Why were no animals added with "next gen" Online

[SaltyGTAFMember]

 

 

Comparing minecraft to gta.

Notch is richer then R*

 

Minecraft is the third best selling game in history, Notch is literally swimming in money even though the community basically made the game for him, he gets an additional 2 billion from Microsoft. Spends no money on marketing, has YouTubers do it for him. Notch also releases free snapshots and openly states people can pirate the game if they want. Game retails for less than half of GTA 5, sales are still roughly twice what GTA 5's are.

 

 

You can compare Minecraft to any game thanks to the ability to build and change skins hence why the video I shared featured Michael, Trevor and Franklin performing heists.

 

Also Notch dropped 70mill on his house while Houser spent a measly 12mill

Notch dropped 70mill on his house while Houser spent a measly 12mill

 

The discussion was Rockstar the corporation vs notch, yes hes richer then housers but this was about Rockstar the corporation.

[Egonga]

The lack of new content means that I've been playing through story mode to keep myself entertained, and there just feels like so much more in story mode than Online. Example: I stole a Massacro with Michael and the interior was beautiful. All black leather with white stitching. I bought a Massacro online recently and by comparison the interior is just bland black plastic.

[DarkSavageDeathlyCloud]

I wish more people were upset about having last gen consoles because this is never gonna get old.

 

 

OP - please tell us more.

Problem i have with some people here though is when someone complains about something on old gen people generaly take that as an excuse to brag about them having a new gen console and feeling superior while never even getting the fact that even if next month gtao services for old gen are terminated still there are many people that are never gonna buy an new gen console or simply not untill the prices dropped

[Furry_Monkey]

 

I wish more people were upset about having last gen consoles because this is never gonna get old.

 

 

OP - please tell us more.

Problem i have with some people here though is when someone complains about something on old gen people generaly take that as an excuse to brag about them having a new gen console and feeling superior while never even getting the fact that even if next month gtao services for old gen are terminated still there are many people that are never gonna buy an new gen console or simply not untill the prices dropped

 

 

Yeah, I hear you. It's the internet, isn't it. If it wasn't "my gen's better than your gen" then it would be something else.

[DarkSavageDeathlyCloud]

 

 

I wish more people were upset about having last gen consoles because this is never gonna get old.

 

OP - please tell us more.

 

Problem i have with some people here though is when someone complains about something on old gen people generaly take that as an excuse to brag about them having a new gen console and feeling superior while never even getting the fact that even if next month gtao services for old gen are terminated still there are many people that are never gonna buy an new gen console or simply not untill the prices dropped

 

Yeah, I hear you. It's the internet, isn't it. If it wasn't "my gen's better than your gen" then it would be something else.

So...youre a self proclaimed internet dick ?

[Furry_Monkey]

 

 

 

I wish more people were upset about having last gen consoles because this is never gonna get old.

 

OP - please tell us more.

Problem i have with some people here though is when someone complains about something on old gen people generaly take that as an excuse to brag about them having a new gen console and feeling superior while never even getting the fact that even if next month gtao services for old gen are terminated still there are many people that are never gonna buy an new gen console or simply not untill the prices dropped

Yeah, I hear you. It's the internet, isn't it. If it wasn't "my gen's better than your gen" then it would be something else.

So...youre a self proclaimed internet dick ?

 

 

Eh? I don't brag about having a newer console. I still support users of my work on PS3 and am actually considering buying the game a 3rd time so I can support Xbox 360 users as well. I was being snarky at the OP for being exactly what you describe, not rubbing my awesome new console in his face

Edited February 3, 2015 by Furry_Monkey

[punishthem420]

Console limitations

Ha good one !

[DarkSavageDeathlyCloud]

 

 

 

 

I wish more people were upset about having last gen consoles because this is never gonna get old.

 

OP - please tell us more.

Problem i have with some people here though is when someone complains about something on old gen people generaly take that as an excuse to brag about them having a new gen console and feeling superior while never even getting the fact that even if next month gtao services for old gen are terminated still there are many people that are never gonna buy an new gen console or simply not untill the prices dropped

Yeah, I hear you. It's the internet, isn't it. If it wasn't "my gen's better than your gen" then it would be something else.

