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Tyler

What Do You Believe (and Why)?

Recommended Posts

Tyler

In creating this thread I hope to foster conversations based more around the beliefs of the people who are going to post rather than a centralized theme or idea itself. I thought this would be the clearest way to allow people to present ideas they held with high regard, without taking a leap and creating a topic about those ideas on their own entirely. This topic will still abide by the rules of the section it is in: keep your posts on-topic (refer either to the post you're replying, or to the beliefs you wish to posit), avoid flaming anyone, and so on. However, I hope the more free-form nature will spring some things up that would otherwise never get a chance to come to fruition.

 

Be it large or small, present beliefs as you wish, and tell us why we should believe them (or not believe them). Anything from politics to religion to culture to really anything, as long as you articulate your point and allow for discussion. Don't worry about presenting an entire ethos in one post. You may stick to one topic on your mind, and come back and post something else later on.

 

 

With that said, I'll start: the landscape of contemporary society allows for a cannibalization of social movements into a sort of trinket-wearing faux-egalitarianism that was not possible before globalized communication and living standards reached the point they do now. I think the trend of impressing ourselves and peers with instant participation and the ever-steady acceleration of trends in popular culture allows for an inauthentic and harmful view of political and cultural action. At the same time, I don't know that this is changeable in many ways, and I don't know if it's truly worse than the alternatives. Do you guys know of a good response to this?

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Doc Rikowski

With that said, I'll start: the landscape of contemporary society allows for a cannibalization of social movements into a sort of trinket-wearing faux-egalitarianism that was not possible before globalized communication and living standards reached the point they do now. I think the trend of impressing ourselves and peers with instant participation and the ever-steady acceleration of trends in popular culture allows for an inauthentic and harmful view of political and cultural action. At the same time, I don't know that this is changeable in many ways, and I don't know if it's truly worse than the alternatives. Do you guys know of a good response to this?

 

I agree even though I see this more prevalent in Western society and in general in urban landscapes. Is it changeable on a large scale? I doubt it cause a big chunk of this behavior is pushed by consumerism via very effective marketing strategies (I work in advertising...) and for a lot of people is very hard to realize how much of their own lifestyle and mindset has been shaped by others through the art of persuasion that is used in all aspects of the human social and political structure. I believe there's always an alternative and it goes through the old but always valid philosophical lesson of "Know Thyself". Self-consciousness as a starting point to understand the current world combined with love and curiosity for culture in general. Cause a lot of the tools we need to understand ourselves and our world are out there available for anyone to learn. Problem is the "noise" is very loud and most people are "deaf". Unfortunately a lot depends on where you are born and from whom and how you have been raised. If you are lucky enough to have parents that love you and teach you a certain way to deal with life then you might be among the few ones that are "infected" with the bug of intellectual curiosity and independent thinking. Sometimes even the people you meet can "infect" you, being those a teacher, a friend, a lover. Current society in general is very bad at education. It functions very well when teaching conformism or banality. Not so much in forming solid individuals. Anyway, not sure if this is a valid response cause deep down I guess I believe in another sort of individualism, although less mass driven and less taught, it is still individualism. What we need is collectiveness but the risk is always to fall into standardization. Funnily enough in this hyper connected world I have the feeling we are steadily marching into the most fragmentized and compartmented society ever created by humanity.

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El Dildo

Do you guys know of a good response to this?

yeah.

just like, go with the flow, man.

 

I mean what do you want?

every generation thinks society is only getting more decadent. every prophet foresees the end of the world. yet the sh*t is still spinning. mo' money, mo' problems right? except now it's just amplified through globalization. people were always starving and being raped, politicians were always corrupt, and pop music always sucked wind even back when it was being played with woodwinds.

 

I'm not interested in how bored individual people are becoming with their mundane existences.

we're ignoring the bigger picture. all of our perceived "dominance" over nature belies the fact that we're still just one bad week away from total barbarism. modern society attempts to distract us from this reality, but the world we share and our very lives are tedious as f*ck and no one is looking around or concerned with the how's and why's of what holds it together. it's all distraction until you die. money? bullsh*t. politics? bullsh*t. cars and video games? cool, but bullsh*t. it's all distraction that is aimed at keeping us from asking the kinds of questions or achieving the kinds of understanding that would truly begin to harmonize the world and improve life for everyone instead of just the temporary ego.

