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Vangelo

U.S. Police militarized

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don ovdi' island

Let me start by saying this is a LONG post, that took me a while to write. Read the articles therein before making your snarky remarks. I understand that we need police, this is not a police-bashing post. READ what's here or you will be IGNORED!

 

 

I wouldn't have such a problem with it if the police could oh, i dont know, actually cut down on the violent crime. Its worse than ever out here

Is it? I was of the belief that violent crime was falling fairly substantially in the US. I mean of course, there's debate to be had on the accuracy of the statistics and all that jazz but, based on the available evidence, violent crime is decreasing, even though strangely people's perceptions of it might be increasing. That's an issue of people being poor at differentiating between anecdote and evidence.

 

 

Evidence? Yeah, OK. lets take a second to look at things objectively:

 

-4f795a5b0e17f15f.JPG

 

While the murders in my area have decreased this year, although still shockingly high statistics show that:

 

Forcible rape: Up 39%

Armed Robbery: Up 37%

Burglary: Up 8%

Other: Up 12%

 

http://www.kplctv.com/story/28055822/new-orleans-fewest-killings-in-44-years-other-crimes-up

 

Not to mention that my city is among the top 3 murder rates per capita in the last 20 years, despite dropping for the last few, it's still amongst the highest in the nation.

 

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/01/new_orleans_murders_down_in_20.html

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-New-Orleans-Louisiana.html

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state<-- compared with the other 50 states

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/lacrime.htm

 

Murders per Capita: (Louisiana)

 

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

1996

10.8

10.6

11.1

11.0

11.8

11.9

14.2

12.4

9.9

12.7

13

13.2

11.2

12.5

10.7

12.8

15.7

17.5

 

while i admit this story is a bit old, lets not forget that those same police officers are some of the ones having innocent people gunned down...

len-davisjpg-d5a2b71219f69747_small.jpg

 

 

"A New Orleans police officer who ordered a hit on a woman who filed a brutality complaint should be spared the death penalty because of prosecutor errors and misconduct, his attorneys argued Wednesday at the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals."

 

"A 32-year-old New Orleans woman was fatally shot Thursday night in the 1300 block of Alabo Street, police said.

Kim Groves, whose address was unavailable, was shot once in the head shortly before 11 p.m. Police said they responded to a citizen's report of gunfire and found Groves in the street with a bullet wound to the left side of her head."

FBI wiretaps recorded Davis say 'Nighty-Night' as a dispatcher announced a murder in the Desire housing development.

 

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2009/12/len_davis_arrest_and_convictio.html

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/1997/03/richard_pennington_says_he_was.html

 

Have the police at least straightened out since then? Of course !

http://videos.nola.com/times-picayune/2015/02/phone_scam_involving_law_enfor.html

 

perhaps you'll be safe at home. Probably not.

-bebccf72919ed452.JPG

 

Speak out about the crime? or, cooperate with police? Die.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhLFLC3Nc8A

 

hmmm… at least we're safer than a whole 9% of other U.S. cities.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/la/new-orleans/crime/

 

Special events can't even be had with a good time. As seen in the 2013 Mothers Day second line shooting:

 

new-orleans-crime.jpg

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/12/mothers-day-parade-shooting-new-orleans_n_3263539.html

 

or just days ago, during the Mardi gras parades...

 

-ba55c3c1e546218c.JPG

 

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/02/muses_parade_shooter_arrested.html#incart_most-read_crime_article

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/02/20-year-old_man_shot_in_uptown.html#incart_story_package

-6a3a8ee3d44ef18c.JPG

 

 

perhaps it could do with our shrinking police force..

http://www.wdsu.com/news/local-news/new-orleans/some-residents-worried-about-violent-crime-as-mardi-gras-nears-in-new-orleans/30912632

 

 

I understand solving a murder isn't the easiest thing to do but, better police - community relationships could possibly help.

