Fix for the traffic glitch? [PS2]

[LeonTheKiller]

Hello,

I think most of you people know about the horrendous traffic glitch that appears after 596+ hours played on the PS2 version . there's a similar glitch on the PC version(albeit less nocive than the Ps2 one), i believe it kicks in after 150+ hours played. I know that you can fix it on PC using a save editor, but is there any solution available for us PS2 users? I recently completed the game again on PS2, i have exactly 100 hours played, and i can say that the traffic is not behaving normally already.

I extracted my ps2 save, and checked it with two different save editors , One jave-based and the other one made by Ryosuke. both of them loaded my save fine. Ryosuke save editor seems to be more reliable and more accurate when trying to edit PS2 saves, plus it's more complete modding wise, but it doesn't have a option to fix the damn traffic glitch, while the java based one does, but i don't trust it at all, it says that i have the basket ball glitch, but i NEVER saved the game at Madd dogg's house. Any help?

PS: I will edit my save and try it to see what happens anyway.

Edited January 23, 2015 by _Douglas_

[HeroBrineR007]

What traffic glitch? You mean cars spawning and driving backwards?

[Lethal Vaccine]

LOL, I see this in III, VC, and SA in my Saves. Cars sometimes do a 180 spin and drive backward. I figured it was a loading "glitch." Kinda like Lightless Taxis. Game can't load it quick enough. The faster you drive, the more pop-in and strange things happening like the cars driving like that...

 

I never knew any of these glitches, though. My total playing time for VC is just under 1 whole day and for SA, it's just under 55 hours...

[HeroBrineR007]

I once had one driving backwards. It was driving at top speed backwards and it never even turned around

Traffic Glitch - a Global Timer Glitch

 

Citing notes from a joint project with pdescobar.

• Symptom: Cars travel backwards (without turning around), morph into each other, and in some cases even appear to "fly." "Jittery" traffic may be an early warning indicator.
• Gameplay Cause: Appears to be related to playing time -- the longer you play (total time played, not single-session) on that save strand, the more likely the glitch will appear and the worse it gets. So far the best examples have all been in saves with playing times over 150 hours.
• Technical Cause: Some interaction between the global timer (stored in block 0) and the traffic-spawning mechanism causes traffic to go screwy. Resetting this timer to a low value (as well as related timers to maintain relative relationships) clears the glitch.
• Untested: the problem appears to be worse near overpasses or in tunnels; possibly related to cull zones.

I always have this on highways. Even in a fresh save... Edited January 23, 2015 by HeroBrineR007

[Lethal Vaccine]

I also have it in new saves, too. If I am driving very fast, the data is not loading properly and those "symptoms" listed above happen to me...

[OrionSR]

I trust you've got the SA Save Wiki (PC) for reference and can tease out any difference in structure of the PS2 save, which is fairly minor for the most part. If the glitch is the same on PC and PS2 the symptoms of the glitch will go away if you reset the global timer to 0. But this will cause a host of other glitches which must then be repaired. You will need to make a dozen or so edits to make the save the least bit playable and hundreds more to finally get everything back to normal. There are probably a few shortcuts, but you should know in advance that this is a very difficult edit.

 

Shortcuts - you might be able to trick hmvartak's online glitch repair tool or the Savegame Editor into working with your PS2 saves by renaming or other minor changes. I don't recommend this strategy; these tools were not designed for PS2 save but they might be able to do some of the work for us. Keep in mind that the current version of the Savegame Editor will alter a few PC global variables that would be inappropriate on PS2, but not hard to fix if it will do everything else. In the long run a fix tool specific for PS2 would be better - if you can prove it will do the trick. (You might be able to skip a step in the process below if you can run a fix on your PS2 save.)

 

Reset the global and weather timers in block 0. Not resetting the weather is fun to watch on PC but transferring saves is a pain on PS2. See if it helps the glitch.

Reset the wake timers in the scripts section of block 1 so your missions and stuff work again. Make sure it works.

 

Check the save wiki and note any block with timer fields in it (cargen, pickup, police trigger, I forget) and paste those blocks into a PC save. Run the fix on the PC save and copy the blocks back into your PS2 save.

