adult.

 

Actually, Jesus Christ himself says in the very beginning of the New Testament:

 

"Think not that I have come to repeal the law or the prophets! I have not come to repeal, but to fulfill. Verily I say unto you: Before heaven and earth perish, shall not any letter or a single jot in the law perish"

 

(if the translation is off, sorry, I literally translated it right now from my own bible)

 

In other words, the basic principles of Christianity are not limited to love. They also include the things I mentioned before.

 

 

Mods, please don't lock this. I want to have a serious discussion about this with apologists.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Marwin Moody

[feckyerlife]

 

whatever happen to Ra, did people get tired of worshiping him

Lol, get with the times, bro. It`s all about the lord and savior Spaghetti Monster now.

 

lol or him

 

[AlienTwo]

 

 

Lol looks like I pissed of some children. And LOL at you assuming all religion are the same. There's more out there than just the Christian bible, but you you wouldn't have learned that on reddit

No sh*t Sherlock, I reckon everyone on this thread is well aware these is more than Christianity around. What I took offense to was the high and mighty attitude you displayed... I am fairly anti-religion but I don't make it a point of battle as I see how some people can use religion for the betterment of themselves and their communities. The basic principal of Christanity (love thy neighbor and forgive thy enemy) is beautiful and can be used for massive good. The statement that simply because you no longer do a certain thing you are obviously more advanced is an arrogant f*ck-tard of a thing to think, and even worse to utter aloud(or post).

 

I used to think that very same way... then I became an adult.

 

Actually, Jesus Christ himself says in the very beginning of the New Testament:

 

"Think not that I have come to repeal the law or the prophets! I have not come to repeal, but to fulfill. Verily I say unto you: Before heaven and earth perish, shall not any letter or a single jot in the law perish"

 

(if the translation is off, sorry, I literally translated it right now from my own bible)

 

In other words, the basic principles of Christianity are not limited to love. They also include the things I mentioned before.

 

 

Mods, please don't lock this. I want to have a serious discussion about this with apologists.

 

They aren't, I didn't mean to boil the entire religion down to two concepts. My point was that there is a lot in the teachings of Jesus that I can really get behind, things that if we all could get behind the world would be such a better place. But there is so much in the organization of the religion, the different sects, the different interpretations, that moves the religion from the Venn diagram circle of good into neutral and even farther into evil. I see this with most all the religions I have studied, Islam, as our president keeps reminding us, means "Peace" but those who control the majority of worshipers today have created a model for death, violence and evil. But it wasn't that way throughout all of time. As I referenced before, during the reign and height of power of the Ottoman Empire Islam was "Peace", Islam was civilization and the "west" was much closer to what we see in the war-torn mid-east right now.

 

Which is the main reason I am not an avid anti-Christian activist. My parents-in-law are crazy devout, and their church is one of the bad ones focusing on how evil the "homosexual lifestyle" is, but they don't believe that themselves... why keep attending that church? I don't know. I've never asked...

 

My mother, however, has found Jesus since my dad died 20 years ago, she said he came to her in a dream and told her that "we were wrong, heaven is real". She never pushes her religion on us or anyone, doesn't attend church but reads the bible and worships in her own way, only trying to be a better person. I see that and I see how this can be used for good... but it most often isn't.

 

I think many modern church leaders could go for a little Uncle Ben in their lives; "With great power comes great responsibility."

[Fonz]

@Alien, I can understand that, but older thinkers had good ideas about empathy and love long before the New Testament. Confucius, for example, expressed the Golden Rule of reciprocity. Christianity just pretty much appropriated those teachings (and added a whole lot of nasty behaviour in between)

Edited February 20, 2015 by Black_MiD

[I cucked Alex Jones]

[mr quick]

 

 

 

Lol looks like I pissed of some children. And LOL at you assuming all religion are the same. There's more out there than just the Christian bible, but you you wouldn't have learned that on reddit

No sh*t Sherlock, I reckon everyone on this thread is well aware these is more than Christianity around. What I took offense to was the high and mighty attitude you displayed... I am fairly anti-religion but I don't make it a point of battle as I see how some people can use religion for the betterment of themselves and their communities. The basic principal of Christanity (love thy neighbor and forgive thy enemy) is beautiful and can be used for massive good. The statement that simply because you no longer do a certain thing you are obviously more advanced is an arrogant f*ck-tard of a thing to think, and even worse to utter aloud(or post).