 

-72a76b702e7c090e.jpg

 

I'm not here to argue about police. I dont hate police, but i hate the chitty job they're "doing" out here. As said, I wouldn't have a problem if the police could actually make the place safe. the ONLY reason the murder rate has been down in the last two years is because finally now all the real killers are getting killed or going into hiding. This whole post took a bit of effort to convey, so bullchit replies i won't even blink my eyes too. The only argument is could see would be "well, they're trying" or, "at least the murder rate has decreased".. This may be true, (despite violent crime shooting up as covered in detail before) but it is STILL NOT SAFE. What am I to do? Move? No. I was born and raised here. I refuse to run away. I want it to be safe here.. I'm nervous just letting my mother, sister or niece leave the house. There's got to be a better way. How about better training for better officers or at least more of them.. instead of giving them military equipment, weapons, and brand new cars every other year because it isn't helping a god damn thing ! The only thing i ever see the police actually doing here… is showing up at the crime scene. It's a miracle they even do that.

 

 

So, before YOU, or ANYONE else tries to tell me the police are doing the best job you can do, come take a step in my city. There's a one 1:124 chance that you won't make it home to tell about it, and a 1:25 chance that your car gets stolen or broken into while you're down here.

 

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/la/new-orleans/crime/

 

-73b2d4d669a7dff5.JPG

Edited by dreadluxx

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sivispacem

I didn't know where you were referring to with "out here". My comments were based on general trends and nothing more; I don't doubt there are places where the crime figures are bucking the overall trend.

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don ovdi' island

I understand. My post was just to clarify. I'll say again, i have nothing wrong with police having the proper equipment. But as a tax paying citizen it's extremely frustrating to literally be scared to let the family out the house without me being present. I wish there was more i could do to help but there isn't. I cannot count on the police to protect me or my family, i must protect them myself. This is a subject i'm passionate about because there is a fine line between overpowered police and underpowered police, and so many factors that control it. An overpowered police force that can't stop or barely even slow down crime is just as problematic as one that is underpowered - or even overpowered and abusive.

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PhillBellic

I think better relations with both the police, and community would help in reducing tensions.

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AlienTwo

Yes. If the police could stop killing the community and it's dogs, there might be room for some improving relations.

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Vangelo

So it's okay for people to kill cops and other people but it's not okay for cops to kill people? You know cops are people too and it's not like they like shooting people. Every cop wishes they didn't have to carry guns and that they could just be nice to everyone but it's their job to protect innocents and if that means shooting someone who they feel could cause great bodily harm or death to them or someone else then they will do it.

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AlienTwo

Hey hey, I NEVER said it was okay to kill cops. To be totaly clear, it is NOT ok, I do not condone murder by anyone, ever. But "better relations" makes it seem like it's both the civilians and cops fault equally, which I don't agree. People haven't been attacking cops for no reason(a few brutal recent incidents notwithstanding), which led to this current over reactive state that the police are in. The system has been stacked against minorities and in the favor of the police for so long, it's no surprise it's finally reaching a tipping point where the citizenry has just said "enough". There are obvious systemic problems in police training an culture which is evident by the way most incidents' investigations show the officer "acted as he was trained" and by the lack of outcry against bad officers from the rest of the law enforcement community.

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Dingdongs

But you've failed to detail any of these problems as being the cops' fault. Why is it bad that the system is stacked towards police? They are the ones that are protecting the community and enforcing the law.

 

I get it, the cops are the face of "the system" but it isn't Officer Jones and Alvarez walking a beat in the Bronx that put minority families into poverty. And it isn't them keeping them there either. It's the entrenched nature of poverty in these areas, the lack of real role models, lack of good education and values, that cause that.

 

We need to wake and smell the coffee. Police respond to crime and enforce the law when it is broken. The law is broken and violent crime is committed disproportionately in black neighborhoods. Like, really disproportionately. I'm talking 70% of shootings in NYC committed by African Americans. More than half of murder victims are black, when they comprise 13% of the population. And it ain't the cops making that statistic, it's black men by and large killing other black men. In 2013 we had nationwide 4,396 murders committed by white people and 5,375 by black people, wih populations of 64% and 13% respectively. That's not the cops' fault.

 

We can talk all day about how society has left them behind and has essentially forced the black community by and large to be relegated into housing projects which themselves propagate crime, and how we don't put enough money into these communities to force social mobility. How there are no good role models in these communities that young black men aspire to become. They look towards people who glorify the rap life, not towards President Obama/AG Holder/Secy Johnson/Colin Powell. Their schools are complete sh*tholes that serve as makeshift prisons. This is a big problem that society needs to work to fix. Part of that equation does not involve the police department, which does by and large one task, deal with crime. Which is in these communities disproportionafely.