 

because right now it's still too primitive. all this technology amounts to little more than a clever facade set upon the chimpanzee. the ape, the baboon within, masquerading as some kind of arbiter. everything is still about competition and personal gains and maximum potential. zero-sum, one-upping, back-scratching, back-stabbing, bridge-burning, foiling the opponent and spoils of war.

 

why.

why?

 

who's winning? we're all on the same team. we're all playing in the same stadium.

guy with a billion dollars eventually dies and turns to dust just like the guy with no dollars. and after another 1,000 years nobody is going to remember EITHER of them. meanwhile everyone else is fighting and clawing through relationships they're not maximizing or jobs they hate or cognitive/physical potential that is completely going to waste. for what.

 

for what?

get up every day. get in your little metal box. travel along massive slabs of concrete. labor throughout the day in order to receive paper and/or electronic numbers that magically appear in your name. get in your little metal box. travel along massive slabs of concrete. exchange said paper and/or magical electronic numbers for the food you need to stay alive and the clothes on your back. and maybe some other bullsh*t you don't really need to distract you from the fact that you're going to get up tomorrow and it all over again.

 

so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again. so that you can get up tomorrow and do it all over again.

 

...

 

there has to be more to it than that.

I'm not talking about a god or an afterlife or a beforelife. because the truth is so much more fascinating than any man-made fiction.

 

where did we come from?

where are we going?

we've stopped asking these questions. we're just running along. too busy. not enough time. not enough money.

but all we have is time. there has to be so much more to it than that.

 

I mean think about it. we're all the same goddamn thing. we're all connected.

as far as we know, when you get down to the smallest level, everything is comprised of the same things. at the molecular level we are the same as the desk, the chair we're sitting in, and the keyboard we're typing on. it's all the same sh*t in different arrangements.

 

IT'S ALL THE SAME SH*T. EVERYTHING.

in different arrangements. doesn't anyone stop to contemplate this?? everything you see and know is comprised of the very material that was born deep inside the guts of ancient stars countless lightyears away which - upon the cataclysmic explosion of their deaths - spilled out into the universe and drifted through space and time. eventually arriving at the point when it would be rearranged into forming the structures we now recognize as Earth and it's various Flora and Fauna.

 

but also, EVERYTHING ELSE. literally everything. every square inch of every planet and every rock.

it keeps me up at night. to this day. and this grand feeling of awe and inspiration and wonderment and fear which accompanies it all at once only becomes stronger the older I get. the more I learn about our little place in history, the more it both shocks and humbles me. and by that same token the more I learn about our little place in time, the more I distress about how much society is ignoring it.

 

it doesn't have to be this way.

we have the power and "wealth" to feed, clothe, and shelter the worlds populace. no one needs to suffer. that's the biggest, saddest, and most troubling epiphany of all. NO ONE NEEDS TO SUFFER. I'm an atheist but there before the grace of god go I you hypocritical religious cock suckers; anyone could be born into any situation. we're all lucky even if it's extremely unlucky. none of us deserve to feel so self righteous. to hoard. to be greedy. to be selfish. to claim to know the answers. to claim secret knowledge. to mislead. to betray trust.

 

but the world still trades and profits in ignorance, suffering, and division when what we need is inclusion, empathy, and understanding.

NOW.

do you guys know of a response to this???

 

cHHSuBv.gif

Edited by El Diablo

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Tyler

You would enjoy Rawls work concerning the veil of ignorance a lot I think, El_D. On top of that, you'd probably like some criticism of capitalism (especially late-stage) and general social theory concerning consumer culture. In many respects I agree with you on the profound frustration of dealing with what seems to be a willing charade of ignorance, but my perspective lends me to believe it's based on a very nuanced system that's been building up for a long, long time, and has, thanks to the ridiculous luck afforded to burgeoning society, gone mostly unfettered because of the superficially satisfying life it allows for.

 

If you would like to know why we aren't living in a society where everyone is equal, I would suggest simply asking people you know and gauging there answer. The unfortunate tendency of people living in more developed nations is to abstract the idea of communal equality. It's justifiable to excuse disparity through things like, say, a lack of responsibility (in the case of the homeless in our nation), or a simple unfortunate history that they can quite sadly do nothing about (in the case of nations living in crippling poverty).