So...youre a self proclaimed internet dick ?

 

 

Eh? I don't brag about having a newer console. I still support users of my work on PS3 and am actually considering buying the game a 3rd time so I can support Xbox 360 users as well. I was being snarky at the OP for being exactly what you describe, not rubbing my awesome new console in his face

 

oh sorry then.

in that case, respect bro

[Furry_Monkey]

 

 

 

 

 

I wish more people were upset about having last gen consoles because this is never gonna get old.

 

OP - please tell us more.

Problem i have with some people here though is when someone complains about something on old gen people generaly take that as an excuse to brag about them having a new gen console and feeling superior while never even getting the fact that even if next month gtao services for old gen are terminated still there are many people that are never gonna buy an new gen console or simply not untill the prices dropped

Yeah, I hear you. It's the internet, isn't it. If it wasn't "my gen's better than your gen" then it would be something else.

So...youre a self proclaimed internet dick ?

 

 

Eh? I don't brag about having a newer console. I still support users of my work on PS3 and am actually considering buying the game a 3rd time so I can support Xbox 360 users as well. I was being snarky at the OP for being exactly what you describe, not rubbing my awesome new console in his face

 

oh sorry then.

in that case, respect bro

 

 

No worries. Shoot first, ask later. It happens to all of us

[OurJud]

Minecraft can manage larger worlds with more detail..

 

Let's stop there. More detail?? Are you serious?? We are talking about that kid's game with block graphics that looks like it was made in about 1996, aren't we??

Edited February 3, 2015 by OurJud

[Bootels]

I dont understand whats so hard about replacing an NPC and turning it into a stupid dog.

[Dirty Hairy]

wildlife was a major factor in your decision? yeah ok

[Geisterfaust]

Did R* say why? So much for the "next gen" release. Glad I didn't waste money on it, was a straight port with improved graphics and first person that I doubt many people use online.

Also heard people having the same connection issues like no full lobbies.

Lobby issues are very acceptable on Xbox One right now. At least, it's not worse than on 360 when I was playing there. Graphics is superior, framerate is absolutely deal breaking and worth the money itself. Bigger lobbies are also great. Just play new version for a day and you will be convinced. But nobody is forcing you. If you like old version, stick with it.

On the animals... It's due to the networks and average internet connection of the average player. With custom servers it will be possible, I believe.

[Rented]

On the animals... It's due to the networks and average internet connection of the average player. With custom servers it will be possible, I believe.

 

[Rented]

 

Console limitations

 

 

 

P2P server aka network limitations. They might appear on pc due to the server being dedicated but it's never coming to consoles.

 

I will give this another try explaining it as simply as possible.

 

It is possible, they are just like any pedestrians walking down the street, they are normal NPCs with a different model and animation, if you say anything utterly idiotic like console or network limitations I will punch you in the face because an increased number of NPCs had LITERALLY NO EFFECT on my frame rate, connection or anything, here is a picture proof that the number of NPCs ware dramatically increased and nothing was affected.:

[tenpennyisplainevil]

If they can add an entire Bahama Mamas interior, they can add a few animals. This can't be about limitations

[SaltyGTAFMember]

 

 

Console limitations

 

 

 

P2P server aka network limitations. They might appear on pc due to the server being dedicated but it's never coming to consoles.

 

I will give this another try explaining it as simply as possible.

 

It is possible, they are just like any pedestrians walking down the street, they are normal NPCs with a different model and animation, if you say anything utterly idiotic like console or network limitations I will punch you in the face because an increased number of NPCs had LITERALLY NO EFFECT on my frame rate, connection or anything, here is a picture proof that the number of NPCs ware dramatically increased and nothing was affected.:

 

Ok do it in a 18(not even 25) person lobby make them all get they unique cars, and see what happens when you try and do this.

Get out of solo sessions.