 

I used to think that very same way... then I became an adult.

 

Actually, Jesus Christ himself says in the very beginning of the New Testament:

 

"Think not that I have come to repeal the law or the prophets! I have not come to repeal, but to fulfill. Verily I say unto you: Before heaven and earth perish, shall not any letter or a single jot in the law perish"

 

(if the translation is off, sorry, I literally translated it right now from my own bible)

 

In other words, the basic principles of Christianity are not limited to love. They also include the things I mentioned before.

 

 

Mods, please don't lock this. I want to have a serious discussion about this with apologists.

 

They aren't, I didn't mean to boil the entire religion down to two concepts. My point was that there is a lot in the teachings of Jesus that I can really get behind, things that if we all could get behind the world would be such a better place. But there is so much in the organization of the religion, the different sects, the different interpretations, that moves the religion from the Venn diagram circle of good into neutral and even farther into evil. I see this with most all the religions I have studied, Islam, as our president keeps reminding us, means "Peace" but those who control the majority of worshipers today have created a model for death, violence and evil. But it wasn't that way throughout all of time. As I referenced before, during the reign and height of power of the Ottoman Empire Islam was "Peace", Islam was civilization and the "west" was much closer to what we see in the war-torn mid-east right now.

 

Which is the main reason I am not an avid anti-Christian activist. My parents-in-law are crazy devout, and their church is one of the bad ones focusing on how evil the "homosexual lifestyle" is, but they don't believe that themselves... why keep attending that church? I don't know. I've never asked...

 

My mother, however, has found Jesus since my dad died 20 years ago, she said he came to her in a dream and told her that "we were wrong, heaven is real". She never pushes her religion on us or anyone, doesn't attend church but reads the bible and worships in her own way, only trying to be a better person. I see that and I see how this can be used for good... but it most often isn't.

 

I think many modern church leaders could go for a little Uncle Ben in their lives; "With great power comes great responsibility."

 

I think it's weak of people to only believe parts of the bible; then, who is the arbiter of what is real and what is not? That takes apart the entire point of a dogmatic book. If it is the absolute and only truth, then why can we pick and choose?

 

Christianity is not a peaceful religion. The inquisition was rooted in the teachings of the bible.

 

 

Eris: You're a self-gratifying asshole for perpetuating the stereotype in the picture. Don't try to derail the thread with your juvenile humor.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Marwin Moody

[Fonz]

-snip-

I had a slight impression that you tried to be funny.

 

If anyone thinks Christianity is a vehicle for peace, may I redirect you to Matthew 10:34-38?

 

"34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,

a daughter against her mother,

a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[a]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me."

 

Sounds a bit like something a totalitarian leader would say, especially 37. Cult of personality right there, a fanatical encouragement for blind, unquestioned obedience and mindless violence (against one's next-of-kin) as long as it serves the leader's interests.

 

And that's just one instance out of dozens of atrocities that I could have picked (from a purported vehicle for peace and tolerance).

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2015 by Black_MiD

[Man-Django]

The most powerful force in our world is mother nature. She answers to no one and makes me consider becoming a Wiccan, maybe sacrifice one or two noobs. Other gods want you to love them... and oh yeah bring them gold. The gold trades always been a peaceful one... ain't it?!

Edited February 20, 2015 by TheMckeever

[Fonz]

The most powerful force in our world is mother nature. She answers to no one and makes me consider becoming a Wiccan, maybe sacrifice one or two noobs.

Take Eris, then. The world could really use fewer assholes...

Edited February 20, 2015 by Black_MiD

[AlienTwo]

@Alien, I can understand that, but older thinkers had good ideas about empathy and love long before the New Testament. Confucius, for example, expressed the Golden Rule of reciprocity. Christianity just pretty much appropriated those teachings (and added a whole lot of nasty behaviour in between)

Oh, totally, I agree. Buddhism also has great teachings regarding love and peace. I was only using that as an example on how differently a single religion can be both interpreted and taught.

