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American Viking

Do you consider the Confederate Flag racist?

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Piggsy pls

I've always found it kind of weird that people who often claim to be American patriots, would fly the flag of a secessionist movement against the nation.

And yeah, IMO there is simply no way to justify what this flag represents. To trivialize it down to "southern pride" is just wrong to me. Even if the people who fly it aren't all racist, it shouldn't come as a surprise that one would get that impression.

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AlienTwo

In the words of John Oliver "How is this discussion still a thing??"

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universetwisters

In the words of John Oliver "How is this discussion still a thing??"

If anything, the CSA guy keeps this going because either he's a troll or too stupid for anyone's good, especially as evidenced here from the other thread he made:

 

"im a christian so we cant be racist."

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Share Sharqi

*lose

Pretty sure it isn't any sort of fallacy, although there is similarity to confirmation/verification bias.

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confederatestatesgta

ok guys i have been watching encore westerns civil war marathon and will admit the south was not perfect. im watching andersonville and its pretty good but sadning aswell. but then again im sure you will just say that i shouldent believe these movies and crap. i know there not real but some of them have accurate depictions right?

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Clem Fandango

the south was not perfect.

f*ck it, good enough.

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Dingdongs

will admit the south was not perfect.

gone with the wind would like to have some words with you

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universetwisters

ok guys i have been watching encore westerns civil war marathon and will admit the south was not perfect. im watching andersonville and its pretty good but sadning aswell. but then again im sure you will just say that i shouldent believe these movies and crap. i know there not real but some of them have accurate depictions right?

 

To the first point I bolded - You really shouldn't look at movies for accurate depictions of history. But then again, considering that your "CSA v. Nazi" thread, you said "i hate how in cod waw they make you feel bad for the russians when they were massacered in stalingrad.". Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if you thought Borat was a real journalist from Kazakhstan and The Onion is a real news source.

 

To the second point, are you really looking to watch movies to get an accurate depiction of history? I'm not sure if you know this or not, but guess what? Movies are made to entertain! Silly, isn't it? That's why we all watch either documentaries or actual historical articles on it rather than simply getting a movie on it. Speaking of movies, give CSA a watching. It's not accurate at all given how the South takes over the entire USA, but it's accurate on the emphasis of slavery and just how awful the confederates are.

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confederatestatesgta

 

 

 

To the first point I bolded - You really shouldn't look at movies for accurate depictions of history. But then again, considering that your "CSA v. Nazi" thread, you said "i hate how in cod waw they make you feel bad for the russians when they were massacered in stalingrad.". Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if you thought Borat was a real journalist from Kazakhstan and The Onion is a real news source.

 

To the second point, are you really looking to watch movies to get an accurate depiction of history? I'm not sure if you know this or not, but guess what? Movies are made to entertain! Silly, isn't it? That's why we all watch either documentaries or actual historical articles on it rather than simply getting a movie on it. Speaking of movies, give CSA a watching. It's not accurate at all given how the South takes over the entire USA, but it's accurate on the emphasis of slavery and just how awful the confederates are.

no i watch movies for fun. i do watch documentarys ive seen the ken burns civil war stuff and plenty of other civil war stuff. and i have also been to plenty civil war battlefields like gettysburg, fredricksburg and i lived in franklin. i have had alot of real experience with the civil war not to mention owning a few items aswell. and if your talking about the mockumentary of csa if the south had won? yea i saw it a few times.

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S0lo

 

 

 

 

To the first point I bolded - You really shouldn't look at movies for accurate depictions of history. But then again, considering that your "CSA v. Nazi" thread, you said "i hate how in cod waw they make you feel bad for the russians when they were massacered in stalingrad.". Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if you thought Borat was a real journalist from Kazakhstan and The Onion is a real news source.

 

To the second point, are you really looking to watch movies to get an accurate depiction of history? I'm not sure if you know this or not, but guess what? Movies are made to entertain! Silly, isn't it? That's why we all watch either documentaries or actual historical articles on it rather than simply getting a movie on it. Speaking of movies, give CSA a watching. It's not accurate at all given how the South takes over the entire USA, but it's accurate on the emphasis of slavery and just how awful the confederates are.

no i watch movies for fun. i do watch documentarys ive seen the ken burns civil war stuff and plenty of other civil war stuff. and i have also been to plenty civil war battlefields like gettysburg, fredricksburg and i lived in franklin. i have had alot of real experience with the civil war not to mention owning a few items aswell. and if your talking about the mockumentary of csa if the south had won? yea i saw it a few times.

 

 

well, since apparently one argument that can't be made against you is that you had a lack in interest in the matter, why not take that passion you have for this issue and satisfy it by reading some books and texts about this part of american history? And by texts and books i mean historically accurate material that has been produced through scientific research, vetted by acclaimed historians and published with the intent to depict history as accurately as possible.