Edited February 4, 2015 by DumbForum

[Lesbian_farts]

Because Rockstar, Duh.

[FourFingersOfFun]

It's be nice if someone actually read this for once since you all keep crying about is how it's not network limitations even though it is. Taken from reddit.

 

 

We keep rehashing this same subject all the time.

Animals won't be coming online, for quite a while at least. The limitation has never been the console hardware, it has always been to remain within the network bandwidth goals of a 256/64 DSL connection.

Adding animals means that some other telemetry would have to be eliminated, such as NPC traffic in order to free up bandwidth for animal telemetry.

The best I think we can hope for is that Rockstar increase their minimum specs to 512/128 DSL which would allow for more entities, or a significant improvement in their network optimisation (which has already allowed for 30 players Online).

Remember, each animal needs to be tracked, and that tracking (telemetry) needs to be spread between users in the session. If you add a dozen animals, they are the equivalent of a dozen cars, or NPC pedestrians.

From a managerial decision perspective, the discussion would have gone down like this:

Managers: Okay, so to meet the bandwidth goals we have to limit entities, which entities will we cut in an open world sandbox? Well, if you look around the city right now, what do you see?

Designers: Cars, people, that sort of thing, not animals.

Managers: Precisely, so to maintain a sense of realism the animals are the first to go, Online would look stupid if animals were everywhere, but there were no cars or pedestrians.

*shrug* it sucks, but until the bandwidth can be either optimised, or a subset of users on slower internet connections get left out in the cold ... animals will never be online.

[JON22]

Plenty of animals with mics online bragging about how their skin is better and spitting the fggt word. They tend to appear in herds.

[Totallycasual]

I really hope that PC GTA online doesn't have any graphical downgrade and missing animals like the consoles do, i love roaming around doing random stuff on my online character, not much interest in story mode once its over.

[Nutduster]

 

 

Console limitations

 

 

 

P2P server aka network limitations. They might appear on pc due to the server being dedicated but it's never coming to consoles.

 

I will give this another try explaining it as simply as possible.

 

It is possible, they are just like any pedestrians walking down the street, they are normal NPCs with a different model and animation, if you say anything utterly idiotic like console or network limitations I will punch you in the face because an increased number of NPCs had LITERALLY NO EFFECT on my frame rate, connection or anything, here is a picture proof that the number of NPCs ware dramatically increased and nothing was affected.:

 

 

Jesus H. Christ. It doesn't even seem to be worth the time to explain this to you again. I've never seen someone who was so convinced they were right and yet seemed unable to even understand what they are being told.

 

First of all, forget frame rate. That would be affected only by the console being unable to handle the rendering and we KNOW that isn't the problem because single player has more happening on screen pretty much all the time than Online usually does. Anyone telling you it's a hardware problem is wrong. On that much we agree.

 

As for "connection," I don't really know what you mean by that. What I (and others who believe it's a network limitation) are telling you is that too many tracked entities in a P2P session causes lag. So Rockstar puts a hard cap in their code on how much stuff can be spawned all around you, and turns off animals completely to make sure that the things spawning up to that cap are NPCs,cars, and dynamic objects (signs, rocks, fences - anything that can break or move), as well as obviously other players, which get absolute priority. You will rarely see that kind of lag though, for a couple of reasons:

 

1. The aforementioned hard-coded cap. They're trying NOT to give you lag. The game is rarely going to push into circumstances where your connection is overworked and NPCs start teleporting around or despawning, because it's designed not to do that.

 

2. Most of the stuff spawning around you is coming off YOUR game and YOUR hard drive. This is P2P, remember? There's no host server, so everything happening in your field of vision is hosted either on your box or someone else's. In a solo session, it's ALL on your box. That makes it effectively single player - hence no lag no matter how much is going on. (They could easily have animals in a solo session, but it would just confuse the issue for players who already don't understand any of this.) If you're driving down a street with no other players nearby, everything spawning in front of you - in your vision cone - is generated by your local copy of the game engine, and the data that enables other players to see and interact with those objects, if they enter the area, is sent to them. When players come into contact with each other, the game is meshing (literally interweaving) the telemetry so that you all see the same things. That's when you start getting NPC data from other consoles, and when lag becomes a possibility. SO... you standing in a driveway with an army of NPCs and not having lag tells you absolutely nothing about how the game would handle animals and lots of other NPC entities on a busy street with four other players shooting at each other. That is when it becomes a problem, and is what the whole game is optimized and limited to avoid happening.