 

I think it's weak of people to only believe parts of the bible; then, who is the arbiter of what is real and what is not? That takes apart the entire point of a dogmatic book. If it is the absolute and only truth, then why can we pick and choose?

 

 

Christianity is not a peaceful religion. The inquisition was rooted in the teachings of the bible.

 

 

Eris: You're a self-gratifying asshole for perpetuating the stereotype in the picture. Don't try to derail the thread.

 

I don't know, Marwin, I don't agree that it is weak to pick and choose a set of values from any source. Reading about the Buddhist respect for all life, the cycles of birth and re-birth and wanting to hold on to simply the 4 Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path while discounting the reincarnation concepts as well as the concept of samsara or nirvana doesn't strike me as weak. It strikes me as intelligent and questioning, life isn't a zero-sum game, you don't have to believe in A to believe in B, you can love the concept of forgiveness and compassion while decrying the hate and bigotry present as the other-side of that coin.

 

Yes, the Inquisition was rooted in the bible, so were the crusades, the enslavement and destruction of the native populations met by Cortez, Pizarro and Columbus and even the bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building. But so was the formation of the Bonfils blood center, the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights, the Red Cross and even Isaac Newton (who did things to prove the beatuy of God's creation). Religion can be used for both good and ill, just because ill is the more common result doesn't mean that good doesn't exist.

[mr quick]

 

@Alien, I can understand that, but older thinkers had good ideas about empathy and love long before the New Testament. Confucius, for example, expressed the Golden Rule of reciprocity. Christianity just pretty much appropriated those teachings (and added a whole lot of nasty behaviour in between)

Oh, totally, I agree. Buddhism also has great teachings regarding love and peace. I was only using that as an example on how differently a single religion can be both interpreted and taught.

 

I think it's weak of people to only believe parts of the bible; then, who is the arbiter of what is real and what is not? That takes apart the entire point of a dogmatic book. If it is the absolute and only truth, then why can we pick and choose?

 

 

Christianity is not a peaceful religion. The inquisition was rooted in the teachings of the bible.

 

 

Eris: You're a self-gratifying asshole for perpetuating the stereotype in the picture. Don't try to derail the thread.

 

I don't know, Marwin, I don't agree that it is weak to pick and choose a set of values from any source. Reading about the Buddhist respect for all life, the cycles of birth and re-birth and wanting to hold on to simply the 4 Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path while discounting the reincarnation concepts as well as the concept of samsara or nirvana doesn't strike me as weak. It strikes me as intelligent and questioning, life isn't a zero-sum game, you don't have to believe in A to believe in B, you can love the concept of forgiveness and compassion while decrying the hate and bigotry present as the other-side of that coin.

 

Yes, the Inquisition was rooted in the bible, so were the crusades, the enslavement and destruction of the native populations met by Cortez, Pizarro and Columbus and even the bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building. But so was the formation of the Bonfils blood center, the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights, the Red Cross and even Isaac Newton (who did things to prove the beatuy of God's creation). Religion can be used for both good and ill, just because ill is the more common result doesn't mean that good doesn't exist.

 

 

You make a good point, Alien. My point remains, though, that if one gets to pick and choose arbitrarily from a doctrine, it completely loses its value.

[AlienTwo]

 

You make a good point, Alien. My point remains, though, that if one gets to pick and choose arbitrarily from a doctrine, it completely loses its value.

 

As doctrine, yes. But... didn't we all play Mass Effect to stop indoctrinations? I joke, but seriously, maybe a bunch of independently minded people who take the best from all of human history while leaving behind the bad is not a terrible way for our species to progress.

[Fonz]

 

@Alien, I can understand that, but older thinkers had good ideas about empathy and love long before the New Testament. Confucius, for example, expressed the Golden Rule of reciprocity. Christianity just pretty much appropriated those teachings (and added a whole lot of nasty behaviour in between)

Oh, totally, I agree. Buddhism also has great teachings regarding love and peace. I was only using that as an example on how differently a single religion can be both interpreted and taught.