 

But then, it's far more than just a personal opinion on the nature of inequality being pervasive-- the systems in place right now are just geared toward a continuance of a status quo that was, during their creation, dependent on the exploitation of workers and indefinite resource acquisition for innovation and growth. It's a model that has lead us to where we are now, and by most metrics people are doing better than ever, so the idea of changing seems counter-intuitive. I think most people use that justification to stop thinking about the underlying framework of modern society then and there.

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El Dildo

But then, it's far more than just a personal opinion on the nature of inequality being pervasive-- the systems in place right now are just geared toward a continuance of a status quo that was, during their creation, dependent on the exploitation of workers and indefinite resource acquisition for innovation and growth. It's a model that has lead us to where we are now, and by most metrics people are doing better than ever, so the idea of changing seems counter-intuitive. I think most people use that justification to stop thinking about the underlying framework of modern society then and there.

on the one hand it makes perfect sense.

I'm not implying that our system is the result of random chance, by any means.

 

if I was born rich and didn't know any better I would advocate strongly for the status quo.

like my forefathers. and their forefathers.

 

it doesn't excuse the fact that on the other hand it's still completely out of whack and contributing heavily to inner decay.

a rising tide really does lift all boats including the guys on the yachts. if the 'underclasses' were doing better, the upperclasses would do even better. the most confounding thing about our backwards society is the utter laziness at both ends. I guess the stereotype is that poor people are lazy? when the laziest group on Earth is filthy rich assholes resting their laurels on trust funds and dividends that suck capital and energy out of the economy while providing nothing in return. they produce nothing but their own interests rates. they're not job creators. the f*cking money doesn't f*cking TRICKLE DOWN. only their oppressive rules and regulations that strap us down and free them up.

 

when you're rich society simply throws more money and savings at you.

when you're poor society squeezes you for every single fractional cent of your existence.

 

the rich could be even richer if they allowed the underclasses to climb up the ladder nearer to them.

but they would rather squeeze and oppress. why. why. why.

 

billionaires could still be billionaires and more. they don't have to push us down in order to fly. they would fly even higher if there were more of us beneath their wings. but they would simply rather collect the interest, put their blinders on, put up their gated communities, inter-marry, isolate themselves, and pretend that the real world doesn't exist outside their enclaves. at what point do common folk not get the urge to storm these neighborhoods and drag these f*cking fag*ots out into the streets and burn them alive? my life is doing alright, but even I can feel that tension when I talk to my parents, my brother, my friends, etc about their struggles. my blinders aren't on. I realize that the disparity outside my door is already staggering and only growing.

 

there are so many occasions in the course of human events where we can point to and say "aha! see, the long curve of history eventually bends toward justice!" but I really don't see it happening this time, around this issue. I don't know what it's going to take to break the human species out of this current debilitating mindset of personal greed, maximized profits, and satisfying the ego in spite of the greater good. I don't know how we're going to do it this time. it's monumentally depressing if I stop working and smoking weed long enough to think about it......

Edited by El Diablo

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GTA36362355

Despite having secured physical survival, the basic instincts force humans to survive socially and this leads to a lot of problems as EVERYONE is inadvertently operating out of survival. My beliefs are that of a spiritual skeptic and I do intuitively relate to all of us as a single organic system yet finding our everyday lives so egocentric, competitive and marred with pointless endeavors, I do not believe that this system can work in union towards creating an equally beneficial world or society.

 

I find myself wondering about a Utopian world devoid of money or materialism but cannot conclude whether it would progress or regress. The inner decay that El_diablo speaks of is more of a moral concept to me and I do not believe in morality. Neither do I believe in dominance as it only creates more separatism. Nietzsche speaks about will to power but what kind of power that is willed is only shaped by the environment that we live in and is not independent of external influences which is the matrix to me and the red pill doesn't help much, instead creates more chaos in my head. I do not believe in free-will when my choices are determined only by the conditioning that I've already gone through.

Edited by Mister Kay

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j peril

Be it large or small, present beliefs as you wish, and tell us why we should believe them (or not believe them). Anything from politics to religion to culture to really anything, as long as you articulate your point and allow for discussion. Don't worry about presenting an entire ethos in one post. You may stick to one topic on your mind, and come back and post something else later on.

 

Great topic.

 

In my personal view existence is eternal and infinite. In other words, existence is everlasting and immeasurable.