 

Cause that is how sane people with no personal agenda or vested interest in a specific outcome of their studies conduct their research in to a subject matter, by seeking out the most credible sources whom they can believe because they did not become historians (or any other kind of research oriented scientist) to prove one side of a conflict right and the other side wrong, but who ventured in to their profession out of genuine curiosity for the objective depiction of the occurrences of our past that lead to the events and conditions of today.

 

Now, i see some bigotry within you and do not believe you aren't to some degree racist (that absolutely uncalled for comment regarding a "raggedy slave" that in no context was of any rhetorical value or probative force to YOU; to me it was a slip-up on your part that showed a lot about how you view black people). But you know what i also see? AN inquisitive man who got his head f*cked before he was old enough to protect himself from it and who maybe even believes it when he claims not to be a racist. And should that be the case-then you'd be just another victim of some shameless manipulators.

 

I keep on nodding off as my Insomnia has me pushing 50 hours of no sleep now, so i'll just post now before i drop my head on the keyboard and accidentally delete all of it.

Edited by King S0lo

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universetwisters

"i have had alot of real experience with the civil war"

 

Bullsh*t. Nobody who lived through that is still alive.

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confederatestatesgta

"i have had alot of real experience with the civil war"

 

Bullsh*t. Nobody who lived through that is still alive.

no dummy i meant experience as in i have been to real life battlesites, museums, and antique collecting. you were asking were i learned from the civil war. plus i had a civil war class in school. and you know what maybe i am racist. im racist against african american criminals that murder and do drugs and crap im also racist agianst white criminals who murder/bad stuff. im also racist to the people who cuss me out online be it black or white. and you guys can put all the blame on me but im sure you guys are not perfect either. none of us are. im admitting it im not perfect but neither are you guys. so stop acting like im the only bad guy in the world. and even if i am a racist so what? i have never hurt anyone and am very friendly religous person. yet there are murdering evil scumbags out there. so next time you call me an evil racist just remember you are not either. now im not gonna pretend i know you and you dont know me but we are human and no human is perfect.

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AlienTwo

 

"i have had alot of real experience with the civil war"

 

Bullsh*t. Nobody who lived through that is still alive.

no dummy i meant experience as in i have been to real life battlesites, museums, and antique collecting. you were asking were i learned from the civil war. plus i had a civil war class in school. and you know what maybe i am racist. im racist against african american criminals that murder and do drugs and crap im also racist agianst white criminals who murder/bad stuff. im also racist to the people who cuss me out online be it black or white. and you guys can put all the blame on me but im sure you guys are not perfect either. none of us are. im admitting it im not perfect but neither are you guys. so stop acting like im the only bad guy in the world. and even if i am a racist so what? i have never hurt anyone and am very friendly religous person. yet there are murdering evil scumbags out there. so next time you call me an evil racist just remember you are not either. now im not gonna pretend i know you and you dont know me but we are human and no human is perfect.

 

How is that a good character trait?

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universetwisters

and even if i am a racist so what? i have never hurt anyone and am very friendly religous person.

 

 

 

I'm going to assume you're Christian just because you're from the south. Alright, so you know how in Mark 12, they say "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these"? You saying you're a racist and then saying you're religious totally contradicts the two of them. And even then, you say you're racist to bad people? It's normal not to be fond of bad people, but are you going to sit there and think your racism is justified by that?

 

"That's one stupid ni**er but it's okay for me to say that because he beat me up after I called him a ni**er".

 

Good lord, you're thick.

Edited by universetwisters

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confederatestatesgta

wait what im confused. you said the n word and i never said it maybe you are the racist. and im sure you wont believe me but i have african american friends and they are very nice. infact one time when we were playing cod we were talking and then some idiot comes on and said shut the f*ck up n word. im not gonna say it. and we got in a argument with him. so we fought for about 5 minutes then he started claiming he was from kkk we did not care. and eventually it got boring and we left. now im sure you wont believe it because you seem to have it all worked out that im a racist but its true. and even ive been called a n word before and a cracker by some of these idiots. take it however you want aleast i know the truth.

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AlienTwo

You are certainly racist against capital letters...

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universetwisters

wait what im confused. you said the n word and i never said it maybe you are the racist.

 

Do you not know what an example is?

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Dingdongs

Thanks Obama, for your educational policies creating confederatestatesgta.

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AlienTwo

Ijustcamebytosee_zpsf93a8ea1.jpg

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S0lo

So yeah, what i was trying to say earlier just about sums up to; I can't help but feeling sorry for you. Maybe if you hadn't been raised on bigotry, revisionist drivel and racist nostalgia you wouldn't have turned out to be as crazy as a bag of incoherent, contradictory and just flat out moronic cats.

