passive mode is basically cheating

[pizza4life]

They should put a timer on, like if youve just killed someone you should have to wait 10 seconds to enter passive.

[blk95ta]

I love next gen passive, especially combined with calling the police.

http://youtu.be/c8XQSilU8GM

Edited January 16, 2015 by blk95ta

[Misanthrope Z]

Everyone who complains about passive mode, fails to utilize passive mode and goes on here to complain.

yes

 

i love what R* did with passive mode for last gen, being invulnerable during countdown seems to have fixed all of my problems. not sure if its this way on current gen.

 

when some braindead CoD-monkey starts following me around with a scope pointed to me, i can instantly turn around, surprise him with a shotgun blast to the gut and go on about my business.

 

it's the perfect defense tool, anyone that gets killed repeatedly by someone using it offensively needs to step their game up a bit. that or stop being retarded and targeting people in passive mode.

[punishthem420]

Thousand dollar bounties stop passive mode abusers. They'll either leave to survive it in invite only, or stay passive to keep anyone from claiming it.

i guess that is a good idea , because once they exit passive mode the can't enter it again until the bounty has been claimed .

[psymin]

So many bitchy psychopaths are butthurt that someonewith a better undunderstanding of tactics and game mechanics got the better of them.... thats all this crybaby sh*t about passive mode is about.

 

Maybe some of you should seek counselling for your ultra-violent tendencies and let the grownups play the game however-the-f*ck we want.

 

Just f*cking deal with it. Put on your big boy pants, take responsibility for how you play, and stop bitching to 'daddy' (R★) to make the game more 'fair' in your eyes.

Seriously just stop.

Its sad, pathetic, and strangely reminiscent of butt-hurt bullies who were bested in combat by a 'nerd' who knows jujitsu and doesn't care to get punched in the face if he can just break your arm and walk away....

[Nutduster]

 

That is fine you find my argument lacking. I reciprocate. A Mexican standoff perhaps?

 

I don't project any motives upon you other than recognize your annoyance at a perceived abuse. I find your solution alarming and could be disruptive to the R* intent of passive mode. Making 5 minute cooldowns would be akin to putting a choke chain on players who use it with no below board tactics. For this very reason, I cannot support your revised framework.

 

I recognize people abuse it and troll with it. Just like what was done with jets before the homing missile and the tank before that. Tanks got nerfed, jets got the homing missile - what is a reasonable compromise on passive? After your dot turns red passive becomes unavailable similar to a bounty? This I may be able to support.

 

 

I'm fine with reducing that amount of time from 5 minutes to 3 or even 2. Less than that and I think the point of it is lost. And again just to emphasize, I'm strictly talking about a cooldown between the last time you kill a player and when you can go passive - not a cooldown between uses of passive in general. In general, I think almost anyone trying to go passive within a couple minutes of killing another player is using it for below board purposes, period. If your only intention is to stop fighting, you can always leave the area (go off-radar if necessary to supplement that), and then go passive later. A cooldown like I'm proposing prevents only a few specific things:

 

1. Guy goes on tank rampage, dies; goes passive and drives right back to get his tank. With a cooldown, I can try to stop him. Current model, I am powerless (mostly).

2. Guy goes on jet rampage. Same as above.

3. Guy snipes from rooftop. Gets sniped back, goes passive, and climbs right back up on another roof.

4. Guy has someone pinned down from a superior location in general (elevated, more cover, you know the drill). Someone goes off-radar to try to sneak up on him or force him to move. Instead he just goes passive and waits out the minute until they're back on-radar and he knows where they are.

 

I have seen all four of these in just the last week and a half. That's nuts to me. These are all terrible for gameplay - enabling the most unbalanced and overpowered weapons in the game, augmenting tactics that are already hard enough to counter (e.g. rooftop sniping), and completely neutering one of the most interesting and useful game features in a firefight (off-radar). I don't see any of that as good for gameplay at all.

 

Unlike you, I really dislike the idea of tying it to mental state. I've never been a big fan of the mental state system for various reasons.

 

A cooldown wont fix the problem all that will create is lobby hoping, yes the function can be abused but it's hardly non counterable with a little bit of thinking.