 

Existence exists because nonexistence does not exist.

 

Existence did not begin and existence will not end. To say existence began is to imply a previous state of nonexistence and nonexistence does not and did not exist.

 

Existence just is. Existence was not created. To say that existence was created is to say that existence began, and as stated above, existence did not begin.

 

Existence was not intelligently designed, it was not intelligently created as it wasn't created, but it does concern intelligence because we possess it. To a certain degree, anyway.

 

Existence is essentially infinite things, in infinite ways, in infinite places, bouncing and bumping, flowing and flipping, flipping and flopping, whizzing and whirling around. Life is simply a product of that. In fact that's all we are. Beating, pumping hearts, flowing blood, whirling arms and bouncing feet. The "right" things just happened to come together in precisely the "right" way to allow this. Of course in an environment of infinite things one would expect this to eventually happen.

 

Existence is eternal, it is infinite, unlimited, yet with our limited perspectives we are inclined to measure existence when essentially existence is immeasurable.

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Typhus
Posted (edited)

An interesting topic!

For myself, I believe that technology has the power to transform us. And I don't mean in regards to emotions,but a literal change in human society, and eventually our entire design as a species. The internet has started this, and created a kind of hive mind, where people are connected in a manner never before possible for us. This is not a bad thing. I have always respected the insect world, the societies of the bee and the ant, for their unity of purpose, and I see that same basic idea reflected in modern humanity's relationship with its technology.

 

Eventually, I see this evolving even further, and our biological forms eventually becoming merged more and more with this technology. Not our brains, though, there's still too much we don't know on that front. But the changes offered by this concept are staggering to contemplate. Human augmentation will mark a new chapter in the history of our species. And whilst some would see nefarious motives in it, I view it as a positive step for a species blessed with self awareness and ambition, which many other animals lack.

 

I think the desire of humanity to become something other than human is laudable, and we should be less squeamish about it.

Edited by Typhus

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SaveTheZombies

^Did you ever see Videodrome? I think you'd like it.

I have often thought that the internet has become our collective unconscious.

 

"People should be beat up for stating their beliefs."

-TMBG

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j peril

An interesting topic!

For myself, I believe that technology has the power to transform us. And I don't mean in regards to emotions,but a literal change in human society, and eventually our entire design as a species. The internet has started this, and created a kind of hive mind, where people are connected in a manner never before possible for us. This is not a bad thing. I have always respected the insect world, the societies of the bee and the ant, for their unity of purpose, and I see that same basic idea reflected in modern humanity's relationship with its technology.

 

Eventually, I see this evolving even further, and our biological forms eventually becoming merged more and more with this technology. Not our brains, though, there's still too much we don't know on that front. But the changes offered by this concept are staggering to contemplate. Human augmentation will mark a new chapter in the history of our species. And whilst some would see nefarious motives in it, I view it as a positive step for a species blessed with self awareness and ambition, which many other animals lack.

 

I think the desire of humanity to become something other than human is laudable, and we should be less squeamish about it.

Never satisfied but always motivated. Life isn't good enough. Things aren't good enough. We must improve. We must become a toaster. We will be able to travel from Mars to Venus! Then what? What will be next on the list of achievements? Won't that get old too? And then won't further advancement be sought? All while more children are sacrificed to war, cancer and disease. Sacrifice more children for your silly dreams. Put more people in the dirt. Birth additional future slaves to fulfill your prestigious goals. So you can become toasters.
There is no "purpose". "Purpose" is just made-up nonsense. Those insects are just surviving to survive. Biological entities possess an inherent fear of death which pushes them onward in their survival. They're stuck in the same stupid cycle we're stuck in.

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Typhus

 

An interesting topic!

For myself, I believe that technology has the power to transform us. And I don't mean in regards to emotions,but a literal change in human society, and eventually our entire design as a species. The internet has started this, and created a kind of hive mind, where people are connected in a manner never before possible for us. This is not a bad thing. I have always respected the insect world, the societies of the bee and the ant, for their unity of purpose, and I see that same basic idea reflected in modern humanity's relationship with its technology.

 

Eventually, I see this evolving even further, and our biological forms eventually becoming merged more and more with this technology. Not our brains, though, there's still too much we don't know on that front. But the changes offered by this concept are staggering to contemplate. Human augmentation will mark a new chapter in the history of our species. And whilst some would see nefarious motives in it, I view it as a positive step for a species blessed with self awareness and ambition, which many other animals lack.