 

Check the fast food vendors. Make sure you can eat, puke, wait a day and eat again. (Don't eat for a day or so before resetting the timers.)

Toggle a mission to reset the phone call wait timer.

 

So, congrats, that worked; you are now the best qualified person to see if any tricks to convince the repair tools to fix the save would have been easier in the first place.

 

I do not trust SASE for editing my saves unless I intend to throw it away after a test. It is an outstanding save viewer but has odd quirks that make me suspicious about what else might be messed up. It always seems to flip the cheat flag, the zones are mixed up, and CJ is often wearing different clothes. I have not made an attempt to verify the integrity of this tool.

Edited January 23, 2015 by OrionSR

[Lethal Vaccine]

Sounds like a headache. Which reminds me of the headache I must go through using MS-DOS typing in command lines just to copy a damn save onto my PS2 Memory Card. Talk about pulling teeth...

 

0/10 for User Friendly Interface.

[HeroBrineR007]

Give it a try.

[LeonTheKiller]

 

Reset the global and weather timers in block 0. Not resetting the weather is fun to watch on PC but transferring saves is a pain on PS2. See if it helps the glitch.

Reset the wake timers in the scripts section of block 1 so your missions and stuff work again. Make sure it works.

 

Check the save wiki and note any block with timer fields in it (cargen, pickup, police trigger, I forget) and paste those blocks into a PC save. Run the fix on the PC save and copy the blocks back into your PS2 save.

 

Hey Orion, i did a quick test, i resetted the global and weather timers only(i didn't mess with the others blocks), re-calculated the checksum, and transfered the save back to my PS2. Tested it and got some strange results. The in game clock went nuts, it's fast as if i entered the faster clock cheat. As a side effect the weather went crazy as well. But to my surprise the traffic didn't change one bit, it's still behaving strangely, in a '' jittery '' way, teleporting/speeding here and there, etc. That means that either the global timer doesn't have anything to do with the traffic glitch or that i changed the wrong values in the save.

 

EDIT:

 

Turns out i was right, i messed with the wrong values, instead of changing the Global timer i changed the Minute length value , that's why the in-game clock went crazy. Anyway, i re-edited my save again, and this time i changed the correct values. Tried again , and it worked like a charm! The traffic was behaving perfectly fine, like it does on a fresh save, flowing normally without that annoying '' jittery '' effect. As a side effect of changing the global timer, my total played time went from 107 hours to 0. Also the pickups, pre-parked cars,etc are not spawning, but i know it's because i didn't adjust the other timers. I will do it tomorrow.

Edited January 24, 2015 by _Douglas_

[OrionSR]

Sweet, well done. And that first mess up was worth it. Usually I suggest 1st the global timer and then the weather timer for PC/Android editors so they can watch the weather, but keeping the transfers to a minimum is usually preferred for PS2. I suspect changing the minute length would have a noticeable effect but not to the extreme that you saw. I think the weather timer is running as fast as it possibly can in order to catch up to the global timer which might take years in real time.

 

The scripts will probably be the toughest edit. There's a reasonably good chance the Savegame editor will do it properly. Try it and use it to center your search. Also, SASE can show you each active thread so you know what to look for and can check each one off...

 

I'm starting to think that the Savegame editor can do it properly if you then copy your original global variable space into the modified save. I think the repair tool might handle the rest. The globals are different on PS2 but almost every other structure is pretty much the same - misc block is off a bit, extra stats in one or the other. If CJ can eat properly then you shouldn't need to edit the globals.

 

Yeah... Hey Doug! Do you think you can prove that the Savegame Editor does the job properly for everything except 5 or 6 global variables that I can get the numbers for in a couple of days? I've got them noted somewhere and just need to find them, so fix all globals on an editor fixed save for now. Basically, check what you did already, check all the threads, and then make sure the structure of the blocks for anything else with a timer is the same - same size usually works.

 

Added:

 

Bingo. Dude, if the Savegame Editor can do it properly except for the globals then there's a reasonably good chance we can get Paul to post a slight older version from before we upgraded the fix for PC. At the time I didn't know this problem existed on PS2 so I didn't think to bring it up.