 

Lobby hopping isn't a problem IMO. If the person leaves the lobby rather than going passive and going for that next tank/jet/whatever, that's a satisfactory result in my book. And there's no reason the cooldown timer can't extend across lobbies, too.

 

And for the people saying to learn to fight back, it's not hard to fight. Just use passive yourself, of course. I just hate to see firefights that could be interesting and tactical turn into... that. "Hey, I'm a ghost now! I can go where I want and do what I want, and you can't stop me! And when you least expect it, I'm going to show back up with a jet or snipe you from a mile away!" It's incredibly lame, and it's being abused extensively.

[Nutduster]

So many bitchy psychopaths are butthurt that someonewith a better undunderstanding of tactics and game mechanics got the better of them.... thats all this crybaby sh*t about passive mode is about.

 

Maybe some of you should seek counselling for your ultra-violent tendencies and let the grownups play the game however-the-f*ck we want.

 

Just f*cking deal with it. Put on your big boy pants, take responsibility for how you play, and stop bitching to 'daddy' (R★) to make the game more 'fair' in your eyes.

Seriously just stop.

Its sad, pathetic, and strangely reminiscent of butt-hurt bullies who were bested in combat by a 'nerd' who knows jujitsu and doesn't care to get punched in the face if he can just break your arm and walk away....

 

This is the worst post in this thread. Would it kill you to read the actual arguments some of us are making, and think about them? This is exactly what I meant when I said that people are trying to read motives into my arguments that aren't there. If I was such a "bitchy psychopath" I'd want passive mode removed. I don't want that at all. I'm actually in favor of passive mode, generally. I used it today to sell a car and to climb on the roof of LSC to watch a war unfold around me - it was very fun.

[UKPortista]

This is anecdotal and therefore counts for very little *but* the only people I know who are seriously pissed off about the new passive mode are those who can no longer grief.

[Nutduster]

This is anecdotal and therefore counts for very little *but* the only people I know who are seriously pissed off about the new passive mode are those who can no longer grief.

 

I never grief. Never. If I kill you in free roam more than one time, it's usually because you keep trying to kill me. At least 2/3 of the time when I pass a random player I leave them alone (especially low levels), and when I do kill someone for whatever reason I almost always leave the area, giving them the option to either chase after me and continue the fight, or go about their business.

 

I don't think it matters anyway, I think the argument I'm making should stand on its own merits. But your suspicions are incorrect. I don't even like flying Lazers much anymore because they're too overpowered and it feels cheap to me.

 

The people I'm talking about, the ones abusing it, are themselves griefers. Some of GTA's worst trolls currently are not only not opposed to passive mode, they use it relentlessly.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Nutduster

[psymin]

 

 

So many bitchy psychopaths are butthurt that someonewith a better undunderstanding of tactics and game mechanics got the better of them.... thats all this crybaby sh*t about passive mode is about.

 

Maybe some of you should seek counselling for your ultra-violent tendencies and let the grownups play the game however-the-f*ck we want.

 

Just f*cking deal with it. Put on your big boy pants, take responsibility for how you play, and stop bitching to 'daddy' (R★) to make the game more 'fair' in your eyes.

Seriously just stop.

Its sad, pathetic, and strangely reminiscent of butt-hurt bullies who were bested in combat by a 'nerd' who knows jujitsu and doesn't care to get punched in the face if he can just break your arm and walk away....

This is the worst post in this thread. Would it kill you to read the actual arguments some of us are making, and think about them? This is exactly what I meant when I said that people are trying to read motives into my arguments that aren't there. If I was such a "bitchy psychopath" I'd want passive mode removed. I don't want that at all. I'm actually in favor of passive mode, generally. I used it today to sell a car and to climb on the roof of LSC to watch a war unfold around me - it was very fun.

By your post you do not sound like a bitchy psychopath. My post wasnt a direct comment on the sane people wishing adjustments, just directed at the crazies.

 

Since your not crazy, no offence intended.

