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American Viking

Do you consider the Confederate Flag racist?

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Clem Fandango

What I meant was one side doesn't get to define what it means for everyone else.

Symbols only have meaning insofar as meaning is interpreted. If a large amount of people interpret an image to be racist, then it's racist. You might not intend for it to be racist, but why does that even matter?

 

 

 

Lol, what.

You give absolutely no credence to the idea that we should work towards racial equality, so I have to assume you're either a huge racist or you simply think we've transcended race and racism. Is it the former? Was I giving you too much credit?

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GTA_stu

 

What I meant was one side doesn't get to define what it means for everyone else.

Symbols only have meaning insofar as meaning is interpreted. If a large amount of people interpret an image to be racist, then it's racist.

 

To them. It's not a fact or anything. There are some things which are almost universally considered to be racist, but the confederate flag is not one of them no matter how much some people attempt to portray it as such. There are plenty of black people that fly the confederate flag or wear it on articles of clothing and are perfectly fine with it. If someone finds it offensive and they think it represents only negative things, then that's perfectly fine they don't have to like it. But if someone else thinks it is representative of their heritage and of Southern pride, then that's fine too I don't see the problem.

 

Some people try and equate it with things like the Nazi flag or a racial slur, but it is nowhere near those things. I think some people are trying to artificially create more offence than there actually is, and exaggerate what it represents. There's almost a campaign really, to try and ban it or attach a larger stigma to it than it actually deserves.

 

 

 

You might not intend for it to be racist, but why does that even matter?

 

Why does it matter that you interpret it to be racist?

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Clem Fandango

Eh, you're kind of right I guess, though I'm really not sure why you felt the need to go out of your way to defend people flying the Confederate flag.

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Dingdongs

Eh, you're kind of right I guess, though I'm really not sure why you felt the need to go out of your way to defend people flying the Confederate flag.

Because many people who fly it are really not racists. Like the black guy on the last page who wrote an article about it, people believe it's a southern heritage issue. That said, I really don't believe that it's the right thing to do. The flag does represent a country that was inherently designed around racism and around the idea that expanding slavery is the right thing to do. And today, such a flag shouldn't be flown. f*ck the southern pride bullsh*t. Those are the same people saying we shouldn't have hyphenated Americans or whatever but they fly a flag of another country. Makes a lot of sense.

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GTA_stu

They're not flying the flag of another country though, they're flying the flag of a particular part of the USA. I guess it's like a proud Scott who flies the Scottish flag but is also proud to be British and a part of the UK. You even said it's a Southern heritage/pride issue yourself. They're proud Southerners is all, they're not proud Confederates advocating for slavery. If they want to fly a flag or have something to represent their "Southerness" or whatever, then what flag do you propose they fly?

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Dingdongs

They're not flying the flag of another country though, they're flying the flag of a particular part of the USA. I guess it's like a proud Scott who flies the Scottish flag but is also proud to be British and a part of the UK. You even said it's a Southern heritage/pride issue yourself. They're proud Southerners is all, they're not proud Confederates advocating for slavery. If they want to fly a flag or have something to represent their "Southerness" or whatever, then what flag do you propose they fly?

There's a marked difference though. A proud Scot flying the Scottish flag is flying a legally recognized and correct flag. It's actually the flag of the Scottish country. And it doesn't have any particular highly negative connotations to it.

The stars and bars are the total opposite. They represent an illegally formed country that fought for slavery. There's no getting around it. It isn't the flag of their part of the country, it's a flag of a country that specifically left our country. I guess my problem is nobody in the North or West flies stupid ass flags that are unpatriotic and advocate for a country that stands for everything against modern American values. It's just the Deep South that does that and it's ridiculous. It's no more of a personal opinion of mine really. As I said earlier they tend to be some of the most conservative and the first to attack people for not showing American pride. Well, where is their American oride when they fly a flag that isn't even f*cking American.

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confederatestatesgta

ok well my question is why do you guys care anyway? its a free country right? freedom of speech and flags should count. as long as we are not out hurting people or telling them mean things then i dont see why you care. there are no laws that i know of that you break by flying the flag. plus you guys won anyway so let us have our last bit of pride.

 

 

f*ck the southern pride bullsh*t.

 

wow really? thats pretty immature. im not coming on here and saying f*ck northern pride. im just trying to defend the flag. you guys still have your country so i dont see why you care if we fly a flag or give a rebel yell.

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AlienTwo

Why do we care? Because we were asked our opinion. And it's quite hypocritical coming from the "Love or leave it" portion of the country.

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Dingdongs

ok well my question is why do you guys care anyway? its a free country right? freedom of speech and flags should count. as long as we are not out hurting people or telling them mean things then i dont see why you care. there are no laws that i know of that you break by flying the flag. plus you guys won anyway so let us have our last bit of pride.

 

 

f*ck the southern pride bullsh*t.

 

wow really? thats pretty immature. im not coming on here and saying f*ck northern pride. im just trying to defend the flag. you guys still have your country so i dont see why you care if we fly a flag or give a rebel yell.

That's the point. We don't have a f*cking northern pride. No one in the north (or Virginia as far as I've seen) gives a sh*t about taking pride in a particular region. Do we have pride in our city/town? Sure. This regional BS? Come on.

 

You're not f*cking getting it. IT IS NOT YOUR COUNTRY. THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is your country. The CSA does not exist, has not existed for 150+ years, and will never again. For f*cks sake...

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universetwisters

wow really? thats pretty immature. im not coming on here and saying f*ck northern pride. im just trying to defend the flag. you guys still have your country so i dont see why you care if we fly a flag or give a rebel yell.