 

And - Paul has never pretended to support PS2. If it works, great. But don't grief him if it doesn't work. He retired this tool a long time ago using the best information available at the time.

Edited January 24, 2015 by OrionSR

[LeonTheKiller]

@OrionSR

 

Do i really need to mess with the script Block? i'm having a hard time finding the proper values that i need to change I can see the threads and stuff in the hex editor, but i'm not sure where the thread timers are located.

Edited January 25, 2015 by _Douglas_

[OrionSR]

If the scripts are not adjusted then no missions will run, not even the main script. The save is basically dead except for ambient stuff. Maybe the fixes can do it, but you won't know if you don't check.

 

Use SASE to find the name of the threads. Search for thread by name. Backtrack 8 bytes tp the start of the thread. The wake timer is at offset 0xCC relative to the start of the thread. So 13 lines - 4 bytes. Or select the range length as dsiplayed in HxD. Or use a goto tool with a relative offset from the cursor.

 

Use the fix on a duplicate save and have both up side by side. Hopefully the timers on the fix save are 0 and this can help you zero in on the right spot in your save.

[LeonTheKiller]

I ran a few tests today, and i got the same results in all of them. First i changed the timers in Block 0, then i copied the block 1, 6,12 and 17 into my PC save and ran the save editor. Applied the traffic glitch fix, saved and copied the blocks back to my PS2 save. Then i got the save back on my PS2, tested it and to my surprise nothing was changed, the same thing as before, no pick-ups, no pre-parked cars, nothing was spawning except for the regular traffic, which is working properly. Also i was able to eat at those hot-dog stands. Looks like Paul's save editor is unable to fix PS2 saves. The online repair tool was unable to load my saves too( both PS2 and the PC save with the blocks from the ps2 save), so the save editor was the only option.

 

Looks like i'm screwed, fixing all the timers manually is just impossible.

Edited January 25, 2015 by _Douglas_

[OrionSR]

Well, not completely screwed just yet. I don't know why that didn't work and now I'm curious enough to figure out why not. The answer may still be the current fixes won't work but I intend to figure out exactly why. Please send me a save that you would like to have repaired.

 

And for the record, very well done. Just getting that save to load properly is quite a challenge.

 

BTW, do you think would an SnP mission checklist for PS2 would be useful to anyone more than once a twice per year?

Edited January 25, 2015 by OrionSR

[LeonTheKiller]

Click here. Sent you a PM instead, check it.

 

I'm really curious why it didn't work, too. Thanks for the help, Orion.

 

 

BTW, do you think would an SnP mission checklist for PS2 would be useful to anyone more than once a twice per year?

 

I know that there's a considerable amount of people that still play the PS2 version out there, but how much of them actually use SnP? i don't know, though it would be great to have a mission checklist for the PS2 version as well.

Edited January 25, 2015 by _Douglas_

[OrionSR]

I don't think it would be all that hard to add the checklist to PS2, but verifying it is working correctly will certainly be a challenge.

 

Don't expect anything too soon. This isn't easy for me either.

 

Added: GTASnP should already be set up to handle PS2 saves.

Edited January 26, 2015 by OrionSR

[LeonTheKiller]

I don't think it would be all that hard to add the checklist to PS2, but verifying it is working correctly will certainly be a challenge.

 

Don't expect anything too soon. This isn't easy for me either.

 

Added: GTASnP should already be set up to handle PS2 saves.

 

 

Ok, thanks. Meanwhile i will try to find a solution. I've been learning a lot in the past few days, i think now i can handle the script block, i'm gonna try to fix the timers manually. i will post the results later. Anyway, why such atrocity happens anyway? i really don't understand how the global timer affects the behavior of the traffic cars. Strangely enough it doesn't affect cop cars and bikes. Weird.

Edited January 26, 2015 by _Douglas_

[OrionSR]

Why is a huge mystery. This issue has been reported to Silent who has been working on a PC patch to repair various quirks and glitches. From my perspective his is grand wizard level modding - tricking the game engine into running his optimized codes instead of the default codes. Silent has been mute on this glitch. Other wizards have confirmed the issue but can only offer vague speculation about where to start looking. The best strategy is still to reset all the timers. Perhaps someday we will learn why this is the only option. I'm not holding out much hope of a repair.