 

Beyond all that... do you ever drive around in a public session and see NPCs glitching out? Pedestrians or cars teleporting, driving erratically (not meaning "badly" but rather jerkily, not following the normal game physics), or flat-out vanishing before your eyes? Those are lag artifacts. The game is already prone to them when users in session have bad internet connections, or when too many packets are being fired around at once. It's to Rockstar's credit that it happens as seldom as it does. But if animals were in the mix, or denser traffic or more peds (a la single player)... boom, lots of lag.

 

Most of this is just P2P multiplayer 101. If you can't wrap your head around it even as a basic concept, it's really not worth discussing further.

[Eggobites90]

Maybe it has something to do with the extra 14 players per lobby all driving, shooting, and exploding things...

[saintsrow]

I am sure it's been said, but the reason there are no animals in next gen is that Rockstar expected to have 30 animals in each lobby and they thought that would be enough.

Edited February 4, 2015 by saintsrow

[FourFingersOfFun]

 

 

 

 

 

Console limitations

 

P2P server aka network limitations. They might appear on pc due to the server being dedicated but it's never coming to consoles.

I will give this another try explaining it as simply as possible.

 

It is possible, they are just like any pedestrians walking down the street, they are normal NPCs with a different model and animation, if you say anything utterly idiotic like console or network limitations I will punch you in the face because an increased number of NPCs had LITERALLY NO EFFECT on my frame rate, connection or anything, here is a picture proof that the number of NPCs ware dramatically increased and nothing was affected.:

 

Jesus H. Christ. It doesn't even seem to be worth the time to explain this to you again. I've never seen someone who was so convinced they were right and yet seemed unable to even understand what they are being told.

 

First of all, forget frame rate. That would be affected only by the console being unable to handle the rendering and we KNOW that isn't the problem because single player has more happening on screen pretty much all the time than Online usually does. Anyone telling you it's a hardware problem is wrong. On that much we agree.

 

As for "connection," I don't really know what you mean by that. What I (and others who believe it's a network limitation) are telling you is that too many tracked entities in a P2P session causes lag. So Rockstar puts a hard cap in their code on how much stuff can be spawned all around you, and turns off animals completely to make sure that the things spawning up to that cap are NPCs,cars, and dynamic objects (signs, rocks, fences - anything that can break or move), as well as obviously other players, which get absolute priority. You will rarely see that kind of lag though, for a couple of reasons:

 

1. The aforementioned hard-coded cap. They're trying NOT to give you lag. The game is rarely going to push into circumstances where your connection is overworked and NPCs start teleporting around or despawning, because it's designed not to do that.

 

2. Most of the stuff spawning around you is coming off YOUR game and YOUR hard drive. This is P2P, remember? There's no host server, so everything happening in your field of vision is hosted either on your box or someone else's. In a solo session, it's ALL on your box. That makes it effectively single player - hence no lag no matter how much is going on. (They could easily have animals in a solo session, but it would just confuse the issue for players who already don't understand any of this.) If you're driving down a street with no other players nearby, everything spawning in front of you - in your vision cone - is generated by your local copy of the game engine, and the data that enables other players to see and interact with those objects, if they enter the area, is sent to them. When players come into contact with each other, the game is meshing (literally interweaving) the telemetry so that you all see the same things. That's when you start getting NPC data from other consoles, and when lag becomes a possibility. SO... you standing in a driveway with an army of NPCs and not having lag tells you absolutely nothing about how the game would handle animals and lots of other NPC entities on a busy street with four other players shooting at each other. That is when it becomes a problem, and is what the whole game is optimized and limited to avoid happening.