[Nutduster]

 

 

So many bitchy psychopaths are butthurt that someonewith a better undunderstanding of tactics and game mechanics got the better of them.... thats all this crybaby sh*t about passive mode is about.

 

Maybe some of you should seek counselling for your ultra-violent tendencies and let the grownups play the game however-the-f*ck we want.

 

Just f*cking deal with it. Put on your big boy pants, take responsibility for how you play, and stop bitching to 'daddy' (R★) to make the game more 'fair' in your eyes.

Seriously just stop.

Its sad, pathetic, and strangely reminiscent of butt-hurt bullies who were bested in combat by a 'nerd' who knows jujitsu and doesn't care to get punched in the face if he can just break your arm and walk away....

This is the worst post in this thread. Would it kill you to read the actual arguments some of us are making, and think about them? This is exactly what I meant when I said that people are trying to read motives into my arguments that aren't there. If I was such a "bitchy psychopath" I'd want passive mode removed. I don't want that at all. I'm actually in favor of passive mode, generally. I used it today to sell a car and to climb on the roof of LSC to watch a war unfold around me - it was very fun.

By your post you do not sound like a bitchy psychopath. My post wasnt a direct comment on the sane people wishing adjustments, just directed at the crazies.

 

Since your not crazy, no offence intended.

 

 

It's all good. Thanks for being more reasonable than some.

[sleepinginlife]

Passive mode is perfect as it is on current gen. So many cry babies, this topic belongs in bitch and moan.

[zoso80]

All other points aside, in the end, any timer adjustments affect players who are not abusers of passive.

 

Metal state is the only logical option here, whether you like the system or not since prolonged passive trolling and abusers will likely be pink or red, this would be an effective countermeasure to your concerns.

 

A timer alteration changes nothing. I can promise you people will find a way around that and abuse it and we'll be right back here debating that the "timer change isn't enough." I for one don't want to continue to debate every little timer tweak for weeks when solutions ultimately have lack of fairness to them.

 

Let's cut through the never ending debate and sum it up.Red dots losing passive mode as an option until they "cool down" is the only sensible position to target the abusers you want to target without harming the majority who use passive without a fuss.

 

Your solution is unjust, mine offers a sense of fairness.

 

No?

 

 

Unlike you, I really dislike the idea of tying it to mental state. I've never been a big fan of the mental state system for various reasons.

 

Edited January 16, 2015 by zoso80

[Halal Cyborg]

I agree that red dots shouldn't be able to go passive and have stated this in a previous thread.

[gawel772]

 

All other points aside, in the end, any timer adjusts affects players who are not abusers of passive.

 

Metal state is the only logical option here. Since prolonged passive trolling and abusers will likely be pink or red, this would be an effective countermeasure to your concerns.

 

A timer alteration changes nothing. I can promise you people will find a way around that and abuse it and we'll be right back here debating that the "timer isn't enough."

 

No. Red dots lose passive mode as an option until they "cool down."

 

It is the most reasoned position here. Non trollers or abusers are unaffected while those that are, get nailed.

 

'tis fair, no?

 

 

Unlike you, I really dislike the idea of tying it to mental state. I've never been a big fan of the mental state system for various reasons.

 

 

I think cooldown time is a good solution. How can you abuse it?

 

I agree that red dots shouldn't be able to go passive and have stated this in a previous thread.

No for this. What if I'd like to go to WC? I can't because i can't go to passive mode.

Edited January 16, 2015 by gawel772

[Xyn]

If you want to play "bang bang" with the other CoD fans then play deathmatch.

I see more COD fans in FR than in any DM...COD fans hate fair play.

[Halal Cyborg]

 

 

 

All other points aside, in the end, any timer adjusts affects players who are not abusers of passive.

 

Metal state is the only logical option here. Since prolonged passive trolling and abusers will likely be pink or red, this would be an effective countermeasure to your concerns.

 

A timer alteration changes nothing. I can promise you people will find a way around that and abuse it and we'll be right back here debating that the "timer isn't enough."

 

No. Red dots lose passive mode as an option until they "cool down."

 

It is the most reasoned position here. Non trollers or abusers are unaffected while those that are, get nailed.

 

'tis fair, no?