 

http://gtasnp.com/download/45816

 

See if that save does what it is supposed to. This is a PS2 save fixed with the Savegame Editor 3.14 so I repaired the few global variables that were adjusted for PC and fixed the checksum, nothing else. From what I can tell in the editor everything has been adjusted appropriately. I don't see why this won't work. If it does work, then hmvartak's tool should work if he can fix the disk space issues on his host, and version 3.12 of the editor should work just fine for this purpose.

Edited January 26, 2015 by OrionSR

[LeonTheKiller]

Yes ! it worked. I had to change the version id though, otherwise the game would refuse to load the save(i own the original version, not v2). Anyway, i did some extensive testing and everything is working properly, the gym, impound lot, r3 missions, two-player mode, pre-parked cars, pick-ups, police spawning , cranes, transfender, etc. CJ was able to eat and puke, and traffic is working properly, as expected. Everything is in shape. Thanks.

 

I don't know why it didn't work before. I did it just like you told me to do, copied the blocks from my ps2 save in to the PC save, ran the fix and copied the blocks back to the PS2 save and tested it. I did it twice just to be sure, and it didn't work. Weird. I used the Save editor version 3.12, maybe it has something to do with it? Anyway before reading your post, i had fixed all the thread timers in block 1, using a PC save with the fix applied as a reference. I changed all the timers manually, tested it and everything related to the script was working. i had a few ideas about how to reset the Cargen and police trigger timers. Then i came here to tell it to you only to see you had posted a proper fixed save. F*ck me, lol. At least now i know how to edit the wake up thread timers, hehe.

Edited January 27, 2015 by _Douglas_

[OrionSR]

Strange. I'm not sure why SnP is reporting this as a PC save. And I'm surprised your v1 game insists on v1 file IDs, the PC exe doesn't care. Anyway, I didn't change the file ID. I think SnP did that automatically. I've got my preferences set so it won't do that.

 

I'm sorry. Perhaps I should have let you keep at it. But I was baffled by your errors and couldn't help but peek. Have I mentioned that this is a really hard edit? I am very impressed by what you have accomplished. Very few people have ever attempted the stunts you were pulling off.

 

You have v3.12 of the Savegame Editor? My notes suggest that version didn't tweak the PC globals; it should work without modification. I found some old copies but can't find v3.12. It jumps from 3.1 to 3.13.

[LeonTheKiller]

Yeah, it only load saves with the proper version id(4C DC 1D 64). Otherwise it will tell that the save is incompatible and will start a new game.

I'm sorry. Perhaps I should have let you keep at it. But I was baffled by your errors and couldn't help but peek. Have I mentioned that this is a really hard edit? I am very impressed by what you have accomplished. Very few people have ever attempted the stunts you were pulling off.

 

You have v3.12 of the Savegame Editor? My notes suggest that version didn't tweak the PC globals; it should work without modification. I found some old copies but can't find v3.12. It jumps from 3.1 to 3.13.

 

 

 

No, please don't. You are always helpful, always willing to help the community, i'm very grateful for what you did. I wouldn't be able to do this without your help. Thanks. Anyway, yeah, version 3.1.2 , that's what the save editor displays when i click the "about" page. Are you sure it can fix PS2 saves? I'm going to try it then, so we can have a definitive answer. No fancy block swapping, i will just load the save directly in the save editor, apply the fix, and then test it. Let's see how it goes. It would be nice if Paul updated his save editor with proper support for PS2 saves.

Edited January 27, 2015 by _Douglas_

[Lethal Vaccine]

So you guys can do all this, but when we need to copy a PS2 Save to a PS2 Memory Card..........ERROR!

[OrionSR]

Yep. There are some interesting things that can be done to a PS2 save but getting the data out of your little ecosystem and into another is a major challenge.