 

Now go and find whoever is responsible for this train wreck and slap them silly. They damn sure deserve it, and then some.

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Share Sharqi

and im sure you wont believe me but i have african american friends and they are very nice

Whoa guys. Stop going on at Mr.Multicultural here - he has black friends so it's all cool...

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El Dildo

yeah.... this guy's username is "Confederate States."

 

I'm starting to feel like we may not be able to change his opinion on the matter :dozing:

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GTA_stu

Alrighty, just to steer away from the circle jerk, I wouldn't categorise the flag as being inherently racist. It's more just inherently controversial. That doesn't mean one side gets to define what it stands for though. For some it's representative of slavery and always will be, but for others it's representative of Southern culture and history, or rebellion. You can't say it's solely this or that or that it is somehow inherently unacceptable, because it really does depend on personal subjective opinion.

 

Also this was the official flag of the confederacy:

 

JSIzDiwm.png

 

This is merely the the battle flag.

 

TEi8hxfm.png

 

The white part of the first one, was to signify white supremacy, while the other part is representative of the actual states hence the 13 stars representing the 13 states. So you can make the argument that flying the flag is not about slavery, it's merely about the states themselves, since if it was truly about representing slavery or racism then they'd fly the actual flag of the Confederacy which had racist symbolism built into it's design. The battle flag is much more benign, and if people want to find offence with it they will, but people will find offence with pretty much anything these days. There's nothing inherently bad about it. I think it's very much about pride and heritage, and it's meaning has certainly changed in 150+ years.

Edited by stu

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universetwisters

yeah.... this guy's username is "Confederate States."

 

I'm starting to feel like we may not be able to change his opinion on the matter :dozing:

I'd like to pretend that one day he comes down from the mountain and identify as a Quebec Separatist.

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El Dildo

So you can make the argument that flying the flag is not about slavery, it's merely about the states themselves, since if it was truly about representing slavery or racism then they'd fly the actual flag of the Confederacy which had racist symbolism built into it's design. The battle flag is much more benign, and if people want to find offence with it they will, but people will find offence with pretty much anything these days. There's nothing inherently bad about it. I think it's very much about pride and heritage, and it's meaning has certainly changed in 150+ years.

this is all very colorful.

in sort of a rose-tinted way.

 

unfortunately, context is everything in this world.

the Stars and Bars are rarely flown without the explicit intent to offend and provoke race relations.

 

you can get as fancy and technical as you'd like in describing the nuances of the Confederate flag variants and symbolism.

but we all understand what it means when a pasty white dude decides to string it up to his pickup.

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confederatestatesgta

Whoa guys. Stop going on at Mr.Multicultural here - he has black friends so it's all cool...

 

yea id like to say i am multicultural. i have friends all over america, europe, asia, middle east, africa, and south america. playing online in different country servers is very fun. especially when some of them speak english then its really good. and i agree with stu. he understands the real meaning of the flag. although the original confederate flag looked just like the original american flag with the stars in a circle. and about changing my name is it possible? if so i have better names than this one.

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Clem Fandango

That doesn't mean one side gets to define what it stands for though.

Well, yes it does? If evey time I see x I think of y, then x stands for y, unequivocally. It doesn't matter what someone's intentions are. If I had a Hindu room mate I wouldn't let him put up a Swastika.

 

Anyway, you think we already live in a raceless, gender-equal utopia so I'm not sure how seriously you should be taken on this.

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GTA_stu

 

That doesn't mean one side gets to define what it stands for though.

Well, yes it does? If evey time I see x I think of y, then x stands for y, unequivocally. It doesn't matter what someone's intentions are. If I had a Hindu room mate I wouldn't let him put up a Swastika.

 

What I meant was one side doesn't get to define what it means for everyone else. With the swastika though there's universal agreement, at least in the West that it's wrong in virtually every circumstance. Although having said that if some Hindu wanted to use it privately I wouldn't begrudge him because to him it's just a religious or sacred symbol. This:

 

5x9K4bYt.png

 

Is not the same as a Nazi swastika.

 

 

 

Anyway, you think we already live in a raceless, gender-equal utopia so I'm not sure how seriously you should be taken on this.

 

Lol, what.

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Dingdongs

I wouldn't say that the flag is just an overtly racist symbol but obviously it does have offensive connotations to many people. My problem with it by and large is that I see it as anti-American and pro-slavery. Giuliani says Obama doesn't love America, but you know what really isn't loving America? Flying a f*cking confederate flag over the American flag in the state house of all these southern states. I mean for f*ck's sake get over it, the confederacy isn't a thing anymore. That flag is just stupid.

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universetwisters

I mean for f*ck's sake get over it, the confederacy isn't a thing anymore.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it, come think of it. I'm not flying a Norman flag in front of my house, so why do white trash still fly the flag of a nation that doesn't even exist anymore?

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