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What Do You Believe (and Why)?


Recommended Posts

Surprised this topic is active tbh. I'll update with something I've been considering since my original post.

 

There isn't much that can be done when all you are doing is speculating or arguing with others, be it online or in real life. The Internet allows for a very faced-paced, heated discussion on topics you are passionate about. It also allows you to feel gratified by any number of methods, be it likes, DMs of appreciation, online friends backing you up, etc. There is some opportunity for discussion that can be valuable--in this sense, I mean discussion that allows for either party to walk away with more knowledge, more perspective, or maybe more humility. However, nothing about the online landscape favors genuine discussion or learning. There is simply no comparison between arguing political points on Twitter or a forum, and discussing politics at a canvas or rally with actual people. Conversation is easier, people are generally more willing to hear you, and the chance of meeting an actual under-the-bridge troll who will just waste your time pissing you off is slim-to-none. Maybe the reason for that is because trolls are much less ardent when they are forced to look other humans in the eye. That's an aside. Either way, the main point I keep coming back to is this: if you want change, you won't get it here.

 

I can't tell you how much more positively I've been able to view politics since I've been a regular volunteer. Everything comes back to action. I find it fun to chat with folks on boards like these, but I find fulfillment in actually working toward an end. Last year, I spoke with dozens of teachers who realized that they could, by their own power, strike for better wages. The school board in our city crumbled under the might of those brave teachers. Just last month, I worked with a local group here to canvas for Bernie Sanders in Aurora. The discussions I had with people were genuine, and every house I walked away from, I felt I learned something new about how to reach out to people. On Sunday I'm volunteering at a rally where Sanders will be giving a speech, which is p chill. Beyond all this, I am still much further to the left than Sanders himself, and probably most of the people I work with. But reaching out to these people, organizing in local communities, and finding that there is still a chance for things to be more positive for others... Well, it feels a lot better than just knowing I've read enough Marxist literature to adequately critique the way things are. This post is a bit of a ramble, but hey I made this topic so go f*ck yourself if you don't like it. 

 

Anyway, how's it going folks

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ilovebender.com

Being a Tory to me means siding with freedom; the freedom to exploit tax code for tax avoidance; the equal nature in tax avoidance not being for an exclusive few, but instead open all who take the time, makes it fair imo too. @IGLOO WHITE

 

1 hour ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

I'm flattered you think it's me, but the only other account I have any access to is the Paleto Bay Mayor's Office official account.....

 

Good to know I'm in your thoughts though.

Whenever I see a demented Twat, you'd always be my first go to. :)

Edited by ilovebender.com
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IGLOO WHITE

being a tory means being exclusionary. it has nothing to do with freedom its all about stamping your economic social and genetic superiority on the lower classes. thats why we live in manor houses and they live in mouldy bedsits or spare rooms under our staircases.

 

if you want a party thats inclusive try labour they sound like theyd be much more up your alley boy

Edited by IGLOO WHITE
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ilovebender.com
2 minutes ago, IGLOO WHITE said:

being a tory means being exclusionary. it has nothing to do with freedom its all about stamping your economic social and genetic superiority on the lower classes. thats why we live in manor houses and they live in mouldy bedsits or spare rooms under our staircases.

 

if you want a party thats inclusive try labour they sound like theyd be much more up your alley boy

So you suffer from a form of psychosis, I just wonder if it's been diagnosed yet.

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IGLOO WHITE

I don't think youre medically qualified and besides youre a pauper your opinion is irrelevant you lack the breeding and culture to be a tory I bet you have tanned arms and all

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daisymollie
21 minutes ago, IGLOO WHITE said:

I don't think youre medically qualified and besides youre a pauper your opinion is irrelevant you lack the breeding and culture to be a tory I bet you have tanned arms and all

I rarely call people out but in the few posts you've made since recently joining, you've managed to come across as an uneducated forum troll without a shred of credibility. 

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11 minutes ago, daisymollie said:

I rarely call people out but in the few posts you've made since recently joining, you've managed to come across as an uneducated forum troll without a shred of credibility. 

I think you meant to quote @ilovebender.com

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daisymollie
1 hour ago, Raavi said:

I think you meant to quote @ilovebender.com

Nope. His very first post was to insult someone's father then he went downhill from there. I don't see anything good coming from his future posts. 