 

I just heard from hmvartak and he has fixed the problems that prevented me from uploading saves to his Online Glitch Repair Tool. He expressed appropriate concern about us using a tool designed for PC on PS2 saves - don't blame him if it doesn't work. However, I have high hopes it'll do the job properly. I don't have time to run the appropriate tests given there currently isn't a need. Douglas, would you care to compare results while your skills are sharp?

It would be nice if Paul updated his save editor with proper support for PS2 saves.

Paul was always very supportive of players that donated towards the project. He never complained but I get the impression that the donations were always pretty thin except of a few major sponsors. He has retired this tool and published it as open source, so if you want to make changes then start learning java.

Edited January 27, 2015 by OrionSR

[LeonTheKiller]

Well, you are right Orion, the save editor 3.1.2 can fix PS2 saves properly. Man, the solution to my problem was siting right there on my PC the entire time and i didn't know it. I loaded the save, applied the fix and tested it. Everything was working properly. Cargen, pick-ups, police trigger zones, cranes, impounds, traffic, two player mode, etc, all working .Cj could eat and puke all day if i wanted, lol. Hmvartak online repair tool was unable to load the PS2 save. So yeah, the definitive answer is yes, Paul's save editor can fix PS2 saves, you just need the right version.

 

so if you want to make changes then start learning java.

Maybe one day, who knows.

 

Anyway, in others news, i finally learned how to edit the cargen block. I've successfully replaced the Savanna in the Wang cars showroom with a Jester. Man, this save editing stuff is fun.

[OrionSR]

There are three cargens in the parking lot of the Jefferson hotel that are always hidden - a BMX and two Greenwoods, iirc. If you use them up then you can start repurposing the locked planes at the SF airpoint, just unhide the unlocked version in the same spot. Or if you'd rather it isn't too tough to add more cargens to a save. You can copy records from your own save to edit or even borrow the cargens from the CG4PS2 saves if you want. You'll need to trim some slack out of the end of the file to fix the size, determine unused index numbers (SASE) and adjust the cargen count accordingly. This is a tricky edit, but after your traffic fix struggles it'll probably be a walk in the park.

 

The main problem that PS2 players have with this sort of thing is identifying coordinates. I've got a lot of parking spots coords for the CG saves. Most of those have been reported in the Cheat Code Creation and Intro to Save Editing topics. How are you moving your saves between PS2 and PC? I can probably find a good coords tool that'll work with Codebreaker, but not AR-Max.

[hmvartak]

Though problem of OP seems to be solved, I think I must share some of my observations which were PMed to OrionSR about 6 years ago.

 

Pickup timers are static and are used to spawn or vanish pickups. e.g. When you grab a type 15 pickup like armor or bribe, their pickups timers will increment by it's respawning time(360,000ms or 6 min for armor and 300,000ms or 5 min for bribe). e.g. If you grab an armor when GT is 1,000,000 it's PT will acquire value 1,360,000. The armor will not appear till GT becomes 1,360,000. Armor or any type 15 pickup will always appear for condition PT <= GT or empty timer.

Now for everytime you save the game PT will decrement in value by 3,600,000 and finally become zero(empty).

Type 8 or type 5(Jetpack) pickups does exactly opposite. When they are created, their timers increments in value by vanish time(20,000ms for weapons, 30,000ms for cash). When GT reaches PT's value, pickups get vanished. And like type 15 pickups, on saving game PT decrements by 360,000ms.

Reason behind unexpired temp pickups or unspawnned armor, bribes is that, they have large PT value compared to new GT. Problem is not actually permanent. Their PT is reducing in value for every game saving as well as GT is approaching towards PT.

 

Don't know about other timers but I think they will behave similarly. If you can re-spawn at least one save pickup, repeated saving should turn save file to normal. Never tested this, but it should work (I think).

Edited January 28, 2015 by hmvartak

[LeonTheKiller]

Hum, i gotta try it then. I still have my experimental save( the one where i fixed the timers in block 1 manually). Let's see how it goes.