I don't think you have any room calling others immature when you tried to defend your racism in your "CSA v. Nazi" thread and then went off topic to talk about Call of Duty.

 

Now, out of wondering, why do you keep trying to defend yourself flying a flag for a country that doesn't even exist? Do people still fly the Yugoslavian flag?

Edited by universetwisters

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confederatestatesgta

no im not yugoslavian. you guys sure are mad. and its like i said why do you care? is it hurting you? even if the csa is not a country we stlll like flying it. and i dont even have my flag outside its in my room. the funny thing is since i live in michigan now whenever i draw confederate flags or people see my flag they act like you. but it aint hurting anybody it dosent have a gun its just my way of pride for the south. infact i might be getting into reenacting. i have a uniform. but whatever yall dont care. you just care about making me look like a stereotypical southern redneck. i showed my friends this debate the other day. they just laughed but not at me.

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universetwisters

no im not yugoslavian.

Can you not read? I asked if people still fly the flag of Yugoslavia, a country that hasn't existed for twenty something years, because folks like you still fly the flag of a nation that ceased to exist about 150 years ago.

 

Now I'm gonna ask this again, exactly how is flying the flag of a country that doesn't even exist that held plenty of awful principles such as slavery a way of pride?

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confederatestatesgta

well pride for my ancestors. pride because thats were im from and everytime i visit i feel a sense of joy. and also pride because the south did what new england did not. yes during the war of 1812 new england was tired of the war and they held meetings to decide if they should succeede. of course they never did but the south did and that took guts. even though we lost i still feel pride hanging it up. and also they still sell confederate flags even up here i saw them being sold. plus on my birthday i get a cake with a cs flag on it. we lost i still dont see why anybody cares if we hang a flag.

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AlienTwo

If you still don't see why people "care" I would reference you to this thread. Lots of good info there, you just need to read it.

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universetwisters

 

well pride for my ancestors

Proud of your ancestors fighting over the fact that they were being told they couldn't own people?

 

 

pride because thats were im from and everytime i visit i feel a sense of joy

Are you from the Confederate States or are you from the southern part of the United States? Think logically about that one.

 

 

and also pride because the south did what new england did not.

Did New England try to secede over the fact they couldn't own people?

 

 

. we lost i still dont see why anybody cares if we hang a flag.

 

The nazis lost WW2, but people still get mad whenever a nazi flag is hung up.

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confederatestatesgta

you know i came back to this forum the other night to kind of apologise. to admit the south was not perfect and that they were wrong on some things. but all i get is just bashing. i still side with the south especially because if i were to side with the north then that would mean that i would agree that the march to georgia was ok. that was full of cowardice. burning atlanta, stealing, destroying, and raping. and the seige of vicksburg. i cant imagine how many civilians died because of that one. oh and of course the idiotic generals who did not know crap about fighting. they had to keep getting replaced. that just shows how dumb they were. the only good general they had was grant. were as the south was small in numbers but big on brains. just look at bull run. the south knew how to fight they were smart and good fighters. the north they all ran home to washington. and to make things even more laughable was that northern politicians and civilians thought it was smart to watch the battle. they thought it would be an easy fight. they were sure proved wrong. the only reason the south lost was because they were short on men, picketts charge, and the loss of stonewall jackson.

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universetwisters

Thank you for addressing the points I presented above. :sui:

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AlienTwo

you know i came back to this forum the other night to kind of apologise. to admit the south was not perfect and that they were wrong on some things. but all i get is just bashing. i still side with the south especially because if i were to side with the north then that would mean that i would agree that the march to georgia was ok. that was full of cowardice. burning atlanta, stealing, destroying, and raping. and the seige of vicksburg. i cant imagine how many civilians died because of that one. oh and of course the idiotic generals who did not know crap about fighting. they had to keep getting replaced. that just shows how dumb they were. the only good general they had was grant. were as the south was small in numbers but big on brains. just look at bull run. the south knew how to fight they were smart and good fighters. the north they all ran home to washington. and to make things even more laughable was that northern politicians and civilians thought it was smart to watch the battle. they thought it would be an easy fight. they were sure proved wrong. the only reason the south lost was because they were short on men, picketts charge, and the loss of stonewall jackson.

Do you not see the conflict in what you are saying?? You have stated over and over that you don't support slavery or any of the atrocities that the CSA committed, but you still support your ancestors and their fighting for what they believed in, yet say that any of us who supported, I dunno, America, are complicit in and condone rape, murder, burning of cities and all manner of atrocities. You decry the north because they didn't have the "star power" of the south and call them fools for watching a battle (something people just did back then, all over the world) and yet speak of your desire to take part in re-enacting those very battles?

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Even if it's pie...

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Share Sharqi

I guess they made a pact with the devil for the wit to fight the war at the cost of all their future generations being born ignorant as sh*t

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confederatestatesgta

you guys are just plain assholes. thats all there is to it. im done with you pricks. and i take back my apology you dont deserve it. have fun being bored having nobody to bully or team up against.

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universetwisters

you guys are just plain assholes. thats all there is to it. im done with you pricks. and i take back my apology you dont deserve it. have fun being bored having nobody to bully or team up against.

 

You're admitting defeat because your arguments lack substance & you can't back them up, and leaving to prevent further embarrassment?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by universetwisters

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sivispacem

you guys are just plain assholes. thats all there is to it. im done with you pricks. and i take back my apology you dont deserve it. have fun being bored having nobody to bully or team up against.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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