 

I think the desire of humanity to become something other than human is laudable, and we should be less squeamish about it.

Never satisfied but always motivated. Life isn't good enough. Things aren't good enough. We must improve. We must become a toaster. We will be able to travel from Mars to Venus! Then what? What will be next on the list of achievements? Won't that get old too? And then won't further advancement be sought? All while more children are sacrificed to war, cancer and disease. Sacrifice more children for your silly dreams. Put more people in the dirt. Birth additional future slaves to fulfill your prestigious goals. So you can become toasters.
There is no "purpose". "Purpose" is just made-up nonsense. Those insects are just surviving to survive. Biological entities possess an inherent fear of death which pushes them onward in their survival. They're stuck in the same stupid cycle we're stuck in.

 

How profound.

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sivispacem

Quite. Seems that, not content with spaffing up one thread in this subforum with incoherent nonsense, our friend here has started to move onto others.

 

The more I read these posts, the more I think this might be the return of a previously banned member. Rusty/Absurdity, is that you?

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Eutyphro
Posted (edited)

What he is saying reminds me of that over 1000 page suicide note of the guy who shot himself at Harvard. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9429159-suicide-note You can coherently argue that life is miserable, purposeless and dreadful. Whether you want to think life is good is really a matter of faith. I choose to believe life is good, because I want to flourish and live a happy life.

Edited by Eutyphro

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ArmyRaidFail404

The trouble with society (particularly western societies) is that it is indeed all based upon the exploitation of others. In my view - Marxist, for lack of a will to over define it - Capitalism is that exploitative ideology that we should put blame on. Why? Because the consequences of capitalism greatly outweigh any (if any) benefits it may have. Philosophically, if you look at humanity through the scope of capitalism we are nothing more than commodities to be traded. Instead of being freely able to pursue our interests and achieve hapiness through our own labour, the potential for our labour is literally bought, and we have no resolve but to sell it because the refusal to do so puts our own survival at risk.

 

Sadly, that's where people's understanding usually stops - if it ever even gets to that point to begin with. Most people would rather accept that this is the way it is because taking down the beast is just simply not viable. It's hard to run for office, or in a more extreme sense, violently revolt against the status quo as we simply don't have the resources. Even if you did, you'd still have to convince people that there is another way. That's not even the tip of the iceberg.

 

Living under a society you subconsciously hate, having no power to do anything about it, being constantly bombarded with images of "the greener pasture" which is simply unrealistic to even dream about obtaining - it's spirit-breaking. The exact kind of spirit breaking that occurs when all your life you are convinced that there is no other way, and that essentially your life can never amount to anything because of that.

 

The way I see it, you can lead a fulfilling life. It's just that the powers that be would rather that you starve to death doing so.

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uq7451

EDIT: i wrote this due to insecurity and fear. Its stupid so i deleted it. nothing to see here

Edited by uq7451

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Eutyphro

i believe our consciousness is a farce and our tormentors are evading prosecution

I believe you should look for help by a mental health professional.

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Hayduke

I believe that some people mistook the purpose of this thread to be baby's first philosophy.

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denerys

I believe that we don't really have a purpose here on Earth. We are just dust that happened to evolve one way or another. That's why we have to live life without regrets.

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AlienTwo
DXOTtPTU0AAT2qB.png

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Short Stay

 

 

 

 

but the world still trades and profits in ignorance, suffering, and division when what we need is inclusion, empathy, and understanding.

NOW.

do you guys know of a response to this???

 

 

 

What makes you so sure that what we need is "inclusion, empathy, and understanding"? Certainly, most people believe these are good things to have. I believe they are good things to have, but am I right?

 

Without ignorance, suffering and division we probably wouldn't have got beyond being blobs of slime (ok, slime can't be ignorant, nor can it suffer, but it does have to divide.) Most of us would like World Peace to exist but would it necessarily lead to a better outcomes than small, sporadic wars, or even, major wars? None of us know for sure.

 

There surely exists a term for when we don't know which moral path leads to the greatest good, but we do our moral best and hope for the best, thereby absolving ourselves of responsibility for the outcomes of our choices. i.e. we can turn round and say "I tried my best".

 

Muddle-through morality? Hit and Hope morality?

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