 

I think it's weak of people to only believe parts of the bible; then, who is the arbiter of what is real and what is not? That takes apart the entire point of a dogmatic book. If it is the absolute and only truth, then why can we pick and choose?

 

 

Christianity is not a peaceful religion. The inquisition was rooted in the teachings of the bible.

 

 

Eris: You're a self-gratifying asshole for perpetuating the stereotype in the picture. Don't try to derail the thread.

 

I don't know, Marwin, I don't agree that it is weak to pick and choose a set of values from any source. Reading about the Buddhist respect for all life, the cycles of birth and re-birth and wanting to hold on to simply the 4 Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path while discounting the reincarnation concepts as well as the concept of samsara or nirvana doesn't strike me as weak. It strikes me as intelligent and questioning, life isn't a zero-sum game, you don't have to believe in A to believe in B, you can love the concept of forgiveness and compassion while decrying the hate and bigotry present as the other-side of that coin.

 

Yes, the Inquisition was rooted in the bible, so were the crusades, the enslavement and destruction of the native populations met by Cortez, Pizarro and Columbus and even the bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building. But so was the formation of the Bonfils blood center, the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights, the Red Cross and even Isaac Newton (who did things to prove the beatuy of God's creation). Religion can be used for both good and ill, just because ill is the more common result doesn't mean that good doesn't exist.

 

Yeah, I think that's a balanced point of view, but my take on it is that once a doctrine expresses or encourages such violent tendencies, we should no longer consider it a good path to follow.

 

Of course we should retain the good lessons from any text, ones that can be extracted and applied to a societal context, but we should discard the organised cult and compile those lessons from various sources in our everyday moral compass, hopefully complimenting it with peace, empiricism and rationality.

 

edit: looks like you guys agreed on this while I wrote. High ten!

Edited February 20, 2015 by Black_MiD

[mr quick]

 

 

You make a good point, Alien. My point remains, though, that if one gets to pick and choose arbitrarily from a doctrine, it completely loses its value.

 

As doctrine, yes. But... didn't we all play Mass Effect to stop indoctrinations? I joke, but seriously, maybe a bunch of independently minded people who take the best from all of human history while leaving behind the bad is not a terrible way for our species to progress.

 

Absolutely, but humanity won't progress further until religion has literally no impact on society.

[wiizardii]

I am muslim, though I don't pray 5 times a day, my family has a history of muslims. I do follow alot of rules in islam such as not eating pork and such.

[Fonz]

 

 

 

You make a good point, Alien. My point remains, though, that if one gets to pick and choose arbitrarily from a doctrine, it completely loses its value.

 

As doctrine, yes. But... didn't we all play Mass Effect to stop indoctrinations? I joke, but seriously, maybe a bunch of independently minded people who take the best from all of human history while leaving behind the bad is not a terrible way for our species to progress.

 

Absolutely, but humanity won't progress further until religion has literally no impact on society.

 

Brace yourself, dude, apologists will soon be here with their fictional highly inflated claims of killings under predominantly atheistic nations. A dude on Youtube kept bringing up the USSR (to a discussion about the current state of the world) as an example of how "all atheists are evil", but didn't bother to provide a link of causation between Stalin's atheism and his obvious mental disability.

[AlienTwo]

Oh man... and besides the USSR and Communist China, what atheist nations actually exist?

[Fonz]

Oh man... and besides the USSR and Communist China, what atheist nations actually exist?

Funny you should say that, as I actually asked him that! I believe he meant those nations with a significant atheist demographic, like Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Canada... you know, the happiest, most prosperous countries in the world

[I cucked Alex Jones]

[sivispacem]

It's basically a myth that Stalinist Russia was Atheist anyway. After the Purges Stalin practically encouraged the effective reestablishment as the Russian orthodox church as a mouthpiece of the state. He basically used the Orthodox church as a tool to arose nationalism and patriotism; reestablished the official status of Russian Orthodoxy and hugely increased the number of churches in operation.

 

There are numerous technically secular nations. These are closer to actual atheism than the antitheist and antireligious Soviet bloc and other Marxist-Leninist states.