 

@Orion

SASE reports that there's a Stallion in the parking lot of the Supa save! in San fierro, but i swear i never saw that car spawn there. Thanks for the tips, i have some ideas of what i'm gonna do with those hidden CarGens. I'm certainly going to borrow a few CarGens from the CG4PS2 save, like the Andromada in Verdant Meadows, for example. Anyway, i'm using UlaunchELF to move the saves between my PS2 and PC. Btw, those codes are safe to use right? They do not replace any cars, correct?



PS: i have AR-max, Gameshark, Code breaker, etc.

Edited January 28, 2015 by _Douglas_

[OrionSR]

That Stallion is an export vehicle and is only displayed when it is on the list. Also it's usually blocked by the random steamed cargens in the parking lot. Visiting each cargen in the save is a good idea. What is actually in the save is often a lot different from what players expect as most gargens are streamed in from binary data files.

 

The numbers associated with the PS2 added cargen codes are the index of the cargen - the slot in the pool of 400 possible cargens (500 on PC). The 208 scm cargens usually start at index 18 or so and are contiguous. The empty slots are seeded as needed with streamed cargens as CJ moves about the map. The PS2 code strategy was to place new cargens at the end of the pool, so starting with index 399 and working backwards. You want to make sure you leave plenty of room for the streamed cargens but adding 100 or so seems to work just fine. When you are working with an editor you have more control over which slots to place the cargens as it is included as part of the record. Combining strategies is often most effective.

 

One important note: When standard cargens are created their index is recorded in a global variable. This value is later used to hide or display the vehicle. If you are careful you can get different reward vehicles to display by changing the index of the cargens in the save, or changing the index in the global variable. You can unhook the export vehicles from their global to prevent them from being hidden. The main point, remember the relationship between the cargen index, associated global variable, and which vehicles are hidden and displayed as the game progresses.

 

Does UlaunchELF support network transfers?

 

It is my understanding that Codebreaker can support the copy byte codes so there's a cheat code available that can copy the player coordinates to various budget stats where the floating point values are properly formatted for display. I'm pretty sure I listed the code somewhere in the cheat code creation topic when I first tested it (didn't work for AR-Max)l. I think I found the code in Edison Carter's list of codes but I don't remember seeing it in the skiller database. If you can't find it we can probably recreated it from scratch.

 

Thanks for the update on timers. I don't remember that post and learned several important details. I may need to redefine a few things in the III save documentation. It is my understanding that pickups never update unless active - CJ is near enough for it to spawn, so we definitely need to confirm your hypothesis with observations.

 

Since Paul's fix was based off of your patch; do you have any idea why he's setting local timers to reduced but non-zero values? Does it matter if the local timers are adjusted or is everyone just being thorough.

[LeonTheKiller]

 

Don't know about other timers but I think they will behave similarly. If you can re-spawn at least one save pickup, repeated saving should turn save file to normal. Never tested this, but it should work (I think).

So i've tried this and it didn't work. I went to Four dragons cassino, and only the save pickup and the SMG were spawning there. I saved the game countless times in a row, to no avail. The SMG would respawn if i took it, but the other weapons never respawned.

 

@Orion

 

Thanks for the info. Let me see if i got this stuff right, so the only ways to unhide a CarGen is either mess with the global variable or change the index slot? Sorry if i sound stupid, i'm still a newbie when it comes to save editing. Anyway, I believe UlaunchELF supports Network transfers. I've been reading the Cheat code creation topic, it's full of good stuff, i tested your RAW codes with PS2rd(homebrew cheat device) and they work flawlessly. Amazing work.

[OrionSR]

Not quite. You can manually hide and unhide cargens, but those settings might get changed by the game scripts unless you change the index in the global or move the cargen to another index. I find it easier to change the global if I don't want the game to play with my vehicles (like new rewards). I usually assign all globals for cars I want to remain displayed to the index of Denise's locked Hustler since the scripts are always hiding and unhiding her cars all the time anyway. If I do it again I'm going to put a dummy car in slot 0 and just it permanently hidden. It'll be easier to code if I just leave the globals blank.

 

This information is mostly useful for the locked planes and export vehicles. Most other vehicles actively controlled by the scripts are displayed as the game progresses, these are hidden. If you start using the locked planes early in the game you might want to change the global to prevent them from being hidden by flight school.