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IGLOO WHITE
17 minutes ago, daisymollie said:

Nope. His very first post was to insult someone's father then he went downhill from there. I don't see anything good coming from his future posts. 

does anyone really care what you think I certainly dont

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people there's another thread for Brexit 👍

 

2 hours ago, Tyler said:

Surprised this topic is active tbh. I'll update with something I've been considering since my original post.

 

There isn't much that can be done when all you are doing is speculating or arguing with others, be it online or in real life. The Internet allows for a very faced-paced, heated discussion on topics you are passionate about. It also allows you to feel gratified by any number of methods, be it likes, DMs of appreciation, online friends backing you up, etc. There is some opportunity for discussion that can be valuable--in this sense, I mean discussion that allows for either party to walk away with more knowledge, more perspective, or maybe more humility. However, nothing about the online landscape favors genuine discussion or learning. There is simply no comparison between arguing political points on Twitter or a forum, and discussing politics at a canvas or rally with actual people. Conversation is easier, people are generally more willing to hear you, and the chance of meeting an actual under-the-bridge troll who will just waste your time pissing you off is slim-to-none. Maybe the reason for that is because trolls are much less ardent when they are forced to look other humans in the eye. That's an aside. Either way, the main point I keep coming back to is this: if you want change, you won't get it here.

i totally second this. i mean i've been creating a space between me and internet recently. even though as you notice, internet can be rewarding. you also come across a bunch of competition c..ts. thus i'm trying not to expect as much with my internet discussions, than i used to do. i mean some people really look desesperate, and act in total gap with reality. you can get nothing from these people

Edited by jpm1
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Eutyphro

I'm gonna go ahead and give an actually on topic contribution.

What is known about me on this forum is that I was originally an unconventional leftist. I was an overly rationalistic leftist who inspired by Noam Chomsky deduced most of my politics from the harms done by the dominant powers in the international arena, specifically the United States of America. I adhered to the idea that international law should be strictly followed at all times. I adhered to the ideas that society should be egalitarian, rational, and direct democracy.

What made me stray from these ideas were the way I disagreed with mainstream feminism, and how I learned about political foundations theory. My disagreement with mainstream feminism was quite fundamental, as I don't consider modern Western white women an oppressed group, and it made me fall out with the respected leftists here, like Black_MiD. Ultimately they were right that I was fundamentally not on the left, and I ended up finding that out. I used to be very interested in feminism and anti feminism, but lately as a topic it has become pretty irrelevant to me. My real departure with leftism was when I discovered political foundations theory by Jonthan Haidt, and gained sympathy for the political foundations of conservatism.

In recent times I've become pretty apolitical. I went from an anti imperialist leftist to an apolitical centrist pragmatist and classical liberal who's most interested in spirituality. Recently I've become mainly interested in Eastern spirituality and topics like gnosticism. If I could summarize what I've come to believe it is that spiritual awakening of the individual in shallow nihilistic modern society is much more fundamental than any political solution.

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Clem Fandango

Moral foundations theory is a great way to understand Conservatism if you're completely historically illiterate and want to view modern political trends in a total vacuum. But I guess that's par the course for modern liberalism: vulgar idealism that pretends the world began in 1980.

 

It's also incredibly soft on Conservatives, seemingly purposefully avoiding the whole "torries are scared of germs and that's why they hate blacks" thing that almost every other model to explain political psychology seems to suggest. But again: such models are a waste of time and are ahistorical. 

 

EDIT: and why we're on the subject how can anyone these days keep claiming with a straight face that the animus of the Conservative movement is tradition or sanctity or order when it is obviously spite. The reason they've switched recently from a faux-stuffy support for the status quo into caring only about owning the libs. It's because supporting the war in Iraq and mass incarceration or whatever was a good outlet for their anti-social tendencies but now it's easier to watch a video of Milo getting an enema to own the libs.

 

You don't even have to leave this forum to see examples of this. Skeever and John Smith used to be the most prominent Conservative posters and they've been reduced to posting black peoples' corpses and spamming the NPC meme respectively. Literal degenerates who are obviously dealing with brain-rot brought on by social isolation. Oh and there's also Chiari, possibly the least popular poster on this whole website and who also has severe autism.