Edited by Irviding

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AlienTwo

You are right, it itsn't the cops fault the system, the entire system is racist. You don't to have racists in a system for the system it'self to be racist. But you quote that black people kill black people more often than not, and that also is true, but it's also true that most white murders are committed by whites, same with asians and latinos. We humans tend to stick with our groups for good or bad, and that shows in whom we chose to kill. There has been an American system of putting down all non-white, non-male, non-christian and non-straight people at the expense of the other. It's the system and we need to acknowledge that in order to be able to attempt to fix it. You quote statistics, but those also come back to bite you as the conviction rate and incarceration times are as horrible stacked against black people, if not worse, as are the stats you provided.

 

More stats; In New York (since that's been a chosen test location) they looked at "resisting arrest" charges as those are often the only charges that cops are able to get to stick, and it was determined that 40% of the resisting charges are attributable to 5% of the police force. That shows plainly that yes, most cops are good but the one who are bad, are so bad, and so strongly protected by the "blue line" than they are able to operate with impunity, beating and abusing citizens whenever they have a itch to do so.

 

Why don't police decry these instances?? Why are they protected, non-indicted and often paid for vacation while their department spends money and resources dirting the name of whomever they just killed or injured? It is always demanded of every general Muslim citizen when an act of terror is committed, in order to prove their loyalty but we don't hold the police to this same "standard". The cops are above the law, as it stands today, and that really irks people when they often seem to be the ones who need policing the most.

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Dingdongs

You are right, it itsn't the cops fault the system, the entire system is racist. You don't to have racists in a system for the system it'self to be racist. But you quote that black people kill black people more often than not, and that also is true, but it's also true that most white murders are committed by whites, same with asians and latinos. We humans tend to stick with our groups for good or bad, and that shows in whom we chose to kill. There has been an American system of putting down all non-white, non-male, non-christian and non-straight people at the expense of the other. It's the system and we need to acknowledge that in order to be able to attempt to fix it. You quote statistics, but those also come back to bite you as the conviction rate and incarceration times are as horrible stacked against black people, if not worse, as are the stats you provided.

I'm with you on the top half of the post. The system as it is designed does prevent upward mobility not only by minorities but by anybody who is living in entrenched poverty. Unfortunately more often than not it is minorities in that situation.

 

As for the stuff about the Justice system, while there was a point in time where sentencing came down harder on black people specifically, I don't believe it's the case anymore. Unfortunately the reality is when you get a young black male who committed an assault processed in the system that black male likely has no family background to fall back on, no family community ties, and no money for an attorney that's half good. The white girl or guy probably has that structure in place. It's unfortunate but I refuse to believe that judges chronically sentence blacks higher just because they are black. There are just so many other factors at play. And with regard to them being overrepresented in prison, they are also over represented in crime statistics, though not at the same level albeit for the reasons I listed above.

 

More stats; In New York (since that's been a chosen test location) they looked at "resisting arrest" charges as those are often the only charges that cops are able to get to stick, and it was determined that 40% of the resisting charges are attributable to 5% of the police force. That shows plainly that yes, most cops are good but the one who are bad, are so bad, and so strongly protected by the "blue line" than they are able to operate with impunity, beating and abusing citizens whenever they have a itch to do so.

I would question that and would be interested in seeing a wider scale. Seems like a cherry picked statistic from whoever did that analysis. Cops who deal with people resisting arrest are not the entire NYPD. Warrants and narcotics squads and people working the projects would deal with a significantly higher amount of people resisting than somebody investigating burglary in Manhattan South. I would be curious to see the full methadology.

 

 

Why don't police decry these instances?? Why are they protected, non-indicted and often paid for vacation while their department spends money and resources dirting the name of whomever they just killed or injured? It is always demanded of every general Muslim citizen when an act of terror is committed, in order to prove their loyalty but we don't hold the police to this same "standard". The cops are above the law, as it stands today, and that really irks people when they often seem to be the ones who need policing the most.

That's just not the case. Is a cop going to let another cop off for a speeding ticket? f*ck yes. Maybe let a cop's kid go for a stupid misdemeanor? Yeah, probably. Is the same going to happen if a cop is embezzling money, groping rape victims, etc? No. Take a look at this. In reality nothing irks cops more than cops who abuse their authority and take advantage. The blue code of silence is highly misunderstood.

http://www.thebangswitch.com/that-blue-code-of-silence-thats-not/

Edited by Irviding

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