 

Beyond all that... do you ever drive around in a public session and see NPCs glitching out? Pedestrians or cars teleporting, driving erratically (not meaning "badly" but rather jerkily, not following the normal game physics), or flat-out vanishing before your eyes? Those are lag artifacts. The game is already prone to them when users in session have bad internet connections, or when too many packets are being fired around at once. It's to Rockstar's credit that it happens as seldom as it does. But if animals were in the mix, or denser traffic or more peds (a la single player)... boom, lots of lag.

 

Most of this is just P2P multiplayer 101. If you can't wrap your head around it even as a basic concept, it's really not worth discussing further.

I love you for this post, so much. Now hopefully people will finally get it through their f*cking heads that's animals aren't coming and network limitations is why.

[codsnipeZz]

Because immature players would shoot them, if a player shot a animal they deserve massive amounts of bad sport or cheater pool.

[saintsrow]

If they can add an entire Bahama Mamas interior, they can add a few animals. This can't be about limitations

No, see, the problem is the AI. Animals are 10X as smart as NPCs, so the game just can't handle the extra load. Similarly, NPCs are 10X as smart as GTA0 players, so this AI is what has been causing the limitation on the number of NPCs. Luckily, the total pathetically small player intelligence, even in a full 30-douche next gen lobby, presents virtually no AI load on the system.

 

If one doubts that NPCs are smarter than GTA0 players, just compare the relative intelligence of an NPC cellphone conversation to the intelligence exhibited in Player Chat.

Edited February 4, 2015 by saintsrow

[InfernalOutcast]

Couldn't animals spawn if you were deep enough in a forest or something and nowhere near a road (aka where cars and NPCs wouldn't spawn?)

[Xyn]

 

 

Jesus H. Christ. It doesn't even seem to be worth the time to explain this to you again. I've never seen someone who was so convinced they were right and yet seemed unable to even understand what they are being told.

 

First of all, forget frame rate. That would be affected only by the console being unable to handle the rendering and we KNOW that isn't the problem because single player has more happening on screen pretty much all the time than Online usually does. Anyone telling you it's a hardware problem is wrong. On that much we agree.

 

As for "connection," I don't really know what you mean by that. What I (and others who believe it's a network limitation) are telling you is that too many tracked entities in a P2P session causes lag. So Rockstar puts a hard cap in their code on how much stuff can be spawned all around you, and turns off animals completely to make sure that the things spawning up to that cap are NPCs,cars, and dynamic objects (signs, rocks, fences - anything that can break or move), as well as obviously other players, which get absolute priority. You will rarely see that kind of lag though, for a couple of reasons:

 

1. The aforementioned hard-coded cap. They're trying NOT to give you lag. The game is rarely going to push into circumstances where your connection is overworked and NPCs start teleporting around or despawning, because it's designed not to do that.

 

2. Most of the stuff spawning around you is coming off YOUR game and YOUR hard drive. This is P2P, remember? There's no host server, so everything happening in your field of vision is hosted either on your box or someone else's. In a solo session, it's ALL on your box. That makes it effectively single player - hence no lag no matter how much is going on. (They could easily have animals in a solo session, but it would just confuse the issue for players who already don't understand any of this.) If you're driving down a street with no other players nearby, everything spawning in front of you - in your vision cone - is generated by your local copy of the game engine, and the data that enables other players to see and interact with those objects, if they enter the area, is sent to them. When players come into contact with each other, the game is meshing (literally interweaving) the telemetry so that you all see the same things. That's when you start getting NPC data from other consoles, and when lag becomes a possibility. SO... you standing in a driveway with an army of NPCs and not having lag tells you absolutely nothing about how the game would handle animals and lots of other NPC entities on a busy street with four other players shooting at each other. That is when it becomes a problem, and is what the whole game is optimized and limited to avoid happening.