 

 

 

Unlike you, I really dislike the idea of tying it to mental state. I've never been a big fan of the mental state system for various reasons.

 

I think cooldown time is a good solution. How can you abuse it?

 

I agree that red dots shouldn't be able to go passive and have stated this in a previous thread.

No for this. What if I'd like to go to WC? I can't because i can't go to passive mode.

turn the game off or start referring to it as a dump or piss...

[School.]

I wish there was a dislike button!

[psymin]

SNIP-. What if I'd like to go to WC? I can't because i can't go to passive mode.

Peeing is cheating.

And pooping is for pussies.

 

Real men sh*t and piss themselves WHILE KILLING ANYTHING THAT MOVES.

Edited January 16, 2015 by N0 F34R

[zoso80]

I do not grief nor troll. However, look at the way this game is played. People figure things out. I am just applying the logic of the trollers. If you want a detailed plan, I don't have it.

 

Further, if a longer "cooldown" is a good idea - do you use passive? Do you use it in R* intended manner? Those are important questions. See, I use passive and forcing me into a longer "cooldown" because you want to nail abusers isn't right. I am not your target and it is unjust to penalize players who are not your target.

 

What's your objection to red dots losing passive ability? Do you want to still use passive in PVP? I've not heard a credible argument other than 'no' or 'I don't like that.' Cmon guys, if we're gonna debate those answers don't hold water.

 

Alas, your answers the above questions are important as is your gameplay style to understanding why you seem to object to the fairest solution.

 

Edit: WC?

 

 

I think cooldown time is a good solution. How can you abuse it?

Edited January 16, 2015 by zoso80

[gawel772]

 

I do not grief nor troll. However, look at the way this game is played. People figure things out. I am just applying the logic of the trollers. If you want a detailed plan, I don't have it.

 

Further, if a longer "cooldown" is a good idea - do you use passive? Do you use it in R* intended manner? Those are important questions. See, I use passive and forcing me into a longer "cooldown" because you want to nail abusers isn't right. I am not your target and it is unjust to penalize players who are not your target.

 

What's your objection to red dots losing passive ability? Do you want to still use passive in PVP? I've not heard a credible argument other than 'no' or 'I don't like that.' Cmon guys, if we're gonna debate those answers don't hold water.

 

Alas, your answers the above questions are important as is your gameplay style to understanding why you seem to object to the fairest solution.

 

 

I think cooldown time is a good solution. How can you abuse it?

 

If you started shooting at player (not npc or police) you also shouldn't go into passive until cooldown time is over. This is not forcing anybody to not use passive mode. You want to use passive mode? Do it instantly when you join a session, but if you already shot somebody wait a few minutes. Actually if a player that you killed, revenged, the cooldown time should be 0 and you can use passive mode.

[Fonz]

Edit: WC?

"Water closet". Toilet, basically

[zoso80]

This is all good and fine, but doesn't answer any of my questions. Please answer my questions or I'll quit responding to you.

 

And last I checked no one was discussing forcing anyone not use passive. We were discussing people that would be affected. This is not about shooting anyone. This is about players who use passive in a multitude of other non-violent scenarios and would be stuck in the "cooldown" intended for the abusers. Again, I submit to you - unjust. Your solution affects those that aren't engaging in this behavior.

 

You seem to be stuck on "shooting" - why? I don't care about shooting.

 

Yes, sneaking up and getting one kill will still go under the radar on the red dot losing passive proposal. However, we were discussing abusers and trolls who are likely in it for more than one cheap kill.

 

We seem to be drifting off the debate point and I am still answeless to my questions in my prior post.

 

If you started shooting at player (not npc or police) you also shouldn't go into passive until cooldown time is over. This is not forcing anybody to not use passive mode. You want to use passive mode? Do it instantly when you join a session, but if you already shot somebody wait a few minutes. Actually if a player that you killed, revenged, the cooldown time should be 0 and you can use passive mode.

 

Lolz.

 

Thanks. If I wanted to be a cynical ass, I'd say in a dogfight there are no bathroom breaks! Which would add a sense of realness to red dots losing passive ability, heh.