 

Now those aren't average Conservatives, but it makes you wonder, why a movement would be made of bothretarded freaks on the internet and angry suburban normies. It's because all they have in common is 1) unchannelled aggression 2) being too much of a pussy to actually do anything anti-social, like starting a fight or whatever. It's literally just an outlet for aggression and the idea that you'd pretend otherwise is ridiculous. 

 

Edited by Clem Fandango
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Eutyphro
7 hours ago, Clem Fandango said:

But I guess that's par the course for modern liberalism: vulgar idealism that pretends the world began in 1980.

1880?

 

Quote

It's also incredibly soft on Conservatives, seemingly purposefully avoiding the whole "torries are scared of germs and that's why they hate blacks"

It includes that. "Sanctity or purity: abhorrence for disgusting things, foods, actions; opposite of degradation" is a moral foundation.
 

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ilovebender.com
23 hours ago, Raavi said:

I think you meant to quote @ilovebender.com

The Intolerant Left ladies & gentlemen...

 

Just because someone doesn't respect the EU doesn't mean they're an idiot; It just means they don't respect the EU.

Edited by ilovebender.com
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IGLOO WHITE
2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

The Intolerant Left ladies & gentlemen...

your every bit as bad as the in tolerant left you false tory no respect for the upper classes probably some manual labourer or deluded benefits type who thinks were going to make him rich unlikely story

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sivispacem
14 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

Can we stop making this the EU topic?

We can, should and will.

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Ned Bingham
On 2/14/2020 at 7:46 PM, Tyler said:

There is simply no comparison between arguing political points on Twitter or a forum, and discussing politics at a canvas or rally with actual people. Conversation is easier, people are generally more willing to hear you, and the chance of meeting an actual under-the-bridge troll who will just waste your time pissing you off is slim-to-none. Maybe the reason for that is because trolls are much less ardent when they are forced to look other humans in the eye. 

That's the exact reason why all discourse should be shifted to online.  That way everyone can be a Troll and all human interaction can be reduced to spleen and vitriol.  Only then shall we see and enjoy Humanity's true nature.  Har, har har.

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  • 8 months later...

Returning to this topic to give a brief story.

 

I have wondered for a long time about how to best move forward in regards to the revitalization of culture and language that was systematically erased by tyranny. Particularly, any research on Native American history is bound to be tied up with feelings of remorse and confusion. How do we ever go about correcting a wrong that has started centuries ago and persists--though in a much more implicit capacity--to this day? The answer is neither simple nor easy, but I've had the pleasure of speaking with some linguists who are working on successfully revitalizing languages that died out as a result of imperial machinations.

 

To summarize this fantastic paper on the subject: it takes a lot of thinking. In the case of the Kansa/Kaw language, whose last native speaker died in the 1980s, a few things have to be accepted. First and foremost, you have to acknowledge the reality of the environment a language inhabits. For researchers in Kansas and Oklahoma, this meant emphasizing that contemporary Kaw, as a language, is going to be learned as a second language by Anglophones. In other words, of the remaining Kaw members, none of them are full-blooded, and none of them can claim a native tongue. However, this lack of tangible connection to the culture and history of the Kaw tribe before America's westward expansion means very little. Thanks to the tireless work of James Owen Dorsey in the 19th century, archives of about 25,000 words and the grammatical structure of spoken Kaw is preserved. Additionally, linguist Robert L. Rankin collected these records in the 1970s and sought out living Kaw with a plan to both create a Kaw writing system (the language had never been used in writing outside of Dorsey's journals) and figure out how to create a curriculum to create more Kaw speakers.

 

I will skip the technical aspects of orthographic development and contemporary teaching models to say that the results are quite interesting. The language is spoken by a few dozen people--mostly linguists and Kaw elders who are still developing a coherent methodology for teaching. While there are still no 'native' Kaw speakers, phrases and vocabulary are being brought back to life for Kaw--old and young alike. Younger members of the tribe are going to be the deciding factor, but the work thus far presents a unique chance at optimism in an otherwise grim history.

 

To bring this back to my original meandering, I believe this perspective and experience is something that should be celebrated and respected. Language is a fundamental aspect to human culture, and there is nothing quite as insidious as the idea of erasing that shared tradition. Despite that, we all know the history: America, like many other empires, left a trail of gutted communities and annihilated cultures. How do we acknowledge this reality while still keeping our humanity? Well, I have no clue. But I do know that the tangible work of linguists and anthropologists is, in this regard, one of the most important things being researched right now.

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