 

Beyond all that... do you ever drive around in a public session and see NPCs glitching out? Pedestrians or cars teleporting, driving erratically (not meaning "badly" but rather jerkily, not following the normal game physics), or flat-out vanishing before your eyes? Those are lag artifacts. The game is already prone to them when users in session have bad internet connections, or when too many packets are being fired around at once. It's to Rockstar's credit that it happens as seldom as it does. But if animals were in the mix, or denser traffic or more peds (a la single player)... boom, lots of lag.

 

Most of this is just P2P multiplayer 101. If you can't wrap your head around it even as a basic concept, it's really not worth discussing further.

 

 

Someone hand this man a beer.

[Relative007]

 

 

Jesus H. Christ. It doesn't even seem to be worth the time to explain this to you again. I've never seen someone who was so convinced they were right and yet seemed unable to even understand what they are being told.

 

First of all, forget frame rate. That would be affected only by the console being unable to handle the rendering and we KNOW that isn't the problem because single player has more happening on screen pretty much all the time than Online usually does. Anyone telling you it's a hardware problem is wrong. On that much we agree.

 

As for "connection," I don't really know what you mean by that. What I (and others who believe it's a network limitation) are telling you is that too many tracked entities in a P2P session causes lag. So Rockstar puts a hard cap in their code on how much stuff can be spawned all around you, and turns off animals completely to make sure that the things spawning up to that cap are NPCs,cars, and dynamic objects (signs, rocks, fences - anything that can break or move), as well as obviously other players, which get absolute priority. You will rarely see that kind of lag though, for a couple of reasons:

 

1. The aforementioned hard-coded cap. They're trying NOT to give you lag. The game is rarely going to push into circumstances where your connection is overworked and NPCs start teleporting around or despawning, because it's designed not to do that.

 

2. Most of the stuff spawning around you is coming off YOUR game and YOUR hard drive. This is P2P, remember? There's no host server, so everything happening in your field of vision is hosted either on your box or someone else's. In a solo session, it's ALL on your box. That makes it effectively single player - hence no lag no matter how much is going on. (They could easily have animals in a solo session, but it would just confuse the issue for players who already don't understand any of this.) If you're driving down a street with no other players nearby, everything spawning in front of you - in your vision cone - is generated by your local copy of the game engine, and the data that enables other players to see and interact with those objects, if they enter the area, is sent to them. When players come into contact with each other, the game is meshing (literally interweaving) the telemetry so that you all see the same things. That's when you start getting NPC data from other consoles, and when lag becomes a possibility. SO... you standing in a driveway with an army of NPCs and not having lag tells you absolutely nothing about how the game would handle animals and lots of other NPC entities on a busy street with four other players shooting at each other. That is when it becomes a problem, and is what the whole game is optimized and limited to avoid happening.

 

Beyond all that... do you ever drive around in a public session and see NPCs glitching out? Pedestrians or cars teleporting, driving erratically (not meaning "badly" but rather jerkily, not following the normal game physics), or flat-out vanishing before your eyes? Those are lag artifacts. The game is already prone to them when users in session have bad internet connections, or when too many packets are being fired around at once. It's to Rockstar's credit that it happens as seldom as it does. But if animals were in the mix, or denser traffic or more peds (a la single player)... boom, lots of lag.

 

Most of this is just P2P multiplayer 101. If you can't wrap your head around it even as a basic concept, it's really not worth discussing further.

 

 

 

 

 

A good response.

 

At the end of the day, Developers carefully consider the number of Props (so anything that can be instanced) that are placed in Online games as Network Limitations do exist and are not some Imaginary made up concept or idea. Fundamentally more props = more polygons = more information to be communicated = more network bandwidth required.

 

If Network Limitations are not the Issue (which people in other Threads indicating they work in developing games for Online say is the most likely reason for props being removed from Online), R* would have added Animals at the very least to PS4/Xbone for Marketing purposes and hand in hand with this, would allow more Player's in Sessions.

 

Anyone who actually plays the game will know that (particularly on PS3) when Player Activity significantly increases (Police chase etc), the ambient pedestrian and vehicle densities dramatically decrease. If this is not being done as some Hard Limit is being reached, clearly R* are inept at developing Online games.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Relative007