 

Learned something new though!

 

 

Edit: WC?

"Water closet". Toilet, basically

 

Edited January 16, 2015 by zoso80

[gawel772]

 

This is all good and fine, but doesn't answer any of my questions. Please answer my questions or I'll quit responding to you.

 

I use passive mode only for AFK, and sometimes to buy something on the internet or shop.

[Nutduster]

 

I do not grief nor troll. However, look at the way this game is played. People figure things out. I am just applying the logic of the trollers. If you want a detailed plan, I don't have it.

 

Further, if a longer "cooldown" is a good idea - do you use passive? Do you use it in R* intended manner? Those are important questions. See, I use passive and forcing me into a longer "cooldown" because you want to nail abusers isn't right. I am not your target and it is unjust to penalize players who are not your target.

 

What's your objection to red dots losing passive ability? Do you want to still use passive in PVP? I've not heard a credible argument other than 'no' or 'I don't like that.' Cmon guys, if we're gonna debate those answers don't hold water.

 

 

I use passive. My target is only people who kill others and then want to go passive right after. If that affects you, then you are the target.

 

My objection to tying it to mental state is twofold:

1) Mental state is boosted by fighting cops and killing NPCs, which I do non-stop some days. Mental state penalizes you enough as is by painting a "please come fight with me" sign on your back (or dot). I think tying it directly to your recent behavior (killing other players) makes more sense.

2) Just because I've been fighting with people doesn't mean I never want to stop and do other things. If I fight with a bunch of people for half an hour and go "psycho," ten minutes later I still wouldn't be able to go passive. I think that's unfair.

[Quinn_flower]

I bet r* is laughing at this thread.

 

You don't think r* think of all the possible out comes people can use this in the dev stages?

 

They had a chance with the current gen and guess what they didn't change anything after they saw what people did in the "beta"

Edited January 16, 2015 by Quinn_flower

[Fox2Quick]

 

 

Thousand dollar bounties stop passive mode abusers. They'll either leave to survive it in invite only, or stay passive to keep anyone from claiming it.

i guess that is a good idea , because once they exit passive mode the can't enter it again until the bounty has been claimed .

There's actually a couple simple glitches to go passive even with a bounty.

[fish61324]

to today this player took out his tank, killing everyone in sight especially me, i'm not the one going to passive mode every, i'd rather join another session or just flee, but i decided to team up with some players and confront him. What we did was rocket launch his tank until it got destroyed, he went to passive mode afterwards and we thought the fight was over, so we left our guard down, right afterwards he went back to normal killing us all and then going back to passive mode. Now this is just one of the many problems about passive mode, i've noticed they abuse passive mode when getting crates and other. i believe that passive mode is like cheating, if you abuse its rightful purpose

This is R* trying to please everyone and not giving a crap about actual gamers...

[ThaBirdCoot]

Bring back loosing 2k for each death, make passive mode no longer free, add 20 minute cooldown, restrict use of pegasus vehicles in a single session to 2 and charge 100k for each delivery. Furthermore, encourage Rockstar to raid our homes and put a gun to people's head and force them to buy shark cards in order to access GTAO. Or...just deal with it.

[Nutduster]

I bet r* is laughing at this thread.

 

You don't think r* think of all the possible out comes people can use this in the dev stages?

 

They had a chance with the current gen and guess what they didn't change anything after they saw what people did in the "beta"

 

I think Rockstar absolutely overlooks the trolltastic ways some people will abuse certain features. In fact I know this, because most multiplayer games have such oversights, and most games are by no means as complicated as GTA Online.

 

Also, you can't really compare last gen at all. The new passive mode is entirely a different animal. Few ever complained about this on last gen because while you could still turn on passive immediately after a killing spree, you were still actually vulnerable. If you got in a car it could be blown up, and if you were out in the open you could be run over. Many a time I backed a passive griefer, having just lost his tank, into a corner or onto a rooftop and made him sit there for a few minutes. It was a petty form of revenge, but at least they were inconvenienced and sometimes killed; passive was not a perfect solution. Now it's literally just, press a button and do whatever you want til you're ready to start killing again.